Author Topic: 17th May CVS Build  (Read 33951 times)

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Offline taylor

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The starfield artifacts is not a new problem, but it's not exactly a bug either.  I believe that we have already attributed it to a video card issue (overclocking, etc.) or, more than likely, an issue with compiler optimizations.  I'm not sure if these binaries are optimized or not but if they are then that could be the problem.  I don't release optimized binaries for this same reason (we had issues with certain compiler optimizations in the icculus.org version long ago too).

If these builds aren't optimized then I'm not quite sure what the problem is, unless you are overclocking your video card.  The starfield graphics aren't rendered with any of the env effects so neither of the related options should have any effect.  It's likely coincidence.  The envmap support could cause just enough extra stress on your system that the problem would appear, but it wouldn't be the real cause of it.

You can try my last build (http://icculus.org/~taylor/fso/nightly/20060513-win32.rar) and see if the same thing happens.  If not then we'll know for sure that it's not the env code and is something specific to the 17th build.  If it does happen then it's still more likely that it's an issue with your video card or video drivers than anything to do with the envmapping code.

 

Offline karajorma

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I didn't alter the default VC6 settings except to turn on Speech synth and voice recognition (although I don't know why I bothered with the second one).
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Offline ME$$ENGER

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Hearing taylor's suggestion I went out my own way testing different builds. The builds I tried are 20060509 (built by karajorma), 20060513 (built by taylor) and 20060517 (built by karajorma). Well, what can I say? The starfield corruption is gone all of a sudden (even when I was testing 20060517, the build I was having problems with) and I have been unable to reproduce the problem ever since then. :doubt:

EDIT:
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I take the above back. I found out I can reproduce the corruption by completing an entire mission and proceeding to the next in both 20060513 and 20060517. Turning off overclocking doesn't help. Oh well. :(
--------------

Anyway, I do still have problems with music, and one thing I noticed is that 20060509 seems to handle sounds differently. The reason I say this is that:

1. It does not have the briefing music problem. Both 20060513 and 20060517 can't loop briefing music.

2. This will be a long explaination, so please bear with me. The sound card I have is the crappy built-in realtek ALC650 from my nForce 2 chipset. For some reasons the nVidia driver for it has a bug that makes certain sound effects coming out really quiet (almost to the point of muting them) sometimes, particularly when a hardware sound provider is used . Using a software sound provider (ie: Miles 2D) will fix this problem. Now more to the point:  the sound effects related to menu bottons and voices in 20060509 are unmistakenly loud compared to the others, while everything else sounds the same. In fact, only 20060509 have the same volume output as the retail executable for all sound effects. This leads me to believe that the two other builds (20060513 and 20060517) must have undergone significant change for sound processing to have this result.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2006, 11:23:48 pm by ME$$ENGER »

 

Offline karajorma

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The 20060509 build was built without OpenAL where as the other two do use it so you're definitely correct about the change.
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Offline taylor

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The sound card I have is the crappy built-in realtek ALC650 from my nForce 2 chipset. For some reasons the nVidia driver for it has a bug that makes certain sound effects coming out really quiet (almost to the point of muting them) sometimes, particularly when a hardware sound provider is used .
Many nForce driver versions have known issues with OpenAL.  What version are you using now?

If you have also installed the Creative version of OpenAL then there may be a conflict with the drivers.  Check in C:\Windows\System32 for the files "OpenAL32.dll" and "warp_oal.dll", plus either "ct_oal.dll" or "nvopenal.dll" (you should be using one or the other but not both).  If you have installed the Creative drivers then ct_oal.dll might exist.  If it does then just make sure to install the newest nForce drivers and delete that dll.  Then see if the sound still has issues.

 

Offline Mars

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The newest realtek A'97 drivers fix the crackle.

see: this thread

 

Offline ME$$ENGER

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Many nForce driver versions have known issues with OpenAL.  What version are you using now?

If you have also installed the Creative version of OpenAL then there may be a conflict with the drivers.  Check in C:\Windows\System32 for the files "OpenAL32.dll" and "warp_oal.dll", plus either "ct_oal.dll" or "nvopenal.dll" (you should be using one or the other but not both).  If you have installed the Creative drivers then ct_oal.dll might exist.  If it does then just make sure to install the newest nForce drivers and delete that dll.  Then see if the sound still has issues.

I did some file searching in my system folder and couldn't find the wrapper (wrap_oal.dll). Also OpenAL32.dll seems to have been replaced by the one from the nvidia driver. In my frustration I decided to reinstall OpenAL 1.1. Lo and behold, all my sound problems including the briefing music one are gone!  :yes: Thanks for the help, now time to kick some shivan butts! :D

 

Offline neoterran

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okay, I must inform you :

If you have an Nforce 2 soundstorm certified board and only if you have this (not all boards do) , then you have a DSP on board with a digital out. That's the one that provides hardware acceleration and is compatible with OpenAL 1.1, if you install it. It is a very high quality audio solution. However, because motherboard makers needed to cut costs, and the DSP did not have an analog codec by nvidia to change it's signal from digital to analog, the mobo makers packaged most boards with the now-discontinued, very cheap and poor quality Realtek ALC650 chip to provide the analog conversion on the motherboard. This is bad for 2 reasons : the ALC650 (an AC'97 codec) sucks, has no hardware acceleration (it's software based, which means it uses CPU time which is bad) and secondly, motherboards are very noisy, which detracts from the sound. If you install the ALC650 drivers, you may improve your sound, but you will completely lose the DSP ability of the nforce DSP (called the APU or MCP-T) which you should be aware of. This is only if you use the analog outs on the board. IF you use a digital out, you completely bypass the ALC650, use OpenAL 1.1 drivers and HW acceleration via the APU which is lower CPU than the AC'97, and a much cleaner and nicer sound.

In a nutshell, crappy AC97 codecs give the onboard sound a bad name. Try to use the digital out if you can. I do, and Freespace SCP sounds perfect. Make sure you have the MCP-T first tho. If you just have a MCP, you don't have soundstorm, and you should ignore this advice. (you'll have to, because you won't have a digital out)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2006, 03:20:59 pm by neoterran »
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Offline neoterran

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voice recognition is still broken in the latest build. Why even bother compiling support for it if it doesn't work ? Or rather, does someone know enough to fix it ? Error is : Failed to load resource. Failed to Init.
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Offline Goober5000

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We may end up ripping out voice recognition entirely.  One of our members ducked in just long enough to add it, then disappeared.  If coders aren't around to support their features, they tend to get broken.

 

Offline Mars

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Is it just me or do screen-shots not turn out in this build?

 

Offline ME$$ENGER

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Is it just me or do screen-shots not turn out in this build?

Hmm, probably just you since I took a screenshot with this build and posted it on the first page already. :)

 

Offline Mars

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figured  :doubt:

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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Is it just me or do screen-shots not turn out in this build?
My screenshots are coming out all green as well.
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Offline taylor

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Is it just me or do screen-shots not turn out in this build?
They work fine for me (and others) but there is something fubar in there.  I added the PBO code (for screenshots and what not) but disabled it for the time being.  Apparently something in that update was a bit freaky with regards to the normal screenshot code, but I have updated stuff about ready to commit anyway.  I'm going to try and get my other updates and bug fixes in this weekend, if time allows, but just keep an eye on the next couple of builds and let me know whether it ends up fixed or not.

 

Offline Mars

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My screenshots come out in very dark, very solid colors.

 

Offline neoterran

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my screenshots were normal.
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Offline Goober5000

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I can't fathom why on Earth they would create a build that actually causes more problems than it solves. It is supposed to fix bugs, not create new ones.  :rolleyes:

What, pray tell, is the purpose of this comment? :wtf:

 

Offline Mars

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These are in fact, unoffical, expirimental builds.

 

Offline Goober5000

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Because it felt good to complain about it

If you're going to complain, you will not be welcome here.  The SCP is a forum for discussing changes and constructive criticism, not a ranting room.

Quote
and I'm really wondering why release a build that makes more bugs.

You're assuming malice or apathy on the part of the SCP.  That really gets on my nerves.

Certain bugs, like the one you describe, only show up for a small number of people.  Since FSO is designed to work on a wide variety of systems, bugs like this sometimes slip through.

Furthermore, the purpose of regular CVS builds is to allow forum members to beta test and evaluate features and bugs.  We make no guarantee as to the stability or quality of these builds; they're offered on a "take it or leave it" basis.  The only builds we warrant to be reasonably stable and secure are the "official" builds stickied in the main SCP forum.

Finally, the programmers on the SCP are under no obligation to you or anyone else.  We work on this in our own free time, out of the goodness of our hearts.  So when someone like you comes along mouthing off or carrying a soapbox, it really sets us off.

You can consider yourself voiceless in the SCP forum for a week.  If this disrespectful behavior keeps up, you will be monkeyed.