Author Topic: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]  (Read 26282 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Torchwood

  • 27
  • Mechanical Templar
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Getting some battlecruisers out would go a long way to make those cruiser skirmishes end in your favor. Even if it's just the picket ships that end up sunk, losing them can still hamper the enemy.

It's just a shame you don't have something better to arm them with than quality -1 11 inch guns.

May I ask why so much of your maximum displacement is unused? Those extra tons could either go to more armor or a few extra knots of speed.

 

Offline Enioch

  • 210
  • Alternative History Word Writer
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Getting some battlecruisers out would go a long way to make those cruiser skirmishes end in your favor. Even if it's just the picket ships that end up sunk, losing them can still hamper the enemy.

It's just a shame you don't have something better to arm them with than quality -1 11 inch guns.

If those BCs get to fight in this war, something will have gone very wrong indeed. They will be building for more than two years!

Also, I'll take what I can get. An 8-gun central-fired broadside of -1 11-inchers is the equal of (and arguably better than) anything the Brits have right now. Also, it renders most of the British predread fleet utterly obsolete and her 25 knots blow every early CA and CL out of the water, which is what is important right now.

Quote
May I ask why so much of your maximum displacement is unused? Those extra tons could either go to more armor or a few extra knots of speed.

None of my maximum displacement is unused. Re-read the small print captions.

I forgot to screenshot the Von der Tann design at the time, so I opened up my 1950 savefile and had a look at the design there. This allows you guys to see the design but assigns technological / weight values that are based on 1950s technology, not 1905. If I were building this in 1950, I would have 3.2k tons still available to fit on the hull, because armor, guns and engines have become lighter over the decades. However, in 1905, I barely had 100 spare tons or so, which I left empty for future fire control upgrades.

What really pissed me off was that I got the 'Private Shipbuilding expands your docks!' event immediately after I laid down these babies. With an extra 1000 tons, I could have given them an extra inch of belt or an extra knot.

'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Don't the Brits and Baguettes for that matter have 12' -1 guns at the start? Or were those -2 I forget I haven't played earlygame RTW much recently, something I should probably fix soon
AKA [`_`]
Inferno: It's the I in Inferno / It's the beam spam delight / Risin' up to a shock jump arrivaaaaaal
Between The Ashes: Look just a really cool and neat thing, OK?
Dimesional Eclipse: High speed anime action fun gone horribly right
The Last Stand: A very episodic capship command mini-campaign
Breakthrough: A pretty standard but not really capship command mission

 

Offline Enioch

  • 210
  • Alternative History Word Writer
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
I was comparing BROADSIDES, not GUNS.

Brits start with -1 12inchers and Baguettes start with -1 12 inchers inches AND -2 13inchers.

What they don't have at this point in the game is any tech beyond 3 centre line turrets. The best they can bring to hear is 6 12 inchers. The Germans, on the other hand, have an 8 11inch broadside building.

So yeah. Worse guns, but much better utilisation and a bigger broadside weight.
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Enioch

  • 210
  • Alternative History Word Writer
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Also, doubleposting with major spoiler because I need to brag.

I very much resented the 1950s cutoff point because it meant that I would need to leave a very...interesting war unfinished. I then found a way to screw with the save file and continue playing for another year, until I could bring the war to a close.

I have brought that war to a close and completed this playthrough to my complete, utter and grim satisfaction. Holy crap, was that cathartic.

MAJOR spoilers if you follow the link.

Spoiler:
Ruling the Waves
You and your bull**** endgame budget can go **** yourselves. Bloody Mary Sue nation
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Enioch

  • 210
  • Alternative History Word Writer


SMS Seydlitz under construction in Wilhelmshaven

It was sad to see the focus of the Admiralität shift back from cruisers to capital ships; and, as construction on the Medusas froze to release funds for the Von der Tann-class, I couldn't but lament at the sight of the deserted drydocks. On the other hand, I could not but marvel at the proposed capabilities of the Von der Tann and the Goeben. They took everything about Hertha that I loved: the speed, the toughness, the no-nonsense focus on performance and upscaled it into a capital ship frame that inspired sheer awe.

I freely admit it - I wanted these ships. And then, of course, the Shiffskonstruktionbüreau took everything about those ships that drew me in and distilled it into what would become the Moltke-class and I knew that my future lay with the Schlachtkreuzer.

-Vizeadm. Galster K (post mort.) 1956, The Naval Question: Collected Papers and Letters, edited by Dr. Ernst Jablonka, Universitätsverlag Heidelberg.




February 1906: The Admiralität, with only ten million Goldmarken in reserve and a monthly deficit of several million, freezes the construction of Arcona and Hamburg. The Medusas were unlucky to have been conceived in the time of the Battlecruiser craze. Work on the Von der Tann and Goeben continues.



In March, the French fleet sorties to resupply and relieve the German blockade. Their presence proves to be of great assistance, as two Italian blockade runners are forced to scurry back to Napoli.



Ariadne also spots an Italian light cruiser trying to slip past; the German ship intiates a long, drawn-out pursuit, through a springtime squall; the Italian finally manages to escape after suffering considerable but not critical damage.



And in April, the German fleet began using the new "Hartmann" signal code (named so after Konteradmiral Alfred Hartmann who pushed for its implementation). Galster also began lobbying for the integration of wireless systems in the fleet; and it was decided to gradually include Marconi systems in all capital ships.



Crap. That's what happens when Ariadne lets raiders escape.





Well - nun ist die K**ke am Dampfen. The mood in the Admiralität nosedives. Germany is still limited to relatively poor-quality 11-inchers; and the Brits are already producing 14-inch rifles. Some good news would be nice...





THE GERMAN PEOPLE STAND BEHIND THEIR KAISER AND THEIR NAVY.

DER TAG WIRD KOMMEN.

In all seriousness - the public response to the winter public subscription campaign of the Admiralität went beyond all expectations - to such an extent that it was decided to proceed to a second phase of capital ship building.





Also - the next batch of submarines left the slipways.



Frauenlob chases down the La Spezia and pounds her to scrap off the coast of Kamerun.



And the R & D department... delivers.

Welcome, Cross-deck Fire. Thou art the rock on which I shall build my fleet.



Enter the Moltke-class. Same speed as the Von der Tann, so they can operate jointly; same weight of broadside; but the removal of two wing turrets thank to the cross-fire design meant that a massive amount of weight could be economised.

That weight went to armor. The Moltkes had a belt that was a full four inches thicker than the Von der Tann: the belt armor of those Schlachtkreuzer was thicker than the old Schwaben-class predreads. Even more significantly, they were built for fleet command roles, with a reinforced conning tower. Finally, they had a fully splinter-proof deck, two inches thick, running the entire length of the ship, and bigger ammunition magazines.



An immediate downpayment of five-and-a-half million Goldmarken went to prepare the docks and hire new personel; and construction started by the end of May 1905.



The same month also marked the completion of the last pre-war submarine batch.



Back to the front! On the 12th of June, Hela snuck into the gulf of Taranto once more, for a raid on merchant shipping - this time in broad daylight.



At 14:05 she came across the small, 5k-ton freighter La Bella, whose crew immediately abandoned ship upon sighting of the German raider.



Two hours later, Hela also engaged the 8k-ton Chimera. The Italian attempted to escape and Hela pursued, sending the enemy ship to the bottom with a few 6-inch shots.



After a brief...altercaption with a couple of patrolling destroyers, Hela retreated, not wishing to risk any damage to herself.





Once again, the German cruisers had proven that they could enter Italian waters at will; and sink their merchant shipping uncontested. It was certainly no massive success; but it helped improve morale.

Note that war weariness had started to affect both the military and the civilian population at this point. The initial jingoistic feelings of 1904 had cooled; and it was difficult to ignore the fact that, despite the continuous fighting in the Alpine front (which, by now, had completely stagnated again) and the German blockade, the Italians were nowhere near surrendering.

Or coming out to fight, for that matter. Feiglinge!

[OOC: Note the '2' Unrest. At 10, you lose the game.]



The Admiralty had no immediate answer to the problem, to the consternation of the Kaiser; so they resorted to what they knew best. They invested in further infrastructure improvements looking towards a more ambitious future capit-



Oh. Oho.

"Interesting," thought von Mecklenburg. "We need to approach this opportunity to end the war with the care and consideration it deserves, keeping in mind the potential benefits to the German economy and the international diplomatic sit-"

"GIVE ME ALL YOUR STUFF, STUPID PASTA-EATERS," screamed the Kaiser.*

*Dramatisation, performed by professional actors. The Kaiser may not have said "GIVE ME ALL YOUR STUFF, STUPID PASTA-EATERS." But nobody can prove that he didn't say those words at some point. In that order or any other. Thank you for your support of The History Channel.

« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 10:21:27 am by Enioch »
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline StarSlayer

  • 211
  • Men Kaeshi Do
    • Steam
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Bring on ze Kaiser BCs!

“Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world”

 

Offline Enioch

  • 210
  • Alternative History Word Writer
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Patience. They'll show up.  :p
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Does this game model the blast damage and such that historically made cross-decking not actually all that good?

Also KAISER ****ING WILHEIM NO  :nono:
AKA [`_`]
Inferno: It's the I in Inferno / It's the beam spam delight / Risin' up to a shock jump arrivaaaaaal
Between The Ashes: Look just a really cool and neat thing, OK?
Dimesional Eclipse: High speed anime action fun gone horribly right
The Last Stand: A very episodic capship command mini-campaign
Breakthrough: A pretty standard but not really capship command mission

 

Offline Torchwood

  • 27
  • Mechanical Templar
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Will building a BC satisfy the condition for that battleship proto-kickstarter or do you need to actually build a proper dreadnought?

 

Offline Enioch

  • 210
  • Alternative History Word Writer
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Bring on ze Kaiser BCs!

*snip*

Patience. They'll show up.  :p



Does this game model the blast damage and such that historically made cross-decking not actually all that good?

Also KAISER ****ING WILHEIM NO  :nono:

Based on my (admittedly brief) research, cross-deck fire was not a bad concept and its implementation by the Germans was a relative success (i.e. their ships were designed in such a way that blast damage on the deck was not a major issue). However, what we usually hear are reports of the 'failed' English implementation of the cross-deck firing layout (in e.g. the Invincibles and Indefatigables). The British ships were designed with the first priority being compatibility with dockyards all over the Empire, which resulted in a cramped turret arrangement and a smaller ship, which suffered more under the stress.

That said, cross-deck capable turrets are heavier than normal wing turrets (they require more reinforcement) and they have a limited arc of fire, both of which are reflected in-game.

Will building a BC satisfy the condition for that battleship proto-kickstarter or do you need to actually build a proper dreadnought?

The kickstarter would be satisfied with a predread (B), a battlecruiser (BC) or a dreadnought (BB) (as long as it has a 'B' in the designation, it's fine).
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 01:56:19 pm by Enioch »
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Enioch

  • 210
  • Alternative History Word Writer
OOC: Sorry for taking so long with this update. I was...otherwise occupied.




"His Majesty's desire to secure the best possible arrangement for Germany in a peace with Italy was commendable; however, he tended to confuse the 'best' arrangement with the 'most profitable' arrangement.

"This made my work exceedingly difficult as we entered the second year of what would come to be known as the Long War."

-From the private writings of Herzog Johann Albrecht von Mecklenburg, Reichskanzler 1902-1920.

Well - the Italians would, of course, not give all their 'stuff' to the Kaiser, no matter the latter's dimplomatic acumen. The war continued despite von Mecklenburg's attempts to broker a satisfactory agreement.





Shortly after the sinking of the peace negotiations, the R & D department submitted their monthly reports. News were mixed. On the one hand, no breakthroughs were reported and the designs proposed by Dr. Benner's submarine development team for enhanced battery capacity for the German submarines had proven to be unreliable disasters, forcing a return to the drawing-board. On the other hand, the yards in Wilhelmshaven and Kiel had begun to implement strict quality control measures in the building of Von der Tann and Goeben and the Admiralty had requested for a codification and implementation of these measures on a wider scale in German shipbuilding.





Italian raiders continued to operate near Kamerun; and the Vettor Pisani remained a constant thorn in Galster's side in the Mediterranean.



But then, on the 5th of July, Amazone had a chance to redeem herself for her earlier encounter with the Pisani. Shortly after dawn, Venetia, the last surviving La Spezia-class raider tried to force the German blockade and slip through Gibraltar. What the Italians failed to notice was Amazone, making slow steam a few miles south of Cartagena.



Amazone fires up her boilers, clears her decks for action and takes up pursuit; the Italian runs.



But her fate is sealed: Amazone has two knots on her and is packing 6-inch guns to the Italian's 5-inchers. Two hours after first contact, the Venetia goes down, with fourty of her crew; the Germans rescue two hundred more.



It's a clean victory; and one that has the Kaiser shower praise on the cruiser commanders. Pressure from the Palace to accellerate the construction of the Schlachtkreuzer increases; the Admiralität resists for now, blaming their limited budget.



Of course, the Kaiser has little to actually complain about. Nothing in the world can compare to the raw tonnage in old battleships the Brits can bring to a fight (almost half a million tons of armor and gun looking askance at the Baltic and the North Sea); but in what concerns modern battlecruisers and capital ships, Germany is actually ahead, the Admiralität making good use of their wartime budget. Germany has four ultra-modern 24k ton Schlachtkreuzer building; Great Britain, on the other hand, only has three battlecruisers and a new experimental 'Dreadnought' under construction, all of which are in the 18k-20k ton range.



August rolls in. The new quality control measures are implemented in all Imperial Werft drydocks; and a launch date for the Von der Tann is set, exactly two years from now.



France also smashes an Italian counter-offensive and begins drawing plans for a naval invasion of Sicily, to draw Italian forces away from the northern front and leverage her manpower advantage. The German High Command considers what forces can be detailed to support the French endeavour; the heavy cruisers seem to be the best options.



In a preparatory patrol, Hertha runs into the Bari, returning from a successful raid off Kamerun. The end result of the engagement surprises nobody - Hertha has pretty much established herself as the terror of the Mediterranean at this point.



Goddammit, that's three hundred thousand Goldmarken down the drain. For God's sake, Kaleuns stop running your boats into ASW ships.



Messina makes the Italians proud in the Mediterranean, running the blocakde on three separate occasions.



And then, finally scouting submarines report that the Italian fleet (or what's left of it) are making steam toward Sardinia. There is a chance here, if only Büchsel can grab it! The German battle-line mobilises...



And the Italian fleet just runs back to port. Büchsel is frustrated, but claims a strategic victory, as the blockade closes down on Sardinia.





News from Japan! Unlike the Brits and Germans, they have not committed fully to an 'all-big-gun' design: instead, they are building what the German engineers characterise as a 'super-battleship', with a slow top speed but a devastating secondary broadside. The design is clearly inferior to the German Schlachtkreuzer, but it might be highly effective against the colonial cruisers that the European Powers have deployed in the Far East. Interesting...





Yeeeeeees.

That 1% weight reduction is a bare-faced lie, by the way. Steam turbines are the single most important engineering upgrade, comparable to All-or-Nothing armor for ship design. They can offer you almost 2 extra knots for the same weight in the 25-26 knot range.





FFFFFUUUUUUUU.....





November comes; and the first reports of Italian Armed Merchant Cruisers also make their appearance. The Admiralität is unsure of how to deal with this new development. Projections show that the Italians could, potentially, convert a merchant vessel to a capable raider in under 4 months.





Now we only need multiple centreline turrets technology...



"**** YOU, SPAGHETTIS, MY SCHLACHTKREUZERS WILL SHELL YOUR PASTA PLANTATIONS TO THE GROUND. PASTA COMES FROM TREES, RIGHT?" said the Kaiser.







Yes, yes, all the technology.



Well. At least you achieved this much. Seriously, U-boote you're kind of a disappointment.

« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 10:21:02 am by Enioch »
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline StarSlayer

  • 211
  • Men Kaeshi Do
    • Steam


Now we only need multiple centreline turrets technology...

Can has König?

“Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world”

 

Offline Enioch

  • 210
  • Alternative History Word Writer
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Still no Superimposed B or 5+ Centreline.

Cannot has König
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline StarSlayer

  • 211
  • Men Kaeshi Do
    • Steam
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]


At least has Seydlitz?

“Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world”

 

Offline Enioch

  • 210
  • Alternative History Word Writer
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Can has Seydlitz  :yes:
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Quote
OOC: Sorry for taking so long with this update. I was...otherwise occupied.

Mass Effect Andromeda or Nier: Automata? :P

 

Offline Enioch

  • 210
  • Alternative History Word Writer
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Quote
OOC: Sorry for taking so long with this update. I was...otherwise occupied.

Mass Effect Andromeda or Nier: Automata? :P

Heh. Neither. Writing - other stuff.  :p
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Oooh. Intriguing.

 

Offline Enioch

  • 210
  • Alternative History Word Writer



The continuous pressure from the palace to conclude as advantageous a peace with Italy as possible galvanised the crews. I spent much more time than before away from the front, overseeing the building of the Schlachtkreuzer, but when in the Mediterranean, I was surprised to see how eager the crew of the Hertha and the other cruisers were to "finally break the Italians".

"We know we've won," the Gunnery Officer of the Vineta once told me, "and they know we've won. Now they only have to admit it."

-Vizeadm. Galster K (post mort.) 1956, The Naval Question: Collected Papers and Letters, edited by Dr. Ernst Jablonka, Universitätsverlag Heidelberg.



January 1906: the Christmas Truce ends and the German Navy sails up to the Italian harbors and institutes a close blockade, fuelled by French and German coalers. The Italians, unfortunately, stay in the harbors, to Büchsel's intense frustration.



News from Greece cheered him up, though. The Carlo Alberto had attempted to return to Taranto to refuel but it could not breach the blocakde and it had to be interned in Patras.



And on the 13th of February, shortly after noon, the three Zerstörer G9, G10 and S14 made a push on the Sardinian harbor of Cagliari. The weather was appalling, with gale-force winds and heavy rain, that really stressed the little ships.
 


17:48: A dark shape looms out of the gale, less than a hundred yards from G9. The Zerstörer's helmsman is slow to react; and G9 rams the unknown ship at almost 20 knots.

Thankfully, whatever the ship is, it doesn't seem to have any armor and the G9's prow cuts into its hull like a hot knife. The G10 and S14 turn to respond; and in the darkness they make out several more dark shapes sailing past. Identification signals are flashed but receive no response; the Germans open fire, in a chaotic short-range brawl.



The two squadrons eventually fade into the gale. It takes two days for the Germans to find out (from Italian statements) that their three Zerstörers had inadvertedly run into an eight-ship convoy, protected by a five-destroyer flotilla. Three of the Italian transports had been lost with all hands in the storm; one of their destroyers had also suffered considerable damage.



Goddamn it, but the light forces are winning this for us.



March 1906; almost two years into the Long War. The R & D department metaphorically kicks down the door to Tirpitz's office. They claim to have solved the torpedo problem. Underwater protection should render the next generation of German capital ships proof against this most dangerous of weapons. Unfortunately, it is impossible to integrate it into the Von der Tann and Moltke designs at this stage of their construction. But soon, soon...



Also, improved batteries and lighter engines for the submarine fleet! Perhaps they'll start pulling their own weight, eh?





Mein Gott, she's a goddess of war. The Pisani was a bigger ship and Hertha doesn't even need dockyard time.



A bit of an interesting observation. Every nation that perceives Germany...negatively has built massive minesweeper fleets. In contrast, France is puttering along at a sedate 4 patrol vessels. That's the AI trying to counter what they perceive as the biggest threat. Well, at least the submarines have caused the AI to waste money on patrol vessels instead of Dreadnoughts.



April; Hela enters the French drydocks in Mers-el-Kebir, with a faulty condenser. Her crew are incensed; they feel their absence from the front lines will prolong the war. Officers and crew together write a missive to Galster, asking for accellerated repairs; Galster is supportive and a three-month repair job gets finished in sixty days.



Finally, after two bloody years, the blockade seems to truly take effect. Büchsel tightens the noose.





That R & D. Glorious. DOITSU NO KAGAKU WA SEKAI ICHI.











« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 10:20:30 am by Enioch »
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)