[Kosh]

Originally posted by TrashMan


What are the chances that a 2km long ship will be placed DIRECTLY in front?
 ust 1-2° left or right and it can shoot... it has great fire coverage...

Play the second to the last mission of Derelict. When the Demon arrives, the Vasudan corvette is more like 25 degrees or so to the left or right. Eventually that angle would increase enough for the corvette to be in trouble.

[KappaWing]

IMHO, the Ravana was designed to be deployed AFTER an enemy capship was deployed so it can let loose with it's forwards without worrying about sides or back.

The Demon was designed as a 'bait' destroyer, sent in tranquil areas to lure out enemy vessels. It can withstand an attack from (almost) any direction so it doesen't need to worry about getting into an advantageous position. Plus it has a HUGE firing arc.

The Ravana was most likely designed to engage warships that have already arrived at long-range, so it can concentrate all it's fire in one direction.

I voted for the Ravana because it looks way more imposing and sleek than a fat fugly Demon.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by kietotheworld
A destroyer is supposed to have a large amount of fighters onboard, I don't think it will sit there not deploying any of them.  There must be a lot of fighters on standby for such an attack.

That depends on the tactical situation; the FS2 destroyers are pretty much the sole source of fighter cover for the entire fleet, so you could thin out their reserve fighters using multiple attacks over a wide area.  i.e. plan attacks to reduce that reserve / waiting force.

[Kie99]

Originally posted by aldo_14


That depends on the tactical situation; the FS2 destroyers are pretty much the sole source of fighter cover for the entire fleet, so you could thin out their reserve fighters using multiple attacks over a wide area.  i.e. plan attacks to reduce that reserve / waiting force.

And then when the forces that have been spread out discover that their destroyer is getting smacked by a Ravana they will warp into the area and destroy the virtually undefended forward beams.

[Charismatic]

Originally posted by KappaWing
IMHO, the Ravana was designed to be deployed AFTER an enemy capship was deployed so it can let loose with it's forwards without worrying about sides or back.

The Demon was designed as a 'bait' destroyer, sent in tranquil areas to lure out enemy vessels. It can withstand an attack from (almost) any direction so it doesen't need to worry about getting into an advantageous position. Plus it has a HUGE firing arc.

The Ravana was most likely designed to engage warships that have already arrived at long-range, so it can concentrate all it's fire in one direction.

I voted for the Ravana because it looks way more imposing and sleek than a fat fugly Demon.

I would have to agree with him. I will admit i have never really explored those ends yet (thought about and realized them) so thank you for the help!

[KappaWing]

I would have to agree with him. I will admit i have never really explored those ends yet (thought about and realized them) so thank you for the help!

You're very welcome, Charismatic.

[pyro-manic]

kietotheworld: A GTVA destroyer will typically last only a matter of minutes against an attacking Ravana. That is not enough time to launch a decent number of fighters for defence, let alone recall them from long-range patrols, have them regroup and launch a co-ordinated attack on a couple of turrets. It's simply not going to happen.

[Kie99]

Originally posted by pyro-manic
kietotheworld: A GTVA destroyer will typically last only a matter of minutes against an attacking Ravana. That is not enough time to launch a decent number of fighters for defence, let alone recall them from long-range patrols, have them regroup and launch a co-ordinated attack on a couple of turrets. It's simply not going to happen.

You really don't need to have a co-ordinated attack.  You just say to some wings in different battles.
"Alpha Wing, jump to {location of battle}.  Blow up SD Fyrilg's left forward beam turret"
"Affirmative"  {Subspace Drives Engaged}

"Beta Wing, jump to {location of battle}.  Blow up SD Fyrilg's right forward beam turret"
"Affirmative"  {Subspace Drives Engaged}

And thats assuming there aren't any wings on patrol.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by kietotheworld


And then when the forces that have been spread out discover that their destroyer is getting smacked by a Ravana they will warp into the area and destroy the virtually undefended forward beams.

At which point the Shivan bombers, light vessels will tear the **** out of every unprotected vessel in the fleet, resulting in the GTVA loss of probably quite a few essential transport vessels, freighters, cruisers and corvettes.

[pyro-manic]

That is a co-ordinated attack. The wings in question need to be suitably armed, and they need to be in a position where they can leave their current location without causing problems (eg leaving a big hole in the fighter cover for wherever they are, or getting shot to pieces by hostiles they were fighting as they try to disengage). Secondly, they need to get into position once they arrive in the vicinity of the battle (and the journey itself takes time - subspace travel is not instantaneous). Thirdly, they may have to deal with the Ravana's own fighter cover first - a daunting task in itself. Only then can they start attacking the turrets, by which time it may well be too late.

[TrashMan]

I find it hard to belive a Ravana carries more fighters than a Demon - actually, it makes sense the other way around.

the Demon is much bulkier with a larger internal volume...

[Kie99]

A couple of wings will result in the death of numerous cruisers?  And the Destroyer would always have an escort anyway

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by kietotheworld
A couple of wings will result in the death of numerous cruisers?  And the Destroyer would always have an escort anyway

More than a couple of wings; probably about 80-100 fighters (from the Ravana and supporting Rakshasa cruisers), possibly Cains, Liliths, Molochs, etc acting in support.

And no doubt the Ravana would have its own escort and probably an additional attack force (i.e. bombers designated for tactical ops rather than escort)

[pyro-manic]

...... Who would have to engage the Shivan fighters first or get shredded by them while trying to attack the turrets...

And you need to read up on strategic conflict. Withdrawing the patrols to try and cover the destroyer will leave gaps in the perimeter. That means lots of dead convoys and supply ships, as well as hits on repair and resupply facilities and any targets of opportunity, ie warships moving behind the lines, who will probably not have constant or substantial fighter cover.

Trashman: Interesting point. The Demon is bulkier, agreed, but the Ravana's fighterbays are still quite substantial. My own theory is that the Demon is more of a C&C ship, and the Ravana is a purely offensive beast (similarly the Hecate is a C&C vessel, while the Orion is a full-blooded battleship), so the Demon may have additional equipment such as comms gear or even production facilities on board that the Ravana sacrifices in favour of having a truly huge set of guns.

[Kie99]

Originally posted by aldo_14


More than a couple of wings; probably about 80-100 fighters (from the Ravana and supporting Rakshasa cruisers), possibly Cains, Liliths, Molochs, etc acting in support.

I meant if 2 wings leave a battle that wouldn't result in the slaughter of all the other ships in the area.  I have no idea where you get your 80-100 numbers from.

And no doubt the Ravana would have its own escort and probably an additional attack force (i.e. bombers designated for
tactical ops rather than escort)

A Perseus with either 4 Trebs ora couple of banks f harpoons can easily take out a Ravanas beams.  What is so hard to understand about that.  In most situations the escort of a destroyer will have Trebuchets, since they arethe primary intercept missile and a Destroyer's escort is designed to intercept enemy bombers.

If a wing of 4 Perseus have 1 Trebuchet each the Ravana will be completely screwed and its only option will be to retreat.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by kietotheworld


A Perseus with either 4 Trebs ora couple of banks f harpoons can easily take out a Ravanas beams.  What is so hard to understand about that.  In most situations the escort of a destroyer will have Trebuchets, since they arethe primary intercept missile and a Destroyer's escort is designed to intercept enemy bombers.

If a wing of 4 Perseus have 1 Trebuchet each the Ravana will be completely screwed and its only option will be to retreat.

If the Perseus wings can a) escape shivan escort fighters (which are still faster IIRC) b) escape the Ravana AAAf c) be supplied and sortied in time  d) can get the correct firing aspect on the Ravana when exiting from the bay (i.e. the Ravana can manuever itself so that the Perseuses will need to cross its AAAf defenses) and e) the bombs/missiles can get past a Flak screen.

Offhand, the Ravana beam turrets are about 400 hitpoints.  A harpoon is 70, and a Treb 350 damage.  But the Treb takes 6 seconds to reload; a lifetime if you have a wing of Dragons on your tail.

And, of course, if your bomber intercept is busy attacking the Ravana, who's going to protect you from bombers?

[NGTM-1R]

I've tested this. Repeatedly. The Perseus wing will get through. Recall the Trebuchet has a five-klick range. Assuming that, as you say, the Ravana jumped in at short range, then it will be well within range. Turn towards the Ravana, lock, fire doubles. Wingman turns towards the Ravana, lock, fire doubles. Forward LReds down. Second pair (GTVA wings are normally four fighters so far as we can tell.) of Perseus fighters does the same for the SReds. Poof. SReds down.

Total time elapsed: not greater then ten seconds. Shivan fighter escort may or may not have actually engaged the GTVA interceptors yet, but probably not. If they have, they certainly haven't had time enough to kill them. Forward antifighter weaponry for the Ravana is nonexistant, and the Trebuchet in any case outranges any antifighter defense on any Shivan ship. Shivan bombers are just entering lock-on cycle if they were launched from the Ravana after exiting subspace, or if they arrived at the same time (which, recall, is something that generally does not happen) they're just launching their bombs, which can be intercepted before they impact.

[WMCoolmon]

Someone said the Ravana is an offensive 'bait' ship, and someone said the Demon has good all-round defense.

I agree with those people.

I hate to sound sappy and peacemakerish, but the two really seem like they're meant to work together. The Demon jumps in, and the enemy force sends its bombers towards it, while it deploys its own fighters and bombers. Once the bombers and fighters are suitably engaged - SURPRISE!! - the Ravana jumps in behind or to the side of the opposing fleet and starts firing its main beams like crazy.

Result: The Demon takes most of the pounding, but its HP edge and strong antifighter defenses are more likely to enable it to survive. The Ravana is able to get off several volleys, since most of the enemy fighters have either expended trebs on the Demon or are dead, and the enemy fleet is forced to deal with a second caship/fighter attack from behind or to the side.

Edit: So I'm voting Demon, because the bait-and-switch tactic would wrk with most Shivan vessels, except the Demon is the only vessel that could effectively be the 'bait'. Only the Sathanas/Lucifer have more HP, and they generally just beat the crap out of their opponents through sheer attrition. (ie there's not a whole lot of need for any strategy other than "beam-free-all"

[NGTM-1R]

Bait-and-switch...hmm...if I hadn't sworn off Shivans in a campaign for a year or so...

[Kie99]

Originally posted by aldo_14


If the Perseus wings can a) escape shivan escort fighters (which are still faster IIRC)
They are trained to avoid Shivan escort fighters and they will only need a couple of seconds to do this.
b) escape the Ravana AAAf
They can be 4999 Metres away from each beam, and each set their missiles to dual fire mode.[/color]
c) be supplied and sortied in time
They will be on patrol.
d) can get the correct firing aspect on the Ravana when exiting from the bay (i.e. the Ravana can manuever itself so that the Perseuses will need to cross its AAAf defenses) and e) the bombs/missiles can get past a Flak screen.
Chances are if they are on patrol they will be near different parts of the ship.  They wouldn't all be in the same place.
Offhand, the Ravana beam turrets are about 400 hitpoints.  A harpoon is 70, and a Treb 350 damage.  But the Treb takes 6 seconds to reload; a lifetime if you have a wing of Dragons on your tail.
If there are 4 Perseuses then each one can just target a main beam (Lred/Sred) and then the Ravana will be screwed.
And, of course, if your bomber intercept is busy attacking the Ravana, who's going to protect you from bombers?
ngtm1r has addressed this point.