Author Topic: Let's talk about the sound code... again.  (Read 27794 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
 23:01   QuantumDelta    • probably a good idea
 23:01   QuantumDelta    • how do you vary nebula lightning strikes normally btw?
 23:01   Axem            • what
 23:01   QuantumDelta    • in fred somehow?
 23:02   Axem            • RC?!
 23:02   Axem            • yeah QD
 23:02   Axem            • there's some storm settings in FRED
 23:02   Axem            • theyre rather coarse though i think
 23:04   Axem            • there's standard, active, medium and the ever favorite, emp
 23:05   QuantumDelta    • which one is the one used in the mission I've been videoing?
 23:05   Axem            • i dunno
 23:05   Axem            • which mission is it
 23:06   QuantumDelta    • uhmmm
 23:06   QuantumDelta    • with the warspite and lucidity and the two freighters....
 23:07   Axem            • Battle of the Wilderness?
 23:07   QuantumDelta    • might be?
 23:07   Axem            • +Storm: s_active
 23:09   QuantumDelta    • I wonder what the flash differences are..
 23:14   Axem            • http://pastebin.com/RtN7Nhx9
 23:14   Axem            • active is the heaviest
 23:14   Axem            • thats not the actual table
 23:14   Axem            • i just cut out the timing parts
 23:46   QuantumDelta    • I was gonna suggest some clever idea for how to change those timings so they'd work but uhh
 23:46   QuantumDelta    • 350-550, 500-900, 900-1850 sounds fine to me :<

obviously there are gameplay implications with changing the emp nebula flash though.. but sound wise those values sound right
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

 

Offline jr2

  • The Mail Man
  • 212
  • It's prounounced jayartoo 0x6A7232
    • Steam
Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
change the EMP and sound so they are controlled in separate tables, e.g., you can have an 'active' storm, but the EMP effects are low.  This would also be helpful for if they develop "hardened" fighters in a mission that are more insulated against EMP.

Good idea, yes/no?

 

Offline chief1983

  • Still lacks a custom title
  • Moderator
  • 212
  • ⬇️⬆️⬅️⬅️🅰➡️⬇️
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Fate of the Galaxy
Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
How close are we to locking in reasonable numbers here?  We'd like to start the RC phase and we were thinking if this is still needing some input we could commit the configurable stuff to trunk, and lock it in for a final 3.6.14 release.
Fate of the Galaxy - Now Hiring!  Apply within | Diaspora | SCP Home | Collada Importer for PCS2
Karajorma's 'How to report bugs' | Mantis
#freespace | #scp-swc | #diaspora | #SCP | #hard-light on EsperNet

"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 
Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
My offered numbers are based on a few tests, of which the comparison is visible (in terms of percentages of sound) in my last video with the input from cyborg making the note to factor in that the other nebulae have different levels.
It just needs a bit of legwork from some other people to see if it's not just 'to my tastes' or so.
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

 

Offline Iss Mneur

  • 210
  • TODO:
Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
How close are we to locking in reasonable numbers here?  We'd like to start the RC phase and we were thinking if this is still needing some input we could commit the configurable stuff to trunk, and lock it in for a final 3.6.14 release.

Well, only 2 people have actually offered any data to me, which results in 3 data points, which IMHO is not enough.

Also Taylor is working on some more proper fixes that may actually remove the need for any of my tweaks.
"I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by." -Douglas Adams
wxLauncher 0.9.4 public beta (now with no config file editing for FRED) | wxLauncher 2.0 Request for Comments

 

Offline pecenipicek

  • Roast Chicken
  • 211
  • Powered by copious amounts of coffee and nicotine
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • PeceniPicek's own deviantart page
Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
i think this is one of the things that really REALLY shouldnt be hard-coded to the engine, as what might sound good with one set of effects, might sound crap with another set of effects.

Come one coders, you're not supposed to only keep everything retail-like and hard-coded, add another table for things like this and give us modders ways to work out things on our own as well.
Skype: vrganjko
Ho, ho, ho, to the bottle I go
to heal my heart and drown my woe!
Rain may fall and wind may blow,
and many miles be still to go,
but under a tall tree I will lie!

The Apocalypse Project needs YOU! - recruiting info thread.

 

Offline Iss Mneur

  • 210
  • TODO:
Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
i think this is one of the things that really REALLY shouldnt be hard-coded to the engine, as what might sound good with one set of effects, might sound crap with another set of effects.

Come one coders, you're not supposed to only keep everything retail-like and hard-coded, add another table for things like this and give us modders ways to work out things on our own as well.

With respect to the speakers and audio cards, find the settings (with retail assets) that you like the best with whatever you play the game with.  I am going to make whatever the consensus is the defaults for the engine.  The cmdline flags are not staying.

"I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by." -Douglas Adams
wxLauncher 0.9.4 public beta (now with no config file editing for FRED) | wxLauncher 2.0 Request for Comments

 

Offline Axem

  • 211
Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
Okay, so to help get the RC cycle going, I decided to help.

http://lazymodders.fsmods.net/files/NewSoundCodeTestMission.rar

Here's some test missions for people to play to experiment around with the settings.

ClippingTest.fs2 tries very hard to clip audio. 12 Fighters all jump in right next to the player at the same time, then 6 mjolnirs fire at the same time.

My experience with that: -alwaysenforce + -listenergain around 0.5 - 0.65 sounded the best. (I preferred 0.5 personally)

NebTest.fs2 will cycle through the different storm types in FreeSpace to test -percent_flashtobang. Every 25s, a new storm type. I liked 30 in my opinion, though seeing close lightning without any sound was kind of odd. s_active is still too noisy for me though :p

 

Offline mjn.mixael

  • Cutscene Master
  • 212
  • Chopped liver
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
Using on-board RealTek on this rig (:(), 5.1 setup, soft_oal.dll as "Speakers (RealTek High Definition Audio) via DirectSound"

I used ' -alwaysenforce -listenergain 0.5 -percent_flashtobang 50'

Which seemed pretty good in all cases. The beams still clipped ever so slightly, but much better than it was.
Cutscene Upgrade Project - Mainhall Remakes - Between the Ashes
Youtube Channel - P3D Model Box
Between the Ashes is looking for committed testers, PM me for details.
Freespace Upgrade Project See what's happening.

 

Offline pecenipicek

  • Roast Chicken
  • 211
  • Powered by copious amounts of coffee and nicotine
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • PeceniPicek's own deviantart page
Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
With respect to the speakers and audio cards, find the settings (with retail assets) that you like the best with whatever you play the game with.  I am going to make whatever the consensus is the defaults for the engine.  The cmdline flags are not staying.
"The cmdline flags are not staying" part is what got my red flag waving around, as it implies that you will hardcode it and be done with it
Skype: vrganjko
Ho, ho, ho, to the bottle I go
to heal my heart and drown my woe!
Rain may fall and wind may blow,
and many miles be still to go,
but under a tall tree I will lie!

The Apocalypse Project needs YOU! - recruiting info thread.

 

Offline Zacam

  • Magnificent Bastard
  • Administrator
  • 211
  • I go Sledge-O-Matic on Spammers
    • Minecraft
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • ModDB Feature
Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.

Which is the best way to ensure a Retail like level of consistency in regards to particular environments.

If you want more expansion outside of that for a mod end, then you're looking at a modular sounds.tbl and using the sound_env.tbl for your mod, not dealing with the elements that these options are going to be setting up.
Report MediaVP issues, now on the MediaVP Mantis! Read all about it Here!
Talk with the community on Discord
"If you can keep a level head in all this confusion, you just don't understand the situation"

¤[D+¬>

[08/01 16:53:11] <sigtau> EveningTea: I have decided that I am a 32-bit registerkin.  Pronouns are eax, ebx, ecx, edx.
[08/01 16:53:31] <EveningTea> dhauidahh
[08/01 16:53:32] <EveningTea> sak
[08/01 16:53:40] * EveningTea froths at the mouth
[08/01 16:53:40] <sigtau> i broke him, boys

  

Offline Davros

  • 29
Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
Does the sound problem happen for all cards ?
Ive never heard it could that be because my soundcard is capable of 128 simultaneous sounds ?
also could it be an openal problem would sending the openal devs a bug report be worthwhile ?

 

Offline pecenipicek

  • Roast Chicken
  • 211
  • Powered by copious amounts of coffee and nicotine
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • PeceniPicek's own deviantart page
Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
Does the sound problem happen for all cards ?
in various amounts, yes.
Quote
Ive never heard it could that be because my soundcard is capable of 128 simultaneous sounds ?
You just might be one of the lucky ones who have cards which have proper hardware mixers, but even with my Audigy 2ZS i have these problems sometimes.
Quote
also could it be an openal problem would sending the openal devs a bug report be worthwhile ?
Doubtful.
Skype: vrganjko
Ho, ho, ho, to the bottle I go
to heal my heart and drown my woe!
Rain may fall and wind may blow,
and many miles be still to go,
but under a tall tree I will lie!

The Apocalypse Project needs YOU! - recruiting info thread.

 

Offline Zacam

  • Magnificent Bastard
  • Administrator
  • 211
  • I go Sledge-O-Matic on Spammers
    • Minecraft
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • ModDB Feature
Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.

So, as promised, I ran a lot of testing. I modified the .patch to compile to Antipodes, since that is what I do most of my testing with, but with that in mind, I will be repeating all of my tests again with Trunk.

I also need to test under "Generic Software" as well, which I will do and either update this post, or make an additional post (which ever is preferred)

  • FSO Selection: Speakers (Creative SB X-Fi) via DirectSound
  • Sound Device: X-Fi Fatality XtremeGamer
  • Driver: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi series driver 2.18.0015
  • OpenAL version:  2.0.7.0 Installer (OpenAL 1.1; OpenAL32.dll version 6.14.357.24; wrap_oal.dll version 2.2.0.5)
  • OpenAL Soft (version and type): 1.13, soft_oal.dll
  • Speaker Setup: 4.1 (Windows: Quadraphonic)
  • Settings found Acceptable: -alwaysenforce -listenergain 0.5 -percent_flashtobang 55

As for the hardcoded stuff: What we are looking at and for HERE are being able to accurate represent and reproduce the "Retail" environment for effects playback that is consistent across the board.

OTHER things, like a flexible modular sounds.tbl and active use of the sound_env.tbl (which practically NOBODY is currently familiar with and I would LOVE for taylor, if he could one more time, post that and explain it for people so we can get it into the wiki) are what will allow for the non-hardcoded leverage of taking advantage of this new sound code. To be able to allow mod's to have the ability to control environment, sample playback amounts and/or gain and everything else is NOT what the purpose of THIS current testing is about. Those ARE issues and they DO need to be addressed, but not within the scope of THIS testing. Yes, it WILL be nice also being able to control these values outside of hard coded values. But we NEED the hard coded values FIRST to establish what the defacto baseline is so that pioneering sound engineers (no pun intended) know that what is heard on one system has a better chancre of still sounding just like that on another system.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 05:24:12 am by Zacam »
Report MediaVP issues, now on the MediaVP Mantis! Read all about it Here!
Talk with the community on Discord
"If you can keep a level head in all this confusion, you just don't understand the situation"

¤[D+¬>

[08/01 16:53:11] <sigtau> EveningTea: I have decided that I am a 32-bit registerkin.  Pronouns are eax, ebx, ecx, edx.
[08/01 16:53:31] <EveningTea> dhauidahh
[08/01 16:53:32] <EveningTea> sak
[08/01 16:53:40] * EveningTea froths at the mouth
[08/01 16:53:40] <sigtau> i broke him, boys

 

Offline Spoon

  • 212
  • ヾ(´︶`♡)ノ
Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
 :bump:
Would be a shame to let this issue slip into oblivion again when there was finally some progress getting made
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline chief1983

  • Still lacks a custom title
  • Moderator
  • 212
  • ⬇️⬆️⬅️⬅️🅰➡️⬇️
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Fate of the Galaxy
Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
Don't worry, it won't.  I've been too busy this week to follow up due to a global summit at work, but as soon as that's over I'm going to be diving straight into getting something in to rectify the situation enough for the RC.
Fate of the Galaxy - Now Hiring!  Apply within | Diaspora | SCP Home | Collada Importer for PCS2
Karajorma's 'How to report bugs' | Mantis
#freespace | #scp-swc | #diaspora | #SCP | #hard-light on EsperNet

"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline Spoon

  • 212
  • ヾ(´︶`♡)ノ
Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
Don't worry, it won't.  I've been too busy this week to follow up due to a global summit at work, but as soon as that's over I'm going to be diving straight into getting something in to rectify the situation enough for the RC.
Excellent  :yes:
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline torc

  • 210
  • Diaspora SFX engineer
Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
if is possible, i wanna notice that the atom.wav sound is tied only at  Flags: "Capital"  in ships.tbl.

If the Flag is "supercap" or "freighter" the atom.wav not work.

Hope you can fix this bug :)
indossare una divisa può avere un prezzo alto...ma a volte...è troppo alto!!! Bill Adama

 

Offline chief1983

  • Still lacks a custom title
  • Moderator
  • 212
  • ⬇️⬆️⬅️⬅️🅰➡️⬇️
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Fate of the Galaxy
Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
Is it Mantis'd?  Be a good idea to point out the number if so, and it probably won't get fixed if not.
Fate of the Galaxy - Now Hiring!  Apply within | Diaspora | SCP Home | Collada Importer for PCS2
Karajorma's 'How to report bugs' | Mantis
#freespace | #scp-swc | #diaspora | #SCP | #hard-light on EsperNet

"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline torc

  • 210
  • Diaspora SFX engineer
Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
ehm...i don't know use mantis :(

Could you please do this for me?
Thanks in advance :)
indossare una divisa può avere un prezzo alto...ma a volte...è troppo alto!!! Bill Adama