[Mobius]

Open-minded guy at work...

[Jeff Vader]

Suddenly the word "dreadnought" popped into my mind. If we interpret some dictionary information, a juggernaut is "unstoppable", like the Sathanas seemed to be at first, with its awesome forward beam cannons. But the Colossus could be a dreadnought, as in "One that is the largest or the most powerful of its kind". Sort of. no canon base whatsoever, but sounds distantly appropriate.

[Flipside]

Open-minded guy at work...

Well, you're just as entitled to your opinion as me, and we both have good reasons for thinking as we do

Suddenly the word "dreadnought" popped into my mind. If we interpret some dictionary information, a juggernaut is "unstoppable", like the Sathanas seemed to be at first, with its awesome forward beam cannons. But the Colossus could be a dreadnought, as in "One that is the largest or the most powerful of its kind". Sort of. no canon base whatsoever, but sounds distantly appropriate.

Actually, to my mind, the Moloch should have been a Dreadnought, since I've always visualized them as being ships designed more for taking punishment than giving it.

Edit: I suppose that comes from a rough interpretation of the word itself - Dreadnaught = Fears Nothing.
Edit 2 : On second thoughts, maybe the Moloch wasn't such a good suggestion, since they tend to fear pretty much anything that can target subsystems...

[Commander Zane]

Even then, for a Moloch to be a pure Dreadnought it would need more than what...three SReds?

[Rick James]

Even then, for a Moloch to be a pure Dreadnought it would need more than what...three SReds?

That always confused me. Terran and Vasudan vessels fill the gap between small beams and large ones with "slash" type beams. Why didn't the Shivan's do something similar?--if not a slash beam, then a medium-strength direct-fire beam.

[Commander Zane]

Well in terms of SRed, LRed, and BFRed, the LRed would be that "medium" strength beam. Some mods add an HRed to the Shivan arsenal, probably as a way to give the LRed more of a use as a standard beam cannon.

[eliex]

I think the mods added HRed as a super-destroyer class beam, as there's a MRed for corvettes.

[Commander Zane]

Right, I remember Ghost Revenants adds an MRed.

[Grizzly]

Even then, for a Moloch to be a pure Dreadnought it would need more than what...three SReds?

That always confused me. Terran and Vasudan vessels fill the gap between small beams and large ones with "slash" type beams. Why didn't the Shivan's do something similar?--if not a slash beam, then a medium-strength direct-fire beam.

Because the Shivans are not the GTVA. They do not show any similarities either (oh well, they fly spaceships, but that's really it).

[Dilmah G]

Even then, for a Moloch to be a pure Dreadnought it would need more than what...three SReds?

That always confused me. Terran and Vasudan vessels fill the gap between small beams and large ones with "slash" type beams. Why didn't the Shivan's do something similar?--if not a slash beam, then a medium-strength direct-fire beam.

Because the Shivans are not the GTVA. They do not show any similarities either (oh well, they fly spaceships, but that's really it).

GTVA Ships are basically more defence/broadside attack minded, pretty much can take attacks on both sides and will make an attack broadside first rather than using their forward beam cannons (this is especially true with ships such as the Orion, whose port and starboard BGreens will rip you to shreds), while Shivans are CLEARLY much more offensive minded (have you ever looked at the Sathanas before?). Shivan Destroyers generally are heavier on their forward beam cannon array, and use it to great effect to decimate ships of smaller size, regardless of armour/anti-fighter compliment. Putting a Sathanas next to a Hecate will achieve next to nothing, as it only has a single LRed (I think) mounted aft. IMO, this translates to me as the Sathanas coming across as Purely Offensive, its purpose is ONLY to decimate other ships, while Terran Ships may carry Marines/other non pilots. If the Shivans made a people carrier, they would go easy on the forward BFReds and learn something from the Orion and discover the rectangle.

[Commander Zane]

If the Shivans made a people carrier, they would go easy on the forward BFReds and learn something from the Orion and discover the rectangle.

Nah, the next Transport / Freighter they make will have a BFRed somewhere.

Come to think of it, if the Dis had better armor and the token beam cannon spikes, would anyone else see it as a Sathanas-style mini-Cruiser?

[Jeff Vader]

Putting a Sathanas next to a Hecate will achieve next to nothing, as it only has a single LRed (I think) mounted aft. IMO, this translates to me as the Sathanas coming across as Purely Offensive, its purpose is ONLY to decimate other ships

Well, that and the whole "Let's blow up that ****ing star" feature.

[Dilmah G]

Putting a Sathanas next to a Hecate will achieve next to nothing, as it only has a single LRed (I think) mounted aft. IMO, this translates to me as the Sathanas coming across as Purely Offensive, its purpose is ONLY to decimate other ships

Well, that and the whole "Let's blow up that ****ing star" feature.

Oh yeahh, forget about that

[Androgeos Exeunt]

EDIT: Not voting until I see Snuffleupagus and/or "The Colossus doesn't need a designation".

Then don't. Read the first post in this thread.

[AlphaOne]

The Colossus can be clearely classified as a jugg class warship. However we MUST pay attention to its original pourpose and who actualy built the ship.

It is a GTVA jugg class warship and not a shivan jugg class warship .

While it does have some rather good offensive capabilaties it is more of a defensive/attack stile ship much like the Orion. (Im not comparing it to the Hattie since the Hattie is more offensive orientated IMO and the Hecate is in a class of its own. decent in all areas but not really really good at anything ).

If you want you can think of the Collie as a cross bread between a Hattie and an Orion supersized .

If the GTVA was hell bent on making a pure offensive class of jugg's then im pretty sure you would have seen several MJolnir's mounted in such a way as to provide maximum offensive capabilaties coupled with default LRBG or BFG .

However you can afford to build such ships when you outnumber the enemy by at least 2/1 and you are convinced that one shot or a couple of them max would ensure that you win the battle hands down.

So before anyone think's about placing the Collie in a specific class they should consider these simple fact's first .

The Collie was designed to hold the fort and win against several ship's which were known to be the most powerfull ones ever encountered. While it would have a very difficult time at this on its own it would of been supported by the C&C of the Hecate class as well as the more offensive Hattie Sobek and Deimos.

All of these ship's when formed into a single defensive or even offensive line against even a Sath ,if properly used would be sure to win or at least severely dammage the enemy so that it would no longer pose such a dire threat.

I've come to this conclusion after carefully watching the way different ship classes are presented in game and in the tech room as well as the ani's . They were all meant to work toghether in order to ensure the safes and fastest way to neutralize Lucifer class SD and of course any other ship the shivans might have nearby (meaning Demon class and such) .

Also while i do not want this to turn into another Iceni debate i can not help but feel that somehow the Iceni at least at some point should or rather was supposed to be an integral part of the GTVA's arsenal.(It's just a feeling i cant shake loose )

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Also while i do not want this to turn into another Iceni debate i can not help but feel that somehow the Iceni at least at some point should or rather was supposed to be an integral part of the GTVA's arsenal.(It's just a feeling i cant shake loose )

It's easy to see why. The Colossus and Iceni look like siblings.

[Akalabeth Angel]

I agree with Flipside, but some pedantic people always claim that it wasn't ever said that it was a juggernaut, in the same way the Ulysses is never specifically called 'a ship', so really it should be a 'unspecified space-faring combat vehicle'.

      Incidentally the Ulysses is also supposed to be a joint project fighter yet the Vasudans never use it.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

The Ulysses now has a ship type in the ship selection screen, so it doesn't count.

      Incidentally the Ulysses is also supposed to be a joint project fighter yet the Vasudans never use it.

No wonder I found "PVF Ulysses" in FSPort to be a bit out of place.

[nostro_pl]

I think that Colossus is a juggernaut - class warship. From Shivan's perspective this ship can only be stopped by SJ Sathanas, so it's almost "unstoppable". And GTVA calls SJ Sathanas a "juggernaut", because only Colossus can beat him.

BTW: Hello everyone, I'm new here 

[Commander Zane]

One on one, the Colossus can't do squat to the Sathanas unless it's facing away from the Colossus in any 90 degree angle.

Considering its size, firepower, and ability to house ships, would Battlecarrier be a good term for it?
In fact, any Destroyer in FreeSpace is a Battlecarrier when you look at their ability to destroy other warships with little support while having carrier capability.