Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => FreeSpace Conversion => Topic started by: SerialMascot on October 07, 2022, 10:09:59 pm
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IMPORTANT PLEASE READ UNTIL #END IMPORTANT
$TRACKIR
+file name: scptrackir64.dll
There are many other ways to get access to the magical player camera controlling scptrackir.dll besides TrackIR. I do not use TrackIR. TrackIR works fine, but is totally unnecessary and way overpriced. And the retail software is bad and assumes you are stupid.
https://github.com/opentrack/opentrack
I do not use OPenTrack rn, but it is amazing and I have used a few of it's inputs and outputs for FreeSpace and other games in various weird ways.
If you do not use head tracking:
...and absolutely refuse to get it/try it, you will have no way to see past/around the cockpit geometry. That may or may not be ok with you. It will also be much harder to keep track of your vector (direction). "Keyboard lean" might be available soon to mitigate this. But seriously dude you're missing out just get it. It's cheap. It's free if you are good at computers. There is a "generic cockpit" that will be much more playable. Modify the fs1cp-shp.tbm file accordingly. Just copy the entries for the Ursa or Angel (using TerranCP.pof). You'll also need to change the $ships flags in the -hdg.tbm gauges files. Follow the Ursa example. Sorry, but if I provide backwards compatibility, then fewer people will try it in it's proper form. Half of you nerds have legit retail TrackIR already, and are too lazy to set it up/plug it in/charge the batteries/install the software/whatever. FFS people :lol: Using the old generic cockpit might solve the visibility problem, but not the orientation and situational awareness problem. (where am I coming/going and how fast?) so use mouselook/POV hat/thumbstick maybe, but "your mileage may vary". Please check out OpenTrack. There are some legit ways to get very good frames in sim games. Smartphones are good now, and other weird projects.
$DIFFICULTY /Multiplayer Respawns
If you don't die in Eve of Destruction turn it up to hard or insane. I recommend zero respawns and restarting the mission on any player death. Work together.
+I may add this note to the briefing on the added player notes screen.
$BUILDS
Nightly builds are required. This mod is bleeding edge, but it's stable (shouldn't crash)
$CONTROLS
If you try and play for more than 60 seconds:
please bind all of the controls and try them out. This includes:
toggle glide, press glide, lateral and reverse thrust ctrl,space,a,s,d, an analog throttle, and k,l,o for zoom
if you want other keys and don't know how see below. controls are hard I'll get there
$PACKAGES
The modular format was just awful to prepare and maintain, so that's gone. The only optional packages now are the two zooms and there's no optional mod dependencies anymore. Knossos just really wasn't designed to do that, even if it's technically possible.
$LIGHTING
Deferred cockpit lighting is now available. Please turn it on in FSO settings and also leave the other "deferred" checkbox checked. Adjust lighting features according to preference in the F3 lab. This is like pressing F2 for options but in the mainhall only I think(?) The older specular and ambient settings might look ok idk.
$FOV & zoom:
I'd advise against this, for reasons, but If you change FOV, then you must change the corresponding value in the zoom script, which should be easy. (NormalFOV) The script is simple.
$CAMPAIGN/MISSIONS:
The missions all in this format:
S_FS_1_*.fs2
gl;hf with anything else. It's there for modders.
Launch from multi for Act 1 and Act 2 Great War missions.
#END IMPORTANT
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoAUTDCfJ5kELc5QGfT-6Wt4Bl2eckzMw
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoAUTDCfJ5kFtm8Wu1b9wGVtQi-1u_Eru
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoAUTDCfJ5kExnmhBVqycqNmxgL44-2Ha
https://fsnebula.org/mod/S_FS1
https://fsnebula.org/mod/S_ST_R
https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=98469
This is a Work In Progress.
Also it's my first attempt at... well lots of stuff.
Caveat Emptor. Management is not responsible for any and all unhapiness.
Use this thread or come to the Discord for updates, or to help me figure out how to do the rest. Testers/collaborators/requests/bug reports all warmly welcomed. Feedback on the flight and physics balance is most needed.
Now included:
NEW: Time Attack Gauntlet - Try to get Primary, Secondary, and Bonus objectives in under 10 minutes. GTF Valkyrie is the obvious choice for speed, but it's poor shields and armour + small secondary capacity make it a challenge. Any ship can beat it though and the multi warhead secondaries make quick work of the Shivan hunters.
Re-Scaled "Great War" Act 1 missions
(see the post below)
I'll be adding my tips to the briefings (eventually), so check there.
Looks for the filenames beginning with "S_FS1".
Silent Threat: Reborn
Internally Rendered Cockpits
with new tactical gauges, no Virtual HUD, RTT messages etc.
(These are basically done for now)
GTF Apollo
GTF Ulysses
GTF Loki
GTB Medusa
GTF Valkyrie
GTF Hercules
GTB Athena
GTB Zeus
still using the generic cockpit
GTB Ursa
Modern Thruster Inputs + Glide for all GTFs and GTBs
Realistic Momentum (and advanced control) for ALL small craft
Newtonian Velocity Vector for all ships and weapons
Basic Zoom Script - Just the L Button
Advanced Zoom Script - L = in 10%, K = out 10%, O = reset to 0%
3D Velocity Vector Script
Major hurdles:
Vasudan cockpits - plz halp :confused:
Coming Soon:
FreeSpace Multiplayer for Dummies YouTube Spectacular
also boring head tracking tutorial videos upon request
Hacky support for some VR headsets :eek2: ETA early 2023
B i t c h i n Betty with mission-event based messages (not just ship status warnings - kind of like in the old Mechwarrior titles)
Synthwave
event based music tracks.
FS2
Derelict
Hercules MkII
Myrmidon
Artemis
ArtemisDH
Warmachine
Act 2-3 of FS1
Thruster sounds:
These are hooked to keypresses for the time being. This will be done differently in the future, but I haven't decided which way. For now, replace a,s,d,ctrl,space with your controls in thrust_snd-sct.tbm
Multi:
Something still breaks "observer mode" in multiplayer, probably the zoom or the vector indicator. Don't click "observer mode" when it comes up, and everything will be fine.
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I've reorganized everything in a modular kind of way after doing it differently and after lots of feedback. The above post was updated too. I'll put some notes for modders here soon...
but the short explanation is that the 3 "utility" mods are meant to be easily used as resources outside of my "modpacks".
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Nice work. :yes:
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UPDATE: The packages were all wrong before and everything was required. Sorry about that it should be fixed now thanks to some unintentional testers.
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GTF Loki now available.
Serial's FS1 Cockpits 1.2.0
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Changed the radar in "Serial's FS1 cockpits" HUD. Looks more clear and takes up more of that spot.
Some minor cockpit offset changes, probably bringing the eyepoint a touch further down in 2 or 3 ships. Might be a matter of preference. I wrote instructions on how to easily find the value you want and change it. It's in Discord, but will repost if someone needs.
Streamlined packaging (again) for FS1 and STR packs.
Will Probably make a good change to the ai/flying stuff, that I've tested. It's so much fun to play and hopefully the new version will be not too hard / not too strange.
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there's a 2 player copy of Warship Gauntlet for practice w/ a friend against a dangerous but slow target
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https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=98469
Eliminating Virtual HUD gauges...
The new set is practical for Z-axis lean. You kind of have the shields and target monitor still in your face if you are leaning forwards, but they're positioned to still be nicely angled/viewable from the default position. These might be a little different on each ship.
Also: back by popular demand.... (read: torches and pitchforks) the radar in bottom center position!!!
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https://youtu.be/rbH-8DAWwu4
attempt #2 for the apollo will be in an update today
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That looks great :yes:
I particularly like the velocity vector and gun chase indicator (and now have a hankering for someone to remaster and rebalance the FS2 campaign for glide and strafe)
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That looks great :yes:
I particularly like the velocity vector and gun chase indicator (and now have a hankering for someone to remaster and rebalance the FS2 campaign for glide and strafe)
Yeah I'm definitely going to see about porting those over to warmachine in some form
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Concept is pretty cool, especially the new flght.
Some sort of AI change makes the game at least 3 steps harder when dogfighting Shivans even if you fly right.
That on its own is not terrible, however I would not expect a Scorpion to be able to outfly a Valkyrie with boosted engines, but it does because it now slides and is almost just as fast.
Basilisks are deadlier than in Blue Planet where they showcased their alleged full power...
Are all Shivans now boosting their shields plus engines and redirecting power much better as well? Takes quite a while longer to shoot them down. This essentially ruins the balance of some missions, and makes the difficulty slider almost worthless.
(With easy reaching difficulty of hard in retail.)
Their bombers instead are collide-suicidal even more than usual. Friendlies also love to collide into enemies and you, especially when they're flying Apollo and Athena which are wide.
While this only shows up in particular mission, when it does it's pretty bad. Certain missions are on the edge of busted even on Very Easy. Not entirely sure what causes all of it besides what I mentioned.
For gliding, it could use an arrow indicator with size of velocity vector in vertical or horizontal.
The side and reverse thrusters are very wimpy in comparison with forward one on many ships causes some problems with gliding, in particular trying to correct or prevent an accidental orbit or mis.
The travel direction indicator is cool when it is visible, but it is not when you're flying reverse - which you would do in a dogfight when gliding.
Cockpits look great and do not hinder too much even without head tracking. (Joystick or mouse freelook, padlock etc. help in any case.)
Zoom script needs to be placed in settings - kind of hard to use with joystick otherwise - but regardless it's not *that* useful when AI just gets on you within 100 units anyway when they do want a dogfight.
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Glad I’m not the only one that noticed it was quite a bit harder. I thought I was just getting rusty in my old age 😜
I had a thought of how the ‘can’t see backwards when using cockpit mods’ problem could be fixed: a Picture-in-Picture rear view feed in the cockpit, emulating what a rear-facing camera would see.
This could be even more useful than being able to look backwards since you could see what is going on behind while still looking forwards.
I don’t know if FS is capable of this of course. A potential problem might be performance impact - I have noticed in some FPS games with PiP scopes that the frame rate drops by about 50% when using the scope. If this were to become a problem, then perhaps make this a toggalable feature in-mission via a key press, so you only have it displayed when you need it (I imagine most players would be ok with their FPS dropping from 60 to 30 if it was only for a few seconds at a time and they could control when this was.)
Either way, keep up the good work 👍
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Nomad:
If the "problem" is not having full yaw in head tracking, the "solution" is just changing that in the FSO engine. I can't promise it would work, or will happen soon, but I know where it fits in the code.
I do have a workaround solution for you though, albeit a clunky one:
If I understand what you said before, you can currently use your pov hat on your stick to yaw more than 360 degrees. Not being able to de this with Headtracking is a deal breaker for you. I think you'd change your mind and forget about the full twisting if you understood the point of having both rotation AND translation with 6-dof.
Once you have your TrackIr 's battery problem solved you'll see this. Or you could watch some of the videos.
BUT! If you absolutely positively must have 360 degrees of yaw with your trackIR device. I can talk you through 3 different apps that can turn the trackIR output into joystick input. But first I will force you to listen to me rant about how the limited yaw is a design choice within FSO, and how I know this.
I'm coming up with solutions for a problem that doesn't need to be solved really. The game was designed with a certain "viewing angle" in mind for the camera/the ships. Right now if you look all the way back in the cockpits you'll just be looking at/ clipping into the seat / the hull. It will still be useful in the generic cockpit though. Or with no cockpit rendered. (toggle button coming soon)
Just try it with 6-dof. Please.
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Regarding Difficulty
There was one update that was much closer to BtA difficulty, which was indeed way to hard, and I also got my ass kicked. This might be what you are playing. A lot of it is about making the difficulty slider do what the player expects it to. The next update will be much more reasonable, and will have all the Shivan and Vasudan fighters/bombers with updated physics and behavior. This mean a lot of things, but in the end, its less deadly than what you have now, but with much more interesting opponents and fights. Check the top post here after you see the version change on the FS1 Flight Dependency.
I've also ported some missions to play better with the modern flying. Still unsure how they will be shared. If you are playing a classic mission, and you think you see something broken/boring/whatever, just post here. I take everybody's input pretty seriously. If you offer a clever solution , then I'm likely to fix it right away.
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Astral Storm... Is there even a value for the sidethrust? I think it's just on and off no? If it's just a momentary input, and they don't add your feature request of a side thrust axis, I don't think I'd want to add more clutter to the HuD or the gauges. What it really needs is a sound. The lack of feedback feels unnatural to us and it really breaks immersion. I bet once I put it in there, it will feel right to you. It's all about the right feedback. The engine sound is also broken in Freespace, but I'll leave that to you guys to figure out.
If they do add a sidethrust axis, and I do like your FR btw, then I would redo the entire flight model, and I'd want a prominent on screen display for that. You probably already got an idea for what I was going for if you saw the video with the on-screen controls. (your idea, and a good one)
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Oh, I have not looked into flight tables, but I believe there are thrust values for ships in all directions. The side ones in at least the few ships I tried are super weak. Holding the thrust keys takes a while to even move the ships. The thruster is on par of 5-10 units on a Valkyrie with max boosted engines?
And that is one of the stronger ones.
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yes
all the ships have sidethrust
but my point was that there is no range of values to generate a useful hud indicator
I think it's either ON or OFF, but correct me if I'm wrong
The forward thrust (combined with correctly toggling "glide") is intended to be the main way you get from A to B, with afterburner supplementing that because you can't always overclock the engine.
The side and reverse thrusters are INTENTIONALLY WEAKER. I don't know how else to to explain this. :banghead:
Making them as strong as the forward ones pretty much results in "Descent 1" flight, which is not what I'm looking for. I loved Descent and Overload, but circle strafing gets old fast in wide open spaces, and also the A.I. is way better at it and you will die too much.
The velocity vector NEVER DISAPPEARS. I PROMISE!!! You just aren't looking where it goes.
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Plus, you can always alter the speeds yourself by editing the ship table. You could have your ship fly sideways at 1000mps if you really wanted to although I suspect you might crash if you did 😂 look up Reythan’s asset release thread for details of how to DIY which is what I started doing before SM started doing this 👍
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UPDATES:
Cockpits
Reshaped the struts on the Apollo (again :wtf: ) . They are better now for both 6-dof users and legacy-mode camera controls.
Flight
I made some pretty massive changes to the flight and AI, so be sure you're using FS1 Flight 2.2.0 or greater. You should notice a bunch of differences. Your dudes and the bad guys should all be able to do the silly stuff you do. Many.... many variables are adjusted to account for this.
Difficulty
This has been tuned back and forth quite a bit. Once you get comfortable with the flight mechanics (not trivial) I want you to be able to win stuff on "normal" without too much practice/repetition. Normal should still be unforgiving if the player is making flight mistakes and going off course or exposing himself to attacks. Balance between friendly and hostile AI was also addressed.
Missions
By popular demand I have rescaled some FS1 missions. They are FREDDed to be fun either in multi or in single player. For single player, you can optionally disable PXO to skip PXO, and you can also use the "skip mainhalls" FSO setting for convenience. Look for the four co-op missions that have "S_" at the start of the file name. Full repairs are enabled for the support ship. You really can't take much punishment in the pre-shields missions so use it. AI wingmates will use it like in Blue Planet. These missions are currently balanced for zero respawns (not very immersive lol). I think if your multi friend dies, just restart the mission like you would in single player. And maybe watch each other's back on the next attempt.
Eve of Destruction
Be aware that some Vasudan craft are still damaged after being pushed back towards the Orff's sector.
Targeting the guns (you or your wing) on the transports and freighters is a good idea.
The Orff can fend for itself for at least awhile, so you can repair/rearm if you can find a safe spot, but don't let your wings die while you do it.
Field of Battle
This mission can be a moderate test of your mastery of the controls and your situational awareness. Use the DRADIS radar (should be in the latest cockpit updates) together with the on screen radar and the wing hotkey. Keep in mind that the enemy wings will now "wake up" at 2000 fsu. The challenge is to keep your force together and only fight one at a time, repairing/rearming as needed. The Vasudan ACE is a real asshole, but you don't have to kill him.
Small Deadly Space
Taking out the freighters before they escape is hard but doable, but it's probly more fun to let one get away and fight all the backup they call. Disruptors are viable. Don't forget Delta is a "reinforcement" wing you can call.
The Hammer & the Anvil
You really need to focus on quickly deleting those Shivans that target the cargo or the transports. It can be easy to get distracted and split off dogfighting one that's doing something else. I have something in mind for the end of this mission to demo a new feature. For now, don't worry about the HoL traitor craft, but stick around at the end for a small bonus fight against nimble Vasudan fighters.
Suggested "as-is" ST:R missions:
Silence All Voices
Credit to Goober. This is a very replay-able one. Try beating it with and without participating in the big dogfight, and with the different available ships.
The easiest tactic imo: Let all the AI friendlies stay busy dealing with the big fight where you get dropped off, and deal with the two transports yourself or with a multi buddy. Pilot a Hercules with Prometheus or Avengers and at least one bank of Disruptor missiles, which make dealing with the transports manageable. They are more challenging if screen shake is enabled. One solution for preventing the 2nd transport from using the communications relay is murdering the communications relay.
More Than Meets the Eye - Ghosts
Double header/Red Alert mission. recomended
He Who Rides The Tiger
Make sure you have engine energy to use afterburners or the Shivan Gremlin will kill you. I might need to tweak that. The waves come in a bit close with the new speeds, but it doesn't really matter. You will end up not having to rely as much on AI when things get spread out towards the end, but this works ok imo, maybe could use something for more danger at the end. Interested if Goober has an opinion on how things are changed and what might be scaled in FRED to keep the original intent working.
Hellfire
I have had more fun in multi playing this mission than any other. It's really hard to get all four cruisers, but remember that's not mandatory, just better in the campaign. You can take turns being the bomber, or the fighter cover, or the subsystems killer and disruptor missile boat. Having humans playing the different roles is very satisfying, but it's FREDded nicely and plays well in single player also.
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Plus, you can always alter the speeds yourself by editing the ship table. You could have your ship fly sideways at 1000mps if you really wanted to although I suspect you might crash if you did 😂 look up Reythan’s asset release thread for details of how to DIY which is what I started doing before SM started doing this 👍
Thank you for not actually going into the tables details here in the thread. I intentionally avoid discussing the flight mechanics in FSO language, or using the actual numbers. I think it takes the fun out of it, but of course anyone who wants to see can just click on the tables. I think Nintendo taught me that games are sometimes more fun without showing the stats. Before changing the tables I still suggest trying 2.2.0 and keeping in mind that strong auxiliary thrusters have a massive impact on AI behavior too, and would be very difficult to control without an axis. I do have AI "circle strafe" turned on by the way, but it's barely used. You've probably notice by now that it's not very effective when you do it too. For a strong change of course, you'll need to point your nose in the direction which corrects your travel vector how you want. If you ever learned how to add vectors together in physics class it's like that, but you'll start doing it intuitively once you realize it's effective.
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These are some very promising changes. :yes:
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some flying tips for another player
reposted from a discord chat
--The rotation times (turning) are all the same as retail besides a factor that affects all ships rotations equally. So the Athena and the Herc still have nearly identical turn times. The accelerations and top speeds are also close for those two ships.
--don't get too hung up on the speed readout - that's only fwd velocity
--there is no glide cap, so acceleration is what's more important. Top speed is only relevant when you are not gliding.
--Overclocking your engines is much more important in the mod than in retail too, try keeping engines at max and turning that down only when you need extra juice for shields and guns.
--The "Glide Acceleration Multiplier" is kind of a big deal here. You should really only be not gliding when you need to slow down or change direction. (like out-turning a missile)
--Don't worry too much about collisions, they won't do too much damage if things work as intended. It will hurt more if your shields are down.
>>>I need more practice with this "momentum" mechanic, colliding with cruisers is not healthy.<<<
☝️ This quote makes me sooooo happy. The whole point is for the flying to suddenly be something you really need to pay attention to in the game. You are supposed to suck at it, but be able to quickly get better and that part is supposed to be really fun actually.
I'm still crashing in to stuff too, but usually not if I'm more focused.
Slowing down correctly is absolutely the hardest part.
It's tricky to not overshoot stuff, but coming in behind an enemy wing can also be good. Hopefully things are set now so one or more will peel off to counter you
--Fights get more spread out now. 1v1 duels are a ***** if the enemy is more nimble, and can tie you up for too long, so just call in a wingman when that happens
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Thruster Sounds!!
The experimental thruster sounds script is now included in FS1 Flight 2.4
Future versions will be less clunky. For now you'll need to rebind the keys manually in FS2\S_FS1_Fly-2.4.0\core\data\tables\thrust_snd-sct.tbm.
I hope the sounds provide some audio feedback that will help you stay oriented in space.
lmk if something breaks. I had trouble with the loops getting stuck.
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NEW: GTB Athena "Javelin" variant. Check youtube for demo/details. Should be in the in-game tech room and it's in mission 8 + the "gauntlets". (same name but she's purple and has giant guns on top)
NEW: La Ruota della Fortuna - this is easily the most complex mission I've done so far. It's only hard (still beatable though) if you don't manage your A.I. pilots at all. Human wingmates are an even better option here. The Medusas, Valkyries, and Athenas all need to do their specific jobs.
NEW: Time Attack Gauntlet - Try to get Primary, Secondary, and Bonus objectives in under 10 minutes. GTF Valkyrie is the obvious choice for speed, but it's poor shields and armour + small secondary capacity make it a challenge. Any ship can beat it though and the multi warhead secondaries make quick work of the Shivan hunters.
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Yo,
Strygon and I got into this. My thoughts from disco posted here as a quote, along with some gameplay footage of Strygon and I bumbling around.
key things for me were:
- love cockpits, i think the idea is great. flight mechanics are cool and even though it's not where my heart lies, i can appreciate it. and you've clearly done a lot of good work revamping the missions which was nice
- hud gauges. good job getting these onto their own bespoke "displays" in the cockpit but even as a trackIR user playing in 1080p the text was a bit too small. in addition, i think HUD integrity is mission critical information and should be in a more intuitive position. looking/glancing down to check hull integrity is a bit suboptimal in the middle of a dogfight and positioning it somewhere closer to the centre of the HUD or higher in general my be better
- eyepoint. the default eyepoint imo is too low to enable the appropriate visibility to conduct a turning dogfight, as you can see in the video. not quite sure how you elevate the 'seat height' for lack of a better term in your footage but that was a big limiter for me and definitely impacted gameplay. you may be limited by the actual structure of the cockpit as well which isn't cool, but just something to think about at the very least
- need for directional thrust. you can hear strygon and myself discussing this in the video but at the moment i don't think the AI fly in a way that requires the player to employ directional thrust. i'm not an AI behaviour guru but guys like darius/strygon/ETP should be able to lend a hand here i would think
- tutorial. may be worth having some kind of tutorial mission where there's a very brief explainer of where all the important info is in the cockpit. took me a criminally long time to work out where hull integrity was, and it may be helpful also to try keep things in generally the same direction the player looks in without the cockpit mod, so that way those habits have a smoother transfer to cockpit ops
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I've posted a shorter version of my thoughts on the mod in the #multiplayer channel of the Discord, but I feel for organization's sake it's best to post a more elaborate version of my thoughts on the mod.
Do note, I've played through both Single- and Multiplayer, six missions in the former and four missions in the latter, played at Medium.
And please note, this is simply my opinion and point of view regarding this mod and how I see it as a modder with a fairly good degree of experience in most modding fields, excepting Scripting, but also as a player who has a fair few mods under his belt.
Cockpits, HUD and Visual Language
One of my main gripes with this mod before I even picked it up was the reordering of HUD elements in a way that didn't really seem all that beneficial and was more just "change-for-the-sake-of-change" material. Some of that can be attributed to simply having to adapt to a new layout, and I am willing to admit that, but some changes plainly don't make sense from a UX standpoint.
General Issues
Let's address the big issue first.
Everything's too small.
While I was playing through a mission with Dilmah, I struggled to tell whether the Hull Integrity on his fighter was 52% or 92%. Additionally, names of certain ships were barely readable.
The other cockpit mod seems to fix this by increasing the font size for HUD elements, while whole gauges seem to be shrunk here to fit the physical gauges.
Bad use of screen real estate.
The ETS gauge is put in a position where it is almost fully hidden from normal view from the player without additional use of view controls, while the Wingman indicator or the escort list get an unnecessarily large amount of screen for themselves, a good portion of which never ends up getting used.
The target view box is relegated to a tiny screen in the mid-upper left corner while the lower center-left larger screen is instead given to the Directives Window, which does not need nearly as much space, yet gets it anyway. Not only does this mess with old habits formed by FS fans, it also makes it much harder to actually assess the state of your target, which is way more critical and needs much more information output than a simple directives window.
Hull Integrity Indicator
Your Hull Integrity is probably the single most important variable to watch out for during gameplay, for very obvious reasons. As such, it is incredibly important that the player can easily look at it and not have to filter through any clutter generated by other interface elements. The base game does this by planting it firmly and immediately north of the center of the screen, far away from other HUD elements. The player can read the gauge very easily and doesn't have to filter out irrelevant information first, potentially costing valuable miliseconds in a close encounter and just generally making good use of screen real estate.
Kills, Auto-Indicators, Countermeasures
These three gauges have been moved to the center dashboard and their text replaced with icons. On paper that doesn't actually sound like a bad thing.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/519220662640836631/1045998317315829831/image.png)
However, you tell me what all of these icons mean.
The skull is fairly obvious (though I find it tonally unfitting but that's a different conversation entirely) and you could reasonably extrapolate that C * M probably stands for CounterMeasures. I was at a loss however for what these other two icons meant and only figured it out because there were no other gauges for auto-speed or targeting.
It would be preferable to just have the old default text gauges in place of that, as it will at least immediately tell the player what it's supposed to mean.
The Cockpit
Lining up with what Dilmah said about eyepoint issues, this further leads into my next point, namely that as it is, the Cockpit acts as a massive visual obstruction that seriously damages the gameplay experience, rather than a tool to further the immersion.
As it is, you can barely see over the dashboard, and in some fighters like the Apollo, you can hardly see your own shots, making it much more difficult to actually hit anything.
Note, this is not realistic even by current day fighter jet standards. In aircraft like the F-16 for example, you can quite easily view over the dashboard and get a better view of the situation, because battlefield awareness is absolutely crucial.
Technically such a concession on losing some of that awareness is already being made by having cockpits in the first place but as it is implemented in this mod, it's done in such a way that reduces said awareness far too much to make it worth the immersion.
A new flight model
An Introduction
In the Discord server a lot of talk was thrown about regarding this mod's flight model and how it requires new adaptations to missions to fit its faster pace and higher degree of action. Having played through a considerable amount of missions, I can more or less say with certainty that the gameplay hasn't really changed much from how it was before. The engagement distances remain the same, time to kill remains the same and the difficulty and tempo hasn't changed much, if at all.
What is combat pace anyway?
DISCLAIMER: Because the initial release post is incredibly unclear regarding what this mod is actually about, I'm going off of some assumptions here. If Serial wasn't gunning for a high-speed fast paced adrenaline mod, feel free to ignore this entire segment.
When talk of fast paced combat within Freespace mods is thrown around, there are a couple mods I find make for great case studies regarding differences in flight models and how that affects combat pace and completely changes how a player acts and reacts to their environment and incoming threats. Those mods being:
-Warmachine
-Solaris
-Dimensional Eclipse
and to allow myself to toot my own horn a little:
-First Contact War
Those mods incorporate speed in a way that really goes wild with pace in a way never seen before in Freespace. However, once one digs into their programming, it becomes obvious that there was far more to it than just increasing everyone's flight speed. And now having played through this mod, I'm beginning to see that a lot of work going towards a fast paced mod here is plainly missing.
One thing you'll see across all these other mods I mentioned is that in the middle of a dogfight, you must always stay on the move. Not just straight ahead flight, but constant evasive maneuvers. If you lose focus for a couple seconds, the entire battlefield will have changed too much to keep up as easily and you might find yourself shot to pieces.
This can be achieved through a variety of adjustments across the ships, weapons and AI tables. Ships can be made to react much faster, weapons can have larger ranges and faster velocities, missiles can get better tracking to counteract the greater range of evasive maneuvers possible by the higher ship speeds, the AI tables can be tuned much tighter to make enemies significantly more aggressive.
No incentive to use mobility options
The main point I'm trying to get across is that the flight model will need much more work to truly be a new style of gameplay rather than just FS1 but with higher speeds. Not once during my playthroughs did I feel any reason to use sidethrust or glide. Even the afterburner felt redundant, I could just overclock my engines and achieve higher speeds than afterburner ever could.
It also seems that enemy ships did not receive any adjustments to their table values. In Dilmah's third video you can hear me jokingly refer to the "SR-71 Strategy" by just outflying enemy fire. I did in fact just turn up my engine power and fly past the escort swarm around the Taranis and only ended up getting killed through careless flying and repeatedly ramming the Taranis.
Additional Gameplay Elements
Broken Multiplayer Experience
Serial said at some points that he playtested this in Co-Op with a couple other people but I find that difficult to believe primarily for one key reason:
When me and Dilmah played it, each time either of us died the game would completely give out and require a total restart on us thanks to some HUD-related bug that messes with observer mode and throws a massive wall of errors at us.
While it is more or less serviceable in singleplayer, I cannot in good faith call this mod playable in Multiplayer while this critical bug is in effect.
Zoom Feature
I would also like to take a moment to talk about the Zoom feature and its implementation and usefulness within the context of this mod.
While it looks and sounds nice and I was mildly impressed when I first tried it out, I quickly realized it had absolutely no use whatsoever in the mod. There is not a single weapon that has enough of a range to warrant or require the ability to zoom in.
During some discussions me and Dilmah were initially under the impression that you could also use this to zoom in on your gauges, which would have been an interesting way to deal with the issue of the text being barely readable. However, this was not the case, the cockpit remains as it is while you're zoomed in, which just looks plainly weird.
Half Life 2 Overcharged: A parallel case
I'm going off on a bit of a tangent here, but seeing this and then the list of new upcoming features (I'm not holding my breath on the VR implementation by the way and neither should anyone else) I'm suddenly reminded of this rather recent modding drama in the Half Life modding community, namely surrounding the mod called "Half Life 2 Overcharged".
HL2 Overcharged suffers a lot from the same issues I highlighted here: Numerous ideas that sound potentially interesting on their own but put together in one place and not given nearly enough work to properly mesh and synergize into a cohesive gameplay experience.
Conclusion
On this note, my key advice to Serial for going forward with this mod is to first go back and continue working on the existing elements until it all meshes together and makes for a good gameplay experience. Just like with HL2 Overcharged, there are good ideas here but they need a lot more work until it can really shine. It is also a good idea to go back and review the HUD layouts for a more user friendly gameplay experience.
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Wrt AI using side-strafing, the AI Profiles table (https://wiki.hard-light.net/index.php/Ai_profiles.tbl) has numerous settings that control the AI using glide and sidestrafing behaviour. If you want more finetuned control, you can use a lot of those values in Ai.tbl (https://wiki.hard-light.net/index.php/Ai.tbl) itself.
Take a look through the entire documentation, as there's a lot of stuff there that's interesting. Blue Planet makes extensive use of this table in various forms, as do Solaris and Diaspora (which have a more authentic-feeling flight model themselves). When adding BSG-style physics to FS2, of particular note are the following flags:
$AI Turn Time Scale:
Controls how fast the fighters turn. If you're making everything faster but not touching rotational speeds, the AI needs a bit of a leg up in order to "catch" enemy targets.
$Glide Attack Percent:
$Circle Strafe Percent:
$Glide Strafe Percent:
$Random Sidethrust Percent:
These all control how much the AI uses the side-strafing and glide features. Even vanilla AI has limited side-strafing capability as the shivan fighters use it (you may have seen the Mara make weird turns, that's them using that), but in order to unlock the full potential of the AI here, you have to use the table.
$use additive weapon velocity:
$use newtonian dampening:
These settings make physics of FSO behave a little bit more realistically. Additive weapon velocity in particular can change a lot of things, as your weapons will go faster as you go faster.
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I can't tell how far you already seperate that already, but I'd suggest you to split the development of immersive cockpits and actual gameplay changes into 2 things that can grow independent of each other. Judging from the previous feedback, it does not seem necessary to create (or just promote) both things right at the same time as two sides of the same medal when there are relatively few (or no) benefits from that, but numerous potential issues.
Also, if you're looking for immersive gameplay I'd add Diaspora to Strygons reference list which has the things like external custom guns and cockpits you're trying to implement into FS.
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I don't know where to begin
I played Diaspora and many of the features used are from Diaspora.
I have already implemented each of those flags in AI profiles.
I have warned players that visibility will be a serious problem without freelook translation, but lunar sage ignored the sticky post, and seems to be demanding some kind of "megaproject" that I'm not interested in as well as using this thread as platform to promote his own uncompleted magnum opus. Beyond that, I'll hold my tongue.
I'm just going to continue to add stuff one thing at a time, just like I have been, and try not to break the other stuff. If you want to play, play. Get TrackIR tho, until VR is ready. Input is always welcome, whether or not it's positive.
That having been said, Lots of the critiques have been really helpful and I ignore none of the input, and most of it is well though out. If i get a request from like two people for something, that's usually enough.
No idea about any multiplayer bugs. (besides observser cam) We play every weekend. It was fine yesterday idk.
It is 100% acceptable to give an uninformed opinion, but I'd encourage you guys to at least watch the "Serial Speaks" youtube playlist....
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I don't want to drag this into a meta-conversation tarpit, but I think Strygon's character needs defending here.
I have warned players that visibility will be a serious problem without freelook translation, but lunar sage ignored the sticky post, and seems to be demanding some kind of "megaproject" that I'm not interested in as well as using this thread as platform to promote his own uncompleted magnum opus. Beyond that, I'll hold my tongue.
Strygon is not really one to shamelessly self-promote, and the mention of FCW is perfectly reasonable as adding context to the commentary. Insinuating otherwise is unreasonable and unproductive.
Likewise, even if you warned of the issue with visibility, it is still reasonable and worthwhile for a tester to point out that it is for them too large an issue to ignore.
Responses like this really stand in opposition to your claim that "input is always welcome". It's reasonable to offer explanations and insight into the logic, but feedback doesn't feel very welcome when it is responded to with barbs and assumptions that the opinions are 'uninformed'.
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Thanks, I myself was struggling to formulate a response because I was fairly pissed at this response.
I would also like to point out that as someone who played through half the mod's missions, my opinion should by no means count as uninformed. Players shouldn't have to watch someone else's video to count as "properly informed"
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re "seperating" the mods' components
oh man, believe me I tried
this was the original format and knossos makes it a huge PITA. I've consulted with the pros on this extensively.
It's been suggested that the cockpits just be an option included with MediaVPs. This would have been less feasible, before, but the engine now has ways for the player to toggle them either in mission or via UI, and player inputs for "lean" make them more playable without head tracking. X-Wing Alliance Upgrade and Tie Fighter Total Conversion have these "accessibility features", and they are nice.
MediaVPs would mean I'd have to bring the models and HUD up to some standard that they may not be at rn, but it also would virtually guarantee that others would work on them too at some point in the future. I really need to start the damn Ursa already.....
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EatThePath had a pretty good response, so I will just echo what he said. Strygon's post was pretty thoughtful and thorough.
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wrt AI profiles, you may want to revisit stalemate time treshold, distance treshold, and Max Aim Update delays.
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https://youtu.be/gCq9H0oMnFU
$Player Afterburner Recharge Scale: 5, 4, 3, 2, 1
$Max Beam Friendly Fire Damage: 0, 5, 10, 20, 30
$Player Countermeasure Life Scale: 10, 9, 8, 7, 6
$AI Countermeasure Firing Chance: 0.2, 0.3, 0.5, 0.7, .8
$AI In Range Time: 2, 1.0, 0.5, 0, -1
$AI Always Links Ammo Weapons: 95, 80, 60, 40, 20
$AI Maybe Links Ammo Weapons: 90, 60, 40, 20, 10
$Primary Ammo Burst Multiplier: 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
$AI Always Links Energy Weapons: 100, 80, 60, 40, 20
$AI Maybe Links Energy Weapons: 90, 80, 70, 60, 50
$Max Missiles Locked on Player: 1 2, 3, 4, 5
$Max Player Attackers: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
$Max Incoming Asteroids: 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
$Player Damage Factor: .50, .55, .60, .65, .70
$Player Subsys Damage Factor: .1, .15, .3, .4, .5
$Predict Position Delay: 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
$AI Shield Manage Delay: 2.5, 2.0, 1.5, 1.25, 1
$Friendly AI Fire Delay Scale: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
$Hostile AI Fire Delay Scale: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
$Friendly AI Secondary Fire Delay Scale: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
$Hostile AI Secondary Fire Delay Scale: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
$AI Turn Time Scale: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
$Glide Attack Percent: 50, 60, 70, 80, 90
$Circle Strafe Percent: 50, 60, 70, 80, 90
$Glide Strafe Percent: 50, 60, 70, 80, 90
$Random Sidethrust Percent: 50, 60, 70, 80, 90
$Stalemate Time Threshold: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
$Stalemate Distance Threshold: 2000, 2000, 2000, 2000, 2000
$Player Shield Recharge Scale: 2, 1.5, 1.2, 1, .8
$Player Weapon Recharge Scale: 2, 1.75, 1.5, 1.25, 1
$Max Turret Target Ownage: 3, 4, 7, 12, 19
$Max Turret Player Ownage: 3, 4, 7, 12, 19
$Percentage Required For Kill Scale: 0.30, 0.30, 0.30, 0.30, 0.30
$Percentage Required For Assist Scale: 0.15, 0.15, 0.15, 0.15, 0.15
$Percentage Awarded For Capship Assist: 0.1, 0.2, 0.35, 0.5, 0.6
$Repair Penalty: 10, 20, 35, 50, 60
$Delay Before Allowing Bombs to Be Shot Down: 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5
$Chance AI Has to Fire Missiles at Player: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
$Max Aim Update Delay: .3, .3, .3, .3, .3
$Turret Max Aim Update Delay: .3, .3, .3, .3, .3
$Player Autoaim FOV: 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0
$Detail Distance Multiplier: 0.125,0.25, 1.0, 4.0, 8.0
$big ships can attack beam turrets on untargeted ships: YES
$smart primary weapon selection: YES
$smart secondary weapon selection: YES
$smart shield management: YES
$smart afterburner management: YES
$free afterburner use: YES
$allow rapid secondary dumbfire: NO
$huge turret weapons ignore bombs: YES
$don't insert random turret fire delay: NO
$hack improve non-homing swarm turret fire accuracy: YES
$shockwaves damage small ship subsystems: YES
$navigation subsystem governs warpout capability: NO
$ignore lower bound for minimum speed of docked ship: YES
$disable linked fire penalty: NO
$disable weapon damage scaling: YES
$use additive weapon velocity: YES
$use newtonian dampening: YES
$include beams for kills and assists: YES
$score kills based on damage caused: YES
$score assists based on damage caused: YES
$allow event and goal scoring in multiplayer: YES
$fix linked primary weapon decision bug: YES
$fix ramming stationary targets bug: YES
$prevent turrets targeting too distant bombs: YES
$smart subsystem targeting for turrets: YES
$fix heat seekers homing on stealth ships bug: YES
$multi allow empty primaries: YES
$multi allow empty secondaries: YES
$allow turrets target weapons freely: YES
$use only single fov for turrets: YES
$allow vertical dodge: YES
$force beam turrets to use normal fov: NO
$fix AI class bug: YES
$turrets ignore targets radius in range checks: YES
$No extra collision avoidance vs player: YES
$perform fewer checks for death screams: NO
$advanced turret fov edge checks: YES
$require turrets to have target in fov: YES
$all ships manage shields: YES
$ai aims from ship center: YES
$allow primary link at mission start: YES
$fighterbay arrivals use carrier orientation: NO
$fighterbay departures use carrier orientation: NO
$ai path mode: alt1
$fix ai path order bug: YES
$aspect bomb invulnerability fix: YES
$ai can slow down when attacking big ships: YES
;$lead indicator second-order prediction factor: 0.15
$no directional bias for missile and ship turning: YES
$respect ship axial turnrate differences: YES
$any ship with no shields can manage ETS: NO
$fighters/bombers with no shields can manage ETS: YES
$better combat collision avoidance for fightercraft: YES
$improved missile avoidance for fightercraft: NO
$friendly ships use AI profile countermeasure chance: YES
$improved subsystem attack pathing: YES
$fix keep-safe-distance: YES
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the real problem has to do with this https://wiki.hard-light.net/index.php/Ships.tbl#.2BGlide_Accel_Mult:
and this https://wiki.hard-light.net/index.php/Ships.tbl#.2BMax_Glide_Speed:
$Glide: YES
+Max Glide Speed: -1.0
+Glide Accel Mult: 1.50
$Use Newtonian Dampening: YES
AI is not used to going any faster than "max ovclk" - you can only make them do that somewhat indirectly in hacky ways... I do it with certain ships under certain mission conditions with sexps and tables....
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$Stalemate Time Threshold: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
$Stalemate Distance Threshold: 2000, 2000, 2000, 2000, 2000
These mean that the AI of *all* small ships which:
are within 2000m of their target
AND
have been there for over a second
will act as if they're in a no-win turnfight. This AI mode only really exists to force the AI to break out of "circling each other forever" behaviour. You probably do not want fighters to be constantly acting like this. As an example, BP uses 15 seconds and a distance of 100m. This was only really an issue that needed addressing in BTRL due to low fighter counts and very high speeds, but even then the values you have here are going to mess with many other circumstances where the AI should be behaving normally.
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I think I understand both you and also the behaviour as demonstrated in the source code, but I should make sure. I might be looking at this more broadly. now I'm not sure. will update or maybe poke you in discord
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Someone who correctly understands what these values do would not have set them this way...
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what is the problem with it? I would be so happy to finally hear what the problems are with the current values. I already made some changes based on sages and joshuas previous comments (here or maybe discord too). I will post an update after one more test, so hold off until then please.
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Well the issue is quite obvious, with such a long range and such a short time the AI will consider after a singular second of being within 2,000m of the target and not shooting or having been shot at:
"This is clearly an unwinnable stalemate, I need to break away and re-engage"
Which it really should not be doing if you wish for AI ships to attack normally and not tend to turn tail from most oncoming engagements.
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hmmm. I don't think that's correct, but I don't want to debate you sage. I also think that those who assume that I am clueless are often disappointed. I only speak with authority when I'm sure of myself. In FreeSpace I almost always defer to others' experience, which I've done in the case of AI behavior each time I was confused.
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you can keep saying that if you like
I'm not sure what the problem is without each config being explained in turn
I have no idea why you feel so threatened by me or my strong opinions and feel the need for criticizing a table and not explaining what's wrong with it - but go right ahead I guess I'm not gonna silence you
anyhow that was version 2.8.
here is 3.0
enjoy!
$Player Afterburner Recharge Scale: 5, 4, 3, 2, 1
$Max Beam Friendly Fire Damage: 0, 5, 10, 20, 30
$Player Countermeasure Life Scale: 10, 9, 8, 7, 6
$AI Countermeasure Firing Chance: 0.4, 0.5, 0.6, 0.7, .8
$AI In Range Time: 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
$AI Always Links Ammo Weapons: 95, 80, 60, 40, 20
$AI Maybe Links Ammo Weapons: 90, 60, 40, 20, 10
$Primary Ammo Burst Multiplier: 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
$AI Always Links Energy Weapons: 100, 80, 60, 40, 20
$AI Maybe Links Energy Weapons: 90, 80, 70, 60, 50
$Max Missiles Locked on Player: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
$Max Player Attackers: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
$Max Incoming Asteroids: 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
$Player Damage Factor: .50, .55, .70, .80, .90
$Player Subsys Damage Factor: .1, .2, .3, .4, .5
$Predict Position Delay: 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
$AI Shield Manage Delay: 2.5, 2.0, 1.5, 1.25, 1
$Friendly AI Fire Delay Scale: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
$Hostile AI Fire Delay Scale: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
$Friendly AI Secondary Fire Delay Scale: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
$Hostile AI Secondary Fire Delay Scale: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
$AI Turn Time Scale: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
$Glide Attack Percent: 100, 100, 100, 100, 100
$Circle Strafe Percent: 100, 100, 100, 100, 100
$Glide Strafe Percent: 100, 100, 100, 100, 100
$Random Sidethrust Percent: 100, 100, 100, 100, 100
$Player Shield Recharge Scale: 2, 1.5, 1.2, 1, .8
$Player Weapon Recharge Scale: 2, 1.75, 1.5, 1.25, 1
$Max Turret Target Ownage: 4, 4, 4, 4, 4
$Max Turret Player Ownage: 3, 4, 7, 10, 15
$Percentage Required For Kill Scale: 0.30, 0.30, 0.30, 0.30, 0.30
$Percentage Required For Assist Scale: 0.15, 0.15, 0.15, 0.15, 0.15
$Percentage Awarded For Capship Assist: 0.1, 0.2, 0.35, 0.5, 0.6
$Repair Penalty: 10, 20, 35, 50, 60
$Delay Before Allowing Bombs to Be Shot Down: 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5
$Chance AI Has to Fire Missiles at Player: 0, 0, 1, 2, 3
$Max Aim Update Delay: 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0
$Turret Max Aim Update Delay: 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0
$Player Autoaim FOV: 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0
$Detail Distance Multiplier: 0.125,0.25, 1.0, 4.0, 8.0
$big ships can attack beam turrets on untargeted ships: YES
$smart primary weapon selection: YES
$smart secondary weapon selection: YES
$smart shield management: YES
$smart afterburner management: YES
$free afterburner use: YES
$allow rapid secondary dumbfire: NO
$huge turret weapons ignore bombs: YES
$don't insert random turret fire delay: NO
$hack improve non-homing swarm turret fire accuracy: YES
$shockwaves damage small ship subsystems: YES
$navigation subsystem governs warpout capability: NO
$ignore lower bound for minimum speed of docked ship: YES
$disable linked fire penalty: NO
$disable weapon damage scaling: YES
$use additive weapon velocity: YES
$use newtonian dampening: YES
$include beams for kills and assists: YES
$score kills based on damage caused: YES
$score assists based on damage caused: YES
$allow event and goal scoring in multiplayer: YES
$fix linked primary weapon decision bug: YES
$fix ramming stationary targets bug: YES
$prevent turrets targeting too distant bombs: YES
$smart subsystem targeting for turrets: YES
$fix heat seekers homing on stealth ships bug: YES
$multi allow empty primaries: YES
$multi allow empty secondaries: YES
$allow turrets target weapons freely: YES
$use only single fov for turrets: YES
$allow vertical dodge: YES
$force beam turrets to use normal fov: NO
$fix AI class bug: YES
$turrets ignore targets radius in range checks: YES
$No extra collision avoidance vs player: YES
$perform fewer checks for death screams: NO
$advanced turret fov edge checks: YES
$require turrets to have target in fov: YES
$all ships manage shields: YES
$ai aims from ship center: YES
$allow primary link at mission start: YES
$fighterbay arrivals use carrier orientation: NO
$fighterbay departures use carrier orientation: NO
$ai path mode: alt1
$fix ai path order bug: YES
$aspect bomb invulnerability fix: YES
$ai can slow down when attacking big ships: YES
;$lead indicator second-order prediction factor: 0.15
$no directional bias for missile and ship turning: YES
$respect ship axial turnrate differences: YES
$any ship with no shields can manage ETS: NO
$fighters/bombers with no shields can manage ETS: YES
$better combat collision avoidance for fightercraft: YES
$improved missile avoidance for fightercraft: NO
$friendly ships use AI profile countermeasure chance: YES
$improved subsystem attack pathing: YES
$fix keep-safe-distance: YES
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you can keep saying that if you like
I'm not sure what the problem is without each config being explained in turn
I have no idea why you feel so threatened by me or my strong opinions and feel the need for criticizing
I don't feel threatened? I don't think I came across as such either, it was a simple explanation of how the AI may behave incorrectly due to these given values.
I'm just trying to help, man.
As for why I feel the need to criticize? Well I want to offer my informed opinion as an experienced modder when it comes to stuff like tables. I don't think that's a bad thing.
a table and not explaining what's wrong with it - but go right ahead I guess I'm not gonna silence you
And this segment is what, chopped liver?
Well the issue is quite obvious, with such a long range and such a short time the AI will consider after a singular second of being within 2,000m of the target and not shooting or having been shot at:
"This is clearly an unwinnable stalemate, I need to break away and re-engage"
Which it really should not be doing if you wish for AI ships to attack normally and not tend to turn tail from most oncoming engagements.
The problem outlined is:
AI recognizes that a target is within 2,000m of them.
They now assume they are dogfighting the enemy and begin counting down how long it has been since either one of the two has taken any damage.
In this instance, the amount of time that has to pass is one second.
After this second has passed, the AI therefore thinks it is locked in a neverending turnfight and therefore breaks away in order to break the stalemate.
This is bad behavior because with such values it is entirely possible that the AI may start breaking away from stalemates that aren't actually stalemates, or even dogfights.
This is what me, Joshua, qazwsxal and EatThePath have all been discussing in the #bp channel. This isn't an unfounded opinion, this is what the expected outcome is based on how the engine works.
I can't make this any more easy to understand.
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hmmm. I don't think that's correct, but I don't want to debate you sage. I also think that those who assume that I am clueless are often disappointed. I only speak with authority when I'm sure of myself. In FreeSpace I almost always defer to others' experience, which I've done in the case of AI behavior each time I was confused.
I know it's bad form to post about posting when not a moderator, but please do consider this piece of advice: this entire discussion shows a pattern of bad communication based on your habit of "speaking with authority". You are very skilled as a modder, you have strong ideas and motivations and a habit of experimentation that will serve you well. But what you also have is a tendency to trust the results of your experimentation over and above the advice given to you by others.
See, for example, the post qazwsx made, explaining in short and easy terms what those two AI settings do, why setting them to those specific values may cause issues, and why they were set that way in a specific situation. Your response was "I think I understand". Then Strygon throws in a throwaway comment that you respond to with "what's the problem, someone please explain this to me" when the explanation you were looking for was in the post directly above. Further, you say that "you don't think that's correct", without explaining why you think that (which in this case would require you to actually show, with citations from the source code, how both qaz' and Strygons explanations were wrong). Further, in a later post you say people "feel the need for criticizing a table and not explaining what's wrong with it", when an explanation actually was provided that you seemingly ignored, which flies in the face of your line that you "almost always defer to other's experience".
Now, to be fair to you, you have a bit of a point when it comes to Joshua's response, which just told you to check if those stalemate values were what you wanted to be. But, then again, you have shown that you are quite capable of figuring things out on your own, that you are able and willing to read the documentation on the wiki, which means that someone might reasonably expect that dropping a short hint like this and letting you figure things out the way you usually do would be enough. Instead, we get this whole posting chain in all its ignominity.