Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Marcov on May 11, 2010, 09:25:56 am
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Recently, I've been wondering on why the GTVA needed to spend 20 years of effort to make some biga*s ship; if they were scared of another Shivan invasion, why didn't they just mass produce Orion destroyers, which, in my opinion, is more sensible; what if the Shivans attacked 2 years before the Colossus was finished? By that time, if they had done the alternative plan, they could've built (let's say) 5, out of 7, Orions, instead of having to wait for the Colossus to be complete.
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*Ahem*
The Colossus project was not, as it were, a project that was designed primarily to produce a giant warship.
Basically, it represented the GTVA's equivalent of the Manhattan project and the Apollo program all in one, in other words, a massive government effort into jumpstarting the economy through massive public funding. While it had the side effect of producing a bigass warship, it also served (and this is the critical bit) to get GTVA R&D and shipbuilding infrastructure to a level where it was more than self-sustaining again, after the loss of Earth.
It also gave the population something positive to look forward to. It gave them the feeling that, while there ARE massively powerful (but beatable*) aliens out there, Humanity and Vasudanity are not defeated but instead thriving.
Oh, and take a close look at the Deimos Corvettes and Hecate Destroyers next time. The design legacy from the Hades to the Collie to those two is rather clear, meaning that those, and the weapons they mount, are offshoots of the Colossus project.
Now, you asked why didn't they just mass produce Orion destroyers
Counterquestion: Did the GT(V)A actually have the capability to mass-produce Orions and Typhoons? AFTER they lost the two most-developed systems they had?
*beatable, because the Shivans seemingly stopped all attacks after the Lucy went down in flames. A reasonable assumption that got thoroughly thrashed in FS2.
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Now that is one nice answer :nod:
Thanks!
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From a tactical standpoint, sometimes having a single more powerful warship is favourable.
Think about it this way, using the critical existence failure model, where a warship retains roughly 100% of its firepower so long as it has 1 hitpoint remaining*. Also take into consideration a single opposing warship which is capable of destroying an Orion in a few volleys. In this case, having one ship with 10 times the firepower and 10 times the armor is better than having 10 separate ships, as when your ships are separate, every several volleys, you would be losing 10% of your firepower, whereas if you lumped them together, you would have 100% of your firepower until the moment it is destroyed.
Obviously, this takes into account quite specific circumstances, but from what the GTVA know of the Shivans, this is fairly relevant, especially in the context of the Colossus, which was designed to prospectively hunt SD Lucifers. Orions do get destroyed by Lucifer-class destroyers fairly quickly, resulting in a quicker dropoff of damage output. The GTVA had no way of knowing about multiple Sathanas-class warships, and could only really operate from knowledge during the great war, where the Shivans fielded a single flagship that served as the hub of control, not multiple targets that needed to be engaged simultaneously. As such, concentrating your own defense is worthwhile.
* This is not quite true in FS-verse due to fighter strikes on critical subsystems, but is close enough an approximation as the Shivans do not appear to do subsystem strikes with much frequency. Also, the turrets on the Colossus are well-armored enough to make this a non-factor in most circumstances - it takes a lot to take down one of the Colly's beam turrets, not so much for an Orion's.
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Exactly. In a classic display of military planning, the GTVA concentrated on building something that would win the last war they fought. The Colossus was built to kill another Lucifer all on its own; arguably, it succeeds there.
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In a universe where Stilleto II's exist, something like the Colly with much tougher turrets is certainly a more viable threat.
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Most of all, you have to consider that the GTVA though the Shivans would still be on the level of the Great War when they return; they might even have through that Shivans would return with a fleet just like the fleet of the Great War (-> Collie vs Lucifer comparison)... and still feared the day they shivans would ever come back...
when the Shivans did not they deployed a destroyer AND a corvette in response to an incursion by a single cruiser (a bit overkill is it not? - but consider how freightend the GTVA must be as the shivans returned in a fashion they did not anticipate
Secondly, after the Great War there must have been a need for a project that would both unify the remnants of the GTA (there are 3 cannon successor factions!) and strenghten the Terrans' bonds to the Vasudans... and Project Coloussus was among the first projects to be approved by the GTVA General Assemby
What better move then to use the common fear of another Shivan incursion to create a massive joint project like the Colossus...
And on another note, the Project Colossus was not just building the Colossus but also to build the infrastructure and to develop the technology to build this ship... which most likely laid the fundations for other post-Great War ship classes and system infrastructure, esspecially on Terran side
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It also gave the population something positive to look forward to.
Not really considering that the Colossus was highly classified.
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The Colly itself, yes. But the second-order effects definitely were not.
Besides, how secret can the Colly be?
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I think the technical specifications, and probably information about the progress of its construction, were classified, but not its existence. This way, you have the moral-boosting effect without suffering too much about security leaks.
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I think the technical specifications, and probably information about the progress of its construction, were classified, but not its existence. This way, you have the moral-boosting effect without suffering too much about security leaks.
though this is all true from what we would expect in the real world, the pilots that are with you when the colly is first deployed act in utter surprise suggesting that somehow total/near total secrecy had been maintained
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Point. The most likely is that people knew the GTVA was working on a big project, maybe they knew it was a one-of-a-kind über-warship or something, but nothing else was known. And especially, they didn't know when/how it was supposed to be deployed.
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Besides, how secret can the Colly be?
Secret enough that the NTF wasn't aware they were up a creek.
From a purely military point of view the Colossus is a linebreaker. Beam cannon mean that it is entirely possible, indeed even easy, to construct a node blockade that is nearly ironclad against destroyer-sized vessels and kill them before they have a chance to orient themselves and engage the blockade or do significant damage. Fightercraft are also vunerable if you can simply throw a wall of beams through the area of the node.
The Colossus is the answer. By sheer size and ability to absorb damage it can sweep aside any reasonable number of destroyers and establish a beachead in a hostile system. The relatively small increase in number of fightercraft it carries compared to a destroyer and its emphasis on direct-fire beam weaponry spread around the hull to engage at multiple angles are both adaptions to this role that don't make much sense if it was meant for a general combat or system control purpose.
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Well that answers the question about Alpha 1's priority as a pilot on the Aquitaine (Level Rho, apparently).
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the thing about the colossus project it would take thousands of people directly working on the project and indirectly in support industrys, with that number of ppl involved you would reasonably expect there to be leaks so he have hit one of the typical canon meats reality conflicts here
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Well..... I figure it's somewhat like the B2 or F22 (Or the F117). Meaning that people are aware of the existence of the project, and the general outline, but not the specific implementation, or general readiness state.
As Headdie said, the Colossus project took twenty years to completion, and there were hundreds of thousands of people directly or indirectly involved in it. You can't hide something like that, not completely.
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Too bad the colossus didn't get a chance to go through the knossos. It was busy cleaning up ntf while A1 and much smaller ships were in there. Colossus would have been able to hold it's own for a good long while in there and explore further.
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Does the colly even fit through?
IIRC the Sath doesn't actually fit (but you never find out since it gets destroyed before the first sath makes it through).
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Too bad the colossus didn't get a chance to go through the knossos. It was busy cleaning up ntf while A1 and much smaller ships were in there. Colossus would have been able to hold it's own for a good long while in there and explore further.
I disagree. The Colossus, with its enormous size, its logistical requirements, and its lack of subspace manoeuvrability (as evidenced by its inability to jump out to avoid Koth's ram), would have been a rather vulnerable target in the nebula.
I guess that's one of the reasons why the GTVA mostly deployed the more advanced and "flexible" classes of warships through the portal, leaving some of the old but still useful ones behind.
Hey, look! I'm posting meaningful content! :P :lol:
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Does the colly even fit through?
IIRC the Sath doesn't actually fit (but you never find out since it gets destroyed before the first sath makes it through).
They both do quite comfortably.
(http://i42.tinypic.com/2mdi06b.jpg)
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Too bad the colossus didn't get a chance to go through the knossos. It was busy cleaning up ntf while A1 and much smaller ships were in there. Colossus would have been able to hold it's own for a good long while in there and explore further.
I disagree. The Colossus, with its enormous size, its logistical requirements, and its lack of subspace manoeuvrability (as evidenced by its inability to jump out to avoid Koth's ram), would have been a rather vulnerable target in the nebula.
I guess that's one of the reasons why the GTVA mostly deployed the more advanced and "flexible" classes of warships through the portal, leaving some of the old but still useful ones behind.
Hey, look! I'm posting meaningful content! :P :lol:
the colly not being able to jump out can be explained by the jump drive not being fully charged to jump
Khonsu II: Together we built a civilization on the ruins of the Great War, and now we stand on the threshold of a new era of prosperity and harmony. With Project Colossus, the Vasudan people celebrate our shared covenant of peaceful co-existence and mutual defense of our Terran allies.
the Colly was not a terran warship, its a terran and vasudan warship. colly was more of a well armed symbol of the unity between the species that faced utter destruction of their entire civilizations and survived.
i read somewhere, it might have been the colossus cutscene, it states that colly's crew compliment is 30,000. it has 5 orions worth of firepower combined, which, when fully crewed equals 50,000 crew. orions are also expensive. "they cost more to build then it does cost more to build the ship than to pay the crew for 3 years (fs2 tech room i believe)
another reason for a colossus type ship: when she shows up, allied pilots, and naval crew know the battle wil be over soon. aside from the initial "oh sh*t!" mindset, the NTF changed their tactics to acomidate the colossus.
another reason for the colossus: the colossus is to destroyers as the Deimos/sobek is to cruisers. it was designed for one job: popping destroyers, which it does very well
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Too bad the colossus didn't get a chance to go through the knossos. It was busy cleaning up ntf while A1 and much smaller ships were in there. Colossus would have been able to hold it's own for a good long while in there and explore further.
I disagree. The Colossus, with its enormous size, its logistical requirements, and its lack of subspace manoeuvrability (as evidenced by its inability to jump out to avoid Koth's ram), would have been a rather vulnerable target in the nebula.
I guess that's one of the reasons why the GTVA mostly deployed the more advanced and "flexible" classes of warships through the portal, leaving some of the old but still useful ones behind.
Hey, look! I'm posting meaningful content! :P :lol:
the colly not being able to jump out can be explained by the jump drive not being fully charged to jump
there is also the matter of room needed to jump out in
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Or because in 9 out of 10 cases the Orion is blasted to bits before it reaches the Colossus and even if it hits, it does only little damage.
Why jump out and risk Admiral Koth being able to escape when there is as good as no risk at all of losing the Colossus even if the Orion manages to ram it?
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Oh no......not again
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Why jump out and risk Admiral Koth being able to escape when there is as good as no risk at all of losing the Colossus even if the Orion manages to ram it?
Exactly. The whole point of the Operation was to neutralize the Repulse. The Colossus' CO would probably have faced the chopping board if he jumped.
Too bad the colossus didn't get a chance to go through the knossos. It was busy cleaning up ntf while A1 and much smaller ships were in there. Colossus would have been able to hold it's own for a good long while in there and explore further.
The Colossus is waaaaaay too large to go Dora-The-Explorer through the portal. It may have been good however to neutralize Ravana class vessels and any Molochs pilots and PWOs get fed up with. Although it might be a good idea to keep the Colossus out of most engagements, since the Shivans might have started to accommodate the Colossus into their strategy (earlier).
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(http://i42.tinypic.com/2mdi06b.jpg)
Now I'm reminded of an ancient Inferno joke about the Shivans being unable to haul their Gigas or Gargant through the Knossos...
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We're forgetting how well armed the colossus is, how many fighter and bomber wings it houses, and the fact that it fits through the knossos fine.
I'd give the colossus some deimoses for escort at least.
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Now imagine a FLEET of collosi.
It is only reasonable that after building one, they will build more when they have more resources. Which will likely happen if given another 5 years they will strip mine all resources avaliable.
Also, one ship is a LOT easier to manage than one fleet.
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Great way to drive up the economy in post fs2. That'd provide a lot of jobs.
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Now imagine a FLEET of collosi.
It is only reasonable that after building one, they will build more when they have more resources. Which will likely happen if given another 5 years they will strip mine all resources avaliable.
Also, one ship is a LOT easier to manage than one fleet.
Fleet of Collosi....that lose to an inferior number of Sathanii.... Yea.
Based on Command's logic they would be building something to stop Sathanii.
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Yeah, possibly some better beam technology as well.
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Now imagine a FLEET of collosi.
It is only reasonable that after building one, they will build more when they have more resources. Which will likely happen if given another 5 years they will strip mine all resources avaliable.
Also, one ship is a LOT easier to manage than one fleet.
Circumstances have changed. In addition to its stated role of taking down the Lucifer if another one showed up, the Colossus is clearly based on Great War experience where the Shivans only fought for jump nodes. When the Colossus was concieved of and even at the time of its first combat deployment, there was every reason to believe the GTVA would need a linebreaker in the next war with the Shivans, because there was every reason to believe that the next war would have an offensive stage.
This is no longer the case. But even if it is, the GTVA has a new and better way of taking down blockades: meson bombs.
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I think the Colossus would have been ill suited to explore beyond the nebula.
You remember that big convoy of supplies you had to get through NTF contested space? Now imagine getting such convoys through the nebula....
With the limited sensor ranges (even with AWACS support) the supply lines are too exposed to risk sending her deep into the nebula, much less into the system beyond the second knossos.
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The nebula is full of gas the colli can use. Then again, all those transports for the colli was for a big preparation for the colli intended for a big sustained crippling of the ntf. We've never had missions with such transports for destroyers before. Who knows how often they need them let alone the colli. This is something that's rather big to speculate on, sort of like subspace drive recharge time.
Sensor range in the nebula wasn't that bad. Yeah you'll get an awacs in there of course, but even still, otherwise other ships in the nebular theater would have pulled out too. In fs2 we do get to escort a lane of transports into the nebula. For the most part, that was easier than doing the transports for the colli. Then again, the shivans really have some **** fighters, weapons, and fighter tactics. I only give respect to the shivans awesome big ships, all their bombers, and the mara, dragon, and astartoth (only problem with the astaroth is that it seems rather ineffective when in the wrong situation, it really seems the shivans have an interceptor for nothing). But bombers going after a transport convoy? That's a little over kill for the shivans and they always do it; not hard to take down big bullseyes.
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I think the Colossus would have been ill suited to explore beyond the nebula.
You remember that big convoy of supplies you had to get through NTF contested space? Now imagine getting such convoys through the nebula....
With the limited sensor ranges (even with AWACS support) the supply lines are too exposed to risk sending her deep into the nebula, much less into the system beyond the second knossos.
Well, it's quite simply summed up in the fact that
The GTVA Colossus is not a scout.
The GTVA Colossus is an anti Super-Destroyer Weapon. It is also quite adept at engaging vessels of Destroyer class and under. It should be used in that role where other vessels fail, rather than much else. And with subspace, it can reside fairly nicely by the node, right where it can get plenty of supplies from GTVA space, and jump where it's needed when the boys and girls need some heavy firepower.
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I agree. I was replying to this post
Too bad the colossus didn't get a chance to go through the knossos. It was busy cleaning up ntf while A1 and much smaller ships were in there. Colossus would have been able to hold it's own for a good long while in there and explore further.
from S-99. I guess I should have put the quote in.
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The Colossus does one thing and does it well: kill destroyers. since there's nothing like tracking for beams, it completely raped the NTCv Hawkwood, popped the NTD Repulse, the NTD Andronicus, NTCv Congreve, NTCv Danton. all at full hull strength. and it killed the SD Beast when disabled and at 66% hull
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(http://i42.tinypic.com/2mdi06b.jpg)
Ah, but the Knossos had been destroyed the one time we got to see either of those ships make the jump.
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Oh well, they both still fit. Not to mention, in the binary star system beyond knossos 2, all those sathani were using knossos 3 to get to the binary system, to get to the nebula...etc.
I wasn't thinking of treating the colossus as a replacement in the nebula, more like something much better than a flag ship destroyer. But, yes, too bad it didn't happen. The gtva would do it in a heart beat if the ntf conflict had been squelched pretty good before anybody went into the nebula (but unfortunately the colossus was busy).
The colossus was the gtva's most powerful weapon, they know nasty shivans are in the nebula, if the colossus hadn't been busy eating lunch (ntf destroyers), then it'd be in there.
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You've got to be careful not to overcommit the Colossus. Else the Shivans might start deploying the Sathanas heavily in an effort to draw out the Colossus in response. And we both know who wins out of the Colly and Sath (ceteris paribus).
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I think the main concern of the GTVA in the nebula was preservation of information. They would assume that an Orion against a Lucifer would result in the Orion being destroyed before it could fleet, especially if they were surprised. The Colossus, however, would be able to survive almost anything. Even if it was crippled, the Big C would survive at least long enough to inform the rest of the GTVA about the situation. As it was, the GTVA found a lot of useful information thanks to GammaDrax and the nebula. The discovery and the studying of the Knossos device and then further being able to make an insurrection into Shivan space brought back a lot of information.
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however, overcommiting the colossus would have the benefit of the shivans thinking there were multiple colossus class vessels roaming around which could make the shivans panic and possibly make mistakes. GTVA command hat a plan to throw the GVD Psamtik, GVD Toeris, and the GTD Aquatane at the sathasas, so the GTVA believed that 3 heavy hitting destroyers can take down the sathanas. if the stay in its rear firing arc, they have a chance.
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But if the Shivans had engaged the Colossus, they would very quickly have found that the Colossus does not have the firepower to take on a Sathanas toe-to-toe. They might even have started pairing Sathanas' juggs for mutual protection against SEAD and Strike operations against its flak cannons and forward beam turrets respectively.
And doesn't the Sath have a lone beam turret on its aft section, to deter aft attacks? An attack from its blind-spot only works when the Sath skipper decides not to slam the brakes and turn that beast around.
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I don't think you know how long it takes a Sathanas to turn around. It takes a very ****ing long time, and the ship attacking it can easily maneuver to counteract the Sathanas turning.
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Well, all it has to do is stay directly above the Sathanas.
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I don't think you know how long it takes a Sathanas to turn around. It takes a very ****ing long time, and the ship attacking it can easily maneuver to counteract the Sathanas turning.
Really? I don't think I can picture that being pulled off.
What's the Sathanas' rot time?
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Well, all it has to do is stay directly above the Sathanas.
The Sathanas can turn upwards too, you know. It doesn't really matter too much if you're above, below, to the side, etc as long as you aren't near the front.
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But if the Shivans had engaged the Colossus, they would very quickly have found that the Colossus does not have the firepower to take on a Sathanas toe-to-toe. They might even have started pairing Sathanas' juggs for mutual protection against SEAD and Strike operations against its flak cannons and forward beam turrets respectively.
And doesn't the Sath have a lone beam turret on its aft section, to deter aft attacks? An attack from its blind-spot only works when the Sath skipper decides not to slam the brakes and turn that beast around.
The way I see it, ships should typically take the same amount of time to turn as they do to move forward. So, a Sathanas would take about 10 minutes 30 seconds to make a complete 360 if they're at a stop. In actual maneuvering and not using AI stupidity, is it plausible that three destroyers outside your main weapon's firing arcs can pose enough of a threat that your best hope is to flee? Not to mention if the destroyers keep moving; it may be very difficult to get any of the three into the main beams' firing arcs, and exposing the rear beam may further jeopardize the Sathanas' fighter bay and engine systems.
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I don't think you know how long it takes a Sathanas to turn around. It takes a very ****ing long time, and the ship attacking it can easily maneuver to counteract the Sathanas turning.
Really? I don't think I can picture that being pulled off.
What's the Sathanas' rot time?
200 for all. But remember in High Noon, after the two juggernauts start circling, the Sathanas never faces the Colossus again and vice versa, they continue to have their sides facing towards each other.
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The way I see it, ships should typically take the same amount of time to turn as they do to move forward. So, a Sathanas would take about 10 minutes 30 seconds to make a complete 360 if they're at a stop. In actual maneuvering and not using AI stupidity, is it plausible that three destroyers outside your main weapon's firing arcs can pose enough of a threat that your best hope is to flee? Not to mention if the destroyers keep moving; it may be very difficult to get any of the three into the main beams' firing arcs, and exposing the rear beam may further jeopardize the Sathanas' fighter bay and engine systems.
Mmm, fair enough. I guess your best bet is to overwhelm the Juggernaught very quickly. E.g, jump your destroyers in, concurrent with your bomber squadron on strike + SEAD on beams/flak turrets, in addition to a fighter squadron or two to keep the jugg's fighters busy.
If the juggernaught tries to turn, have the destroyers keep in formation as best possible (since the Sath would have to make a 180 arc, rather than yawing), and you should have it covered.
-> Now the Sath's only option is to sortie fighters and bombers to occupy the destroyers, whilst calling in help. So therefore, a concurrent assault at another point in system would be necessary to draw heat off (preferably a crucial target to the Shivans, jump node, perhaps?)
It'd be damn heavy on fleet resources (would probably require the help of another fleet), but it would get the job done. The prospect of multiple Sathanii is really quite overwhelming, I don't believe there's anything but a Meson warhead that would be suitable.
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What's on the underside of a sathanas?
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a lot of blobs/AAA/flak i believe.
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Great way to drive up the economy in post fs2. That'd provide a lot of jobs.
A better way of giving jobs would be to make installations for trade, mining asteroids and perhaps shipbuilding and industry. That might be a reason why it took 20 years to build the Big 'C'- the GTVA simply didn't invest enough cash to get it done quicker because they had other things to focus on.
which could make the shivans panic and possibly make mistakes.
We don't really know if the Shivans feel anything. We do know that they made mistakes after the Lucy was KIA'd.
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A better way of giving jobs would be to make installations for trade, mining asteroids and perhaps shipbuilding and industry. That might be a reason why it took 20 years to build the Big 'C'- the GTVA simply didn't invest enough cash to get it done quicker because they had other things to focus on.
the 20 years it took could also stem from the reconstruction and the loss of the economic powerhouse of sol
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Yeah. It took them twenty years because they needed to build all the infrastructure and do all the research necessary first. I mean, they probably started off with a requirement as vague as "We need a ship that can defeat a Lucifer in one-on-one combat".
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About turning the sath... it takes a really long time. The collosus may have some trouble matching, but something smaller and more agile can evade/tank the beams while staying at the blind spot. Or, thats where alpha wing comes in. Kill the beam, colly comes in, pwns from blind spot.
But what I feel will be a better strategy would be 2 orions, both firing a beam at the single rear beam cannon. Likely the rear beam cannon will cripple or even destroy one orion. This will of course only work if the rest of the system is secure-ish and the sath can't call in the other 80 saths to come help.
As the sath turns the orion will move around it. The orion will be orbiting the sath, staying at its back and firing its beam cannon, cripping its engines. Then, it can slowly break the sath's tank.
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Yeah, until the Sath warps out.
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Yeah. It took them twenty years because they needed to build all the infrastructure and do all the research necessary first. I mean, they probably started off with a requirement as vague as "We need a ship that can defeat a Lucifer in one-on-one combat".
I thought the big issue with the Lucifer was that it was shielded. How can the Colossus deal with a shielded destroyer that was supposedly 'impervious' outside of subspace. You would think that the GTVA would further develop inter-subspace combat tactics instead of a super ship.
Unless beam cannons somehow overwhelm the Lucifer's shields. Beam cannons go a long way from laser turrets.
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My personal assumption (which is not backed by canon in any way) is that during the fighting, they got enough sensor readings of the Lucy to determine how much damage the shields can dissipate. End result was that they needed a weapon that could put out a given amount of damage over a given amount of time on a given surface area, and thus the BGreen was born.
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And prior to developing their beams, the only way they could possibly do damage on it with current weapons would probably cost entire capital ships to even leave a mark, much less actually destroy or disable the Lucy.
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This will of course only work if the rest of the system is secure-ish and the sath can't call in the other 80 saths to come help.
Which is why I suggested a concurrent operation at a crucial point for the Shivans in-system, like a jump-node.
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I thought the big issue with the Lucifer was that it was shielded. How can the Colossus deal with a shielded destroyer that was supposedly 'impervious' outside of subspace. You would think that the GTVA would further develop inter-subspace combat tactics instead of a super ship.
Unless beam cannons somehow overwhelm the Lucifer's shields. Beam cannons go a long way from laser turrets.
we seem to work on the "beams pierce shields" theory here
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What intrigues me more than anything else is where the GTVA got beam technology from. Not from the Shivans, obviously - the Lucifer split into half at the Sol end of the Delta Serpentis-Sol subspace corridor, and the Hades was blown up before any proper scans of its beam weapons were taken.
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Maybe they made sense of scans of the Lucifer's systems?
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dont rule out good ole human/vasudan ingenuity. for all e know, they could have been developing bems durring the great war. they might not have been fielded because they were too large, too expensive, very early in the testing phase and therefore not able to be put on a front-line warship
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And let's not forget that just knowing something is possible is a big step toward making it yourself. As soon as they saw the Lucifer's beams, they focused research on recreating the technology.
That, plus captured Shivan weapons and power systems and scans of the Lucy should do it.
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Remember that special forces mission where we had to scan ships? I believe the special forces themselves conducted A LOT of these missions. Especially judging from the events in silent threat (the canon one, not fan remake). It is apparent GTI had been busy.
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GTI captures beam tech from Shivans, incorporates beams into Hades but continue to develop them. GTA destroys Hades and halts the rebellion, sifts through what tech and projects they could find, destroys what they don't like, keeps what they do... including beams. GTA's recovery of GTI's beam development is incomplete, but enough to give them a starting point. Some years later, beam tech is matured enough to mount on GTVA ships. The only thing that raises an eyebrow story-wise, is that the Shivans decide to equip beams to their cap-ships across the board at the same time the GTVA does... AAA too. That's somewhat coincidental timing. Of course, the real reason was Volition wanting to spice things up visually, and perhaps find a way to make cap-ship engagements more interesting and less drawn-out.
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True, there is not much canon-wise about beams. It is just V realising they missed out big time by not having beams in FS1. But the shivvies did have a beam on the lucy. Maybe the first wave was rather weak and didn't have beams, just a scouting party.
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The SSL was a "missile" with a special trail, IIRC. Game engine limitations did not allow beams for FS1.
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It's not a missile. It's a laser shot hacked to look like a beam, with an invisible head and an extremely long tail.
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It was something not beamy, and that's what I remembered. :p
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It's a missile, because I was able to make one heat-seeking.
It was really cool.
The point though, is that it was meant to be a beam before they had the engine technology to make beams in-game. For reasons why the Shivans didn't use beams elsewhere until FS2, see http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=68969.0 and http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=67872.0 for theories.
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It's not a missile. It's a laser shot hacked to look like a beam, with an invisible head and an extremely long tail.
And you have to admit, it was clever. ;)
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After that, beams pierce shields (gameplay).
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The fact was, it was meant to be a beam. It is after all called shivian super laser or something. It isn't a beam in the editor because the engine didn't support beams till freespace 2. Else I'm sure it would be a beam. It was just V's half assed attempt to make a beam. And I gotta say, I couldn't tell in the cutscene.
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The fact was, it was meant to be a beam. It is after all called shivian super laser or something. It isn't a beam in the editor because the engine didn't support beams till freespace 2. Else I'm sure it would be a beam. It was just V's half assed attempt to make a beam. And I gotta say, I couldn't tell in the cutscene.
Considering the engine capabilities, it was a rather clever hack.
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And I gotta say, I couldn't tell in the cutscene.
It looked more or less like a huge ball of fire in the FS2 intro cutscene. :P
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The fact was, it was meant to be a beam. It is after all called shivian super laser or something. It isn't a beam in the editor because the engine didn't support beams till freespace 2. Else I'm sure it would be a beam. It was just V's half assed attempt to make a beam. And I gotta say, I couldn't tell in the cutscene.
If they managed to make something you couldn't tell from a beam without being told it wasn't one to begin with, how is :v: 's workaround a half assed one? :wtf:
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The lucifer in the fs2 intro video was obviously using beams. In fs1 when it takes down a destroyer or two with those really slow streak missile things. Those were also beams (clever fs1 beams, i have to differ on that). Beams might have been possible in fs1 if V could've possibly thought to do them differently.
Such as making beams really fast moving projectiles instead of an instant hit system like they are in fs2.
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i suspect :V: was keeping a lid on feature creep with the lucys beams, at the end of the day it was used in 1 possibly 2 mission(s) by 1 ship and would have probably taken significant coding to set up and the hack worked well enough so no crime imho and they had 2 years to get round to it for fs2
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That's exactly what they did. There was no reason to develop a whole new weapon type just for the Lucy alone; hacking something together using the existing system was probably the faster route.
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on a side note to me the slow march of the beams impacting the Galatea added to the dread of the moment because it gave you time to think about the oh **** of the moment
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Yay subluminal beams!!!
*agreed*.
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Yay subluminal beams!!!
*agreed*.
i think they were described as flux cannons so could have been just about anything
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Forces didn't have beam cannons in the beginning. For them to call the lucy's beams flux cannons in the first place is probably because that's what they called them before more general terminology like "beam" came into use.
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flux CAPACITOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRR!