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Hosted Projects - Standalone => Wings of Dawn => WoD Archive => Topic started by: Spoon on October 10, 2010, 09:29:18 am

Title: About mission design
Post by: Spoon on October 10, 2010, 09:29:18 am

I was wondering what type of missions you, the players, felt were the most enjoyable to play. And what kind of missions you would like to see more of in a new release. Or what kind of mission you absolutely hate and would never want to play again.

Sure, Wings of dawn easily has the most varied mission design of any freespace mod/campaign. But does varied equal fun?

Lemme hear your opinions!

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: General Battuta on October 10, 2010, 09:35:04 am

Quote from: Spoon on October 10, 2010, 09:29:18 am

Sure, Wings of dawn easily has the most varied mission design of any freespace mod/campaign

that's not true, i've played campaigns where i got to fly intercept, fly intercept near mercury, fly intercept near venus, fly intercept near earth, fly intercept near mars, fly intercept near the asteroid belt, fly intercept near jupiter saturn neptune uranus and pluto and the kuiper belt, and sometimes also fly intercept in delta serpentis, beta aquilae, ross 128, capella, the nebula, and even upside down

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: Spoon on October 10, 2010, 09:38:48 am

 :lol:

I love you tutta ~<3

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: Darius on October 10, 2010, 10:12:18 am

I had the most enjoyment from the atmospheric high-altitude mission, the one with the fleet disabled by EMP and the asteroid gauntlet :D

I found the disabled ship protection mission the least enjoyable, and would like to see less of those type of missions in all campaigns, forever.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: Dragon on October 10, 2010, 10:20:08 am

I didn't liked defense missions in general, though escorting the convoy in atmosphere was quite fun.
I like attack and bomber missions.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: Snail on October 10, 2010, 10:26:34 am

I actually... Didn't like the giant furball missions that became pretty frequent towards the end. The giant Nordera dogfight seemed especially pointless since I was killing random waves of fighters launched by random untargetable battleaxes.

I don't know if this counts as a 'type' of mission, but I didn't really like a one or two of the missions with the Prometheus frame. It felt like sitting in an armored car, shooting at protesters while getting sticks and stones thrown at you.

The mission after you rescue the Cordi queen and have to run for the node was epic. I liek'd.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: General Battuta on October 10, 2010, 10:27:30 am

Quote from: Darius on October 10, 2010, 10:12:18 am

I had the most enjoyment from the atmospheric high-altitude mission, the one with the fleet disabled by EMP and the asteroid gauntlet :D

I found the disabled ship protection mission the least enjoyable, and would like to see less of those type of missions in all campaigns, forever.

I second this list.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: Snail on October 10, 2010, 10:29:31 am

Oh yeah, the asteroid gauntlet was very cool.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: Darius on October 10, 2010, 10:38:08 am

Though thinking about it again, I wonder if the enjoyment factor was due to the novelty of those missions, and whether they'd lose their effect the second time round (In which case you'll just have to think up some new mission types all over again :P)

To be honest, I'd be happy with the same banquet of mission types in the sequel all over again...those were some pretty fun missions overall.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: -Norbert- on October 10, 2010, 11:04:20 am

I quite liked the mix.
And while I liked the atmospheric mission in terms of atmosphere (as in the feeling of the mission... not the airbubble around the planet.... stupid language using one word for two things!) I didn't like the reduced manouverbility of that particular Ray-III variant.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: Spoon on October 10, 2010, 11:24:33 am

thanks for the feedback so far :)

Quote from: Snail on October 10, 2010, 10:26:34 am

I don't know if this counts as a 'type' of mission, but I didn't really like a one or two of the missions with the Prometheus frame. It felt like sitting in an armored car, shooting at protesters while getting sticks and stones thrown at you.

Hehe
This was exactly what I was afraid of when I made and tested those missions. I was honestly suprised when people actually really liked those missions

Quote from: Darius on October 10, 2010, 10:12:18 am

I found the disabled ship protection mission the least enjoyable, and would like to see less of those type of missions in all campaigns, forever.

I agree.
I only included that mission because I needed 'a filler' (so to speak) and ran out of other ideas.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 10, 2010, 12:24:10 pm

Quote from: Dragon on October 10, 2010, 10:20:08 am

I like attack and bomber missions.

+1 for the attack pilot.

Unlike...well everyone else, I'm not really against escort work. :P

I also wasn't terribly pleased with the asteroid gauntlet. I mean, it was very pretty cinematically and all that, but it was a ***** to actually fly with a badly damaged Aestival. It only took one attempt but why I wasn't there for four or so I'm not sure.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: headdie on October 10, 2010, 12:29:25 pm

Quote from: Spoon on October 10, 2010, 11:24:33 am

thanks for the feedback so far :)

Quote from: Snail on October 10, 2010, 10:26:34 am

I don't know if this counts as a 'type' of mission, but I didn't really like a one or two of the missions with the Prometheus frame. It felt like sitting in an armored car, shooting at protesters while getting sticks and stones thrown at you.

Hehe
This was exactly what I was afraid of when I made and tested those missions. I was honestly suprised when people actually really liked those missions

POWER!!!!!!

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: Nuclear1 on October 10, 2010, 12:37:24 pm

Quote from: General Battuta on October 10, 2010, 10:27:30 am

Quote from: Darius on October 10, 2010, 10:12:18 am

I had the most enjoyment from the atmospheric high-altitude mission, the one with the fleet disabled by EMP and the asteroid gauntlet :D

I found the disabled ship protection mission the least enjoyable, and would like to see less of those type of missions in all campaigns, forever.

I second this list.

This list has been thirdededededed.

Quote from: headdie on October 10, 2010, 12:29:25 pm

Quote from: Spoon on October 10, 2010, 11:24:33 am

thanks for the feedback so far :)

Quote from: Snail on October 10, 2010, 10:26:34 am

I don't know if this counts as a 'type' of mission, but I didn't really like a one or two of the missions with the Prometheus frame. It felt like sitting in an armored car, shooting at protesters while getting sticks and stones thrown at you.

Hehe
This was exactly what I was afraid of when I made and tested those missions. I was honestly suprised when people actually really liked those missions

POWER!!!!!!

UNLIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMIIIIITTTTEEEDDDDDD PPPPPPOOOOOOWWWWWWEEERRRRRRRR

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: Droid803 on October 10, 2010, 01:40:54 pm

Who doesn't like mowing down mobs of helpless protesters throwing sticks at you?

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: SpardaSon21 on October 10, 2010, 01:49:27 pm

Well, when most protesters throw sticks, the intent is to annoy or cause minor wounds.  The protesters in WoD are throwing sticks with intent to kill, but InFi is just awesome enough to consider plasma blasts and anti-capital torpedoes as annoyances.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: plokun on October 10, 2010, 04:55:31 pm

I have to also agree that I would like to see more in atmosphere missions, as I find it interesting that it is possible to create missions with an in atmosphere setting, but almost no FS2 mod/campaign uses that capability. 

I also liked the big battles at the end, although I found protecting the bombers with the anti crystalline missile rather annoying.   

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: Dark Hunter on October 10, 2010, 07:01:55 pm

I've always enjoyed missions where I feel like a small part of a bigger conflict.

For instance, the mission just after Infi gets the bejeezus blasted out of it by a trio of Adasyas, where the fleet is surrounded and being attacked from all sides by Adasyas, Battleaxes, flights of Zy fighters, etc. The player focuses on just a couple of these threats, while others are happening in the background and being dealt with by other elements. The sheer chaos happening all around is brilliant, and I think it is a good representation of what a battle would actually be like.

I don't think these missions necessarily have to be Battles of Endor, but any mission where YOU are not automatically the epicenter of the conflict. That's kind of what I mean.

Quote from: Spoon on October 10, 2010, 11:24:33 am

Quote from: Snail on October 10, 2010, 10:26:34 am

I don't know if this counts as a 'type' of mission, but I didn't really like a one or two of the missions with the Prometheus frame. It felt like sitting in an armored car, shooting at protesters while getting sticks and stones thrown at you.

Hehe
This was exactly what I was afraid of when I made and tested those missions. I was honestly suprised when people actually really liked those missions

Are you kidding? You basically gave us the ability to be the Wing Zero! :D

Fura'ngle Mook: "It's an INFIIIIIIIII!" *kaboom*

However, I think that that kind of mission should be rare, even once-a-campaign rare. Otherwise, it runs the risk of no longer being novel, and becomes boring. I think Wings of Dawn struck a good balance of it: the first two Infi missions were almost impossible to lose, and allowed us to have fun steamrolling the enemy. The last two, however, were up against things that could actually kill you if you weren't careful (the Armageddon in particular was still immensely dangerous, super-fighter or no), thus, they were challenging enough that you didn't feel invincible.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: Spoon on October 10, 2010, 08:03:15 pm

Quote from: plokun on October 10, 2010, 04:55:31 pm

I have to also agree that I would like to see more in atmosphere missions, as I find it interesting that it is possible to create missions with an in atmosphere setting, but almost no FS2 mod/campaign uses that capability. 

I also liked the big battles at the end, although I found protecting the bombers with the anti crystalline missile rather annoying.   

Welcome to HLP :)
The problem with missions set in the atmosphere is mostly with the engine not having working gravity and that kinda stuff. Skybox aside, there isn't that much gameplay difference. It's mostly there for creating an atmosphere! (I'm with -Norbert- on this one, stupid language :p)

Quote from: Dark Hunter

I think Wings of Dawn struck a good balance of it: the first two Infi missions were almost impossible to lose, and allowed us to have fun steamrolling the enemy. The last two, however, were up against things that could actually kill you if you weren't careful (the Armageddon in particular was still immensely dangerous, super-fighter or no), thus, they were challenging enough that you didn't feel invincible.

Reading this pleases me (Well, this whole thread pleases me  ;) )

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: Jellyfish on October 10, 2010, 08:13:40 pm

The Hertak Flagship trench run mission and the escort missions (particularly the escort the Zy wing one) were... 'frustrating' is too harsh a word, more like 'annoying'. Not that they weren't good, they were simply not as awesome as the other mssions.

Of the others, I specially liked the asteroid run and the Nordera furball. The atmospheric mission was so good one could forget it was an escort mission.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: ssmit132 on October 10, 2010, 09:48:48 pm

Quote from: plokun on October 10, 2010, 04:55:31 pm

I also liked the big battles at the end, although I found protecting the bombers with the anti crystalline missile rather annoying.   

This. Especially after a huge gauntlet where I got shot down half the time. But I attribute that more to not being a great pilot (I play on medium) rather than bad mission design. I don't particularly remember failing Stage 1 (I think - the one with all of the Nordera)

I didn't really like the mission where you test the Ray variants because I just kept getting shot down by the swarms of Nordera fighters (Stage 1 was all right since you had wingmen). But again I think it's because I need to become a better pilot :P

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: Rodo on October 10, 2010, 10:51:58 pm

The asteroid run mission was EPIC, I really loved it... to escape from death like that, sneaking between a tight rock field, just awesome.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: -Norbert- on October 11, 2010, 03:29:52 am

Missions in atmosphere certainly have the advantage of definate ups and downs.
I once saw a video for a FS2 mod that had an artificial horizon (not sure that's the correct english word for it - the round, compass-like things in real planes that shows you your angles compared to the surface) in the HUD, though I'm afraid I don't remember it's name - it wasn't released, just a tech-video really.
Having that would make the mission even more awsome.... that is if it's even possible to activate/deactive HUD elements on a misison-by-mission basis.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: Deadly in a Shadow on October 11, 2010, 07:05:45 am

All in all, i loved the mission design...except the mission where you have to fly into big ships, damn collisions.

But more "orbital missions or planet atmosphere missions", that would be nice

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: Dragon on October 11, 2010, 12:33:55 pm

Quote from: -Norbert- on October 11, 2010, 03:29:52 am

Missions in atmosphere certainly have the advantage of definate ups and downs.
I once saw a video for a FS2 mod that had an artificial horizon (not sure that's the correct english word for it - the round, compass-like things in real planes that shows you your angles compared to the surface) in the HUD, though I'm afraid I don't remember it's name - it wasn't released, just a tech-video really.
Having that would make the mission even more awsome.... that is if it's even possible to activate/deactive HUD elements on a misison-by-mission basis.

This device was scripted by Nuke and is available via his script thread.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: -Norbert- on October 11, 2010, 04:14:04 pm

Can it be activated for a single mission (or a set of missions) only? Because it would be rather stupid to have it in space missions too.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: Dragon on October 11, 2010, 04:18:21 pm

I think that it may be possible, but would require scripting knownledge.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: General Battuta on October 11, 2010, 05:08:26 pm

I don't think so, I think it can be done just in FRED...could be wrong though.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: Droid803 on October 11, 2010, 06:36:23 pm

Yeah i think there are SEXPs to set certain HUD elements on or off, and to change the text on them too.
Of course, since the whole thing thing is a script, its kinda hard to do with "just FRED".  :p

But certainly, you can control the HUD gauge's appearance in FRED (the script will probably keep running in the background though).
That is, unless the script draws on the screen directly, in which case you can't control it so easily in FRED unless it was designed that way.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: General Battuta on October 11, 2010, 09:29:09 pm

Quote from: Droid803 on October 11, 2010, 06:36:23 pm

Yeah i think there are SEXPs to set certain HUD elements on or off, and to change the text on them too.
Of course, since the whole thing thing is a script, its kinda hard to do with "just FRED".  :p

But certainly, you can control the HUD gauge's appearance in FRED (the script will probably keep running in the background though).
That is, unless the script draws on the screen directly, in which case you can't control it so easily in FRED unless it was designed that way.

Actually you can turn scripts on and off in FRED, it's how **** like the title card in WiH's final mission was pulled off.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: Spoon on October 12, 2010, 04:38:42 pm

Thanks for the feedback everyone!  :)

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: oohhboy on November 04, 2010, 03:25:18 am

I am a bit late to the party since I just finished the campaign recently as I had to wait for a fix to the divide by zero issue, if nothing else, Wings has a lot of imagination.

The atmospheric 2 parter was something special, the change in handling, the bright sky, the dive through opposing fleets. I think only one thing could top that and it's a common enough anime trope(Mostly Gundam as I have seen so far). A battle during re-entry.

The furball mission near the end was cool too. Every other furball mission has you fighting inside two opposing fleets, but for most part the cap ships were there as props unless you got too close, then life becomes difficult. So instead of scripting, you die if you engage the capital ships, you made it so that they weren't your mission and their presence made a visible line you shouldn't cross through the use of cannon fire.

The Prometheus frame missions were alright, but in this case WiH has you beat with their frigate mission. I know they aren't the same, one being a ultra heavy fighter and one a capital ship, but it felt like you were trying to do the same thing. Lots of firepower and you get to use it personally.

One thing I would like to see more of are assault missions, it felt a lot of the time you had to be on the defensive. A lot of reacting instead of counter-acting.

I also wouldn't mind seeing some way to re-arm since a lot of the ballistic primaries use doesn't have enough ammo like the railgun with it's 510(?) shots spread over multiple guns giving you an effective shot count less than a 100 on a 6 gun craft.

An awe inspring TC and I hope to see a VAed version in the future.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: -Norbert- on November 04, 2010, 04:27:41 am

In some missions you can rearm (and repair - though not fully if I remember correctly) by flying into the Guardian Angels hanger (the left one when you are sitting directly in front and looking at the GA).

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: oohhboy on November 04, 2010, 05:38:27 am

I noticed that only in one mission where you have to hold the line inside the anti-jump field. The problem is that your not really told and that when you are told, without VAs, your too busy to read the text. Also it isn't available at all times when you had the GA. It's also very finicky.

A way to fix it would be to have a the rearm command as before, but it is basically a landing request. You use it, you fly in and the an auto tractor "docks" you to the ship like a normal rearm ship. With some mods, I suppose it could be adopted to AI fighters so they too can rearm.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: General Battuta on November 04, 2010, 08:09:30 am

Let's drop the WiH vs. WoD comparisons. They're both great campaigns and Spoon and I work together too closely to be competing.

SPOON LET'S BROFIST

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: Spoon on November 04, 2010, 10:16:35 am

(http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/3344/internetbrofist.jpg)

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: General Battuta on November 04, 2010, 10:20:41 am

mebbe gonna beg you for some weapon effects  :nervous:

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: Rodo on November 04, 2010, 11:45:49 am

BIG BOOM MISSILE FTW!

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: Flak on November 19, 2010, 02:35:46 am

The only thing I miss both here and in WiH I think is some large capship bombing missions.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: -Norbert- on November 19, 2010, 03:53:10 am

Spoiler:

There is that mission were you use the Prometheus frame to de-tooth an Armageddon and another one (the one were you can fly the hazel) were you should concentrate on the enemy cap-ships too.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: AndrewofDoom on November 19, 2010, 08:50:08 am

Spoiler:

Not that I like to fly the Hazel anyway. It's feels worse than an Ursa in flying it. =|

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 19, 2010, 10:06:38 am

Nobody does assault anymore. :(

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: General Battuta on November 19, 2010, 10:08:50 am

Quote from: NGTM-1R on November 19, 2010, 10:06:38 am

Nobody does assault anymore. :(

Definitely untrue.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 19, 2010, 10:17:57 am

Quote from: General Battuta on November 19, 2010, 10:08:50 am

Definitely untrue.

Fine, nobody does it well. I haven't had an omg fun assault mission since Tides of Darkness let me play with the Yali.

(Using Infi is more capship command than assault, alas, though equally as fun.)

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: General Battuta on November 19, 2010, 10:25:10 am

'You haven't played' is not the same as 'nobody does'.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 19, 2010, 05:57:31 pm

Quote from: General Battuta on November 19, 2010, 10:25:10 am

'You haven't played' is not the same as 'nobody does'.

Unless it's in Ridiculous, which I have yet to transfer all the old files to the new computer, that'd be a lie.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: General Battuta on November 19, 2010, 06:28:31 pm

Quote from: NGTM-1R on November 19, 2010, 05:57:31 pm

Quote from: General Battuta on November 19, 2010, 10:25:10 am

'You haven't played' is not the same as 'nobody does'.

Unless it's in Ridiculous, which I have yet to transfer all the old files to the new computer, that'd be a lie.

'Does' is present tense and both SAFSO and WoD definitely have them.

Title: Re: About mission design
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 20, 2010, 07:46:46 am

Quote from: General Battuta on November 19, 2010, 06:28:31 pm

'Does' is present tense and both SAFSO and WoD definitely have them.

And until they release, it's all meaningless to genpop. Plus the opportunity exists to screw up still. :P