Hard Light Productions Forums

Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: Hades on January 24, 2011, 08:14:22 pm

Title: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Hades on January 24, 2011, 08:14:22 pm
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/deimostop.png)
Started on a new Deimos, this is the top part in the front with the two multiparts. not started on the bottom half and the top have is not completed.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Kolgena on January 24, 2011, 08:36:22 pm
Be careful not to make it as chunky as the Medusa or your cargo container. This thing has a fair bit of vasudan influence.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Rampage on January 24, 2011, 08:38:59 pm
Suggestion: Please do the Argo.  Pretty please. :nervous:
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Droid803 on January 24, 2011, 08:42:52 pm
Someone made an Argo. Just that noone volunteered to map it yet or something.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on January 24, 2011, 08:46:18 pm
THere are thee new models that I know of, Firecrack's, Oddgrim's, and Enoich's (which, last I heard, peterv was handling, will ask him about it before I start on my own argo), before the Argo there's the new Karuna I promised BP, a new ursa and new watchdog/cerberus models, but I still need to completely finish the Medusa and TTC 1 meshes before those.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Rodo on January 24, 2011, 08:53:03 pm
That looks quite good already.

Thanks for working on this :yes:
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on January 24, 2011, 09:07:20 pm
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/deimostop2.png)
changed the front a little after some talk from Zacam
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Kolgena on January 24, 2011, 09:08:41 pm
It appears we lost a turret mount.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on January 24, 2011, 09:09:17 pm
No, they were just moved to make mirroring easier.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Kolgena on January 24, 2011, 09:09:53 pm
Cool.

So, what's the big hole for?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on January 24, 2011, 09:10:35 pm
To place one of the mountings for one of the turrets due to the slope on that part of the hull which makes it necessary.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Kolgena on January 24, 2011, 09:15:32 pm
Oh,

/petition to make a teensy bit more room for the forward beams, so that TerSlashes don't have to be so tiny to prevent clipping.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on January 24, 2011, 09:40:59 pm
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/frontdeimosbeam.png)
Of course the beams are going to have bigger turrets, these are the ones on the front. May change them up a bit, but yeah. Used the old high-poly model so you can get an idea of how they'd connect to the hull.

The terslashes were upscaled a bit since the last screenshots, and they're probably going to stay that size :p
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Droid803 on January 24, 2011, 10:38:16 pm
Make sure not the entire thing is actually turret though, or it'll be blown off supar-ez.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Nohiki on January 24, 2011, 11:15:08 pm
Make sure not the entire thing is actually turret though, or it'll be blown off supar-ez.
I wouldn't be so sure about this. It would make the beams killable from side which is kinda huge change.

Otherwise this looks very good, but i thought this one is one of the least that needed and upgrade ?_?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Kolgena on January 24, 2011, 11:59:29 pm
Er, you just agreed with him. Maybe a fix is to only have the tip of the barrel be the turret?

It looks good. I'd shorten the tubular elements just a bit, since it kinda suggests a non-slash beam turret.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: SypheDMar on January 25, 2011, 12:03:50 am
It's kinda too late to suggest turret be placed similar to retail position, right?

Looks great, by the way.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Droid803 on January 25, 2011, 12:07:34 am
It's kinda too late to suggest turret be placed similar to retail position, right?

Wat, not it just started...

But yeah, watch out for the third broadside turret (counting from the front).
The current MediaVPs model has it on the "bulge", whereas in retail is on the thrid panel on the side, like the first two. It doesn't affect turret coverage in any way, though it WILL fudge with multi.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Nohiki on January 25, 2011, 12:11:12 am
Whoops, eyes failed me at 5 AM  :lol: Sorry
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Mura on January 25, 2011, 01:03:21 am
Watch out, please do not add details or move stuff around that would break multi, please... that is, if your model gets picked up for next mvps
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: MatthTheGeek on January 25, 2011, 01:06:09 am
I see you have good judgement for picking up ships that hasn't been HTLed yet. You should redo the Colossus or the Artemis next.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Snail on January 25, 2011, 01:33:25 am
Hades u r a hero
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Fury on January 25, 2011, 01:37:52 am
Watch out, please do not add details or move stuff around that would break multi, please... that is, if your model gets picked up for next mvps
Avoiding this is wrong way to solve the problem. Either everyone plays retail, or everyone plays same version of mediavps. No mixing allowed.

Disallowing artistic freedom or alterations based on other logical and sound reasons just because of multi compatibility is silly. Particularly because this compatibility issue only arises if retail and mvp assets are allowed to be mixed in same multi game.

I see you have good judgement for picking up ships that hasn't been HTLed yet. You should redo the Colossus or the Artemis next.
Bite it. You want other ships redone? Fine, do them yourself. Let other people to work on models they like or want to work on. If Hades wants to do a particular ship that is his choice and his contribution is appreciated if the end result is better than the currently used model, regardless of quality of current model compared to others.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Shade on January 25, 2011, 01:47:13 am
Quote
Particularly because this compatibility issue only arises if retail and mvp assets are allowed to be mixed in same multi game.

Fury, you're wrong in this. Major changes such as deimos front beams suddenly being killable from the side will still affect balance in a number of multi missions even if everyone is using mediaVPs. Single player missions as well for that matter, but I'm not part of a project maintaining those so that's less of a concern for me. Anyway, I've already made a thread explaining this issue in more detail elsewhere on this forum, so I won't get into it further here. And whether the FSU chooses to pay any heed to our concerns is, of course, entirely your own decision.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Fury on January 25, 2011, 01:56:11 am
I thought the subject at hand was position of turrets, not them being exposed from side. The latter would in fact also affect single-player mission balance if subsytems like turrets can be damaged from wider angle.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Shade on January 25, 2011, 01:58:38 am
Position is also an issue, as explained in the thread on the subject. But yes, only a serious one in mixed games. But them being killable from the side would be a really huge issue.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Black Wolf on January 25, 2011, 02:53:12 am
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/frontdeimosbeam.png)
Of course the beams are going to have bigger turrets, these are the ones on the front. May change them up a bit, but yeah. Used the old high-poly model so you can get an idea of how they'd connect to the hull.

The terslashes were upscaled a bit since the last screenshots, and they're probably going to stay that size :p

No.

No no no.

This will affect the balance on every single mission that uses a Deimos against capital ships, hostile or friendly, and it will affect it a lot. If you want big turret bases, make them part of the hull and putt little nipples in the middle, but the turrets have to stay small, and the hit-arcs have to stay restricted to the front.

This isn't an artistic or aesthetic issue. This is a game balance issue. And please remember, not to sound arrogant or anything, but I have been messing around with FRED and balancing missions for 10 years or so, and I think that gives me at least a degree of authority in this subject. Those turrets are mission changers, I guarantee it.

For reference, think about how easy itis to take out the big giant BGreen on the Hecate, vs. the current deimos' tiny little buttons...
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Mars on January 25, 2011, 03:36:29 am
Why is everyone assuming the entire tube is a turret?

I suspect the very tip is a turret. The placement of the beams looks to be exactly the same.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on January 25, 2011, 03:43:55 am
Why is everyone assuming the entire tube is a turret?

I suspect the very tip is a turret. The placement of the beams looks to be exactly the same.

The tips are already much bigger than the current beam turrets, and will hence be more easily aimed at and destroyed. While it does simply make sense to have a bigger turret for beams than for lasers, this will unbalance existing missions.

[...] before the Argo there's the new Karuna I promised BP [...]

Is the Karuna not hi-poly enough yet? And hasn't Esarai been cleaning up and retexturing the current one?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Nemesis6 on January 25, 2011, 06:49:29 am
Watch out, please do not add details or move stuff around that would break multi, please... that is, if your model gets picked up for next mvps

I wasn't aware anyone really played multiplayer -- I always ran into stuff like my build not being compatible, very big lag issues, and so on.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Dragon on January 25, 2011, 07:06:39 am
I think that actual radius of beam turrets should fit retail configuration, regardless of how silly it sometimes looks.
In general, the new Deimos looks promising, old HTL was really outdated.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on January 25, 2011, 07:09:27 am
Christ, only the top is the turret, the rest is the base. Thanks for jumping the gun and assuming I don't know having it shootable from the side could break things.

[...] before the Argo there's the new Karuna I promised BP [...]

Is the Karuna not hi-poly enough yet? And hasn't Esarai been cleaning up and retexturing the current one?
The Karuna before Esarai cleanup has a staggering amount of triangles, over 50000, with a huge lack of any detail to speak of. Esarai is just going through, cleaning it up best as he can and uvmapping it. He and Battuta both think it is a good idea for me to upgrade the Karuna, so yeah.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: peterv on January 25, 2011, 10:55:18 am
Very nice approach for the beams (yeah OK beam - bases) :yes:

On a side note, Eniochs Argo is ~ 70% UV mapped and will probably be finished by next week.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Mars on January 25, 2011, 01:49:15 pm
I personally think you're amazing for doing the Deimos.

Also, when you do the Karuna, please help that poor fighterbay.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on January 25, 2011, 02:18:20 pm
Most definitely. The fighterbay, bridge, and engine parts have always needed some remodeling the most.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Commander Zane on January 25, 2011, 04:29:32 pm
Like the current progress a lot, the beam cannons look sweet, and I'm eager to see what you do with the Ursa. :D
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Goblix on January 25, 2011, 04:42:33 pm
Wow, looking great so far Hades! I'm loving the way the beam turrets are looking, the original HTL model always felt a bit bare.

I was just thinking earlier today that the Deimos really needed a face lift, it always was my favorite ship.

Keep up the good work man. :)
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Thaeris on January 25, 2011, 08:32:39 pm
When the bloody Hell did the Deimos ever have a fighter bay?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Qent on January 25, 2011, 08:35:02 pm
I personally think you're amazing for doing the Deimos.

Also, when you do the Karuna, please help that poor fighterbay.

Most definitely. The fighterbay, bridge, and engine parts have always needed some remodeling the most.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on January 25, 2011, 09:31:22 pm
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/deimos2.png)
Still need to finish up the top part let alone the newly added part. The turrets are from my Medusa and are place holders, probably.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Kolgena on January 25, 2011, 11:02:47 pm
Hmm. I think it's starting to look a bit too round and poofy, but I'm probably just too used to an angular harder looking deimos.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: T-LoW on January 26, 2011, 03:00:50 am
I like the goggles :yes:
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on January 26, 2011, 03:08:59 am
Hmm. I think it's starting to look a bit too round and poofy, but I'm probably just too used to an angular harder looking deimos.

Yeah, this.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Rodo on January 26, 2011, 09:08:32 am
No, wait... it's supposed to look like that, after all they are the result of "a new era of ship desing", they are supposed to look different that any other great war ship.

And I like the poofy look :p
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Nyctaeus on January 26, 2011, 09:19:53 am
Too round. Stop looking at Strattcom's Fleetpack and start at standard Deimos :P. Your model lost character and feeling of Deimos, but I like greebles and other details of your model.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: MatthTheGeek on January 26, 2011, 11:15:21 am
It's supposed to be somewhat round. Zod inspiration and all. While it does feel a tad oversmoothed, I do like the direction it's going.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Nohiki on January 26, 2011, 11:40:49 am
I thought Vasudans designed reactor and other stuff inside, not the looks. Anyway i think that deimos should have sharp edges, but i'm waiting to see it as whole, because Hades demonstrated magic abilities with detailing.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: rscaper1070 on January 26, 2011, 11:42:13 am
I like it rounded but the middle segment should be straightened out to avoid the insect larva look.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Galemp on January 26, 2011, 01:22:24 pm
I think I prefer rounded surfaces but knife-edge corners.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: The E on January 26, 2011, 01:46:50 pm
I think I prefer seeing what Hades can come up with given more time to work on this.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Droid803 on January 26, 2011, 04:13:15 pm
Deimos is RoundBrick.
It looks fine IMO, though maybe a few of the edges could stand to be de-smoothed.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Trivial Psychic on January 26, 2011, 06:20:48 pm
Something else you may want to look into... if you're up for it.  The Deimos seen on the FS2 box cover art, has side-mounted turrets, which were not included for the ingame model due to engine limitations.  Now these limitations have been overcome (though I believe its a bit awkward to set up) we can now have non-dorsal and non-ventral multi-part turrets.  Therefore, you may also want to make a version mounting these turrets, as perhaps an alternate prototype version that was deemed over-armed or something and didn't get produced.  Campaigners could make use of it.  It's your project though.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on January 26, 2011, 07:27:35 pm
Definitely will do that, good idea.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Ravenholme on January 26, 2011, 07:35:32 pm
Something else you may want to look into... if you're up for it.  The Deimos seen on the FS2 box cover art, has side-mounted turrets, which were not included for the ingame model due to engine limitations.  Now these limitations have been overcome (though I believe its a bit awkward to set up) we can now have non-dorsal and non-ventral multi-part turrets.  Therefore, you may also want to make a version mounting these turrets, as perhaps an alternate prototype version that was deemed over-armed or something and didn't get produced.  Campaigners could make use of it.  It's your project though.

Warship? Over-armed? MADNESS!

Well, unless we pull a fast one about them putting too much strain on the reactors.

Oh, looks good as usual Hades. And as usual, the "MUST BE EXACTLY LIKE RETAIL WITH MORE POLIES" crowd is getting on my nerves. We have the capacity to use those extra polies to do something better than a simple upgrade people, so why don't we use this wonderful opportunity? Plus, I will also point out that Hades' Medusa is excellent, despite the initial naysayers, so why don't we all stand back and let the man work?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: esarai on January 26, 2011, 08:28:32 pm
Well said.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on January 27, 2011, 01:51:48 am
The problem about those side turrets here is that they are big, very visible multiparts. Which wasn't the case of the Lucy's side bombardment beams.
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/deimosfront.png)
Not... really. The Lucifer's bombardment beams' radius is about that of a Fenris' height.

As for the side guns, I might change the function up a but (make them have large, single barrels for heavier guns, missile pods, etc)

I haven't gotten to the chingine (chin engine) yet, still want to finish up the rest a bit more first.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Mars on January 27, 2011, 01:54:10 am
I spy an intake looking thing on front?

I like the smooth approach - it's an advanced brick.  :)
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on January 27, 2011, 01:55:45 am
Wasn't really meant to be an intake so much as it was meant to make the front flow into the middle part better. I Also forgot to mention, the side multiparts had to be smaller than the top or bottom ones because they wouldn't have fit on the sides. Would have been the same way with the other, MVP Deimos.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Rodo on January 27, 2011, 09:47:46 am
Indeed, the turrets look cool, that's for sure, but they weren't there before... it will get confusing.
I love this model so far, even WITH turrets, but I do concur on the fact that those should not be there for the MVP version.

Keep going Hades, I'm dying to see what will the second and third engine look like :yes:
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Zacam on January 27, 2011, 03:38:04 pm
Any arguments or conversations about how or what anybody should do with PCS2 or etc has been split, feel free to continue it in the split thread (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=74211.0) and let's just keep this topic ON topic about the models progress, not debates on how it should or shouldn't be handled.

Thanks.

My only issues with the side turrets is that it means the nameplate will have to be re-positioned elsewhere. Which isn't really a problem per-se, it might look better in the back like the Hecate has.

Also, the box art has the side/underbelly of the front as a flat surface. The MediaVP one has a series of 3 wedge shapes, yours is completely recessed. Where and how will that affect the placement of the weapons going there?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 27, 2011, 03:49:13 pm
I'd sort of prefer going back to the unbroken side armor belt of the original Deimos rather than keeping the segmented look the older hi-poly version had.  This would make it look more bricklike without actually changing the basic shape of the model. There any chance for that?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on January 27, 2011, 03:54:34 pm
The nameplate IS still in the same general area, on the thing between the two side turrets.

Quote
Also, the box art has the side/underbelly of the front as a flat surface. The MediaVP one has a series of 3 wedge shapes, yours is completely recessed. Where and how will that affect the placement of the weapons going there?
It won't affect it any differently than before.

I'd sort of prefer going back to the unbroken side armor belt of the original Deimos rather than keeping the segmented look the older hi-poly version had.  This would make it look more bricklike without actually changing the basic shape of the model. There any chance for that?
Probably, was planning on playing with that part after thinking about it some today.

EDIT: Actually, I honestly don't like brickships and I'd rather go with what looks best, so we'll see.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Trivial Psychic on January 27, 2011, 06:00:08 pm
I'm reposting this here, since it was originally in the full thread and because its primary content isn't related to the split.

I do have another suggestion however, but it could be more of a can of worms... though less in terms of overt aesthetics.  My suggestion comes down to visual effects, borrowing a technique that so far I've only seen used on the Boadicea... subsystem debris.  When for example, a turret is destroyed on a normal ship, there's an explosion, some briefly rendered generic debris chunks that disappear almost immediately, and then you see the destroyed model of the turret (if one was included).  Including subsystem debris means that visible chunks of the destroyed submodel will be spawned from the explosion that actually look like they used to be part of it, and they won't disappear after a second or two.  The Boadicea used this so that chunks of the asteroid surface could be blown away.  The only thing that might need some source code additions would be to give enough outward momentum to the debris, as on the Boadicea they don't fly away at any great pace.  The drawbacks to using this (that I know of) are down to the number of polys... though a more informed modeler/coder might have more reasons to shoot down this suggestion.

RGA's reply:
One issue with debris is how it effects balance. Imagine that a ship has added debris for the cool factor, but it basically becomes giant shrapnel hurling through space and impacting other ships, significantly damaging them.

Subsystem debris is relatively small, but the potential is still there.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Droid803 on January 27, 2011, 06:45:26 pm
I'd avoid putting actual "bases" on the hull for the side turrets, seeing as the best way to handle them would be to have a table-side thing that vanishes them entirely. (Assuming this becomes possible at some point).

Then you can have extra turrets easily available through table editing that doesn't visually throw anyone off.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Luis Dias on January 27, 2011, 08:42:48 pm
Apart from the technicalities, I find this model not so much better than the original as of yet. Perhaps if you try to think a little outside the "box" that the Deimos currently is... the major gripe I have with the current mediaVPS model is that it's "HTL'd" but not so much so, it still feels faceted. It still feels like a cheap CGI model from the nineties, quake 2 style.

This model simply takes that approach and smoothes it a little bit. Not enough of a change to get my emotions firing.

But please go on, it's a very entertaining endeavour, and always a challenge to be met.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 27, 2011, 11:01:40 pm
Probably, was planning on playing with that part after thinking about it some today.

EDIT: Actually, I honestly don't like brickships and I'd rather go with what looks best, so we'll see.

The reason I'd prefer is that, basically, an unbroken armor belt gives a much greater impression of durability and power, whereas the segmented instead gives the impression that Terran ship designers are morons who introduce massive vulnerabilities into the design because they can. Since this is arguably the best entry in the field of Terran ship design in FS2, it doesn't really fit. If we were discussing the Hecate, I'd be all for making it look like it was designed by fools because it probably was.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on January 28, 2011, 07:07:39 am
Apart from the technicalities, I find this model not so much better than the original as of yet. Perhaps if you try to think a little outside the "box" that the Deimos currently is... the major gripe I have with the current mediaVPS model is that it's "HTL'd" but not so much so, it still feels faceted. It still feels like a cheap CGI model from the nineties, quake 2 style.

This model simply takes that approach and smoothes it a little bit. Not enough of a change to get my emotions firing.

But please go on, it's a very entertaining endeavour, and always a challenge to be met.
Yeah, many people have been telling me to just smooth it over instead of adding detail (greeble, etc) which I'll probably be ignoring. Well said.

The reason I'd prefer is that, basically, an unbroken armor belt gives a much greater impression of durability and power, whereas the segmented instead gives the impression that Terran ship designers are morons who introduce massive vulnerabilities into the design because they can. Since this is arguably the best entry in the field of Terran ship design in FS2, it doesn't really fit.
I see, will try something out.

Quote
If we were discussing the Hecate, I'd be all for making it look like it was designed by fools because it probably was.
*high-five*
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on January 30, 2011, 11:21:15 pm
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/middlething.png)
redid the middle section, still more work needed on this part. will redo the nose too.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Col. Fishguts on January 31, 2011, 08:18:04 am
You might consider going all out on the horizontal "trench" thing along the side. The :v: model had the tiling lights texture applied there, which you don't necessarily have to follow. It might look much better (and give it a proper sense of scale) with more random greebles. And by that I mean functional looking geometry with irregular rows of windows sprinkled in.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Sololop on February 03, 2011, 03:38:31 pm
I eagerly await the final product  :yes:
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Cobra on February 05, 2011, 05:01:56 pm
Can you put the images on imageshack or somewhere that the library internet doesn't block please?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on February 23, 2011, 04:50:41 pm
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/deimos1.png)
Still not sure about the middle segment, but I think it came out better this time. Nose needs some work too. Thoughts/suggestions for the nose or the middle part?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: MatthTheGeek on February 23, 2011, 05:07:25 pm
Maybe a little too smooth, especially the nose, but that's a huge nitpick. Looks very good so far.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Luis Dias on February 23, 2011, 05:14:31 pm
The forward vertical egg (the forwardest shape) could extend a little to the bottom, perhaps finish in a smooth way.

Idk, it seems awkward for the whole shape to be as if cut through with a knife at the bottom.

Perhaps not a good idea?

Anyways, good luck. It's getting better.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Kolgena on February 23, 2011, 05:34:22 pm
You haven't added in the front thruster and the beam turret mounts, so it's hard to say how the nose flows with the rest of the ship. Right now, it looks very good. However, I personally would favor a flatter (more angular?), less bulbous approach to the nose, or even something to break up the large smooth surface.

All the other parts look great.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: General Battuta on February 23, 2011, 05:35:45 pm
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/deimos1.png)

(http://psp-download-center.com/members/advanced/img/19549_transformers-optimus-profile-PSP-wallpaper.jpg)
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Kolgena on February 23, 2011, 05:36:43 pm
Man, that's a forced simile.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on February 23, 2011, 06:33:01 pm
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/deimos3.png)
I do need to still add some details to the nose, and some other stuff. Thoughts?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Mars on February 23, 2011, 06:45:13 pm
I would suggest some detail work on the windows section.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on February 23, 2011, 08:25:15 pm
Oh I am going to do that, I just need to think of what it should look like for now, docking port and side turrets
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/nudeimos.png)
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Rodo on February 23, 2011, 08:30:00 pm
Looks like an elephant, I'm not liking the nose right now, what about something less rounded?
StarSlayer's concept about the Deimos was quite good, I liked that angular nose thingy he made.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Mars on February 23, 2011, 09:02:23 pm
That is damn sexy. . . I feel like there should be distinctions between the types of turrets, but that's rather nitpicky and a bit unrealistic of me.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on February 23, 2011, 09:18:02 pm
There will be, definitely gonna make custom missile mount models and terslash models for it.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Kolgena on February 23, 2011, 10:03:25 pm
I'm with Rodo on the new developments. The front section is starting to look a bit like an inflatable toy for its lack of hard shapes.

Edit: Also, it might be the angle, but it seems the distance between the front thruster and the turret is shorter than it was before. I'm getting the impression that it would be kind of toasty to be that turret :P

Rest of it looks very good though.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on February 23, 2011, 10:10:15 pm
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/nudeimos2.png)
How about this, better?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Asteroth on February 23, 2011, 10:26:29 pm
I feel like the bottom part shouldn't bulge out as it goes with the curve, like the curve is held out too long.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on February 23, 2011, 10:31:52 pm
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/nudeimos3.png)
Alright, how about now? :P
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Kolgena on February 23, 2011, 10:35:17 pm
That looks much better to me.

Also, is it just the angle, or has the front thruster actually been pushed back? I still get the impression that the turret's getting burnt.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Commander Zane on February 23, 2011, 10:36:33 pm
Mmm sexy.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on February 23, 2011, 10:37:48 pm
Actually, it's a bit pushed forward than the retail thruster, and the multipart is in about the same place. I wish I could change it, because it was a dumb placement on the retail model for the gun, but there's not much I can do about that.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Rodo on February 23, 2011, 11:12:26 pm
That's better, keep on it Hades :yes:
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Rga_Noris on February 24, 2011, 12:49:48 pm
You've got an impressive amount of talent.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Mars on February 24, 2011, 03:34:35 pm
You really do - your Medusa knocked it the **** out of the park!
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Galemp on February 24, 2011, 11:25:51 pm
I'm actually really disliking the direction this is going... I much prefer my Deimos machined out of a block of steel and not extruded from Play-Doh.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Sololop on February 25, 2011, 04:59:39 pm
Whatever site your using to upload doesn't want to show up on my PC  :nervous:
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on February 26, 2011, 07:50:09 pm
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/communimos.png)
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Kolgena on February 26, 2011, 08:31:57 pm
The radar dish and sensor spikes look decidedly out of place.

Can we get a shot of what the front thruster looks like from the back? Or some sort of underside shot?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Black Wolf on February 26, 2011, 08:36:05 pm
Yeah, all that sensor stuff up front looks tacked on. Truth be told, I think I'm with GE on this - it's just... I can see the deimos, but it lacks the feel of it fundamentally.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on February 26, 2011, 08:41:52 pm
And what would be the feel of it? Truth be told... I never cared for the original Deimos, the font was a block and the back was curved, it always seemed to clash to me.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Kolgena on February 26, 2011, 10:29:33 pm
It might be the muffin top that the top section has kind of become. It doesn't look well-integrated into the rest of the model, and almost as if you could pry it off with your hand.

I personally think it's okay. I might argue that all the smoothed over edges get slightly smaller radii to look harder, but I'm waiting for a little more development before I'll need to say anything like "it's going in the wrong direction".
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Rodo on February 26, 2011, 10:33:38 pm
From that angle... it still looks like an elephant.
Try separating the lower engine from the frontal part just a little, maybe that will help.
And I agree, the dish and the spikes do not fit in there... if you want to fill the area, you can make a pipe come out of that part and connect with the area around the two beam turrets, something like a cooling system pipe of some kind (just a random idea).
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Kolgena on February 26, 2011, 10:38:37 pm
I think the trunk appearance may be remedied if the front thruster is moved yet more forward, so that the "trunk" portion is shorter.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on February 27, 2011, 02:38:49 am
On the retail model, the nose thrusters seem to extend further down... it also makes them look shorter, hence that bottom turret placement seems slightly less wrong.
Apart from that, I agree with GalEmp and the others, it could do with less curviness and a less organic look.

(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/8404/tempz.gif)
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Snail on February 27, 2011, 06:33:12 am
Yeah, I think you might have gone a little overboard with the smoothing. It looks like a plush toy~

The radar and sensor spikes also look out of place.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: CommanderDJ on February 27, 2011, 06:46:22 am
So that's what the retail model looks like. Gotta say, it looks very different without its texture. Much, much simpler.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: SkycladGuardian on February 27, 2011, 11:17:48 am
I like where this is going.
Since the Deimos represents a new generation of battleships, this smooth approach is quite fitting IMO.

Besides, the elephantish look will vanish as soon as the model  is textured.

I think it looks more like an elephant seal anyway :P
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Commander Zane on February 27, 2011, 11:39:45 am
I think if it absolutely needs to be changed, the ventral thruster could be slightly shorter. Otherwise, the Deimos looks sleek, modern, and fast, and I love it.
Title: Re: Nudeimos
Post by: Hades on February 27, 2011, 02:49:34 pm
Since the Deimos represents a new generation of battleships, this smooth approach is quite fitting IMO.
That's exactly what I'm going for.

Anyway, I'll probably change the bottom engine a little bit, mostly shortening it and making it a bit less trumpish, but I'm keeping the Deimos curvy.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: General Battuta on February 27, 2011, 03:08:26 pm
I dunno, I only started liking your Medusa when it got really angular and detailed.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on February 27, 2011, 03:22:30 pm
Funny thing is, it's, if anything, gotten LESS curvy since before the bottom engine was attached (mainly the body) and no one had a problem then! And now it's as if I've gone and killed all that is holy and dear to the world. In fact, I was told several times by several people to 'make it curvy and not a greeble monster like the Medusa' and that's what I've done, and now some of the very same want it reversed?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Rodo on February 27, 2011, 03:24:43 pm
Pardon us, we don't know what we want, but we'll recognize it when we see it  :p

That's about the only excuse I have for myself.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: General Battuta on February 27, 2011, 03:29:33 pm
Funny thing is, it's, if anything, gotten LESS curvy since before the bottom engine was attached (mainly the body) and no one had a problem then! And now it's as if I've gone and killed all that is holy and dear to the world. In fact, I was told several times by several people to 'make it curvy and not a greeble monster like the Medusa' and that's what I've done, and now some of the very same want it reversed?

The model is not far enough along to really judge it yet.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Sololop on February 27, 2011, 03:32:08 pm
I can see it now.

Also, I know Hades knows how to make a ship look good. I'm sure he will revise it again and again until he has something that looks decidedly awesome, because that's just what he does.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Asteroth on February 27, 2011, 04:06:16 pm
Funny thing is, it's, if anything, gotten LESS curvy since before the bottom engine was attached (mainly the body) and no one had a problem then! And now it's as if I've gone and killed all that is holy and dear to the world. In fact, I was told several times by several people to 'make it curvy and not a greeble monster like the Medusa' and that's what I've done, and now some of the very same want it reversed?
That's what you get for listening to other people.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: MatthTheGeek on February 27, 2011, 05:07:03 pm
All those people complaining about the greeble on the Medusa are retarded. You make greeble great, much better than you do smooth. I'd like to see more greeble on that Deimos.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 27, 2011, 05:34:11 pm
All those people complaining about the greeble on the Medusa are retarded. You make greeble great, much better than you do smooth. I'd like to see more greeble on that Deimos.

+1
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Droid803 on February 27, 2011, 05:38:32 pm
It seems like why it looks more rounded is that the forward lower engines don't quite extend far enough down and go too far back? I donno.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Kolgena on February 27, 2011, 05:56:13 pm
I know this is contrary to what I usually do, but we should all shut up and let some more progress happen.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Galemp on February 27, 2011, 06:48:14 pm
Thanks for posting that shot of the retail model. It helps me illustrate what I see as the primary lines of the Deimos. I don't want to see them too broken up; I'd prefer to see the massing of the high-poly Deimos defined by the smoothgroups of the original model.

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Pred the Penguin on February 27, 2011, 08:59:43 pm
When you get down to it, the Deimos really isn't a blocky ship. There are many smooth lines going on there.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on February 27, 2011, 09:14:13 pm
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/deimos21.png)
I think you can see I haven't actually changed any of the 'primary' lines at all, except for maybe the one running across the bottom.

When you get down to it, the Deimos really isn't a blocky ship. There are many smooth lines going on there.
Exactly.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Mars on February 27, 2011, 09:16:55 pm
I believe Hades mentioned more greebles later as well. Hold out people XD

There really isn't even a whole ship here to judge yet.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Rga_Noris on February 27, 2011, 10:37:06 pm
This Deimos is looking fantastic. I have no idea what the others are so upset about.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Commander Zane on February 27, 2011, 10:38:34 pm
Agreed.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Pred the Penguin on February 28, 2011, 03:13:13 am
I think you can see I haven't actually changed any of the 'primary' lines at all, except for maybe the one running across the bottom.
The bottom of the Diemos was always messed up in my opinion... But now that you mention it, I remember it being very hard to get a beed on the 'chin' engine. Hopefully, what you're doing won't have an effect.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Commander Zane on February 28, 2011, 07:54:22 am
Not unless the subsystem data is changed will its 'destroyability' be different.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Pred the Penguin on February 28, 2011, 09:41:40 am
That's not what I meant, sorry for not being clear. I just meant it's hard to target.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: MatthTheGeek on February 28, 2011, 09:52:48 am
This is getting better and better as it progresses. The smoothing is now looking much less wrong.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Trivial Psychic on February 28, 2011, 07:50:06 pm
Not unless the subsystem data is changed will its 'destroyability' be different.
OOOOhhh... now THERE's an idea, make the entire ventral engine struts the subsystem-submodel, so they blow up completely leaving a sheared off section when its destroyed.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: General Battuta on February 28, 2011, 07:51:15 pm
Please don't, we'll never be able to have a believable Deimos-disabled-and-repaired mission ever.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Trivial Psychic on February 28, 2011, 08:08:55 pm
The existing one has external damage for the engines... we've got turrets with damaged submodels... so there is at least precedent.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: General Battuta on February 28, 2011, 08:11:28 pm
The issue isn't damaged submodels, the SEXP can repair the submodel - but how do you justify an entire sheared off ventral engine section popping back into life when repairs are complete?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Luis Dias on February 28, 2011, 08:12:22 pm
The issue isn't damaged submodels, the SEXP can repair the submodel - but how do you justify an entire sheared off ventral engine section popping back into life when repairs are complete?

....nanobots?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Commander Zane on February 28, 2011, 08:20:34 pm
Sparkle Magic?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Rodo on February 28, 2011, 08:25:30 pm
<insert technobabble here>
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Rga_Noris on March 01, 2011, 01:14:28 am
The issue isn't damaged submodels, the SEXP can repair the submodel - but how do you justify an entire sheared off ventral engine section popping back into life when repairs are complete?

Easily. First, the Terrans activate an electron-matter ionizer by plugging into the damaged subsystem's Mjolnir socket. Several small charging tubes are assembled and placed near the broken or missing hull. The nanites are delivered via several gerbils that go through the tubes. The nanites then canabalize the gerbils, using their atoms as the building blocks for new matter. Using several low-level atomizers combined with a few high-level ion synchronizers, matter can be rearranged into different densities and new matter can be formed. Prior to the matter being finished, it usually remains in an invisible gaseous state until the point of completion, in which the newly made matter snaps suddenly into existance. This must be countered by using several magnetron emitters, and as such they are usually fired up prior to activation sequence. The whole device fits in a pen.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Mongoose on March 01, 2011, 02:19:56 am
It'd certainly make that Deimos-minefield mission in Derelict look even more amusing than it is now. :p
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Pred the Penguin on March 01, 2011, 05:59:45 am
The issue isn't damaged submodels, the SEXP can repair the submodel - but how do you justify an entire sheared off ventral engine section popping back into life when repairs are complete?

Easily. First, the Terrans activate an electron-matter ionizer by plugging into the damaged subsystem's Mjolnir socket. Several small charging tubes are assembled and placed near the broken or missing hull. The nanites are delivered via several gerbils that go through the tubes. The nanites then canabalize the gerbils, using their atoms as the building blocks for new matter. Using several low-level atomizers combined with a few high-level ion synchronizers, matter can be rearranged into different densities and new matter can be formed. Prior to the matter being finished, it usually remains in an invisible gaseous state until the point of completion, in which the newly made matter snaps suddenly into existance. This must be countered by using several magnetron emitters, and as such they are usually fired up prior to activation sequence. The whole device fits in a pen.
Awesome dude! :cool:

It'd still be hard to target ( at least for me ) though. Maybe I just suck at FS. :nervous:
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Commander Zane on March 01, 2011, 08:13:45 am
When you say target do you mean a by-reticle aquirement (V-key) or trying to hit it within its exposed area?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Pred the Penguin on March 02, 2011, 04:20:20 am
Trying to hit it...
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Luis Dias on March 09, 2011, 06:02:11 am
Dont mind the haters, man. Just model the thing and then present it as a "take it or leave it". If you take all these contradictory chaps seriously, you'll go mad.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: MatthTheGeek on March 09, 2011, 06:11:16 am
So, you're basically saying that he should ignore all relevant constructive criticism ? That's very clever of you my friend.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Luis Dias on March 09, 2011, 06:37:37 am
So, you're basically saying that he should ignore all relevant constructive criticism ? That's very clever of you my friend.

thanks!
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on March 09, 2011, 07:05:49 am
It's not that, I think he's saying that I should model it how I want the Deimos to look, and if someone wants to try and make me change it so that it is no longer my vision but someone elses, then I should ignore it.

That being said, I have not stopped working on it, it's on the backburner for now, and I've been busy IRL a bit this week and the last (two full exam weeks plus a surgery! yay!), but I am still going to finish it and it's gonna be smooth.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on March 29, 2011, 11:24:35 am
*Bumparoo*

I like most people was pretty much ok with how the Deimos is currently. Since stumbling across this thread however it's been steadily coming across as kinda ugly, up to the point now where I think Hades is very well justified on choosing it for beautification.

Is there any news on how this coming along?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Luis Dias on March 29, 2011, 01:32:41 pm
It's not that, I think he's saying that I should model it how I want the Deimos to look, and if someone wants to try and make me change it so that it is no longer my vision but someone elses, then I should ignore it.

That being said, I have not stopped working on it, it's on the backburner for now, and I've been busy IRL a bit this week and the last (two full exam weeks plus a surgery! yay!), but I am still going to finish it and it's gonna be smooth.

There's just nothing worse than design by comittee  ;)
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on September 05, 2011, 12:06:13 am
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/deimos.png?t=1315192258)
Haters gonna hate. Done some additional work on some parts, threw out the nose and mid section.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: mjn.mixael on September 05, 2011, 12:11:56 am
 :yes:
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Ulala on September 05, 2011, 12:20:57 am
I like it. Well done, sir. Looking forward to seeing more progress.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Lester on September 05, 2011, 01:00:46 am
**** yes :yes:
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 05, 2011, 05:34:04 am
Goddammit, I thought we were going to do away with the gaps in the side belt.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Commander Zane on September 05, 2011, 07:41:51 am
Awesome!
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Nyctaeus on September 05, 2011, 10:03:10 am
Make everything roundy is horrible method of making HTLs. Restore the original, sharp edges and now it will be a good one. Otherwise, your version has a lot of pretty details.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 05, 2011, 10:06:08 am
Keep hating.

I like me some curves.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Commander Zane on September 05, 2011, 10:16:02 am
Make everything roundy is horrible method of making HTLs. Restore the original, sharp edges and now it will be a good one. Otherwise, your version has a lot of pretty details.
The Colossus wants to speak with you.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: mjn.mixael on September 05, 2011, 10:43:52 am
Make everything roundy is horrible method of making HTLs. Restore the original, sharp edges and now it will be a good one. Otherwise, your version has a lot of pretty details.

Please see this thread (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=70404.0) for how comments and demands like this will end up. Please be a little more tactful. I will not have another thread turn into pointless bickering.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on September 05, 2011, 10:55:13 am
Make everything roundy is horrible method of making HTLs. Restore the original, sharp edges and now it will be a good one. Otherwise, your version has a lot of pretty details.
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/1262457838554.jpg)
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Rodo on September 05, 2011, 10:58:05 am
I like it so far, what I'm not buying are those little bridges on the middle... maybe adding some kind of functionality would make them better.
I take it anyway you are not done with that part so I'll just wait a little more to get in nuisance mode :P
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: T-LoW on September 05, 2011, 10:59:16 am
Me likes where this Deimos is going. You're on the right track :yes:
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Droid803 on September 05, 2011, 12:09:58 pm
The deimos is clearly supposed to have round edges. All is good.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: bobbtmann on September 05, 2011, 12:26:46 pm
 I like how aggressive it seems. The top reminds me of a furrowed brow.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hellstryker on September 05, 2011, 12:53:57 pm
I like the top armor casing or whatever it's supposed to be. Not so much a fan of the nose or the lower bits, but I do like how you turned the beams into BFGs from those wimpy button turrets, even if it will be a pain to balance correctly.

The biggest eyesore to me is the way the nose just curves around into an engine. It seems too... organic, almost? Nothing Terran about it there.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: mjn.mixael on September 05, 2011, 01:10:26 pm
The biggest eyesore to me is the way the nose just curves around into an engine. It seems too... organic, almost? Nothing Terran about it there.

 :wtf:

I just want to make sure that you realize that the greyed out models are not a part of Hades' recreation and are in fact the models from retail and current MediaVPs... Hades' model doesn't even have engines yet.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hellstryker on September 05, 2011, 01:14:02 pm
I'm aware of that, I was talking about his earlier renders that did have engines, and as far as I knew (up 'til talking to him on skype five minutes ago), they had not been scrapped, with the aforementioned render just being a contrast between his new one and the current HTL Deimos.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Trivial Psychic on September 05, 2011, 02:39:49 pm
Are you still planning on incorporating the side-mounted multi-part turrets for at the very least a "special edition" of the model?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Rga_Noris on September 06, 2011, 11:45:34 am
Looks like another Hades made Wow-Bomb is in production. Medusa, move over.

EDIT: Question: The trenches on top seem to be a great feature, but a little empty. To you have plans to add greebles within those trenches?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Ulala on September 06, 2011, 08:27:08 pm
It seems too... organic, almost? Nothing Terran about it there.

The Deimos is powered by Vasudan technology, one could argue that there was some Vasudan influence on the design. /shrug
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on September 07, 2011, 08:02:28 pm
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/deimos2.png?t=1315443058)
New image.

I made sure to make the front curved, just for you Betrayal. <3
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Shivan Hunter on September 07, 2011, 08:09:37 pm
a preemptive strike at those among us who are members of Humanity Front http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C8CWH-L1ws

also the Deimos looks awesome

[EDIT] Also the entire front is smoothed except for that one series of edges about halfway down, might want to do something about that
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on September 07, 2011, 08:49:17 pm
[EDIT] Also the entire front is smoothed except for that one series of edges about halfway down, might want to do something about that
forgot to remirror out of laziness, ignore.

EDIT: Derp, now I know what you mean. That's cause they're seperated at that point, I was going to try putting the engine on some sort of mount but I realized it'd ruin the flow and look dumb.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on September 08, 2011, 01:43:22 am
Looks awesome, the head makes it look like a battering ram, nice and aggressive.  :yes:
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on September 09, 2011, 12:24:51 am
Now THAT is an effective use of curved surfaces - well done!
If you can hold to that style for the rest of it, it will look very, very cool. :D
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: T-LoW on September 09, 2011, 03:20:04 am
I'm really looking forward to the rear section (no pun intended :P )

Will you keep the strange tubes at the main engines? They always looked somewhat redundant to me. Just something random to add detail...
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Liberator on September 09, 2011, 09:28:04 am
Just my opinion, take it as that.

The space on top between the forward crew section(beige in the illustration) and the aft engineering section(the engine pod) in the back seems a bit large.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Commander Zane on September 09, 2011, 10:47:32 am
That part of the model was cut off. That's where all those windows would be.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Ravenholme on September 09, 2011, 11:38:52 am
YES! Hades is working on the Deimos again :D
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: SkycladGuardian on September 09, 2011, 01:50:40 pm
The front looks like a very angry Protoss  :D
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Liberator on September 09, 2011, 06:01:28 pm
That part of the model was cut off. That's where all those windows would be.
Are those coming back at some point?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 09, 2011, 06:12:38 pm
You know of course people this is going to make it look even more like it has a face now that you've given it a nose. :p
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on September 09, 2011, 06:50:09 pm
You know of course people this is going to make it look even more like it has a face now that you've given it a nose. :p
It always had a nose, but ok.

Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 09, 2011, 07:09:47 pm
It always had a nose, but ok.

More of a nose, then; the other one wasn't nearly as pronounced.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on September 09, 2011, 07:52:33 pm
It always had a nose, but ok.

More of a nose, then; the other one wasn't nearly as pronounced.
Dunno what you're talking about, the old one was like a nose that starts way too high on the forehead, which was fairly ugly.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 09, 2011, 08:47:55 pm
It's bigger.

And now you're agreeing with me it's more facey?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on September 09, 2011, 09:22:40 pm
It's bigger.

And now you're agreeing with me it's more facey?
Talking about the old one, bro.

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/deimosnose.png?t=1315621345)
And you don't know a single damn thing you're talking about.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 09, 2011, 09:45:16 pm
Talking about the old one, bro.

So let's see.

You said the old one had the nose start up the forehead. And I got that.  You indeed claimed you fixed that fact. So now it looks more like a face because it starts lower, which is more like a face.

And it's definitely more distinct; it's raised higher and it's not as broad, drawing more attention by the fact that it's not the vast majority of the front end. So it looks more like a nose.

So apparently, you're just lying.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Mars on September 09, 2011, 09:49:42 pm
. . . Seriously?

Let Hades build the model. If it has a face, and you don't like it, you have a perfectly usable model that's been around for ages.

It does kind of look like a scowling angry face, and it does kind of look like a battering ram, and I fail to see why either of those is a problem.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 09, 2011, 09:54:25 pm
Let Hades build the model. If it has a face, and you don't like it, you have a perfectly usable model that's been around for ages.

I don't actually have much of an opinion on the subject, except that Hades makes giggleworthy attempts to misrepresent things.

If you want to know what I think is actually beyond merely amusingly silly to actively weird about this, it's that large sections have been scooped out of the armor plate on parts of the ship that would be facing the enemy while it engages.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on September 09, 2011, 10:17:01 pm
Talking about the old one, bro.

So let's see.

You said the old one had the nose start up the forehead. And I got that.  You indeed claimed you fixed that fact. So now it looks more like a face because it starts lower, which is more like a face.
You post seemed to indicate that you thought I was talking about my own with the 'So you agree with me that it's more facey?' which is why I pointed that out.

Quote
And it's definitely more distinct; it's raised higher and it's not as broad, drawing more attention by the fact that it's not the vast majority of the front end. So it looks more like a nose.

So apparently, you're just lying.
Yeah, because I actually see more of a nose in the older model than mine, that makes me a liar? K.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: mjn.mixael on September 10, 2011, 12:06:57 am
Based on the context of the discussion, whether or not it has the appearance of a face is not important. Furthermore, trying to prove whether or not Hades was lying about fixing said appearance is even less important. Instead let's please continue meaningful discussion about the model.

I expect to see no further posts on this current train of thought.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Zacam on September 10, 2011, 01:44:42 am
Agreed. No WIP thread should start having multiple splits from it, that's just....*sighs*

Really liking the progress so far. Starting to look more like a war machine that means business and serves a purpose rather than a (albeit good looking) cardboard construct.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Liberator on September 10, 2011, 06:20:04 am
Indeed, looking forward to seeing the completed mesh and texture!
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Trivial Psychic on September 10, 2011, 08:02:56 am
This may be too far along in the design process to be relevant, but in the original, the central strip of the forward dorsal is raised above the outer portions.  You could perhaps retain this feature in your upgrade by raising the portions inboard of the groove, which houses the the turrets, or by dropping the outer portions to achieve the same effect.  I also feel that the groove is a bit too wide, but these are just my opinions.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on September 10, 2011, 09:58:52 am
That part of the model was cut off. That's where all those windows would be.
Are those coming back at some point?


I would assume so since being able to hide in that wee spot alters the balance somewhat. I think I actually prefer it without the windows all scrunched up in there, the current HTL looks really messy in that area, something I hope Hades can rectify.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Firstdragon34 on September 12, 2011, 11:48:14 am
Darn, I wish I could do that! Too bad that I have dial-up! ;p
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Firstdragon34 on September 12, 2011, 11:53:39 am
If I had Cable, I would gladly download SCP and FS0, but for now I'll just be the spectator that enjoys your hardwork!
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on September 12, 2011, 02:31:43 pm
Darn, I wish I could do that! Too bad that I have dial-up! ;p

Holy hell bro, there's places in Somalia that have freaking broadband! :P
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Mongoose on September 12, 2011, 06:01:38 pm
It's never really happened, but there's been talk in the past about setting up a torrent for official releases, which would really help people with crappy connections.  In the meantime, Firstdragon, if you have any friends who have broadband, hand 'em a flash drive and make 'em download for you. :p
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Firstdragon34 on September 12, 2011, 07:26:57 pm
If you guys want ship ideas, I'm your man, but could some one post a picture of the HTL Rahksasha. I hear it is quite extraordinary.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: rscaper1070 on September 12, 2011, 08:32:43 pm
If you guys want ship ideas, I'm your man, but could some one post a picture of the HTL Rahksasha. I hear it is quite extraordinary.

Dude, it has it's own thread just a few doors down. Stop with the derails.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Firstdragon34 on September 12, 2011, 08:46:04 pm
I visited it very recently, but the picture was removed by someone else. I'm sorry if I move off topic. I wish I knew more about your guys HTL language.

I'm also very new here as well.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Ulala on September 12, 2011, 09:00:40 pm
Go here, Firstdragon: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=64737.160
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Firstdragon34 on September 12, 2011, 09:37:23 pm
Thank you, Ulala.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on September 08, 2013, 07:18:01 pm

hello
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: An4ximandros on September 08, 2013, 07:39:24 pm
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/6b7a11c55ef1ec9ec6177e533345e2e2/tumblr_mjy299fLGG1qii6tmo1_400.gif)

It's like all I've ever wanted to see on a Deimos.

And now you make me want to have 3d ship name plaques rather than decals. :E
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Scourge of Ages on September 08, 2013, 07:41:27 pm
Well hello there, welcome back, Deimos!
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Rodo on September 08, 2013, 07:55:21 pm
Owww, I wuv the Deimos.
I must say that the nameplate geometry makes it feel like a real ship. I wish we had the tools to implement something like that :S
And dude, the massive greebling on the frontal cavity of the rear engine feels a little too noisy.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Alan Bolte on September 08, 2013, 08:09:27 pm
And dude, the massive greebling on the frontal cavity of the rear engine feels a little too noisy.
I love it. Gives the ship a sense of scale.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on September 08, 2013, 08:24:14 pm
That's one of the parts that VA worked on and it is utterly magnificent in my opinion, it makes me envious of his skill.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: headdie on September 09, 2013, 01:19:31 am
that looks impressive nice work to all involved
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Kiloku on September 09, 2013, 06:19:19 am
Byootiful
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on September 09, 2013, 08:04:55 am
And dude, the massive greebling on the frontal cavity of the rear engine feels a little too noisy.

If you look at the normal Deimos there's a texture there that tries to greeble up the area, I think this model does a far better job of it imho. Good work Hades and to all involved, I've been holding my breath for this beast!
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on September 09, 2013, 12:25:11 pm
Updated the front a tad bit and added some more details, added some more details to the third engine bank as well.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Aesaar on September 09, 2013, 02:31:28 pm
**** I hate those engine nozzles on this thing.  They just don't mesh well with your style, Hades.  Too sharp edged and angular.

And everyone who disagrees is completely wrong!  Pay no attention to them, they're only trying to convert you to their ways of wrongness, like the wrong people they are.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: An4ximandros on September 09, 2013, 03:01:14 pm
Disregard the heretic Aesaar. He just mad at your l33t skillz. :p
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on September 09, 2013, 03:33:15 pm
Disregard the heretic Aesaar. He just mad at your l33t skillz. :p
Those are uh, his nozzles. He made them.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Rodo on September 09, 2013, 04:27:26 pm
Ok, ok. I get it, the greebling stays. I still think it's a little too noisy thou.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Col.Hornet on September 09, 2013, 06:23:25 pm
I like these multi part turrets :) Some areas still need some attention, but I'm sure they will be properly filled with armour plates, pipes and other details soon.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: AthlonBoy on September 11, 2013, 01:23:20 pm
NECROPOS- wait



Man that's awesome.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Kolgena on September 11, 2013, 02:32:13 pm
Looks great. I especially like how the head feels like he front of the Hecate. Greebles are not too noisy, and pipes in the back are just as hilariously illogical as ever.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Col.Hornet on September 11, 2013, 04:38:30 pm
Noisy or not, when the textures come everything will look properly ;P
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on September 12, 2013, 01:59:34 pm
Updated. As you can see on the right side, placement for the multiparts from the Volition renders has been added for the variant.pof version of it (with some detailing around them, too!) and you can see how it looks without the turrets, ala vanilla MediaVP version (like armor plates)

Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Ulala on September 12, 2013, 04:51:19 pm
Looks sick. I'm curious what this little thing on the back is though? It looks almost as if it's floating just up and to the right of the back of the model.

(http://i.imgur.com/lk4T5k8.png)

[edit] better screenshot:

(http://i.imgur.com/J2Jh3Hh.png)
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on September 12, 2013, 05:23:05 pm
That's a quick design I made for the missile launcher, which I still need to finish up.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Mars on September 12, 2013, 06:42:18 pm
It looks so much better with those side multiparts.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Rodo on September 12, 2013, 09:35:16 pm
I concur, maybe they'd look better a little smaller?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Cobra on September 12, 2013, 11:00:24 pm
Can you work the rear now?

:P
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: An4ximandros on September 13, 2013, 12:45:35 am
I concur, the back is woefully under detailed now. :P
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Alan Bolte on September 27, 2013, 10:16:44 pm
After staring at it for a bit, I think the area outlined in red would be well-served by borrowing its greebling style from the area outlined in blue. Lots of horizontal lines following the curves would add detail without breaking up the smoothness too much.

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: cahdoge on September 30, 2013, 03:08:39 pm
 :yes: VERRY NICE model
It's a nice idea to take the name as relief
 but may I name the ship other than Lysander?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: mralexs on September 30, 2013, 04:50:17 pm
You can name it whatever you want in FRED
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: niffiwan on September 30, 2013, 05:20:51 pm
I think he's referring to the modelled nameplate :)

I thought there was a comment in the thread about being able to change that, but I can't find it  :(

edit: typo
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Cobra on September 30, 2013, 05:33:40 pm
I think he's referring to the modelled nameplate :)

I'm thought there was a comment in the thread about being able to change that, but I can't find it  :(

Elusive comment is elusive.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Alan Bolte on September 30, 2013, 06:36:23 pm
IIRC Hades modeled the nameplate on the Orion too before he eventually removed it. It's just for show.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: cahdoge on October 01, 2013, 12:06:39 pm
I mean may i change the name standing on the model anyhow without modeling experience?
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Mars on October 01, 2013, 12:13:10 pm
I mean may i change the name standing on the model anyhow without modeling experience?
Yes the texture replacement feature in FRED that allows you to change the nameplate of a ship. There are a ton of FREDing resources available, and the wiki will show you many of them.

If you meant on the model in general? Once its released, no, you would need a little bit of modding knowledge to change the nameplate in anything other than Freespace and FRED, and I believe it would require explicit permission from Hades and anyone else who built this model.
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: SypheDMar on October 02, 2013, 12:20:27 am
Well, that would be a problem if true. FSU assets should be under the free-to-use-and-finish licensing guidelines that Kara and BlackWolf mentioned before for other assets. While other assets not part of FSU aren't mandated (but encouraged to nonetheless), FSU should be an exception out of principle.

Of course, if it is not required of Hades yet, we can't force him to take that position. But if FSU did adopt that position, it should be upheld for all future works and anyone providing assets for FSU should be expected to be in such an agreement.

Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Hades on October 02, 2013, 12:21:55 am
You guys are talking about a lot of silly **** considering the modeled nameplate is only there for show. :P
Title: Re: NuDeimos
Post by: Mongoose on October 02, 2013, 12:29:22 am
Man, though, just imagine if we could have procedurally-generated modeled nameplates...
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Hades on October 06, 2013, 02:47:30 am

Update on the window stuff on the side. Not completely finished meshwise, and I still need to add a bit more to the neck bit as well.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on October 06, 2013, 05:10:56 pm
The neck looks great, I love the way it flows into the engine block there. It kind of almost looks Vasudany which I guess would make sense lore-wise.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: The Dagger on October 06, 2013, 05:37:53 pm
I'd say the neck is fine, but the rear armor plates have a lot less detail than the rest.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Rodo on October 06, 2013, 06:02:34 pm
Indeed, but I'm guessing that's an area he has not touched as of now.


On other topic slightly related to this, is there a reason why laser turrets are always represented with button turrets, just as the beams?
I mean I'd expect them to be smaller multipart turrets of some sort.

Note that I'm not saying the Deimos should have lasers morphed to multipart (though that would be quite cool), instead I'm wondering why V went that way when making the models, maybe some hardware limitation or the likes?
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Mongoose on October 06, 2013, 06:38:47 pm
From what I remember, the retail engine didn't support multipart turrets on any axes other than straight up and down, so :v: would have been limited to using simple blister turrets for the sides.  Now why that limitation was in the engine in the first place is another question...
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Hades on October 06, 2013, 11:24:16 pm
An idea I've always played around with buttons is being, the 'button' that we see is just the 'crater' the turret sits in, and it acts as armor/cover for the turret. Of course, the issue with this is that it seriously restricts FoV.

I'm also considering leaving the armor plating on the back undetailed. It gives it a sort of shell look and makes it fairly unique.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Ulala on October 07, 2013, 02:29:20 pm
I love it. :yes:
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Rodo on October 07, 2013, 04:46:16 pm
I'm also considering leaving the armor plating on the back undetailed. It gives it a sort of shell look and makes it fairly unique.

A lot of detail can be added from textures, but please consider adding some kind of separation on the mesh around the missile launchers.
Something like the gap used on the rear beam turrets maybe, just to make it clear that the launchers are "not part" of the rear plating.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: The Dagger on October 07, 2013, 05:01:49 pm
^This. And maybe some visual break (an inset?) where the curvy plates meet each other.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Aesaar on October 08, 2013, 12:05:22 am
I'm also considering leaving the armor plating on the back undetailed. It gives it a sort of shell look and makes it fairly unique.
I think it makes it look unfinished.  I strongly suggest you greeble it like you did the rest of the flatter bits of hull.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: esarai on October 08, 2013, 08:52:23 am
It's possible to make detailed shells, come on man.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Phantom Hoover on October 08, 2013, 09:12:18 am
It's also possible to have a ship that looks good without being encrusted with greebles.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Luis Dias on October 08, 2013, 09:23:14 am
The "horror of emptiness" is a common mistake many (newbie) artists make in any endeavour.

Hades does not need advice, but to anyone else disagreeing with the "lack of greeble" on any given square meter, I'd say this: you can have a whole big smooth plate and still make it extremely high quality if you accompany it with a very detailed finish or recess or something. Homeworld designers perfected this design strategy: make huge plates and then extremely narrow detailed parts that were able to capture the scale of the ships.

This way you have your cake and eat it too: detailed greebles that give you a sense of scale, not too much work because you only have to fine detail 10% or less of the mesh, not too much noise on the screen that would obliterate the effort put on it, not too many polies or textures that would overwhelm the GPU.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Enioch on October 08, 2013, 10:27:55 am
Yes, but if you choose to follow that school of design, follow it across the whole ship.

Hades has detailed the front armor to a ridiculous extent, to the point where an 'empty' rear would really clash with the over-detailed front.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: esarai on October 08, 2013, 10:35:09 am
I see what you're getting at, Luis Dias, but here it doesn't work because it produces such a heavy imbalance in the model.  The entire front section constitutes the 'narrow detailed part' and it's half of the whole ship.  The 'monolithic armor slab' appearance is defeated by giving small details the same visual area as the armor slabs, and they end up feeling discontinuous with the rest of the ship.  For the rear armor plates, I'm not saying we need super-dense tech greeble.  Just some minor surface details that integrate the plates to the rest of the ship, because right now they don't flow well. 

From another perspective, Hades has already done a magnificent job on the monolithic armor slab thing, padding each major section with a very nice amount of detail that frames the heavy armor.  That's not going on in the rear section.  There's no small detail to convey a sense of scale, unlike the front sections.

Perhaps some small trenches outlining the different plates.  That's at minimum what we need, because the rest of the ship uses them so heavily and then you get to the rear sector and everything suddenly starts flowing together with no detail spacing it out.

EDIT:

Hehe Enioch you ninja'd me.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Luis Dias on October 08, 2013, 03:47:05 pm
I agree with the "small trenches" separating the plates' comment.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: An4ximandros on October 08, 2013, 04:05:07 pm
So Hades, when are you planning to start UVing this baby? :P

Too many greebles if you ask me. There are some so small you wont even notice them once they are textured and in-game, so I ask, why even have them? (Look between the trench splitting the front for an example.)
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Raven2001 on October 08, 2013, 05:33:31 pm
I see what you're getting at, Luis Dias, but here it doesn't work because it produces such a heavy imbalance in the model.

This... I actually would advocate getting rid of some greebling in the front section, to re-balance the model. Not add greebles in the back. I don't see what the fear of ungreebled surfaces is all about :\
And the Deimos looks so beautifull without greebles, because its form is well designed.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Flaser on October 10, 2013, 01:03:43 am
Aren't we kinda forgetting that the engine also has normal maps now? Hades could've had using that in mind to detail the rear.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on October 10, 2013, 02:10:13 am
Don't you have to model the details first to make normals off of?
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: An4ximandros on October 10, 2013, 02:13:25 am
Afair, when I asked the same question, (this year?) I was told it was one of two ways of doing it, and the most inefficient FSO-wise.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Mongoose on October 10, 2013, 02:31:22 am
Let's step back for a second and appreciate the fact that the past several posts have been telling Hades to both add AND take away some greebles. :p
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: An4ximandros on October 10, 2013, 02:50:08 am
It needs to be at least this greeble'd:
(http://www.cg-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/greeble-blue.jpg)
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: The Dagger on October 10, 2013, 06:46:07 am
@An4ximandros: That is not good, it's only noise, there's no form or flow. Hades' detailing is complex and beautifull. His modeling skills are put to a good use throughout the front of the ship, in contrast to some lazzy method of "I'll just make senseless bits to make it look detailed".

Now, if no further work is done, I do think the model will look unbalanced and, dare I say, rushed. Although normal maps may help, it seems strange to model every single bit of greeble in the front and use maps for the back. Go for the whole thing or keep it simple, but don't stop inbetween. That been said, let's just wait a bit and see what he'll do.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Rodo on October 10, 2013, 09:21:07 am
I think An4x was being sarcastic Dagger.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: esarai on October 10, 2013, 11:22:08 am
I'm not necessarily in favor of 'greebles' in the sense of random details strapped on to the plates, I'd prefer to see them used to frame the armor plates, much like what was done in the front section.  This could even be as simple as adding a few trenches to space the seam between the distinct sections of the rear carapace.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on October 10, 2013, 11:59:14 am
Let's step back for a second and appreciate the fact that the past several posts have been telling Hades to both add AND take away some greebles. :p

Business as usual in other words.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Luis Dias on October 10, 2013, 04:19:12 pm
Well you know but on the other hand, and while we can say that however...
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Hades on October 10, 2013, 05:44:51 pm
Rear has a bit more detail overall now.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: BritishShivans on October 10, 2013, 06:38:35 pm
Rear armor thingies are looking great there! Not really sure about the back where there's no details on the two curvy bits, but to be honest I think it looks pretty fine.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Kolgena on October 10, 2013, 06:54:00 pm
Looks great. Ventral surface generally needs more detail, but I suspect it's because you haven't even started in those areas yet.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Alan Bolte on October 10, 2013, 09:34:29 pm
It works, but having watched a few Hades threads I expect to come back in a few days or weeks to see it looking even better.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: esarai on October 10, 2013, 10:28:31 pm
YEAAAAH those look pretty swank.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Trivial Psychic on October 10, 2013, 10:33:57 pm
NOW she's starting to look detail-balanced.  While I like the "intakes" on the side and top of the aft segment, I am concerned that they there may be a few recesses there were fighters could hide, which may have an effect on balance where the player is concerned.  You may want to consider reducing the amount of accessible space there by reducing the depth of the recesses.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on October 11, 2013, 06:19:00 am
NOW she's starting to look detail-balanced.  While I like the "intakes" on the side and top of the aft segment, I am concerned that they there may be a few recesses there were fighters could hide, which may have an effect on balance where the player is concerned.  You may want to consider reducing the amount of accessible space there by reducing the depth of the recesses.

That shouldn't be a problem if it uses the same collision box as the default model which is what most HTL models do right?
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Rodo on October 11, 2013, 09:54:45 am
And hades does it again.

Nice job man :yes:

edit: I just noticed the intakes right behind the docking ports. AWESOME AWESOME DETAIL.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Aesaar on October 11, 2013, 05:29:56 pm
NOW she's starting to look detail-balanced.  While I like the "intakes" on the side and top of the aft segment, I am concerned that they there may be a few recesses there were fighters could hide, which may have an effect on balance where the player is concerned.  You may want to consider reducing the amount of accessible space there by reducing the depth of the recesses.
I think this might be taking "no upsetting game balance" a little far.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Enioch on October 11, 2013, 06:00:20 pm
It does. Seriously, let Hades do his magic.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Alan Bolte on October 11, 2013, 06:04:20 pm
I was thinking those were sensors rather than intakes.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: esarai on October 11, 2013, 07:25:45 pm
NOW she's starting to look detail-balanced.  While I like the "intakes" on the side and top of the aft segment, I am concerned that they there may be a few recesses there were fighters could hide, which may have an effect on balance where the player is concerned.  You may want to consider reducing the amount of accessible space there by reducing the depth of the recesses.
I think this might be taking "no upsetting game balance" a little far.
If it becomes an issue, FS has a long and glorious tradition of invisible, collideable faces to keep fighters from going where they shouldn't.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Hades on October 11, 2013, 09:37:22 pm
NOW she's starting to look detail-balanced.  While I like the "intakes" on the side and top of the aft segment, I am concerned that they there may be a few recesses there were fighters could hide, which may have an effect on balance where the player is concerned.  You may want to consider reducing the amount of accessible space there by reducing the depth of the recesses.

That shouldn't be a problem if it uses the same collision box as the default model which is what most HTL models do right?
I don't think a single ship in the MVP uses anything but its LOD0 as its hitbox. Plus that wouldn't work most of the time due to different proportions due to detailing or changes by the artist.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Phantom Hoover on October 12, 2013, 05:32:49 am
I also don't see how it could have any affect on balance, seeing as the AI is totally incapable of navigating around collision hazards.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: The E on October 12, 2013, 05:48:02 am
If you're good enough a pilot to hide in that spot, you are good enough to hide in the equivalent blind spot on the retail model. There's no significant enough balance change here.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: cahdoge on October 14, 2013, 11:47:55 am
Looks greater than last time.
How about the turrets on the broadside will they now be added?
And how about making these sections more smooth.
And mayby this section too.
(http://Deimos back.png)
(http://Deimos side.png)

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Luis Dias on October 14, 2013, 12:01:16 pm
I disagree. I think they are fine as they are.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: cahdoge on October 14, 2013, 12:08:13 pm
By smooth i mean the transition.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Luis Dias on October 14, 2013, 12:24:56 pm
I know.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Rodo on October 14, 2013, 03:22:52 pm
Nah, I concur with Luis here, they are fine the way they are right now.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Col.Hornet on November 10, 2013, 11:21:54 am
I liked the previous shape of the multipart turrets much, much more. Theese ones lack the "heavy" look.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Mars on November 11, 2013, 01:08:40 pm
I liked the previous shape of the multipart turrets much, much more. Theese ones lack the "heavy" look.

:wtf: The current ones look like armored high tech cannons, the previous ones looked like they were made of soup cans.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Rodo on November 11, 2013, 06:28:30 pm
Oh damn, those turrets are new! and they look like win all over the place.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Alan Bolte on November 11, 2013, 10:01:09 pm
Those turrets are too cool to shoot green blobs.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Rodo on November 11, 2013, 10:28:33 pm
Yeah, damn ugly green goo blobs. Alan is right they most be changed!
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: BritishShivans on November 11, 2013, 10:34:50 pm
excuse you the green blobs make a cool noise when they fire i am sure that is a redeeming quality
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Col.Hornet on November 12, 2013, 08:28:34 am
Those turrets are too cool to shoot green blobs.
Yup, you're right :D That's why I think that more blocky turrets will fit here better. These slender high-tech turrets would look great while firing flak rounds or fast pulse lasers or something like that. THT's are not worth of them ;)
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Aesaar on November 12, 2013, 09:07:16 am
The turrets are fine.  If they look too cool for the weapon they have be default, that's a problem with FS2 having **** blobs, not the model.

Moreover, in FS2, the Deimos is a high-tech ship.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: The E on November 12, 2013, 09:15:56 am
Yeah, in the context of FS2, the Deimos is one of the big signifiers of "We are the GTVA, we have awesome new ships, ain't no shivan gonna mess with us", making them hitech is fully in keeping with the requirements of the story.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Luis Dias on November 12, 2013, 09:19:15 am
I always loved the Deimos.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: The E on November 12, 2013, 09:20:18 am
Deimos is one of the best ship designs in the game, both in terms of visuals and gameplay.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Valiran on November 12, 2013, 03:37:00 pm
I liked the previous shape of the multipart turrets much, much more. Theese ones lack the "heavy" look.

:wtf: The current ones look like armored high tech cannons, the previous ones looked like they were made of soup cans.
I dunno, I kinda liked the last ones, they looked more streamlined to me.  Though I might change my mind if I could compare them, alas, I don't have a screenshot of the previous turrets. :ick:
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Hades on December 11, 2013, 07:10:19 am
Dilemma. Two great multipart turrets, but I (as well as a couple of others I consulted) are unsure which one we prefer.


Thoughts?
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Trivial Psychic on December 11, 2013, 07:18:28 am
I prefer the ones without the swept-back shape.  It just doesn't feel freespacey to me.  I know that's a vague reason but its my opinion.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Luis Dias on December 11, 2013, 07:21:26 am
You should make a third one or a fourth one so the choices become easier :D.

I think I prefer the techier one. The classical one is less fitting to the narrative of "new ships new techs" in Freespace 2.

Although I understand Trivial's point. Almost seems like a thing from Halo.

Also, I love how the model is going :yes:

Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: DahBlount on December 11, 2013, 07:22:59 am
I really like the sleek, angular multiparts (first version?) but the turrets on the model closest to the viewer in the p3d look closer to the retail turrets.
This is a hard decision as they both look spectacular.
My final opinion would be the first version. Looks like an excellent road to go down.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Rodo on December 11, 2013, 07:37:26 am
I would stick with the first version as well, those sleek angular turrets look way too cool. Plus they feel a little more armored and solid than the other version which seems to have soft spots everywhere.

Mmm.. I think I'm starting to let WoT filter in my everyday thinking process.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Commander Zane on December 11, 2013, 08:20:44 am
I think the turrets on the version that appears closer to the initial camera view fit the model's aesthetic more than the other turrets.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: The E on December 11, 2013, 08:23:28 am
One more vote for the blocky turrets.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Col.Hornet on December 11, 2013, 08:24:54 am
I'd like to see the newest ones in the final version, they are closer looking to the retail ones. These V- shaped multiparts don't fit the line of the entire ship when you look at them from the top
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Ulala on December 11, 2013, 11:36:31 am
I also prefer the "rounder" or "less sleek" turrets, they look more Terran to me. The other ones look a little out of place, IMHO.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on December 11, 2013, 11:39:31 am
The ones with the wider-spaced barrels look better imho. Up to you though.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: FSW on December 11, 2013, 02:51:50 pm
Like Trivial Psychic, I much prefer the bulkier turrets (the ones that initially appear closer to the POV). They seem to fit the aesthetic of the ship better.

The sleek turrets look cool; perhaps too cool for the Deimos.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: CKid on December 11, 2013, 06:13:05 pm
I prefer the first set. More mean looking.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Rodo on December 11, 2013, 06:33:05 pm
Initiate vote initiative!

Angular vs blocky. GO.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: The Dagger on December 11, 2013, 06:42:56 pm
I vote for blocky turrets  :yes:. They look more in line with the rest of the model. Both look awesome though.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Luis Dias on December 12, 2013, 03:58:07 am
I change my mind, your comments are convincing me, I guess I am suffering from groupthink or whatever but I am inclined to agree with all who vote on the more blocky bezeled turrets.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Hades on December 12, 2013, 10:04:01 am
VA's box turrets won the round by a KNOCKOUT

Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Aesaar on December 12, 2013, 03:14:10 pm
Still prefer the angular ones.  These feel too much like light artillery, IMO.

If you delete the angular ones and don't keep them for something else, I'm going to be very cross.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: The_Force on December 12, 2013, 03:21:34 pm
Definitely like the boxy ones best.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Rodo on December 12, 2013, 03:40:39 pm
owww  :(
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Cobra on December 12, 2013, 04:56:30 pm
Still prefer the angular ones.  These feel too much like light artillery, IMO.

If the technobabble about these weapons are correct in any way, these things surpass artillery. :P
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Aesaar on December 12, 2013, 05:28:56 pm
I mean that they feel more like mid-range standoff weapons, not close range, relatively defensive ones.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on December 13, 2013, 09:57:49 am
The sleek-looking ones look like they belong on a Raynor or Titan. Rule of Cool also makes them look like they should shoot lasers or energy blobs rather than flak. The boxy ones look like they shoot flak cos science says so.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Aesaar on December 13, 2013, 11:33:21 am
Those do shoot blobs.  The Deimos multiparts aren't equipped with flak.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on December 13, 2013, 01:50:08 pm
Wuh? I thought the Deimos had top flak?
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Hades on December 13, 2013, 02:31:23 pm
Nope, the Deimos has all THTs in retail (Terran Huge Turret (greenblobs))
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Mito [PL] on December 13, 2013, 04:15:12 pm
People are arguing? You don't know which turret pattern to choose? MAKE 2 DEIMOSES - one with sleek turrets, second with boxies. How about it?  :pimp:
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Lc4Hunter on December 14, 2013, 02:59:39 am
Hy Hades.
I would prefer the turrets you had used before on the Deimos. The looked more like the rest of the Deimos, more elegant. You know what i mean? :)
These turrets of course look fine, but i would like to see them on my Icini :D
I think they should work fine there ;)

Can i maybe get one for testing how it looks? :D
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: esarai on December 14, 2013, 01:59:40 pm
Well I can say that while not as sleek as the old turrets, these new ones are a lot closer to the turret design on the original Deimos, which was cool to see.  I think both types look really cool regardless.  The angular ones are 'tech gone wild' and the front-heavy ones are 'maximum war machine.'  So whichever you want.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Hades on December 14, 2013, 03:56:30 pm
Hy Hades.
I would prefer the turrets you had used before on the Deimos. The looked more like the rest of the Deimos, more elegant. You know what i mean? :)
These turrets of course look fine, but i would like to see them on my Icini :D
I think they should work fine there ;)

Can i maybe get one for testing how it looks? :D
Absolutely! http://filesmelt.com/dl/DeimosTurret2.3ds

If you want the scaled up version (so that you don't have to guess the ingame sizing) I can send you the full scaled version of the model.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Lc4Hunter on December 16, 2013, 02:13:10 am
Thanks for the model Hades :)
I already upscaled it for fitting on the Iceni and i think it looks really really good there.
But i have to do some smaller modifications there because the polycount of over 2000 is a bit to high in my opinion.
But on the Deimos, i would prefer the previous Turret you had.
That fits more to the sleek and stylish form of the Deimos.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Hades on December 24, 2013, 12:06:01 am
Work on the bottom:

Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Alan Bolte on December 24, 2013, 02:16:28 am
For the most part I love it, but for some reason the two pipes running perpendicular to the other pipes irk me.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on December 24, 2013, 10:06:36 am
Man you do not get enough praise, that thing looks gorgeous!
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: DahBlount on December 24, 2013, 02:18:02 pm
Looks great! Are you going to add the second pair of frontal beams single-parts at some point?
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Ulala on December 26, 2013, 12:26:43 pm
That is one sexy ass Deimos.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Hades on January 04, 2014, 09:19:44 pm
OK, update. Most of the changes are around the rear and middle engines.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: DahBlount on January 04, 2014, 09:25:48 pm
It's beautiful, good job on the rear with those empty spots.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: An4ximandros on January 04, 2014, 09:58:41 pm
I hate to be that guy, but: The amount of greebles on this ship IS TOO DAMN HIGH!

Seriously, most of the work won't even be visible during gameplay... everyone except Quantum Delta will likely be too busy playing the missions to notice the details on the craft.

Mine 2 Cents.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Hades on January 04, 2014, 10:10:15 pm
I hate to be that guy, but: The amount of greebles on this ship IS TOO DAMN HIGH!

Seriously, most of the work won't even be visible during gameplay... everyone except Quantum Delta will likely be too busy playing the missions to notice the details on the craft.

Mine 2 Cents.
You're far more likely to see the details of the ship ingame than you are the details of a ship in a movie, but that didn't stop the people who created those models from stuffing tons of detail onto them.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Killer Whale on January 04, 2014, 11:31:04 pm
Missions are not always combatcombatcombat. You spend time waiting for the next hostile to arrive, listening to chatter or watching cutscenes (playable and not). During that time I tend to gawk at the various models around, see if I can't get off a screenshot or 2 and just feel that this game is awesome. So no, that detail does not go unnoticed, I promise you.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Terquotyl on January 05, 2014, 05:56:24 am
Missions are not always combatcombatcombat. You spend time waiting for the next hostile to arrive, listening to chatter or watching cutscenes (playable and not). During that time I tend to gawk at the various models around, see if I can't get off a screenshot or 2 and just feel that this game is awesome. So no, that detail does not go unnoticed, I promise you.
Very much this!

I don't know if I'm the only one who immediately makes a beeline for the Tech Room to stare in awe at The Pretty™ whenever he opens the game, but I bet there's a lot of us who like to gaze at all of the nebulas (nebulae?), ships and general awesomeness which is Freespace Open. One example which immediately comes to mind is The Sixth Wonder. I generally send off my minions to deal with the last wing or two before the arrival of the Colossus, simply because I love watching The Big Bads™ explode out of subspace in all their fury. That means I just sit there gazing at the general vicinity of the Hawkwood; the Deimos whom the NTF have carving up Enif Station into tiny little pieces. Sometimes I go for a close up view - others I just wait for the beams and the death and the explosion.


Seriously, most of the work won't even be visible during gameplay... everyone except Quantum Delta will likely be too busy playing the missions to notice the details on the craft.
:v: created something very special, and when the final contributor leaves Freespace Open a very big part of my childhood will die. I like to think that when I secure a full-time job I'll find the time to learn how to be a helpful member of the community and create something which others will enjoy. Until then, I'm deeply grateful for every last detail lovingly crafted on into this Deimos. Each bug fix, each new SEXP, each pipe on a model took time and effort. It might not be something that you personally will notice, but it's something which improves the overall quality of the game. I'm sure there's a campaign out there which would have been impossible without the work of the Source Code Project. Did you notice when those necessary SEXPs were created? Did you care? Probably not.

You're entitled to your two cents, but it's a shame you spend your time demoralizing those to who you have so much to be grateful for.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: An4ximandros on January 05, 2014, 06:23:13 am
Oh dear. You really misunderstood that. I merely wished to provide Hades with my opinion. Something which has been asked on the modelling forums in order to reach a model the majority will enjoy. While the artist has every right to make the final call on what goes in or out, providing an opinion that goes against his/hers is not meant as an insult or to be demoralizing. Everyone needs a slight dose of criticism in order to improve their craft and take it ways they may not consider otherwise.

Secondly, I appreciate the coding advances more that you think. The first thing I did when I ran Freespace 2 for the first time in my life was run the Original Game (without any upgrades whatsoever) and then the SCP with its most shining campaigns back to back. The massive difference is a testament to the willpower of the community's coders to continue improving on an engine that was not designed to age well ("Codethulu (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=81648.0;nowap)").

That was quite an assumption you made. And was, quite frankly, insulting in its written composition.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Skarab on January 05, 2014, 10:15:16 am
I have to disagree with the "too much detail" as well, not only for the previous reasons mentioned, but also because the Deimos is not some tiny fighter craft. It's a capital ship. In game, those details will not seem anywhere near as tiny as they do in a p3d preview window.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Luis Dias on January 05, 2014, 12:14:37 pm
Did you notice when those necessary SEXPs were created? Did you care? Probably not.

You're entitled to your two cents, but it's a shame you spend your time demoralizing those to who you have so much to be grateful for.

That escalated quickly. Chill out man, an4 is a good forumite and that was really unnecessary.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Dragon on January 05, 2014, 01:23:16 pm
I have to say, I like the new Deimos. It's perhaps the most overused FS2 ship out there, and this might manage to make the overuse bearable. :)
It is, in general, a rather boring, generic-looking ship. Yet, this version managed to be interesting to look at, and retain however little spirit the original model had.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: fightermedic on January 05, 2014, 02:57:46 pm
I have to say, I like the new Deimos. It's perhaps the most overused FS2 ship out there, and this might manage to make the overuse bearable. :)
that's simply because it and the other 2 corvettes are the only somewhat balanced capital ships in the game ;)
and i agree, if there is any ship where those details are not wasted, it's the deimos

have fun UV-mapping this monster though
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Rodo on January 05, 2014, 03:17:15 pm
have fun UV-mapping this monster though

I dread at the thought of uv'ing and texturing this monster.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Skarab on January 06, 2014, 11:51:16 am
If the end results shown by the excellent Medusa are any indication, I'd say it's in good hands.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: SypheDMar on January 07, 2014, 11:19:13 am
I have to say, I like the new Deimos. It's perhaps the most overused FS2 ship out there, and this might manage to make the overuse bearable. :)
that's simply because it and the other 2 corvettes are the only somewhat balanced capital ships in the game ;)
and i agree, if there is any ship where those details are not wasted, it's the deimos

have fun UV-mapping this monster though
if a beautiful model is finished but nobody wants to texture it because of Lots of greebles, that's when I say there's too many greebles.

Of course, this definition is entirely subjective and arbitrary and not-future-proof. So take it with a grain of salt. That said, I'd like to see a finished model. This is quite a piece already.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Phantom Hoover on January 07, 2014, 11:33:12 am
:v: created something very special, and when the final contributor leaves Freespace Open a very big part of my childhood will die. I like to think that when I secure a full-time job I'll find the time to learn how to be a helpful member of the community and create something which others will enjoy. Until then, I'm deeply grateful for every last detail lovingly crafted on into this Deimos. Each bug fix, each new SEXP, each pipe on a model took time and effort. It might not be something that you personally will notice, but it's something which improves the overall quality of the game. I'm sure there's a campaign out there which would have been impossible without the work of the Source Code Project. Did you notice when those necessary SEXPs were created? Did you care? Probably not.

You're entitled to your two cents, but it's a shame you spend your time demoralizing those to who you have so much to be grateful for.

Do not try to shame people for expressing constructive criticism. Especially do not do so in such a rambling and nonsensical way.

An4x: The Deimos is perhaps the single most prominent capital ship in FS2, and similarly for a lot of expansions. You spend a lot of time flitting about the hull of one in missions, so I think the detail will be appreciated.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Luis Dias on January 07, 2014, 12:14:48 pm
I agree, this model is probably the most important improvement the game will have in 2014.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: SypheDMar on January 07, 2014, 12:56:39 pm
If it gets done in 2014!
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Jadehawk on January 10, 2014, 06:15:54 pm
Just looked at this...man that's a stellar job! That front reminds me of that robot from that movie called The Iron Giant!  :D

Cant wait to see this workhorse completed!

All the Best,
Jadehawk
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Alan Bolte on February 03, 2014, 09:43:04 pm
I'm liking the new quad-flak turrets.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Hades on February 04, 2014, 01:50:00 am
Thank you. I need to reduce the polygons on its barrels but other than that, the main Deimos mesh itself is done. I'll need to find a suitably good texturer as I'll be uvmapping this too.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: DahBlount on January 04, 2016, 01:58:26 pm
:necro:

After much deliberation, Hades has given me the Deimos (UV Mapped by The Dagger, thanks friend) and I've started experimenting with colors in Quixel Suite.

(http://puu.sh/mjy5P/d3d7914b9f.png)
(http://puu.sh/mjzoU/5d46532b97.png)

Bit of wear and tear masking, makes the Deimos look a bit small unfortunately, will have to fiddle with it
(http://puu.sh/mjwSN/51c412ad04.png)

Expect detailing and proper color ID masking in the coming days/weeks.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: General Battuta on January 04, 2016, 02:19:30 pm
Yessssuufdudfuusufsdfshfkhfjsjhkdfskhjsssss
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: BirdofPrey on January 04, 2016, 02:26:29 pm
(http://puu.sh/mjwSN/51c412ad04.png)
Hades found it buried in his sandbox? :P
===
I look forward to seeing how this turns out. Always a shame to see nice models lie unused due to lacking textures *cough*Apollo*cough*
Is all that greebling on the bottom thruster really modeled, not just a normal mask?
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: General Battuta on January 04, 2016, 02:37:27 pm
Please don't change any subsystem/turret/dockpoint names
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: DahBlount on January 04, 2016, 02:38:55 pm
I look forward to seeing how this turns out. Always a shame to see nice models lie unused due to lacking textures *cough*Apollo*cough*
Is all that greebling on the bottom thruster really modeled, not just a normal mask?

It's all modeled, and it was probably a ***** to UV map, much like the girders on the Orion (Thanks HADES). Anyways, I've already tweaked the weathering to an ideal level.
(http://puu.sh/mjCI6/d6729950ff.png)

And the Apollo just needs to be UV Mapped afaik.

Please don't change any subsystem/turret/dockpoint names
Wasn't planning on it.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: CKid on January 04, 2016, 02:42:38 pm
Yes! My favorite warship looks so glorious! I have been waiting so long for this, can't believe it's finally happening!
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: BirdofPrey on January 04, 2016, 03:16:23 pm
It's all modeled, and it was probably a ***** to UV map, much like the girders on the Orion (Thanks HADES). Anyways, I've already tweaked the weathering to an ideal level.
I imagine so.
Looks better already (admittedly, some of it may also be the lighting; the earlier image looked kinda bronze partially due to the lighting.  This is also why it's sometimes hard to tell how good something looks before actually seeing it rendered in game)

Quote
And the Apollo just needs to be UV Mapped afaik.
Kinda what I was saying.  There's a few finished models still awaiting complete textures, and I was under the impression the Apollo hadn't gotten any texture work at all.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Galemp on January 04, 2016, 03:55:25 pm
oooh, pretty.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: The Dagger on January 04, 2016, 04:41:48 pm
It's all modeled, and it was probably a ***** to UV map, much like the girders on the Orion (Thanks HADES).
Actually, I'm pretty proud of the UV map :pimp:. It wasn't so hard to do, just really tedious. Luckily, this one doesn't really have much curves. Overall it took less than a week IIRC.

And the Apollo just needs to be UV Mapped afaik.
Hades, gib me.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Rodo on January 04, 2016, 04:45:56 pm
It looks beautiful!
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Hades on January 04, 2016, 04:53:41 pm
The Apollo still needs a modeled cockpit plus I'm not entirely happy with out parts like the main body came out, plus I need to also redo the canopy to be more bubble-like to fit the original Apollo. It's been on the backburner.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: tomimaki on January 04, 2016, 05:15:18 pm
 :jaw: Beauty
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Col.Hornet on January 04, 2016, 05:19:01 pm
You guys managed to uvmap it :D???? I'm impressed. The toughest part is behind you ;) Guess we won't have to worry about the final effect from now on.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Trivial Psychic on January 04, 2016, 06:07:28 pm
Is there gonna be a version with the side-mounted multi-part turrets to match the one on the box art?
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Dragon on January 04, 2016, 06:50:25 pm
Wow. The most overused FS2 ship at least looks good now. Not that it's much of an excuse to use it even more, but it's very pretty now. :) Great job, looking forward to seeing it fully textured. It captured the "essence" of the Deimos class very well.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: General Battuta on January 04, 2016, 07:16:39 pm
It's ~probably the best FS2 Terran warship to FRED with.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: DahBlount on January 04, 2016, 07:41:21 pm
Is there gonna be a version with the side-mounted multi-part turrets to match the one on the box art?

I was honestly unaware the Deimos had those on the box art. Learn something new every day I suppose.

Also, the fact that everyone says this thing is pretty even though I haven't even gotten to masking each color to specific parts of the model and doing the detail work surprises me. All I did was slap a Molybdenum and Thick Machine Paint material on! (With some masking work of course)
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: DahBlount on January 04, 2016, 08:00:59 pm
Hypothetical question: If Rga Noris were to finish his Moloch. Would anybody be interested in seeing a rerender of the FS2 box art using PBR materials in the Cycles rendering engine?
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: BirdofPrey on January 04, 2016, 08:25:23 pm
I'm not entirely happy with out parts like the main body came out, plus I need to also redo the canopy to be more bubble-like to fit the original Apollo.
Quiet you.
We do need a 2 seater variant so mjn has something to use for the updated cutscenes, though.

Also, the fact that everyone says this thing is pretty even though I haven't even gotten to masking each color to specific parts of the model and doing the detail work surprises me. All I did was slap a Molybdenum and Thick Machine Paint material on! (With some masking work of course)
Well, I at least only said it was better, but then I am salty like that.

Hypothetical question: If Rga Noris were to finish his Moloch. Would anybody be interested in seeing a rerender of the FS2 box art using PBR materials in the Cycles rendering engine?
Very much yes, though what i've really been hoping for is a remastered FS2 opening cutscene so that someone can do a remake of the trailer
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: TacOne on January 05, 2016, 06:13:20 am
That Deimos looks awesome, and that's just with the blank material. Can't wait for it to finish.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Dragon on January 05, 2016, 03:56:22 pm
Also, the fact that everyone says this thing is pretty even though I haven't even gotten to masking each color to specific parts of the model and doing the detail work surprises me. All I did was slap a Molybdenum and Thick Machine Paint material on! (With some masking work of course)
The model is just that good, I suppose. :) That's probably what is being praised, without textures you can see all the fine detailing, which becomes very subtle once textures are applied.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Trivial Psychic on January 05, 2016, 10:13:05 pm
Is there gonna be a version with the side-mounted multi-part turrets to match the one on the box art?
I was honestly unaware the Deimos had those on the box art. Learn something new every day I suppose.
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Freespacebox-1a.JPG)

Note the two flank-side turrets on the upper frontal segment near the dorsal turrets.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: DahBlount on January 05, 2016, 10:24:10 pm
Yes, I did my research.  :p
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: DahBlount on January 07, 2016, 06:25:33 pm
I've begun color masking the Deimos. I've used colors that are close to the retail/mvps colors to help me remember which paint color I need to use.

(http://puu.sh/mntM3/32550962a5.png)
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Nyctaeus on January 07, 2016, 06:38:40 pm
:yes:
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: DahBlount on January 07, 2016, 11:36:19 pm
It actually resembles a Deimos now.
(http://puu.sh/mnKpL/c7011c6b46.png)
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Rodo on January 08, 2016, 07:04:03 am
It's looking guud!
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: DahBlount on January 08, 2016, 03:33:15 pm
The main hull is now completely masked, I'm moving onto to the turrets, rebaking AO, then it's off to QS.
(http://puu.sh/mouMb/4d1f6eceb3.png)
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: StarSlayer on January 08, 2016, 05:25:55 pm
Purdy
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: CapellaGoBoom on January 10, 2016, 01:01:46 pm
looking forward to seeing the final version of this beauty!
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Col.Hornet on January 10, 2016, 01:22:30 pm
And I can't wait see the normal map. The results one can achieve with QS 2.0 can be astonishing :)
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: DahBlount on January 11, 2016, 11:08:26 pm
Imported into QS and smart materials made. Now it's time for detail work.

(http://puu.sh/msCAc/551c11053d.png)

(http://puu.sh/msCTv/94dcd91bca.png)
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Nyctaeus on January 12, 2016, 01:07:46 am
Outstanding :yes:

How are you going to make diffuse for this? As far as I know, there is no diffuse option in current quixel release. Hornet mentioned that it was present in previous version. Normal, pbr-maps etc. first, and diffuse later?
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: DahBlount on January 12, 2016, 01:37:34 am
The PBR equivalent of diffuse is Albedo. If you change the export target to specular non-pbr, it will export only the albedo, specular, and normal, with slight calibration changes to make the materials work in non-pbr setups.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on January 12, 2016, 03:18:57 am
All of my want. :yes:
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Rodo on January 12, 2016, 06:14:25 am
No you are wrong, it's not time to for detail work.

It's time to faint. For me at least.  :cool:
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Axem on January 12, 2016, 12:29:37 pm
As much as I do really like it (1000% yes), I'm finding the paint scheme a little busy. I get the reason to highlight the geometry, but maybe some of the areas of high contrast could be toned down a little bit?
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: StarSlayer on January 12, 2016, 01:21:11 pm
I dunno, it does look busy but once its been panel lined, had a coat of dark tone wash and a bit of weathering I think it will appear more homogeneous.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Axem on January 12, 2016, 01:39:49 pm
Yeah, I was thinking the problem might fix itself as the texturing process goes on. (In which case just ignore me...!  :warp: )
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: DahBlount on January 12, 2016, 05:26:36 pm
I'm gonna be using the paneling to generate weathering as well as offcoloring some of the plates of armor themselves. The normal Deimos won't have a lot of weathering because they're fairly new at the time of FS2(citation needed?) but have certainly seen some action. I will also make a heavily weathered variant for mods that take place further along the timeline (Inferno, BP, etc.) Hades has specified I leave out glows from the beam weapons but if there is a demand for it I will also include glowmaps where the beams have glows.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Axem on January 12, 2016, 05:47:40 pm
There's nothing that says when exactly Deimos corvettes were introduced just that "[t]hese sleek, ultra-modern warships are the products of a new era of ship design". I mean you can take ultra-modern from anywhere from "straight out of the shipyard" to "most advanced currently". And 18 months of beam warfare are going to certainly create a good amount of weathering...
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Hades on January 12, 2016, 06:15:10 pm
The Oxford dictionary has ultra modern as "extremely modern; advanced".

That being said, I'm not opposed to a weathered version being made for post-FS2 campaigns or for FS2 for those that want to use it, even if it's not my taste.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: General Battuta on January 12, 2016, 07:18:02 pm
It needs some weathering and space miles on it so it won't look like a toy. Right now all the panel lines grab my eye and fire it around about 15 places and then off away from the model. It's like a flowchart for how not to look at itself.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 12, 2016, 08:10:00 pm
It is Gallente.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: DahBlount on January 12, 2016, 10:06:24 pm
It needs some weathering and space miles on it so it won't look like a toy. Right now all the panel lines grab my eye and fire it around about 15 places and then off away from the model. It's like a flowchart for how not to look at itself.
Shivans will not know where to aim!
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Luis Dias on January 13, 2016, 11:28:08 am
The criticisms are absolutely OTT, imho. At the most, all of those concerns are easily solved by a slight toning down with the saturation with the base colors of each plate. The weathering will do the rest, nevermind the lighting of the windows, etc.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Hades on January 13, 2016, 09:07:39 pm
It needs some weathering and space miles on it so it won't look like a toy. Right now all the panel lines grab my eye and fire it around about 15 places and then off away from the model. It's like a flowchart for how not to look at itself.
That's not why it looks like a toy, it looks like a toy because it looks painted. Weathering and space miles on it at this stage would just make it look like a used diecast toy. It needs paneling, it needs more than a base coating to make it look less toy-like.

I also think it might help to solidify colors somewhat, we may have gone overboard on it.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Cobra on January 25, 2016, 11:59:14 pm
It is Gallente.

It makes so much sense, now! Maybe it's originally Caldari-made, and this is a Gallente variant. :P
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Cobra on April 26, 2016, 11:01:45 pm
Yo dawg. Whatever happened to the blount of dah?
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: DahBlount on April 26, 2016, 11:28:27 pm
Yo dawg. Whatever happened to the blunted darth?
Engineering school happened.

The semester is almost over, so I'll start back up again soon. Hopefully.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: DahBlount on May 22, 2016, 12:43:01 am
Things have gotten underway again with the help of a certain person.

Thankfully, the detail work to bake the normals is looking pretty good so far.
(http://puu.sh/p0Hpn/ab92888bc3.png)
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Trivial Psychic on May 22, 2016, 07:28:10 am
 :yes:
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Rodo on May 22, 2016, 11:04:55 am
Sexy.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Ulala on May 25, 2016, 08:40:13 pm
Looks lovely. :yes:
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: DahBlount on May 25, 2016, 10:07:28 pm
Finished the second plate on the side.
(http://puu.sh/p5m1R/de6d4fe6eb.png)
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Dragon on May 27, 2016, 07:56:50 am
I really like it. If it's going to be (over)used in just about every campaign out there, it might as well look pretty. :)

BTW, are those things above the panel escape pods? I didn't notice that detail before.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Jouzin on July 01, 2016, 02:42:17 am
Imported into QS and smart materials made. Now it's time for detail work.

(http://puu.sh/msCAc/551c11053d.png)

(http://puu.sh/msCTv/94dcd91bca.png)

Holy crap that is nice. When are you planning to finish this?
Btw what is QS 2.0?
Btw2 what software do you use for modelling, blender?
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: LaineyBugsDaddy on July 01, 2016, 10:32:52 am
Holy crap...Soon no more tielmapped ugliness...
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Luis Dias on July 01, 2016, 11:05:58 am
Soon (tm)
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: DahBlount on July 01, 2016, 03:30:24 pm
Holy crap that is nice. When are you planning to finish this?
Btw what is QS 2.0?
Btw2 what software do you use for modelling, blender?
1. QS 2.0 is the latest version of Quixel Suite, a Photoshop plugin that contains a fully scanned PBR material library and tools to paint directly on models using these materials with specially designed brushes as well as generate many different types of maps including normal, AO, cavity, etc. It's what the painted Deimos images were taken in.

2. I use Blender to model and bake detail maps.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Nyctaeus on November 06, 2019, 10:16:39 pm
:bump:

(https://i.imgur.com/xobTZ58.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/E56k70J.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/G5PEtQ4.png)
Obligatory necro for obvious reasons. It's ready and shall be available in upcoming MediaVPs.

And no :P. She has green beams by default. This one is Inferno variant.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: CapellaGoBoom on November 06, 2019, 10:44:16 pm
:bump:

(https://i.imgur.com/xobTZ58.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/E56k70J.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/G5PEtQ4.png)
Obligatory necro for obvious reasons. It's ready and shall be available in upcoming MediaVPs.

And no :P. She has green beams by default. This one is Inferno variant.


 :eek2: :eek2:
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Cobra on November 07, 2019, 03:05:27 am
While I dig the mesh, I don't particularly dig the spinal and flank textures. They're far too green compared to the source material.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Luis Dias on November 07, 2019, 03:38:20 am
I say publish it. If meanwhile someone has a better texture map, send it.


Oh, I forgot to say, what a beauty. Great work, everyone!  :yes:
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Nightmare on November 07, 2019, 05:00:28 am
I say publish it. If meanwhile someone has a better texture map, send it.

It would have to be edited in the source files or it'll have quality loss.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Luis Dias on November 07, 2019, 05:59:26 am
Well then, I'm sure Nyctaeus is generous enough to provide the psd or the xcf files to anyone who wants to make their own case, just ask him?
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: mjn.mixael on November 07, 2019, 06:53:29 am
Looks to be the right colors to me.

(https://wiki.hard-light.net/images/a/a9/Gtcvdeimos-old.jpg)
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Cobra on November 07, 2019, 06:56:20 am
Must've been my phone screen then, doesn't look as super-green on the PC.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Mito [PL] on November 07, 2019, 07:26:26 am
For some reason, the GTVA warships tend to look funny from the front to me.
Hidden Text: Show
(https://i.imgur.com/G5PEtQ4.png)


(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5e/93/dc/5e93dc6bc220233797ef7cc6e61c3b92.jpg)

(https://img.pixers.pics/pho_wat(s3:700/FO/29/93/88/15/700_FO29938815_5357269ce0be9ba948a22fc50159e0ec.jpg,700,465,cms:2018/10/5bd1b6b8d04b8_220x50-watermark.png,over,480,415,jpg)/wall-murals-old-tractor.jpg.jpg)

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/9374fb8bd82fd8eefb48c16e1393017a/tumblr_inline_pf6l91J4t91umirbg_540.png)
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Nightmare on November 07, 2019, 08:19:48 am
...so that's where they got the inspiration from...
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Nyctaeus on November 07, 2019, 08:32:40 am
I extracted RGB values straight from MVP tiles, along with patterns of plating lines. I textured her with old HTL Deimos on second screen, so except for some custom ideas I wanted, she is 95% matching to older mesh. When I examined Hades' mesh I quickly realized that it inherited lots of ideas from older Deimos so I followed this as general direction.

Results will always differ a bit from retail also because nature of PBR and FSO lighting code. PBR surfaces react differently to environment conditions compared to vanilla textures.

As for the front: She is cute, isn't she :P ?
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on November 07, 2019, 08:51:49 am
It seems to me that as a community, we *might* have a bit of a "face-ship" (or ship-face?) problem.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: mjn.mixael on November 07, 2019, 08:52:49 am
ship face pr0n

I don't appreciate your judgement.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on November 07, 2019, 11:33:00 am
It seems to me that as a community, we *might* have a bit of a "face-ship" (or ship-face?) problem.

...

Hidden Text: Show
(https://bscfza.dm.files.1drv.com/y4pBeH_gdavvCyQWWaZLw2vLsylJubcjMzQ3-LRCXPaKBQMWcIq9vXRgn40R2zSd9LjrwsBR3RcBkCXLYrVbB0gQA-qkCFjIdUXKkH6jq9OPsG7Q4lqmqcXCrL6gYIMdXfj1gBFcWf4FXQLsy1z7tWrnKE60sjtFthjeCuiSBCvtgPcONzGmpEadXhKSlcd-JB0vPtjlc1G30h_y1_xO4eULcyY0GpYZp594Fyudg7Ucyg/stupid_012.png)
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Commander Zane on November 07, 2019, 04:44:51 pm
That's hot. This gives me hope for the Orion.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Hades on November 08, 2019, 07:41:20 am
Looks good! Only kind of weird thing is the darker grey texture on the head, front, and sides being green instead but that's really not a big issue.
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on November 09, 2019, 05:46:04 am
I actually quite like the beam cannons, but I sometimes wonder if the glow ring would make any sense in a real-life military setting. The size of the cannon seems fitting for the size of the beam but I think the glow ring makes it stand out like a dart board, as if it's inviting the enemy to bomb it.

This would tactically make the Moloch more dangerous since its front eye is a laser turret - the real fire is down below. :drevil:
Title: Re: GTCv Deimos
Post by: Alan Bolte on November 10, 2019, 12:19:26 am
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤