[ssmit132]

(I didn't know where to put this, so I started a new topic. )

When I think about the ending of BP, these things bug me: (Note, spoilered them in case someone who hasn't played stumbles across this.)

Spoiler:

"High Command has betrayed the principles on which the GTVA were formed. All our idealogies, discipline, moral guidance mean nothing now!"

So governments that start wars can't have "idealogies, discipline, [and] moral guidance", apparently? BETAC apparently specifies that the GTVA is the only legitimate government. And how did High Command know that Earth would be friendly? Not that I'm trying to justify High Command's decision to take Sol by force, but Earth's government could have been like Inferno's EA, or be peaceful for a while and then backstab the GTVA. Also, the GTVA does not attack innocent civilians, does that mean that they can't have that as a good point, still? And I still think that, even though the GTVA was showing military aggresion, it was the Renjian that fired first, and also suicidally - what, really, was the point in taking on a vastly powerful fleet, even if it was to stand up for themselves? I would of jumped out or surrendered, since I wouldn't want to die pointlessly. But that's just me. (I know that with some people the Renjian dealt out a fair amount of damage.)

"As do I. Earth is my home now. Humankind left our blue planet all those years ago in search of utopia among the stars. Had their gaze been directed inwards, rather than out, they would have seen the potential this blue planet holds, as well as the potential inside themselves. Years of isolation and forced introspection has changed the Earthborn. Whereas before their ancestors could claim to be human only in name, only now are they worthy to claim the title. For it is only now that they have embraced their humanity: that which makes us human, binds us together."

Erm, what? The whole reason Terrans left Earth is because they wanted to expand, and because, eventually, Earth's resources would become exhausted, meaning that the value of Earth, really, is only because it is the Terran Homeworld. What potential, technically, would it then hold? Ergo, 'utopia among the stars'.

Also, the UE are, in my opinion, not 'our own people' in the GTVA's view. 60 years of seperate development would change each faction, making them different. Consider the UE and GTVA as different countries - that is how I see it. Conflict between nations, except that these nations are in space, not on Earth.

I'm not criticizing your storytelling here, Darius, most definitely not  , just something that's been nagging me.

[Snail]

If this was like BWO and you could choose which side you fought for, I'd choose the GTVA...

[Uchuujinsan]

Spoiler:

Also, the UE are, in my opinion, not 'our own people' in the GTVA's view. 60 years of seperate development would change each faction, making them different. Consider the UE and GTVA as different countries - that is how I see it. Conflict between nations, except that these nations are in space, not on Earth.

I remember the case of east/west germany in this situation, it might be quite similar, though only ~40 years of speration. Its not like Earth and the rest of the GTVA wanted to be sperated.

Spoiler:

meaning that the value of Earth, really, is only because it is the Terran Homeworld.

Well, it had most of the population and a "perfect" ecosystem for humans, propably earth alone has more inhabitants then the rest of the GTVA together.

[Darius]

Hrm. Not quite sure where you're coming from, but I'm guessing it's

Spoiler:

The fact that Sam et al switches sides at the end even though what the GTVA was doing wasn't necessarily in the wrong.

Sam's a bit pissed off that Command didn't feel the need to brief everyone on their real mission through the portal, and after having gone through so much and risked everything to save the Orestes and her ships, it turns out that they were being used for a less than noble purpose. It looks to Sam like a stab in the back, even though it probably never was to start with.

Though looking at it this way it does seem like he's throwing a temper tantrum because things didn't end out the way he wanted.

A lot of what you read in the final briefing is from Sam's point of view, having just met the people with whom he plans to stay with. After attaining a sort of understanding of how the universe works, he's going to get excited when he meets a society that's progressed in a similar manner. By the way, it's more the case that Earth's society's moved away from an unsustainable expansionist doctrine (which my take on the GTA was) and into a more inward-looking culture.

Hope that helps.

[Molybdenum]

I like the way BP is told. The main character is actually a human being with emotions and realistic reactions. As opposed to the mute conformist robot of most other campaigns. Hell, I'd even say a lot of filmmakers should learn a lesson from BP. 

Being in Bei's situation I don't think anyone would take the time of reading into BETACs fine print or analyzing the EA doctrine. They would side with those that seem to be the victim. Consider also that he is emotionally shaken after the events of AoA.

[eliex]

A clear indication of Earth's attitude is from a caption in one of Darius' screenshots.

"Do the Elders know that we're plundering GTVA supplies as though we were common pirates?"

If I were them, I'd just go fire and FIRE FASTER!!   

 . . . that is, if the enemy was trying to kill us, which from Earth's point of view the GTVA are.   

[General Battuta]

Sam changes during AoA. The man he was at the beginning of the campaign would've accepted that mission. The man he is at the end wouldn't, and doesn't. The same is true of his wingmates and the rest of the expeditionary force.

As for your criticism of the UEF vs. the GTVA -- it's exactly that kind of ambiguity that has me excited for War in Heaven.

[ssmit132]

Well, it had most of the population and a "perfect" ecosystem for humans, propably earth alone has more inhabitants then the rest of the GTVA together.

*facepalms* Forgot about that point.

Hrm. Not quite sure where you're coming from, but I'm guessing it's

Spoiler:

The fact that Sam et al switches sides at the end even though what the GTVA was doing wasn't necessarily in the wrong.

Sam's a bit pissed off that Command didn't feel the need to brief everyone on their real mission through the portal, and after having gone through so much and risked everything to save the Orestes and her ships, it turns out that they were being used for a less than noble purpose. It looks to Sam like a stab in the back, even though it probably never was to start with.

Though looking at it this way it does seem like he's throwing a temper tantrum because things didn't end out the way he wanted.

A lot of what you read in the final briefing is from Sam's point of view, having just met the people with whom he plans to stay with. After attaining a sort of understanding of how the universe works, he's going to get excited when he meets a society that's progressed in a similar manner. By the way, it's more the case that Earth's society's moved away from an unsustainable expansionist doctrine (which my take on the GTA was) and into a more inward-looking culture.

Hope that helps.

That clears it up a bit. Thanks, Darius . Though I understood Sam's reason for defecting, and that he'd just been through a hell of a lot, I did think he overreacted.

Being in Bei's situation I don't think anyone would take the time of reading into BETACs fine print or analyzing the EA doctrine. They would side with those that seem to be the victim. Consider also that he is emotionally shaken after the events of AoA.

  . The other reason I felt more integrated into the story was that Sam shares my first name  . It made the Nebula mission with the 'hallucinations' a bit creepy.

[Angelus]

. The other reason I felt more integrated into the story was that Sam shares my first name  . It made the Nebula mission with the 'hallucinations' a bit creepy.

Yeah, that was really creepy. I really enjoyed playing BP, and the ending was a little surprise, but very...human.

The nebula mission is in my top ten list of the best missions from ALL FSO games/ mods.

[General Battuta]

The nebula mission? It was great, but weren't there others that were even greater?

[Angelus]

Im not saying that the other missions are not great.
The storyline  of this entire campaign is really great, and well done. 

While playing this mission, i had this "creepy" feeling, i also like missions in the nebula. That's why this mission is in the top ten list.

[terran_emperor]

The missions that really creeped me out were

*The mission where you first encounter the sanctuary's fighters

*Those two missions where you are tracking the vishnans.

My reason - they are solo missions. IMHO there is nothing creepier than being on your own in uncharted territory. The backgrounds add something to the effect. Snipes' line from "in the lion's den" summed up a lot of what i was thinking - "Where the HELL are we?


My two favourite missions though are the second to last, and that one where you are escorting your fleet through that knossos (where that ravana jumps n right behind your last ship)

[General Battuta]

That would be, respectively, 'Universal Truth' (second-to-last) and 'Forced Entry' (the Knossos mission.)

The mission names are so cool that I feel cool just typing about them.

[Titan]

what one is the neb one? i need to replay it.

[terran_emperor]

That would be, respectively, 'Universal Truth' (second-to-last) and 'Forced Entry' (the Knossos mission.)

The mission names are so cool that I feel cool just typing about them.

Thanks...I couldnt remember the names

[eliex]

what one is the neb one? i need to replay it.

"Finding Sanctuary" I believe.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Dammit, guys, you post so quickly.

I like the way BP is told. The main character is actually a human being with emotions and realistic reactions. As opposed to the mute conformist robot of most other campaigns. Hell, I'd even say a lot of filmmakers should learn a lesson from BP. 

Being in Bei's situation I don't think anyone would take the time of reading into BETACs fine print or analyzing the EA doctrine. They would side with those that seem to be the victim. Consider also that he is emotionally shaken after the events of AoA.

I agree. After flying one of the hardest and most epic FS2 campaigns ever, learning that alternate Earth was destroyed, finding the Sanctuary and the Terrans from the other dimension, meeting the Vishnans and squeezing through the gap between two ancient races before travelling across one system, I found myself identifying with Samuel, as well as his viewpoints.

The missions that really creeped me out were

*The mission where you first encounter the sanctuary's fighters

*Those two missions where you are tracking the vishnans.

My reason - they are solo missions. IMHO there is nothing creepier than being on your own in uncharted territory. The backgrounds add something to the effect. Snipes' line from "in the lion's den" summed up a lot of what i was thinking - "Where the HELL are we?


My two favourite missions though are the second to last, and that one where you are escorting your fleet through that knossos (where that ravana jumps n right behind your last ship)

Creepy? Yeah, I've got a few too.

Spoiler:

1. When Samuel's Pegasus gets disabled while chasing the Vishnans and getting surrounded by Preachers.
2. When the music in "Forced Entry" changes from Razorback to The 2ND Reality and the SD Abel jumps in right behind the Temeraire.
3. The Vishnan voices and beam sounds.

[eliex]

Spoiler:

1. When Samuel's Pegasus gets disabled while chasing the Vishnans and getting surrounded by Preachers.

I actually flinched when the Preachers appeared. 

[Androgeos Exeunt]

It's easy to see why...

That mission gives me a sense of helplessness.

[-Norbert-]

Spoiler:

Sam's a bit pissed off that Command didn't feel the need to brief everyone on their real mission through the portal, and after having gone through so much and risked everything to save the Orestes and her ships, it turns out that they were being used for a less than noble purpose. It looks to Sam like a stab in the back, even though it probably never was to start with.

Though looking at it this way it does seem like he's throwing a temper tantrum because things didn't end out the way he wanted.

Spoiler:

And his father?
Admiral Bai knew strait from the get go what the mission was about and still he defected after being changed by the events of AoA.
Since he's an admiral he's very likely to know all the background details and reasons for the attack on the UEF. If he knew it to be justified, he wouldn't have defected to the UEF - resigned maybe, but not defected....
And when the highest ranking member of the expedition force changes sides, it's hardly surprising that many others will follow, including the son, who just a little earlier had a reconciliation with the father.