Author Topic: BP: War in Heaven discussion  (Read 712493 times)

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Offline Axem

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
It's a coincidence too! I only joined after I had finished FREDding Vassago's Dirge and then I saw it and smirked. Great minds think a like, don't you think? ;)

Say didn't Transcend do it fir-

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
On the topic of Vassago's Dirge, I noticed
Spoiler:
a creepy red nebula pshyco mission here and there both. Was this intentional, coincidental, or a side effect of having Axem on the team? Also, about the short-range subspace jump: same question.

It's an homage to Transcend, actually.

 

Offline Commander Zane

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Besides, WiH's is more mindrape than the other two combined. :shaking:

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Besides, WiH's is more mindrape than the other two combined. :shaking:

What? You serious?
I don't know about you but I think Transcend's far creepier than WiH, if only for the atmosphere (being alone with no real allies with a voice pleading for help, as opposed to the voice telling you to help the side you're on win).

Hey, Transcend's basically a psychological horror story, while BP (and by extension WiH) is more "a bit of everything that's awesome" flavoured.

Also, red nebulas with black background are the creepiest and most atmospheric. :P
(´・ω・`)
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I certainly think the Transcend one was scarier.

 

Offline Shivan Hunter

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Depends on how you look at it, I guess. Usually, "horror stories" don't really do much for me- Transcend was creepy, but it's a horror campaign, so I guess I was "expecting it", if that makes any sense. WiH though- it's not a horror story. It's actually more like distilled awesome but that's beside the point. I'm hooked up to some psych evaluator talking to what passes for a therapist for around here. There's a weird value called "NGRI" which I think, from the literature, is "being contacted mindscrewed by Vishnans".

Then the psych dude starts talking about destiny and destruction and that I'll have to destroy the GTVA, and at first I'm all "WTF", because this is the last thing I'm expecting to happen. Then those insane flashes start, like I'm being communicated with at barely above the liminal threshold. Then I find myself in a blood-red nebula, talking to this "Ken" dude who I realize is not a Vishnan.

I'm talking to a goddamn SHIVAN.

This is the species that destroyed Vasuda Prime and would have glassed Earth. The species that, given the chance, would probably wipe out every living thing in our universe. Talking to the Vishnans is creepy enough, but I'm being mind-screwed by THE SPECIES THAT WOULD DESTROY EVERYTHING I KNOW IN AN INSTANT.

The Transcendant is creepy enough. He's powerful, insane and out of control. The mind-screw potential is all there as well. But he at least wants to be stopped. The Shivans have no such inhibitions.

Then I get to the cargo containers. They're apparently the communication between the Shivan and myself, so there's a good chance I'll go insane just by reading them. Or something. (Which does sort of happen btw). So I sit there, reading insanely disjointed poetry while being watched by a Shivan... device thing which could rip my fighter apart. I'm pretty sure a frakking Sesame Street episode would be mindscrew if delivered in that format. It's like I'm in the company of the whole Sathanas fleet that destroyed Capella, and they're WATCHING ME.

 :shaking:

 

Offline Snail

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
The Transcendant saw into the deepness of the universe. :nervous:

 

Offline Jellyfish

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Perhaps the Transcendant is the 'pilot' of the Preserver, or the Dante's.
"A weapon is only as powerful as its wielder. With this weapon, you'll be but an annoyance, which would greatly dishonor it. With this weapon, I can change history. With me, this weapon can shape the universe."

 

Offline -Norbert-

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
To be fair when Transcend came out there weren't all the technical goodies in. For example that big eye that flashed over the screen helps making that mission much creepier.

Spoiler:
Oh I didn't mention it before, but I loved it when the computer detected Laporte being agitated and asked wether the user wanted to see kitten pictures to calm down :lol:

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Just finished the War in Heaven.

Spoiler:

Top-notch effort. Excellent FREDing, quality models and visuals, incredibly well-done cutscenes, brilliant music selection. From a technical standpoint, pure brilliance.

BUT (there's always a but, isn't it)...the story is killing it for me. The political background, the admirals and their maneuvers and plotting, the mission design - all are excellent. It's the background that seems to have a mix of all the things I hate.
Chosen One syndrome, prophetic visions, vishnians (they call themselves vishnias? Seriously, shivans is a codname given to the race..and the vishinan "name" magically matches?) and the Brahmas of old and all that business between them and the shivies. As ideas and concepts, I hate them in their very core with the blazing intensity of a million supernovas.

And the vibe I got...like some religious-political propaganda pamphlet. Seriously, I felt like the campaign was advertising this Unbutu and Buddhism or whatever.

It just looked like the psychological and religious mumbo-jumbo were added to create some false sense of depth. I found it boring frankly. If I wanted to read a novel, I would, so all those story part about what Naomi is doing or thinking - superfluous and not working well in the medium - at least not in the way it was presented.

Final verdict: 7/10
IF you don't have a problem with the above mentioned story elements - 9/10.

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Offline Snail

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
You must have hated AoA then. Most of those things mentioned took a backseat to the war.

 

Offline The E

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Just finished the War in Heaven.

Spoiler:
Seriously, shivans is a codname given to the race..and the vishinan "name" magically matches?)

Spoiler:
Had you read the techroom, it would have become clear that the whole Vishnan/Brahman naming scheme was something the Vishnans did for Sam Bei's benefit.
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Offline Klaustrophobia

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
you didn't even have to read the techroom for that if you played AoA.
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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I have read some of this thread and have a few questions about what is being talked about

Spoiler:
1. I heard someone say that Noemi is hearing Shivans, not Vishnans. What evidence of this exists?

2. Who are Xinny and Zero? Are they those guys who disabled me in three seconds in that one mission?

A final note: Its hard for me to feel guilty for Noemi when she says she hates liking combat and then goes off and does it some more. Doesn't make sense.
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Offline Snail

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Spoiler:
1. I heard someone say that Noemi is hearing Shivans, not Vishnans. What evidence of this exists?

2. Who are Xinny and Zero? Are they those guys who disabled me in three seconds in that one mission?
Spoiler:
1. I think it fits in with the WiH is AoA inverted dynamic. Also it'd just be super mega awesome.

2. Xinny and Zero are the pilots that flew with you in "Into the Lion's Den" from the FS2 main campaign (along with Snipes). They return as the uber elite pilots in bp2-07 "My Brother, My Enemy" that fly Erinyes.

 

Offline -Norbert-

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Quote
A final note: Its hard for me to feel guilty for Noemi when she says she hates liking combat and then goes off and does it some more. Doesn't make sense.
Spoiler:
It does. Just look at the dialogue in the very first mission. Somethign like "... I can't just sit around while those Jovians risk their lives for us ..."
So while she hates fighting and what it does to her, she's willing to pay that price to save the lives of innocents and comrades.
But that's nothing to feel guilty about. Maybe sad or sympathetic or pity, but not guilty.

 

Offline Commander Zane

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I should've been specific to the letter when I was talking about the Ken mission only. :blah:
Sure, disappearing Freighters / Transports and fighters is freaky ****, but with Ken, the flashes of imagery made it clear that the pilot, Laporte; (You) is being royally ****ed with in the head.
Maybe it didn't have the auditoral dialogue hidden in the middle of a staticy mess like on Transcend, i.e: "Help me...HELP ME! PLEASE."

 

Offline Shivan Hunter

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Spoiler:
Flashing images is usually creepy enough, but the context in which they're presented makes it clear that Noemi is being mindscrewed at right above the liminal threshold. So it's anyone's guess as to what's going on below the liminal threshold. The fact that Noemi becomes a killing machine just reinforces that point: the Shivans have been manipulating her to force her to want to destroy the GTVA. She hates what she's become, because on a conscious level, she's still that child of Ubuntu- but that combat high makes a perfect breeding ground for Shivan "KILL KILL KILL" ideals.

And these are definitely Shivans she's talking to. I mean, "one side must be destroyed"? Does that sound like a Vishnan to anyone?

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Destroying to preserve, on the other hand...
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Just finished the War in Heaven.

Spoiler:

BUT (there's always a but, isn't it)...the story is killing it for me. The political background, the admirals and their maneuvers and plotting, the mission design - all are excellent.
Thank you!

Quote
It's the background that seems to have a mix of all the things I hate.

Actually, we thought about you during design, and there are some nods in m04 specifically designed to assuage your concerns.

Quote
Chosen One syndrome, prophetic visions, vishnians (they call themselves vishnias? Seriously, shivans is a codname given to the race..and the vishinan "name" magically matches?)

Sam Bei named the Vishnans; it was his call. The Vishnans plucked it from his brain.

Quote
and the Brahmas of old and all that business between them and the shivies.

Same there.

Quote
As ideas and concepts, I hate them in their very core with the blazing intensity of a million supernovas.

Really? If I'm not mistaken you're a big fan of Sword of the Stars, which includes ancient creator races (the Suul'Ka), psionics, and other fairly similar elements.

Quote
And the vibe I got...like some religious-political propaganda pamphlet. Seriously, I felt like the campaign was advertising this Unbutu and Buddhism or whatever.

Hrm. Why?

All that said I'm glad you enjoyed it.

A final note: Its hard for me to feel guilty for Noemi when she says she hates liking combat and then goes off and does it some more. Doesn't make sense.

Many drug addicts hate their addiction, but nonetheless: they're addicts.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 04:34:51 pm by Jeff Vader »