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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: dragonsniper on June 18, 2009, 07:21:01 pm

Title: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: dragonsniper on June 18, 2009, 07:21:01 pm
What is it that made the Shivans want to kill everyone? Because after playing FS1 and 2 several times, you realize that they really do want to kill you? But what is it that drives them to do it?
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Droid803 on June 18, 2009, 07:25:55 pm
GTI said something bad about their mothers.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: The E on June 18, 2009, 07:32:05 pm
What is it that made the Shivans want to kill everyone? Because after playing FS1 and 2 several times, you realize that they really do want to kill you? But what is it that drives them to do it?

Really? Especially after FS2, I got the impression that the Shivans made a conscious decision to let both Terrans and Vasudans live....
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: voidSkipper on June 18, 2009, 07:50:34 pm
It's said several times during the campaign that the Shivans destroy races who use subspace to prevent those races from destroying other, less powerful races.

Like a natural defense mechanism of the universe.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 18, 2009, 08:20:02 pm
I don't know, I don't want to know, and even if I did, I wouldn't be telling. Not knowing is part of their charm.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: dragonsniper on June 18, 2009, 08:22:55 pm
Really? Especially after FS2, I got the impression that the Shivans made a conscious decision to let both Terrans and Vasudans live....
I guess in a way they did...

Not knowing is part of their charm.
True... I thought it would be kinda interesting to know...
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 18, 2009, 08:38:37 pm
They are PMSing.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on June 18, 2009, 09:59:12 pm
I was thinking that if one Shivan wants to kill the GTVA, the rest will follow.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: azile0 on June 18, 2009, 11:06:32 pm
Supernovae are the secret ingredient to Bosch Beer. Now that the Shivans have Bosch, the BBQ can go on back home.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: High Max on June 19, 2009, 01:03:52 am
;-)
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Blue Lion on June 19, 2009, 01:55:08 am
This is just another one of those threads that will turn into another debate of what the Shivans' motives and origins are, like that Capella one a week ago and the countless ones before that. Also like the "The one thing I didn't like about FS2 was how it handled the Sathanas" and the "Freespace 3: The Shivans" topics. They are all very similar topics.


Soooooooo?
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Dilmah G on June 19, 2009, 05:23:12 am
They are PMSing.

Definitely. 32 Year Cycles.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Killer Whale on June 19, 2009, 06:42:28 am
This is just another one of those threads that will turn into another debate of what the Shivans' motives and origins are, like that Capella one a week ago and the countless ones before that. Also like the "The one thing I didn't like about FS2 was how it handled the Sathanas" and the "Freespace 3: The Shivans" topics. They are all very similar topics.


Soooooooo?
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 19, 2009, 07:00:03 am
This is just another one of those threads that will turn into another debate of what the Shivans' motives and origins are, like that Capella one a week ago and the countless ones before that. Also like the "The one thing I didn't like about FS2 was how it handled the Sathanas" and the "Freespace 3: The Shivans" topics. They are all very similar topics.
Dude, why do you care, and why do you come in and try to derail every topic on this board?
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Dilmah G on June 19, 2009, 07:01:31 am
That wasn't de-railing, more stopping in tracks.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 19, 2009, 08:09:59 am
That wasn't de-railing, more stopping in tracks.

NO BRAKES, NO BRAKES...!
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: ssmit132 on June 19, 2009, 08:18:48 am
NO BRAKES, NO BRAKES...!

"You stupid boy! I thought you said you knew how to drive this thing!"
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on June 19, 2009, 09:58:28 am
This is just another one of those threads that will turn into another debate of what the Shivans' motives and origins are, like that Capella one a week ago and the countless ones before that. Also like the "The one thing I didn't like about FS2 was how it handled the Sathanas" and the "Freespace 3: The Shivans" topics. They are all very similar topics.
Dude, why do you care, and why do you come in and try to derail every topic on this board?
So who's been derailing here now, eh? :P

And yeah, the Shivans are... Mysteries... After making five theories myself (and throwing all of them overboard), I'll go with the "Cosmic Flying Dutchman". Meaning, nobody really knows or will ever know.

Although I kinda like this idea (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n68UwzUVquY) as well.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: wistler on June 19, 2009, 10:00:21 am
Supernovae are the secret ingredient to Bosch Beer. Now that the Shivans have Bosch, the BBQ can go on back home.

That would explain the marshmellows on the end of those Juggernaut spikes. crispy.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: IronBeer on June 19, 2009, 11:02:11 am
Well, seeing as we've never been able to speak with the Shivans in any canon campaign or mission (with the exception of... erm, "Return to Babel"? But even then we didn't have a translation), we can't just ask them nor can they tell us. The Shivans are meant to be inscrutable. It's what makes them alien and creepy.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: High Max on June 19, 2009, 03:11:40 pm
;-)
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 19, 2009, 03:14:59 pm
I don't post in many topics so your little comment is extremely exaggerated and false.
I can count about 8-10 derailed topics in the past month.

I don't care at all.
Then don't post.

I just can't help but say that I think it is silly and pointless to always make the same damn topic and it gets quite boring too.
Then don't post.

It never goes anywhere.
Then ignore it. Don't post.

How easily entertained you are.
Oh I know. Did you not read how the first 10 posts were devoted to not giving several ****s?
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: General Battuta on June 19, 2009, 03:20:21 pm
High Max, if you don't have anything  to add to the thread, just ignore it.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Jeff Vader on June 19, 2009, 03:22:30 pm
Use some logic.
You too. If you don't enjoy these threads, feel free to not read them / post in them.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Mobius on June 19, 2009, 03:22:52 pm
High Max, if you don't have anything  to add to the thread, just ignore it.

He does have a point, though... there are many threads that end with the same speculations about the Shivans...
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: General Battuta on June 19, 2009, 03:23:33 pm
If that speculation ever stops it means that new people have stopped entering the Freespace community and the existing members have lost interest in the questions. It is normal and healthy.

Moreover, the correct response to threads that you feel are meaningless is to disregard them.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Blue Lion on June 19, 2009, 03:53:12 pm
Both off topic and on topic....

Why do people care when others discuss a topic that will never really have an answer? 10 years past the release of the game, what answers really haven't been given?

Is it really that bad to let people speculate on silly sidetrack topics?

But on topic!

I always thought of the Shivans as being very animalistic (weird, I know). They attacked merely because we were in the way. They didn't think about resources or future advancement. They saw another species and tried to kill it.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Snail on June 19, 2009, 04:00:42 pm
I always thought of the Shivans as being very animalistic (weird, I know). They attacked merely because we were in the way. They didn't think about resources or future advancement. They saw another species and tried to kill it.
I always believed the opposite. I viewed the Shivans as scheming strategists rather than mindless animals. I found the way that they seemed to actually have some kind of incomprehensible logic behind their apparently mindless slaughter very intriguing.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Mobius on June 19, 2009, 04:03:16 pm
People think they're the classic bunch of mindless sheep because they blow up so easily during the game. In the universe, however, they're far deadlier... the Manticore that shot down that unlucky Hercules in the intro came out with very good maneuvers.

They would think the same of the Terrans or Vasudans if the series was played from the point of view of the Shivans.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Snail on June 19, 2009, 04:12:40 pm
It's all in the execution of the plot itself, really. In FS1 they're portrayed as a slightly more intelligent enemy, and in some cases they seem to be fallible like any other species (For example, they didn't know where Sol was and had to find the Terran homeworld by a lengthy process of elimination).

I think the fact that they're actually thinking and strategizing, but aren't communicating and kill without question makes them far more scary than the more common mindless space bugs.

In FS2 they seem more like the horde of mindless space spiders IMO.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: General Battuta on June 19, 2009, 04:14:36 pm
People think they're the classic bunch of mindless sheep because they blow up so easily during the game. In the universe, however, they're far deadlier... the Manticore that shot down that unlucky Hercules in the intro came out with very good maneuvers.

They would think the same of the Terrans or Vasudans if the series was played from the point of view of the Shivans.

Who are 'people'?

Who are 'they'?
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Snail on June 19, 2009, 04:25:26 pm
Ugh. Split/lock please?
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Jeff Vader on June 19, 2009, 04:32:09 pm
Too tricky. There are on-topic, sort-of-on-topic and off-topic posts all mixed up. Can't be arsed. Would rather go to sleep.

/me slaps all the participants of this thread around a bit with a large... well, you know.

One more off-topic post and there will be lockage.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Blue Lion on June 19, 2009, 08:16:25 pm
Animals can still use strategy.

I was kinda leaning on the whole "we're gonna come and kill you and your entire species"

They don't appear to be concerned with holding planets or resources.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Rhymes on June 19, 2009, 08:37:44 pm
In FS2 they seem more like the horde of mindless space spiders IMO.

Funny, I never got the feeling that they were mindless, but maybe you got that feeling because the Shivans didn't get as far into GTVA space as they did the first time.

I felt more like they were actually sending a message instead of just trying to destroy.  The fleet of Sathanes and the supernova were sort of like saying (at least to me) "Don't **** with us, because we WILL kick your ass."

But that's just me.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: William Wolfen on June 19, 2009, 09:32:44 pm

Funny, I never got the feeling that they were mindless, but maybe you got that feeling because the Shivans didn't get as far into GTVA space as they did the first time.

I felt more like they were actually sending a message instead of just trying to destroy.  The fleet of Sathanes and the supernova were sort of like saying (at least to me) "Don't **** with us, because we WILL kick your ass."

But that's just me.

After having played Blue Planet, I feel that this sort of portrayal is very good.  I rather liked the Shivans as the great cosmic destroyers, who tend to go a little overboard on protecting the balance in the Universe.  I would go into more detail, but I wouldn't want to spoil it for anybody who hasnt yet played Blue Planet.  For those who have, I'm sure that what I've said will make plenty of sense, including the tie in between the quoted post and how they handled the Terrans and Vasudans in FS1 and FS2.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Mobius on June 19, 2009, 09:40:24 pm
They don't appear to be concerned with holding planets or resources.

A well organized expeditionary force doesn't have to do that. Keep in mind that we don't know anything about the Shivans' endurance.

The Taranis had to resupply after who knows how many sorties.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: High Max on June 19, 2009, 09:41:46 pm
;-)
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Killer Whale on June 20, 2009, 01:14:22 am
The shivans have a randomiser which spits out all sorts of purposes at the click of a giant claw lever with white space swords and a particular beam cannon. The first was "Kill their homeworlds and them while your at it", the second was "supernova their homeworld". Who knows maybe next time it will be "Land on all their ships and kill em' all" or "have a friendly BBQ with free food that has been superheated and turned to plasma"

"Can someone pass me a hotdog please"
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/Weltenreiter/Smileys/Overkill.gif)
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Blue Lion on June 20, 2009, 02:40:20 am
They don't appear to be concerned with holding planets or resources.

A well organized expeditionary force doesn't have to do that. Keep in mind that we don't know anything about the Shivans' endurance.

The Taranis had to resupply after who knows how many sorties.

Even the second invasion didn't seem interested in it.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 20, 2009, 03:47:22 am
The lack of concern with planets or resources is quite possibly a red herring. The Shivans appear to be operating under plans that are too short-term in scope for either of those things to be valuable; exploiting either would require developing infrastructure and the like, which takes time.

The presumable ultimate Shivan plan in FS1, involving the glassing of every world in Terran-Vasudan space, would take perhaps six months. Unless they were prepared with prefabricated factories, mines, and a large noncombat fleet just laying around, this isn't really enough time; furthermore the Shivans didn't see a need to reinforce their existing expedition, although there was apparently a source of supply somewhere beyond Ross 128. (Which makes what happened to said source one of the great unacknowledged mysteries of FreeSpace.)

The ultimate Shivan plan of FS2, which we saw executed in the Capella supernova (assuming the supernova was intended) and whatever caused it, is even shorter than that in scope.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on June 20, 2009, 05:49:06 am
(Which makes what happened to said source one of the great unacknowledged mysteries of FreeSpace.)

Wasn't that covered in Blue Planet?
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Killer Whale on June 20, 2009, 06:26:01 am
The presumable ultimate Shivan plan in FS1, involving the glassing of every world in Terran-Vasudan space, would take perhaps six months. Unless they were prepared with prefabricated factories, mines, and a large noncombat fleet just laying around, this isn't really enough time; furthermore the Shivans didn't see a need to reinforce their existing expedition, although there was apparently a source of supply somewhere beyond Ross 128. (Which makes what happened to said source one of the great unacknowledged mysteries of FreeSpace.)
I thought they'd only want to glass the two equally most important planets, Earth and Vasuda Prime. That would take considerably shorter time. The rest may supposedly be able to wipe out slowly and easily.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Darius on June 20, 2009, 08:45:37 am
(Which makes what happened to said source one of the great unacknowledged mysteries of FreeSpace.)

Wasn't that covered in Blue Planet?

Was it? If it was, then in a totally non-canon way. :P
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on June 20, 2009, 10:29:32 am
I think I'm referring to the mission titled "Enter the Dragon" or something like that.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Rodo on June 20, 2009, 10:32:40 am
shivans are like pigeons... they are mean, just plain mean and they are trying to conquer the entire world!
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on June 20, 2009, 10:38:32 am
I thought they were more like vultures.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: General Battuta on June 20, 2009, 11:55:51 am
I think I'm referring to the mission titled "Enter the Dragon" or something like that.

I think you're referring to the
Spoiler:
existence of the Knossos in N362
, beyond Ross 128.

As Darius said, totally non-canon.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Snail on June 20, 2009, 01:12:24 pm
You're likening the Shivans to pigeons and vultures?
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Rodo on June 20, 2009, 01:19:48 pm
pigeons... really mean pigeons that travel in subspace.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: High Max on June 20, 2009, 01:30:46 pm
;-)
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Mongoose on June 20, 2009, 01:40:27 pm
*Mongoose turns on High Max's sarcasm detector* :p
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Snail on June 20, 2009, 01:52:41 pm
No, he has a significant point. Someone called them vultures. Vultures prey on the weak and wounded...
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: wistler on June 20, 2009, 02:34:31 pm
There much more like pigeons, they eat bread and walk with a limp.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Blue Lion on June 20, 2009, 02:59:57 pm
No, he has a significant point. Someone called them vultures. Vultures prey on the weak and wounded...

I thought that was what they did?
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Snail on June 20, 2009, 03:36:43 pm
No, he has a significant point. Someone called them vultures. Vultures prey on the weak and wounded...

I thought that was what they did?
wat
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Blue Lion on June 20, 2009, 05:17:59 pm
Prey on the weak and wounded
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Snail on June 20, 2009, 05:46:04 pm
Since when did they bloody do that?
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Kie99 on June 20, 2009, 05:58:20 pm
The enemies we know the Shivans have fought are weak in comparison to the Shivans.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: eliex on June 20, 2009, 06:10:51 pm
Yes, partially.
The Ancient race, which dominated all the other races they encountered were defeated by the Shivans proving them weaker. From what we know, only the Terran and Vasudan race have actually managed to achieve major victories against the Shivans they encountered but suffered heavily because of that.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Blue Lion on June 20, 2009, 06:27:29 pm
Since when did they bloody do that?

I'm pretty sure we got our asses handed to us by the Shivans. We got a sucker punch against their big ship in the first one and the second invasion was no contest. Or do you think we could have handled 80 Sathanas?
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on June 20, 2009, 07:56:34 pm
We probably could if we take them from behind. :drevil:

Fighter and bomber wings, as well as the rear-facing LRed all have to be taken into account, though, not to mention that the Shivans might throw in a cruiser or corvette to assist.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: ssmit132 on June 20, 2009, 09:40:46 pm
Not the 'take the Sathanas from behind' card - I thought there were reasons that wouldn't work? You've got three, but the Shivans might just wise up and not allow that to happen.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Whitelight on June 20, 2009, 10:32:16 pm
They attacked only those who have the technology to enter subspace..

So then it would be my take it was seen as a threat and was subdued.

As for the Capella supernova, i`m at a loss to explain that corse of action, I could speculate, but that is all.

Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: eliex on June 20, 2009, 11:14:04 pm
I found it hard to believe that the Shivans decided to leave the first Sathanas without any form of support aside from fighters and bombers carried within it's hangar. Even if there were 79 other such ships around rendering the ship itself expendable, surely they would consider the amount of lives aboard the juggernaut even for a hive.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: General Battuta on June 20, 2009, 11:19:55 pm
It's possible there were a lot more than 79.

We really have no idea of the scale or extent of the Shivan entity, whatever it may be. There could be millions of Sathani. On the cosmic scale, they're not particularly large or difficult to produce, especially using more sophisticated technology (von Neumann assemblers and whatnot.)

Alternatively, that one Sathanas might have just been lost and lonely.  :(
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Sololop on June 20, 2009, 11:23:20 pm
Maybe it was a drone, sent to soften up the defenses first. Surely the Shivans can construct enough drone fighter/bombers to occupy it. Also their AI may and probably would be much more sophisticated than ours.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Killer Whale on June 20, 2009, 11:38:47 pm
er... remember that demon destroyer in bearbaiting? Certainly there wasn't just the Sathanas
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Retsof on June 20, 2009, 11:45:28 pm
Still, the use of drones would explain the difference in tactics.  Perhaps it was an entire drone fleet.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Killer Whale on June 20, 2009, 11:52:12 pm
Yay, so all we have to do is storm the sathanas or whatever other ships they have with a squad of marines and bye bye shivan armada. I'm pretty sure the armada was made of shivans, it would make the game a bit less... epic. Unless, going on the "shivans are built by another race" theme, all the shivans are drones. Also note that AI is probably not that much less expensive, only lives get saved, not mountains of money so you can make ten times more.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Dilmah G on June 21, 2009, 12:18:29 am
Maybe it was a drone, sent to soften up the defenses first. Surely the Shivans can construct enough drone fighter/bombers to occupy it. Also their AI may and probably would be much more sophisticated than ours.
Didn't Snipes say they bagged some live Shivans capturing those maras?
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: High Max on June 21, 2009, 12:55:48 am
;-)
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Dilmah G on June 21, 2009, 01:39:37 am
What it sounds like you're doing in the beginning there is thinking like maybe a troubled GTVA pilot might, ignore/block out the bigger picture so he can concentrate on the task at hand and thus not become overwhelmed. Or well, that's what it reminded me of.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Jeff Vader on June 21, 2009, 02:21:30 am
Didn't Snipes say they bagged some live Shivans capturing those maras?
It was in the "Command Briefing" cutscene in FS1:

"In the interests of learning more about the slippery bastards we're going to attempt something bold. The capture of the Taranis. If this goes off it will give us the opportunity to examine Shivan technology up close, and bag a few live Shivans in the process."
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on June 21, 2009, 02:24:50 am
That was 32 years ago. Didn't research on Shivan biology stop with the unveiling of the GTD Hades in 2336?
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: eliex on June 21, 2009, 02:26:11 am
Yes, after the GTI Rebellion most, if not all Shivan specimens were destroyed leaving the GTVA quite clueless about Shivan organisms themselves.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: ssmit132 on June 21, 2009, 02:35:11 am
That was a waste, I mean, even if they thought that studying the captured Shivans was inhumane, they should have taken that opportunity to learn about them. Then they may not be so enigmatic (well, at least physically).
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Dilmah G on June 21, 2009, 02:42:02 am
Yeah. Why would anyone who had served in the GTA/GTVA during the Great War authorise that. I don't give a ****ing **** wether it's inhumane or not, who knows if they even feel pain?
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Blue Lion on June 21, 2009, 02:46:06 am
That was probably one of the first tests
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Mongoose on June 21, 2009, 03:04:29 am
If SOC managed to capture Shivan fighters, as we know they did, and if GTVI engineers poked through and upgraded said fighters, as we know they did, it stands to reason that the GTVI is in possession of at least four Shivans, dead or alive. :p
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Dilmah G on June 21, 2009, 03:12:47 am
That was probably one of the first tests
It's ALWAYS the first test :P

If SOC managed to capture Shivan fighters, as we know they did, and if GTVI engineers poked through and upgraded said fighters, as we know they did, it stands to reason that the GTVI is in possession of at least four Shivans, dead or alive. :p

Unless they believed it inhumane and threw them out into space due to some intervention by a 24th Century version of Amnesty International. :P
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Blue Lion on June 21, 2009, 03:44:36 am
Or if they captured unused fighters
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Dilmah G on June 21, 2009, 03:50:12 am
Unused fighters? Wouldn't they have to get inside a fighterbay for that to happen? Since we didn't see any Enter the Dragon-esque depots in FS2.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Blue Lion on June 21, 2009, 03:52:53 am
Doesn't mean they didn't happen.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 21, 2009, 05:20:23 am
Just makes it extremely unlikely.

Even the fighter in Enter the Dragon is actually manned, as are the others at the depot.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Killer Whale on June 22, 2009, 03:41:22 am
They may have blasted beyond recognition or a least beyond usefullness during the taking of the fighters. Or maybe they commit suicide before their capturers can get them.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: Mikes on June 22, 2009, 03:53:58 am
It's said several times during the campaign that the Shivans destroy races who use subspace to prevent those races from destroying other, less powerful races.

Like a natural defense mechanism of the universe.

That has been pure speculation of other races who "observed their behavior".
But that "observed effect" may as well be a coincidence and may have nothing to do with "why" the Shivans do what they do.

The mystery is part of their charm ;)
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: eliex on June 22, 2009, 04:20:13 am
They may have blasted beyond recognition or a least beyond usefullness during the taking of the fighters. Or maybe they commit suicide before their capturers can get them.

If they were manned, by would not have surrendered to the capture team in any case being depicted as a race that doesn't care much for individual losses especially one so insignificant as a pilot of a basic mara.
Title: Re: What drives the Shivans so hard?
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 22, 2009, 05:16:25 am
They may have blasted beyond recognition or a least beyond usefullness during the taking of the fighters. Or maybe they commit suicide before their capturers can get them.

Doubtful; it takes an awful lot more to destroy a body completely then it does to kill it. Even assuming the Shivans have cybernetically redundant-ified themselves greatly, we still saw one go down long enough to be secured by a sharp capture team in Hallfight (and that's assuming it wasn't actually killed, which we can't really prove one way or the other).

The suicide theory has greater merit, but I think it's noteable that they say "all experimentation on live subjects", not "all experimentation". The Shivans weren't removed from the picture entirely until after GTI was, so it's almost certain that the GTVA has intimate knowledge of their physiology. What they know may not be terribly useful in determining how a live Shivan behaves, but they're probably pretty certain on how to best kill and incapacite them.