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Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: StarSlayer on January 11, 2013, 12:25:59 pm

Title: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: StarSlayer on January 11, 2013, 12:25:59 pm
New RPG in development from them folks who made Witcher:

The Teaser (http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/ggv6jv/cyberpunk-2077-debut-teaser)

Got a bit of a GITS vibe.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: The E on January 11, 2013, 12:35:17 pm
It has more of a Blade Runner/Neuromancer/Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0 vibe to me
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Suongadon on January 11, 2013, 12:43:09 pm
2015 is way too far away. Want now. :(

also: sekret message! Witcher 3 announcement on the 5th of Feb. Woo!
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: SpardaSon21 on January 11, 2013, 01:09:41 pm
I'd say day 1 purchase, but 2015 is a really, really long ways away. :p
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Rhys on January 14, 2013, 10:16:15 pm
I'd say day 1 purchase, but 2015 is a really, really long ways away. :p

2 years isn't so bad! At least we can rest assured that CD Projekt will put more care into the game as opposed to the big publishers not worrying about quality, and only worrying about the release date.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: achtung on February 02, 2013, 07:21:29 pm
I'm very excited about this. I'll be keeping really close tabs on it.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: SpardaSon21 on February 02, 2013, 08:35:58 pm
Yeah, it does look pretty sweet.  Thanks to me getting really hyped at some point I ended up downloading the books to see what cyberware options I would hopefully end up having in Cyberpunk 2077.  There's a lot of awesome stuff like speedware, boosterware, and the combined booster that I'm sad I can't get now.  I'd love to have epically boosted reflexes on-demand. :(  The Chromebook 2 supplement also has some, to put it mildly, "exotic" options for character customization.  I really doubt we'll end up seeing those though for a variety of reasons (time, resources, potential for ridiculous backlash), which is a shame since you can't have a depraved, amoral future without the opportunity for things like that. :(
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: newman on February 04, 2013, 09:50:04 am
Well, they already made two games I liked a lot - Witcher 1 and 2 - and I also love stuff like Blade Runner or Ghost in the Shell, so all the ingredients for an epic game are there. Let's just hope they deliver.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Luis Dias on February 04, 2013, 10:04:53 am
Will it have 3 endings?
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: FlamingCobra on February 13, 2013, 01:42:02 am
It looks like my dream is finally coming true. Except it's not made by Rockstar. I just hope I will be able to hijack flying cars.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: FireSpawn on February 13, 2013, 11:53:01 am
Will it have 3 endings?

Ooooh, let's hope they each have their own colour. I'm partial to red, blue and gree-...

(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/28516157.jpg)
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Mikes on February 20, 2013, 03:13:04 pm
CD Project Red is not Bioware...     and so that there is no doubt, I consider that an incredibly good thing, even though I still like and enjoy Bioware games.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: 0rph3u5 on August 28, 2018, 06:13:44 am
Gameplay:




Personally, I really don't like the first person ... Part of me just doesn't buy the "maximum immersion"-tagline and another just doesn't like first person categorically (I can tolerate if the rest of game is good)

... but other than that looks interesting



wow, this has been over 5 and a half years since the teaster
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Spoon on August 28, 2018, 06:52:39 am
Looks like deus ex hr, but with tits.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Darius on August 28, 2018, 10:11:14 am
I find first person camera to be awkward in general, and it's particularly bad in judging distances for melee and platforming. That aside, the game looks exactly what I need right now.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: manwiththemachinegun on August 28, 2018, 11:33:15 am
There's so much detail and personality packed into that world. I love it.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: The E on August 28, 2018, 12:23:49 pm
I am a big fan of the soundtrack.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: manwiththemachinegun on August 28, 2018, 01:29:58 pm
Looks like deus ex hr, but with tits.

You say that like it's a bad thing.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Spoon on August 29, 2018, 06:30:41 am
Looks like deus ex hr, but with tits.

You say that like it's a bad thing.
Tits are never a bad thing.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: 0rph3u5 on August 29, 2018, 07:22:54 am
Looks like deus ex hr, but with tits.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

I'm suprised to hear you say that, considering you too frequent the WoD board... Spoon's appriciation of the "female form" should be out of the question (too bad he can't be bothered with the aestehtic of "male form" - there I said it)okay that was unhelpful - sorry
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Spoon on August 29, 2018, 07:49:54 am
I'm suprised to hear you say that, considering you too frequent the WoD board... Spoon's appriciation of the "female form" should be out of the question (too bad he can't be bothered with the aestehtic of "male form" - there I said it)okay that was unhelpful - sorry
^ Exactly what 0rph3u5 said.

 :lol:
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: General Battuta on August 29, 2018, 09:25:03 pm
I like at but at the same time it's just so...extremely, exactly, stereotypically cyberpunk. It's not something new the way Witcher was, like, ye olde fantasy but with a new interesting Polish take on Tolkien. It's mirrorshades and street samurai and making the Straylight run. Given that we've had some fascinating post-cyberpunk lately (Blade Runner 20whatever) that's a little disappointing.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: karajorma on August 29, 2018, 10:01:54 pm
The source material for the game is so old that they had to change the name of the game. No one would get hyped for Cyberpunk 2013. It literally was one of the first  (if not the first) cyberpunk RPGs so while I get your point, complaining about it not being fresh because everyone else has done something similar does seem similar to complaining that it would be pointless to make a Lord of the Rings film since it is just generic fantasy and people have done that before.

If CDPR had decided to create their own cyberpunk universe and it wasn't any different I'd be disappointed. But instead, they've gone to one of the granddaddies of the genre and asked to create that universe in a game. It's what they did so brilliantly in The Witcher so I'm not hugely upset they are doing it again.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Luis Dias on August 30, 2018, 05:16:42 am
No, I agree with Battuta. My overall feel about this whole thing has been BORING from the start. It says nothing new so far. It might be a great game, good mechanics and a good cyberpunk GTA and so on, but I'm merely like "yeah and?". I'm BORED. It seems cynical and meaningless.

Gimme something, CDPR. Something to care about. Some actual beauty. Something that despite all the ugliness of Gibsonesque proportions makes me want to fight for it. Because as far as I've seen, all you have shown us is how you were able to build an incredible trope-filled dystopic cyberpunkian world that I just want to burn all down to shreds.

No, I'm not interested in joining the mafia. But I would, if I had to in order to get the tools I needed to save or create something beautiful. See what I mean? It's like, Ghost in the Shell is already more than 20 years old. I'm not saying anything remotely insightful here. But the demo only tries to show how incredibly detailed and fluid and amazing this awful, horrible world is like.

A Thanos procedure here would feel kind of generous and not good enough.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 30, 2018, 05:44:51 am
I quite like this.  GTA Deus Ex isn't a bad thing.  Boobs make it better.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: The E on August 30, 2018, 07:02:39 am
No, I agree with Battuta. My overall feel about this whole thing has been BORING from the start. It says nothing new so far. It might be a great game, good mechanics and a good cyberpunk GTA and so on, but I'm merely like "yeah and?". I'm BORED. It seems cynical and meaningless.

At this point, I feel it's a bit premature to call the whole thing boring and trite and cliche yet. It could very well be all of those things, but I think this complaining about Cyberpunk being exactly like Cyberpunk is a bit like complaining that Gandalf had a boring robe and pointy hat costume in Lord of the Rings.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: 0rph3u5 on August 30, 2018, 07:19:29 am
I like at but at the same time it's just so...extremely, exactly, stereotypically cyberpunk.

I agree with your sentiment, but I also would like to bring a counterpoint:

I find that Cyberpunk, even the close to the source-kind, has not really been that represented. (Yes, there a number of good games in the indie scene but by definition their impact is limited.)
When we now get a back to the roots of the genre game, it might help to lay out the fundamentals of genre to an unexposed audience - both on the consumer and the creator-side.

If you allow the metaphor: It can be soil form which better things may grow.



It seems cynical and meaningless.

Gimme something, CDPR. Something to care about. Some actual beauty. Something that despite all the ugliness of Gibsonesque proportions makes me want to fight for it. Because as far as I've seen, all you have shown us is how you were able to build an incredible trope-filled dystopic cyberpunkian world that I just want to burn all down to shreds.

No, I'm not interested in joining the mafia. But I would, if I had to in order to get the tools I needed to save or create something beautiful. See what I mean?

No, I don't. See, Years ago, I have come to realize that most games so far fail to deliver a true tragedy, instead delivering the things you describe.
Of course, games have utilized the tools of the tragedy - they are littered with Impossible Choices, Rug-pull Moments and Sacrifices. But they rarely utilize them in the manner of the tragedy: For games a tragic moment is catapult, to vault you to even greater heights of empowerment and control without losing a step in the process.
But rarely do all your efforts as player ammount to nothing, seldom all your accomplishments remain as meaningless on the last day as they were on the first day, and nearly never virtue falls back into the ash from which it was molded.

And even rarer is the healing that seeing the failure of hero can bestow.
In a tragedy you don't tear down a hero to deconstruct their heroism intellectually, for the hollow pleasures of shadenfreude, or because we could not abide a hero in their purity: It is about us, who sit as audience to the act; to make us see that can project all our own wishes into a heroic figure but even those cannot run or fight the most basic of inadequcies - which they share with us.
This is meant to make us, as the audience, whole and at peace with ourselves. Fostering the simple acceptance acceptance of our limitations and in turn giving us new apprication of the power we do have.


While I personally think such a style always be accompanied by media that calls us to action in equal measure, there is a point that right now might be the best time to champion this kind of narrative: We are surrounded by monsters of our own collective impotences with seemingly no way out.

We called out for saviors,
we grasped at nothingsness for something to hold,
we kicked at the void for somewhere to stand.

If we could stop that and endure that it does not, never has and never will serve us.
Then we might just realize the power of our voices, the strength in our arms and reach of our stride.
We could finally make.



*blinks* *shakes head*
Sorry, kinda went of the rails there for a moment....
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 30, 2018, 10:37:09 am
I think it's hard for CDPR to capture the essence of a sprawling RPG title in a 48-minute tech demo - and moreover to do it without giving away key components of the game.  And given the writing brilliance on display in the Witcher 3, in particular, I'm willing to absolutely give this studio the benefit of the doubt.  It's far too early to call it boring.

Look at The Witcher 3.  If you judged the entire game from a hour-long tech demo set in White Orchard and Velen, it might also come off as a little boring, and little samey, nothing really that new and explosive.  To really understand the brilliance of that game, you need to sink 10 or 20 hours in.... and the next 200 will go buy in a flash (I am STILL not finished Blood and Wine, and I'm now past 300 hours in the game).

There's also the fact that we're starting anew with a more Bethesda-style concept of "here's a pretty generic character, go forth and make him/her your own" than an established character in a well-established universe.  Ultimately, it looks like a lot of System Shock meets Deus Ex meets Deus Ex HR meets crazy-good Polish studio and I, at least, am happy to see where this goes.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Mpez on August 30, 2018, 04:43:07 pm
This will be interesting. Cyberpunk 2020 was probably one of the 3 most popular paper rpgs in Poland back in the day (next to Warhammer and Call of Cthulhu, d&d wasn't popular). It basically has a cult status for Polish rpg nerds who are like 30-40 now in the same way that the Witcher book series has a cult status for Polish fantasy lovers. Some of cdp writers were part of the rpg fandom back in the days, e.g. Marcin Blacha the lead writer cocreated a Polish rpg magazine which heavily featured Cyberpunk. So it's a second time that they are creating a game in a setting that is really precious to them.

What I'm curious about is how much of the Polish perspective and non-western non-cliche ideas they will bring to this setting. Growing up in post-communist Poland gives you an interesting perspective on dystopian settings, so I'm wondering if this will have an effect on the story. If not then we will have a Deus Ex clone which I'm also kinda ok with.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: manwiththemachinegun on September 07, 2018, 07:44:21 pm
Like you do realize the pathetically small chunk of games out there that ACTUALLY explore a cyberpunk setting right?

Like, ok, it may not be your cup of tea. But I could just as easily say, "oh GREAT, another standard sci-fi sim game with fighters, and bombers and capships. BORED. Give me something new!"

It says more about what you feel about the setting that what ProjektRed is actually doing with the game. Which seems pretty slick, and as you self admitted, will likely be a fun game. Even if YOU don't like the aesthetics.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Luis Dias on September 07, 2018, 10:12:37 pm
Yeah I guess you're right.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Blake00 on September 15, 2018, 02:23:02 pm
Is it sad that I've watched the 45 min Cyberpunk gameplay footage like 3 times now lol? I just can't get enough of it. For those that got bored I should point out it gets way better after the opening 10-15min mission. Takes me back to so many films like blade Runner, Minority Report, Judge Dread 90s and especially 2012 version, 5th element etc. Reminds me that I need to check out that recent cyberpunk TV show called Altered Carbon! Mates keep talking about it being really good.

I play a lot of futuresynth, 80s synth, retro synth music on youtube (https://blakessanctum.wordpress.com/2018/08/20/awesome-retro-80s-futuresynth-music/) and the videos are often accompanied by cool animations of retro futuristic cars driving through cyberpunk style dystopian cities at night with glowing blue and purple nights. In the Cyberpunk 2077 gameplay footage when you see them get in the retro sportscar and drive around the city GTA5 style I knew right away that there's gonna be moments where I break off from the main game just go for a drive at night playing some tunes haha.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 15, 2018, 06:55:27 pm
I'll be doing the very same no doubt.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Blake00 on June 10, 2019, 02:42:05 am
OMFG!!! Just as I'd hoped there's a new Cyberpunk 2077 video for E3!!!! Last year I wanted more Blade runner night city stuff and sure enough we got to see that in this one!! and now they've bagged some celebrities too! ;)

Apparently real life Keanu Reeves walked out on to the E3 stage right after this went down and people went nuts lol!

Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: 0rph3u5 on June 10, 2019, 03:05:55 am
1:39+ in this video:

He really had fun overacting that marketing copy.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Luis Dias on June 11, 2019, 03:32:31 am
Gotta love Keanu, such an amazing dude :D.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Blake00 on August 10, 2019, 01:18:03 am
Apparently the full big gameplay footage they privately showed at E3 will be out soon publicly at Gamescon. Can't wait to sit down and take it all in like I did with the last big 45min one haha.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Blake00 on September 13, 2019, 08:12:45 am
Sadly it looks like they decided not to show that private E3 gameplay demo however they've made a new 15min 'Deep dive' video for Gamescon followed by a half hour Q&A session with the Devs. Man that nethacker whip thing looks awesome!

Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: theperfectdrugsk on September 13, 2019, 08:22:51 am
Ahh cyberpunk.   Haha, I'm like...midway between "I might buy a new computer to run it" excited and Fallout 76 levels of "probably-will-suck."
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: The E on September 13, 2019, 08:42:02 am
Ahh cyberpunk.   Haha, I'm like...midway between "I might buy a new computer to run it" excited and Fallout 76 levels of "probably-will-suck."

Well, CDPR is many things but they are not Bethesda trying to turn a game series known for intricate single-player stories into a multiplayer loot shooter.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: theperfectdrugsk on September 13, 2019, 08:46:00 am
Oh yeah for sure.  I'm more just worried about the level of hype y'know?
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: The E on September 13, 2019, 02:56:33 pm
..... Fallout 76 had hype?
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: theperfectdrugsk on September 13, 2019, 02:59:04 pm
FO76 was a bad example.  My brain hadn't coffee'd yet.  FO76 levels of disappointment I think is what I was trying to say.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Blake00 on September 21, 2020, 11:00:02 am
Have been drooling over all the videos CD Projekt Red have been releasing on youtube lately. Eg just look at the amazing views of the huge city in this one!


Over the last few months they’ve been doing a really good behind the scenes series called ‘Night City Wire’ with heaps of amazing new gameplay footage. Here’s the first few episodes!




.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 21, 2020, 11:02:00 am
Any idea what the spec requirements will be?
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: The E on September 21, 2020, 11:26:46 am
According to a 2-second googling and CDPR:

Minimum:

OS: Windows 7 or 10, 64-bit
Processor: Intel Core i5-3570K or AMD FX-8310
Memory: 8GB RAM
Graphics: Nvidia GeForce GTX 780 3GB or AMD Radeon RX 470
DirectX: Version 12
Storage: 70 GB HDD, SSD recommended

Recommended:

OS: Windows 10, 64-bit
Processor: Intel Core i7-4790 or AMD Ryzen 3 3200G
Memory: 12GB RAM
Graphics: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060 6GB or AMD Radeon R9 Fury
DirectX: Version 12
Storage: 70 GB SSD
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 21, 2020, 12:35:53 pm
I could've googled it but this way was marginally more social 😜. Anyone still play elite dangerous by the way?
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Strygon on September 22, 2020, 10:07:33 am
Yoi, still playing E:D from time to time.

As for Cyberpunk 2077, I'm eagerly expecting its release though it will also be my first played CDPR title.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Blake00 on November 10, 2020, 08:12:26 am
Looks like Night City Wire Episode 4 came out a little while back..


Along with yet ANOTHER delay announcement lol! Doesn't bother me as like I said previously I don't have a computer that can run it anyway haha. Apparently the devs have been getting death threats from impatient wackos out there though which is a bit messed up!

Maybe all those impatient ones should check out what I just found... Today I noticed a review in a recent PC Gamer magazine of a small indie game called 'Cloudpunk' that has you piloting a flying taxi around a rainy cyberpunk city at night. Looks and sounds awesome as that cockpit has massive Blade Runner vibes, the taxi reminds me of 5th Element and that creepy stormy sky reminds me of Highlander 2 lol!

Apparently there's not much depth to the gameplay sadly as it's more about immersion. However considering I was more looking forward to driving around Cyberpunk 2077's city at night listening to synth tunes instead of just running around shooting people then I suspect this little game will be right up my alley haha! Apparently you get your own apartment in a sky scraper with a balcony looking over the city that you can decorate and play retro video games in, so hmm yup that's got me written all over it too lol! Although yet again my old computer probably can't even run this one either arrrgh haha!


(http://gamechronicles.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/cloudpunk1.jpg)
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Luis Dias on November 10, 2020, 08:57:15 am
Funny to realise the first post in this thread is from 2013, when they launched the teaser. This game will have been in development for 10 years.

e: I'm getting some weird "We can do anything in Star Citizen Universe!" vibes from all of these videos.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: The E on November 10, 2020, 10:29:04 am
Funny to realise the first post in this thread is from 2013, when they launched the teaser. This game will have been in development for 10 years.

Difference being, of course, that in between 2013 and now CDPR actually released a whole other game.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Colonol Dekker on November 10, 2020, 10:36:07 am
Funny to realise the first post in this thread is from 2013, when they launched the teaser. This game will have been in development for 10 years.

Difference being, of course, that in between 2013 and now CDPR actually released a whole other game.

Plus dlc👍
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Luis Dias on November 10, 2020, 11:18:20 am
I wasn't criticizing, just noticing. These "we will never crunch oh wait we will crunch after all" guys are at least competent in releasing really good quality games.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: karajorma on December 09, 2020, 07:31:05 pm
Seems to be working. Had a quick play before work. Looks awesome.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: General Battuta on December 11, 2020, 01:19:59 am
Hog out or log out, hacker
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: The E on December 11, 2020, 03:42:24 am
Been playing it a couple hours now; all of these opinions are still in the process of being made.

TL;DR: I like it, but this isn't the Greatest Game Ever (TM) (R) (C)


Longer:
Okay, so, let's get the bad things out the way first: This game is janky as ****. There are glitches all over the place, most of them in the "annoying but handleable" range: Objects that mysteriously float in the air; things dropping out the sky for no apparent reason, that sort of thing.
But there's a deeper level of jank that I think won't be fixable, and that's due to the way the systems in this game don't seem to be very well thought out. There's an extensive leveling and perk system, pages of skill trees and things, and little to reason to interact with them. The effects of leveling up a given attribute are so granular that it's hard to tell whether there was any effect at all.
There's a crafting system for some reason, but using it is a trap, since the game's loot system (and it is a loot system, make no mistake; everything is color-coded by rarity), is like a gimped version of Borderland's "tons of random guns" system ... except not as fun, so anything you have now might be invalidated with the very next mission you go on.
Driving feels bad on mouse and keyboard, and just sort of approaches tolerable with a gamepad. Combat doesn't feel good either; even the Deus Ex reboot games had better gunplay.

In other words, this is a CDPR game on the mechanical side.

Its saving grace is that it is also a CDPR game on the writing side. It takes a while for a theme to emerge (it only happens after the introductory stuff is out the way and Keanu Reeves starts living rent-free in your head), but I'm curious to see how the game is going to develop it down the line.
My biggest complaint about the writing is that it hasn't developed a reason for this game to by cyberpunk beyond the purely superficial trappings of neon, chrome, dirt and flying cars. Make no mistake, that surface is incredible to look at: this is a game with remarkably dense visuals, but for the moment, it just seems to be a surface. Cyberpunk 2020, the TTRPG, had a tagline of "style over substance", and this is following in those footsteps. It is a very safe game in many aspects: There's a "corporations bad" thing going on, but the corporations in question are so comically evil that anyone who isn't a hardcore ancap would agree.
However, this is big picture stuff that is just based on my impressions right now; there's still tons of content left to explore and maybe the depth I'm looking for is somewhere in there.

One standout thing in this is the game's voice cast (with one exception): They're all really good. The actress playing female V made me feel emotions for a character I only knew for an hour or two, and that's definitely an achievement.
The one exception is Keanu Reeves: His introductory ... bit, I guess? ... is very rough indeed, very much "Keanu Reeves plays Keanu Reeves playing an asshole"; it smoothes out a bit later on, but hooo boy that early performance is not good.


Overall: Yeah, I like this game so far, but temper your expectations.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: The E on December 11, 2020, 05:26:27 am
Oh, and here's something profoundly weird.

Cyberpunk is one of the big showcase titles for Raytracing. However, unlike Control, which also used RT to do reflections, you never see your own character reflected anywhere, except mirrors you manually trigger.

V stands for Vampire. Pass the word.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Nyctaeus on December 12, 2020, 06:00:36 am
For those who want to buy on GOG, don't. At least for now, but in 2-3 weeks the situation should be more stable. Their infrastructure is completely overloaded, money transfers may get lost in limbo and you will wait many days for your delivery. I'm waiting third o__O.

Apparently CDPR failed to prepare enough hardware for massive incrase of activity... Or straightforward ignored potential need.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: The E on December 12, 2020, 06:17:41 am
I am now 25 hours in, and have gotten through a large chunk of the story.

In those hours, I have:
* Upgraded my cyberware twice
* Crafted a thing once
* Actually engaged with the perk system never (I did put points into things, but neither my playstyle nor my experience of the game actually changed)

This is really bad for a game as big as this. It speaks to development ressources being spent on systems for the sake of having systems, with no real game design or mission balancing going on.

As for the story...
Spoiler:
I think I have a handle on the themes now. Everyone in Night City is lonely and miserable; Night City takes your dreams and spits them in your face. V wishes to be a legend, the best; Night City makes sure they are by putting a legend in their head that is slowly but surely killing them.
The thing is .... this is presented with a weird sort of indifference. Yeah, there's Johnny Silverhand ranting about burning the city down, but he is literally trapped in its systems of power; he rebels against being a puppet, but he's just a tool like everyone else. V (depending on how you play them) can care about people, but can't actually do anything about their misery; There is no revolution at the end of the tunnel, just a struggle for survival against the onrushing train.

There are still neat and weird bits in there that make this game interesting to play, its world interesting to experience. But, at the end of the day, I don't think this game has a whole lot to say for itself. It's at the same time overly ambitious in its tech and not ambitious enough in its writing; where Rockstar took the canvas of Red Dead and spun an epic morality tale where every single scene was infused with that game's themes, Cyberpunk ends up as a portrayal of life in a dystopian, careless future -- and with no real energy behind its protesting of this dystopia.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: DefCynodont119 on December 12, 2020, 07:30:09 pm
Cyberpunk ends up as a portrayal of life in a dystopian, careless future -- and with no real energy behind its protesting of this dystopia.

A bit off topic, but this made me think of that "the art of saying nothing" video. It's about a different game, sure. But it kinda reverberates with the main point, they don't really protest things in big AAA titles these days:
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: karajorma on December 13, 2020, 02:23:46 am
Except of course if the point is that no one cares about protesting the horrible world they live in.

Spoiler:
Hence the juxtapose between the "terrorist" Johnny Silverhands who hated the entire corporate world with a passion and V who starts out pleased to finally make it into the big leagues.[/quote]
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Luis Dias on December 14, 2020, 09:42:43 am
Not saying something is never the same as saying that this something isn't being said.

Not saying something is, always, just not saying it.


But, at the end of the day, I don't think this game has a whole lot to say for itself. It's at the same time overly ambitious in its tech and not ambitious enough in its writing; where Rockstar took the canvas of Red Dead and spun an epic morality tale where every single scene was infused with that game's themes, Cyberpunk ends up as a portrayal of life in a dystopian, careless future -- and with no real energy behind its protesting of this dystopia.


This strikes me as completely on par with my expectations for years now, by merely watching the trailers and the discussion around the game.

This has also been my main reason for skipping this game entirely, its meaninglessness and washed-up recycled aesthetics that just exist by and for themselves, an aesthetic that had political meaning before I was even born and is now just a cool retrosynthwave cool neon thing.

I might agree with Karajorma if the main point of the game is to show how everyone who enjoys this game is as shallow and hopelessly driven to shiny shallow meaningless neon things as the game itself is, a kind of self-deprecating big joke, a 2020 irony engine fueled by synthwave.

I'd even argue that the "consumers" know this as well, given the amount of ironic disdain and distance they keep from their shiny new product they were just gushing over for years on end, spreading memes about its technical failures and bugs. I have yet to encounter just a simple wholesome CP2077 meme. No, it's just people mocking it, its shiny colorful raytraced bugs. They may resent the reviewers who were "meh"-ing the game with death threats all they want, but their resentment betrays the disappointment.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: karajorma on December 14, 2020, 11:01:50 am
The point were someone who hasn't even played the game thinks they can comment on it, is the point where I decide there's little worth listening to in their comment.


The memes I've made or spread have also been mocking the technical bugs cause they are ****ing funny! The game might be buggy as hell but I'm absolutely loving it. I'm not spreading positive stuff cause it would be massively full of spoilers. And this game should be experienced, not talked about. There are plenty of missions with as much if not more depth than stuff in Witcher 3
Spoiler:
The second missions with the married politicians or with River are both missions which I started playing a little late and then kept me glued to the game far later than I planed to stay up playing it.


I honestly have no idea what game The E is playing but given that he isn't interested in modding his character, he might actually be completely the wrong audience for this game. First thing I did was give myself mantis blades and high jumping ability and bound along the rooftops as a new breed of superhero. I'm not here to play shiny GTA. I'm here to mod the hell out of my character like you should in a cyberpunk game.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: The E on December 14, 2020, 11:24:05 am
(in response to luis)

Don't get me wrong, for all that I am criticizing this game, there still are good things to find in here. The characters are very well written and drawn, and there are some stories in here that are good fun.

But those things can't hold up a game that is plagued by this many issues, both in terms of genuine bugs and baffling design missteps. It kinda reminds me of Dontnod's Remember Me: It, too, promised a lot and delivered not a whole lot (Although it has to be said that Remember Me was probably a more successful game in terms of what it wanted to be vs what it actually turned out to be than Cyberpunk is).

I don't wish CDPR ill, I really don't. But a release this bad, this outright deceptive should absolutely be taken as a springboard to question these notions of them being a "good" developer, a "gamer's first" developer, cos this game is about as broken on about as many levels as Mass Effect Andromeda was, and last I checked we haven't forgiven Bioware for that yet, have we.

Spoiler:
The second missions with the married politicians or with River are both missions which I started playing a little late and then kept me glued to the game far later than I planed to stay up playing it.

These are absolutely highlights of the game. They're great missions, great stories!
They should just be in a better game.

Quote
I honestly have no idea what game The E is playing but given that he isn't interested in modding his character, he might actually be completely the wrong audience for this game. First thing I did was give myself mantis blades and high jumping ability and bound along the rooftops as a new breed of superhero.

Okay, that's cool. One question though: Did that open up any gameplay routes for you that weren't open before?
With upgrades like that, I would expect the mission design and level design to take them into account, to reward you for making that investment in some way. If I spec into wall-punching in Deus Ex, I know I'll be getting access to a bunch of routes I wasn't able to get to before; Does installing a high jump mod do the same here? Not to the best of my knowledge.
My complaint here is that the game is terrible about communicating the benefits of a given upgrade. Everything in it, every single encounter, is balanced around the player doing nothing but the bare minimum required to invest in these systems (that the AI is terrible and frequently glitches out or doesn't react to your presence at all does not help); as a result, the only reason to invest in these systems is for the cool factor of "my arms are katanas now".
I'm absolutely interested in modding characters, that's always cool to do, but doing so here doesn't convey much beyond pure self-actualization. I would like some game design to go with my upgrades, basically.

As for me being the wrong audience for this game: Please. I absolutely love myself a huge slab of open world game with good writing. I fundamentally like Cyberpunk 2077 despite all its faults, I do not regret buying or playing it, and I am interested in seeing what CDPR are going to do with it in the future.
I just feel that it could have been much better, and that its faults show a .... carelessness in game design that other studios operating in roughly the same realm have done a much better job with than CDPR did here.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 14, 2020, 12:21:14 pm
I played about 1.5 hours worth. It didn't hook me. I'm not saying it's a bad game, by any means. I'm sure there's plenty of fun to be had... but for all the hype, the first 1.5 hours made it pretty clear is your standard AAA open-world game with a cyberpunk sheen. The_E's in-progress review confirmed my suspicions.

I suppose it doesn't help that within the first few minutes of actual play, I turned left out of the garage instead of right... and since I had the gall to turn around using a small drive that had people sitting near it who yelped a little bit, I got brutally murdered by some bad guys who apparently have it out for exactly me within about 30 seconds.

Meh.

I went ahead and requested a refund. Maybe I'll give the game another chance in a few years and buy it again when it's on sale.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Colonol Dekker on December 14, 2020, 03:18:38 pm
So it downloaded today while I'm working in Hull, got back to the hotel to find it runs splendidly on ultra at 19(something) x (something) without any Raytracing.  With a DS4 plugged in its like a dream. 


Performance aside,  I'm yet to get to anything resembling open world.   But that's due to time constraints,  I've only got so much free time per evening after writing up real world work and calibrating equipment for the next days endeavours.

I'm sure after an hour or two a day for the rest of the week (not counting Friday) I'll be able to offer better insight into my opinion.

I went Corpo BTW and didn't go silly on the character creator. 😂👍
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: karajorma on December 14, 2020, 06:41:12 pm
Okay, that's cool. One question though: Did that open up any gameplay routes for you that weren't open before?

I'll ask you a counter-question. When did any upgrades in Witcher 3 do that?

But in answer to that question. Yes, it did. I can get up on rooftops and into positions I could never have gotten into since I became Spring-Heeled Jack. I haven't tried a stealth mission with them yet, but I expect it to be completely different since I am no longer limited to the old paths I had to follow.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Rhymes on December 14, 2020, 08:22:51 pm

[/quote]
I'll ask you a counter-question. When did any upgrades in Witcher 3 do that?

But in answer to that question. Yes, it did. I can get up on rooftops and into positions I could never have gotten into since I became Spring-Heeled Jack. I haven't tried a stealth mission with them yet, but I expect it to be completely different since I am no longer limited to the old paths I had to follow.

Never. That's not a strength of Witcher 3 either. Weak character leveling systems is kind of a pattern in CDPR games. And I have bad news for you: those upgrades don't open up any actual mission paths that you couldn't get to some other way either. I guarantee you that you could get to those rooftops (or at least the ones that actually have some new pathway accessible from them) without that upgrade, since there's basically always something that can be mantled to get up onto the roof.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: karajorma on December 14, 2020, 08:43:43 pm
Never. That's not a strength of Witcher 3 either. Weak character leveling systems is kind of a pattern in CDPR games.

Which is kind of my point. E argued This is really bad for a game as big as this. It speaks to development ressources being spent on systems for the sake of having systems, with no real game design or mission balancing going on. So was it really bad in the Witcher or was it not much of an issue there?


Quote
And I have bad news for you: those upgrades don't open up any actual mission paths that you couldn't get to some other way either. I guarantee you that you could get to those rooftops (or at least the ones that actually have some new pathway accessible from them) without that upgrade, since there's basically always something that can be mantled to get up onto the roof.

Yes, you could have spent points in strength or tech upgrades to open doors which would allow you in there. At this point I'm kind of lost as you what you're trying to argue. Are you trying to say that more of the game should require a replay to ensure you have a certain augment at a certain point in the game? That more of the game should be inaccessible unless you have certain upgrades?

Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Rhymes on December 14, 2020, 09:22:20 pm

 I would argue that the weak character systems and the stuff for its own sake was really bad in The Witcher as well.

The difference is that in a game like, say, DXHR, having a different build will open up and close off different parts of a level depending on the abilities you have available. In Cyberpunk, you're going to get to the same exact place and just pushing a different button. Forcing a door open with your bare hands because you're a high-strength character does not produce a different outcome than hacking it open with a netrunner build--it's literally just "do I have to hold the button or press it to get through this door?" Jumping up and going through the window will put you in the same place.

Like, take the police station in Detroit in Human Revolution as an example. If you're not good at social and you blow the conversation with Haas, you can't walk around the police station--you have to sneak in and the whole thing goes hostile if you get detected, which effectively closes off large parts of the level. If you're not skilled in hacking there's entire parts of the building that are locked down or otherwise guarded that you can't get into without setting off the alarm--especially the armory. And because of how DXHR is balanced, if you trigger that alarm, you probably die, and even if you don't there's (limited) narrative consequences for shooting up the police station. 

See the difference? There's essentially a bunch of completely different versions of the same level that change entirely depending on how you choose to solve the problem. Cyberpunk doesn't do that. There's multiple ways to get past any individual obstacle, but the level path is the same no matter how you choose to do it.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: The E on December 15, 2020, 01:59:28 am
Which is kind of my point. E argued This is really bad for a game as big as this. It speaks to development ressources being spent on systems for the sake of having systems, with no real game design or mission balancing going on. So was it really bad in the Witcher or was it not much of an issue there?

You'll note that I haven't mentioned the Witcher series at all so far. Reason being that, for one reason or another, I repeatedly tried to play Witcher 2 and 3 and ultimately abandoned them as those games didn't grip me enough to make me continue playing them. I played them enough to know that these are generally good games that are just not for me; I don't have an in-depth critique of them the same way that I do for Cyberpunk because I lack personal experience with them.

Also, this criticism of mine you quote there applies to pretty much every system in this game. The leveling system is super granular, and thus shares the drawbacks of granular systems like this in that investing a single point in any given attribute doesn't make a tangible difference to the way your character plays. There's a huge difference between a Level 1 character and a Level 20 one, but the difference between Level 20 and 21 is tiny. Similarly, the perk system, while more consequential than the attribute system, also has you making tiny steps forward.
In an RPG, leveling systems are part of the game's reward loop: Doing activities awards currency that you can invest in things that make your character better at the things you find fun; This provides goals for players that drive motivation to play. I think this loop doesn't work well, here.
The crafting system faces issues too: To get to a point where the things you craft outperform the things you find, you need to invest a lot of ressources into this particular area of the game, and doing so means you are foregoing upgrades that have a more tangible and immediate effect. This, at least, is something that I feel could have been fixed relatively easily by removing random loot from the game; this would allow crafted items to be immediately superior to world drops, and would make the acquisition of crafting blueprints a much more chaseable goal.

It's curious to me that many of the criticisms I have for CP parallel my criticisms of Mass Effect 1: ME1's levelling system was also far too granular to be impactful; its gear also system encouraged rapid swapping of loadouts whenever you found a better gun or piece of armor, and as a result everything felt very samey. Bioware was able to fix these things in ME2; I hope CDPR can fix these things here too.


Quote
Yes, you could have spent points in strength or tech upgrades to open doors which would allow you in there. At this point I'm kind of lost as you what you're trying to argue. Are you trying to say that more of the game should require a replay to ensure you have a certain augment at a certain point in the game? That more of the game should be inaccessible unless you have certain upgrades?

Yes! That would be a good change that would make the experience of playing, replaying and discussing this game much better, I feel. It's a hallmark of the immersive sim genre, and Cyberpunk would have benefitted immensely if CDPR had dipped their toes into that pool rather than staying in the CRPG one.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Luis Dias on December 15, 2020, 03:27:09 am
The point were someone who hasn't even played the game thinks they can comment on it, is the point where I decide there's little worth listening to in their comment.

That's perfectly reasonable, and henceforth I will do better, I will improve myself and will have zero thoughts in my head about anything that I haven't experienced in a 100% way. #BeBetter.

Quote
The memes I've made or spread have also been mocking the technical bugs cause they are ****ing funny! The game might be buggy as hell but I'm absolutely loving it. I'm not spreading positive stuff cause it would be massively full of spoilers. And this game should be experienced, not talked about. There are plenty of missions with as much if not more depth than stuff in Witcher 3

I'm happy that you like it, I really am, the annoyance that is playing out in my head is more due to the cognitive dissonance between the entire internet hype about this once-in-a-decade game and its actual reality, not that it is a terrible game or whatever. At least people are having fun and appreciating the game. Having said that, I will also remind the board that the last time I've seen all this fun and laughter at a game's bugs was in Mass Effect Andromeda. Wasn't that fun!
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: CP5670 on December 15, 2020, 06:25:14 pm
I want to play this but was going to replace my old 1080ti with a new video card first, which is basically impossible to find in the US right now. Looks like I'm not missing much with all the bugs. I prefer to play games 6-12 months after release anyway, once they have fixed all the issues. If it's even half as good as Deus Ex HR or MD, I will love it, but I'm not expecting to be blown away. To be honest, AAA games with massive budgets in today's era are never going to try a lot of new innovations. Even the original Deus Ex is not a game that any big company would make today.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: karajorma on December 18, 2020, 02:39:53 am
I've been way too busy playing Cyberpunk to respond before. But in answer to the complaints from others, yes, changing your spec absolutely opens up completely different gameplay options. One of my friends told me about his build and it sounds like the way he's playing the game has been completely different from mine.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: The E on December 18, 2020, 02:53:18 am
I've been way too busy playing Cyberpunk to respond before. But in answer to the complaints from others, yes, changing your spec absolutely opens up completely different gameplay options. One of my friends told me about his build and it sounds like the way he's playing the game has been completely different from mine.

Been digging deeper into sidegigs and side missions, and yeah, those are clearly designed around the idea of different access paths being tied to different character builds. It's there that the systems do start working better and the benefits of getting certain upgrades and skill/attribute levels are communicated more clearly; I will still maintain however that that's not consistently the case for the main quest and some of the major sidequests.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Colonol Dekker on December 18, 2020, 03:17:36 am
I've had a fair few random sudden exits to desktop.   It's quite disconcerting.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Aesaar on December 18, 2020, 02:01:20 pm
I'm so glad I completely avoided nearly all the news about this game starting in 2017.  It allows me to enjoy what a good game it is without the overhype baggage.  It's a cyberpunk Witcher 3, which is what I was expecting.  A lot of the same problems, a lot of the same strengths.  Considering I love Witcher 3, I'm extremely ok with this.

And I haven't had a single crash and only minor graphical bugs in 13 hours of playing.  Making this game for 2013 consoles was a mistake.

Also I wish this game was a Shadowrun game.  Shadowrun best cyberpunk setting.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: RangerKarl on December 21, 2020, 01:38:34 am
Good game or bad, I think we can all agree that this game could use less streamer tie ins. Goddamn, I like Alanah and all but it's just glaring to see a face you recognize in a video game.

Also I wanna see a space expansion, it's really sounding like the proto-Expanse up there and I want in on that action.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Nyctaeus on December 26, 2020, 07:02:43 pm
Played through 70% of the story, currently level-32 corpo with precision rifle, sniper rifle and mantis blades.

Short review: It's a solid game but it's unfortunately not cyber Witcher 3. It's a crude mix of GTA and Witcher 3 with unique vibe. It's not awesome. It's not even very good. It's just good game. I expected much, much more from CDPR.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: CP5670 on February 27, 2021, 11:49:54 am
I've played through about half the game now and like it a lot. I paid zero attention to the hype around it, but like this type of game in general and am a big fan of Deus Ex and Fallout. It's more of a linear, story-driven FPS set in an open world with lots of linear side quests, as opposed to an RPG where your choices and character build matter, but does that quite well. The story is great for what it is, not particularly deep like Deus Ex but has memorable characters and decent writing.

I started playing it as a stealth game but the stealth mechanics and AI are clunky, and quickhacking enemies becomes boring quickly (and the hacking minigame is lame). It plays better as a straight FPS with a sniper-oriented build. The world is amazingly detailed and straight out of Blade Runner, and is fun to just explore. The cars and driving are fun for a while but feel tacked on, and is not what the game is really about. I just fast travel to quests. You keep getting slightly better guns and armor all the time and there is rarely any reason to invest in one gun for long. There are still many little bugs and glitches with floating or teleporting NPCs, and I did get one or two crashes, but none of it is major.
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: Falcon on March 15, 2021, 11:21:51 am
Several playthroughs already; Nomad, Street Kid, and Corpo. All three were fun; Nomad is my preferred start though as you start with vehicle and a weapon and end up in a car chase later on. Street Kid though has a more natural start from a storyline perspective. Corpo just seems underwhelming.

I just love the gunplay and the cyberware, the combat feels so good. It's definitely becoming one of my favorite games this year. 
Title: Re: CyberPunk 2077
Post by: The E on March 15, 2021, 11:41:09 am
Nomad is the only storyline that's actually finished and both starts and ends in a resonant way.