[NGTM-1R]

Bear in mind the intensity of those few days. A single battlegroup, divided into halves, undergoing several major fleet actions while stranded in hostile territory, with no hope of reinforcement against overwhelming numbers, a superdestroyer, and a juggernaut.

Which probably isn't very different from duty against the first/second wave of a Shivan incursion at all, particularly since all available logistics capacity is probably tied up in moving civilians. Several of the ships needed major repairs from the Anemois, but there's really no suggestion that their stocks of munitions and fuel were at any point running low. If anything they were openly profligate in expending fuel (traveling several systems over to chase down an errant cruiser and several back to link up, all at high speed) in a way that doesn't square with needing to conserve a limited resource for possible combat maneuvering.

[redsniper]

What is so unbelieveable about the GTVA capships getting shot to under 25% and getting fully repaired draining the spare parts of the logistic vessels fast?

The point was over here, you missed it; the GTVA knows it can't necessarily depend on being able to get supplies of beans, bullets, and black oil to people who need them during another Shivan attack, so my objection is based on the idea that you run out of fuel, food, and ammo capacity in under a week and the ship is no longer able to fight at full capacity. (Which would be remarkably stupid.)

Major damage is a different matter.

And here I was thinking that alls ships, no matter the size carry fusion engines with them...odd^^

Pretty sure he didn't mean oil literally.

[-Norbert-]

What is so unbelieveable about the GTVA capships getting shot to under 25% and getting fully repaired draining the spare parts of the logistic vessels fast?

The point was over here, you missed it; the GTVA knows it can't necessarily depend on being able to get supplies of beans, bullets, and black oil to people who need them during another Shivan attack, so my objection is based on the idea that you run out of fuel, food, and ammo capacity in under a week and the ship is no longer able to fight at full capacity. (Which would be remarkably stupid.)

Major damage is a different matter.

No, I didn't miss the point. If you read my last post fully, you'd have seen that I even adressed that very point you just made, but let me reiterate and expand:

The 14th battlegroup was expecting to have the Sol operation wraped up in less than a day with minimal, if any, combat.
Instead they got at least a full week of high intensity combat (more activity mean more burned nourishment and thus the need to eat and drink more and obviously also more used up fuel, amunition and spare parts). Further complications in the matter come in the form of damage to the logistic vessels and possilby gifts for upgrading the Sanctuary.
Stocking up a logistic ship to absolutely full capacity is surely a lot more expansive than stocking it up with what is expected to be needed plus a safety buffer.
While there is no direct indication for it (though no indication for the opposite either), it's possible those two Anemois weren't even half stocked, but because the GTVA intended to split the group between Mars and Earth, they had to send two of them anyway, so that each group could have one.

[NGTM-1R]

No, I didn't miss the point. If you read my last post fully, you'd have seen that I even adressed that very point you just made, but let me reiterate and expand:

Actually, you're still missing the point, which is that what you're describing is ridiculous. You're also betraying some fundamental misconceptions about the importance of the operation and the way militaries think. Having too much in the way of supplies is like having too much money; it's not possible. This is the most important mission the GTVA has launched since the supernova. Every ship will have a full loadout if it is remotely possible for them to. For Admiral Bei to allow the mission to proceed otherwise would suggest an almost criminal negligence; no matter how easy it's planned to be he'll still be an isolated command facing fairly long odds.

You're asserting that the Anemois are necessary to provide basic supplies, i.e. food, fuel, ammunition, for a timeframe shorter than a week. This is patent nonsense. No such warship would be effective in combat. We haven't had major combatant ships with such short legs since the Anglo-Dutch wars in the 17th century in the real world, and even minor blue-water ones have had longer endurance for more than fifty years. You're proposing a giant step back that nobody's ever going to accept.

At best you might be able to construct an argument for ammunition, but the BP team has made repeated comment that the GTVA does not expect to be able to maintain an open supply line in time of war and their ships are designed for greater endurance. As the final nail in the coffin, at no point in AoA is there a pause in the action that would have allowed the 14th to conduct serious replenishment operations; they're always either under threat, in motion, engaged in actual combat, or the logistic's ships efforts are fully consumed in repairing a destroyer.

[qwadtep]

Bear in mind the intensity of those few days. A single battlegroup, divided into halves, undergoing several major fleet actions while stranded in hostile territory, with no hope of reinforcement against overwhelming numbers, a superdestroyer, and a juggernaut.

Which probably isn't very different from duty against the first/second wave of a Shivan incursion at all, particularly since all available logistics capacity is probably tied up in moving civilians.

If it were an incursion the GTVA would have its first reinforcements in-system within the day. AoA wasn't an incursion, it was a single battlegroup dropped right in the middle of the hornet's nest and forced to fend for itself.

[-Norbert-]

No, I didn't miss the point. If you read my last post fully, you'd have seen that I even adressed that very point you just made, but let me reiterate and expand:

You're asserting that the Anemois are necessary to provide basic supplies, i.e. food, fuel, ammunition, for a timeframe shorter than a week. This is patent nonsense. No such warship would be effective in combat. We haven't had major combatant ships with such short legs since the Anglo-Dutch wars in the 17th century in the real world, and even minor blue-water ones have had longer endurance for more than fifty years. You're proposing a giant step back that nobody's ever going to accept.

Okay now you really start to get under my skin.
Apart from your total lack of politeness, you yourself state that the Anemois are responsible for carrying everything, including food in your post and when I say the same it's suddenly "ridiculous"?

Please think not just about what you say, but how you say it.

As for an answer to the content of your post, I think qwadtep summed it up very nicely.
Sending them not fully stocked might be criminal negligence in most cases, but considering the GTVAs projected worse case scenarios of the invasion and the fact that the GTVA is economically unstable, to say the least, gives stroytellers a lot of wriggling room for not stocking the fleet to maximum capacity.
Besides I'd say sending the fleet to conquer Sol and only telling the highest ranking officers about it sounds like far worse negligence to me than not stocking them up with far more items than they are going to need (and it backfired big time too).
Untill AoA, Admiral Bei was a loyal follower of the GTVA, if they said jump, he asked "how high" and did it. If the GTVA said "invade them without being fully stocked" he might have pointed out he thinks it a bad idea, but ultimately he would have (and did) follow the order anyway, unless it's an obvious road to disaster, which wasn't the case for the invasion, since they couldn't possibly know about being dumped in a parallel universe.

[headdie]

Having said that NGTM-1R has a valid point just to be able to patrol effectively a warship both now and in FS needs to be able to operate independently on food, fuel and the like for several days at a minimum.  As this is a combat operation It would be negligent of the fleet to deploy them short on supplies and munitions, as shown in recent conflicts send someone into a potential conflict zones short on supplies and they die.  In addition to this I While the GTVA is in economic depression I doubt the GTVA is so short it cant afford to supply a battlegroup and it's logistic vessels properly when deploying them into a situation they know has a good potential to degenerate into an armed conflict.

[-Norbert-]

I'm not saying that his point isn't valid, but neither is it an unconditional truth no matter the situation and warrents ridiculing of everyone who disagrees with the statement.

The whole war was implemented rather quickly, so some oversights or compromises, for making sure to keep the element of surprise, might have been taken.
The longer they waited with invading, the more suspect the UEF might have become. Maybe they simply didn't have enough time to fully stock the ships without delaying too much for High Commands liking.

[Scotty]

They had 18 years to stock those ships while the gate went up.  They were either full or the GTVA was criminally negligent.

Considering the level of planning that went into the operation, I'd say the reasonable assumption is that they were full.

[NGTM-1R]

If it were an incursion the GTVA would have its first reinforcements in-system within the day. AoA wasn't an incursion, it was a single battlegroup dropped right in the middle of the hornet's nest and forced to fend for itself.

An incursion isn't just a military undertaking, we can expect Capella-style evacuations as well so it's going on at the same time as all available cargo hulls are being used to pull civilians from the battle zone. While they may be able to expect military support, or possibly being rotated off the line if they're seriously mauled, a battlegroup in the middle of an incursion in the BP-verse is essentially on its own logistically because all the ships that could be used to attend to its logistical needs are engaged in other activities.

[-Norbert-]

They had 18 years to stock those ships while the gate went up.  They were either full or the GTVA was criminally negligent.

Considering the level of planning that went into the operation, I'd say the reasonable assumption is that they were full.

But the GTVA didn't know something like the UEF existed, when they started to build the portal.
I think the GTVA only turned their minds towards conquering Sol, once their spyprobes brought back the information of what the UEF and Ubuntu were like (or appeared to be like anyway).

How much time passed exactly between the opening of the portal and the launching of the 14th through the node?

[NGTM-1R]

The fact they were sent into the dark is not a reason to understock. It is entirely the reverse.

[LordPomposity]

But the GTVA didn't know something like the UEF existed, when they started to build the portal.
I think the GTVA only turned their minds towards conquering Sol, once their spyprobes brought back the information of what the UEF and Ubuntu were like (or appeared to be like anyway).

How much time passed exactly between the opening of the portal and the launching of the 14th through the node?

Even before they knew anything about what was beyond the portal, the GTVA presumably had a contingency plan for what to do if they needed to go to war. They wouldn't have much information to base exact plans on, but "let's have a battlegroup ready to go in, and let's load it up with supplies" is pretty basic.

[-Norbert-]

The fact they were sent into the dark is not a reason to understock. It is entirely the reverse.

I agree. That by itself is no reason to do it.
But wanting to act fast enough to keep the element of surprise is a possible reason. Waiting for the ships to be fully stocked might have taken longer than Command was willing to wait.
Of course it is a risk, but considering the expected situation, a rather small one, well worth it, if it makes sure the war is over before it really got started.

If the UEF would have fortified the node, the whole quick 1-day-war idea would have become very unlikely, so they had to act fast, which they did.

But the GTVA didn't know something like the UEF existed, when they started to build the portal.
I think the GTVA only turned their minds towards conquering Sol, once their spyprobes brought back the information of what the UEF and Ubuntu were like (or appeared to be like anyway).

How much time passed exactly between the opening of the portal and the launching of the 14th through the node?

Even before they knew anything about what was beyond the portal, the GTVA presumably had a contingency plan for what to do if they needed to go to war. They wouldn't have much information to base exact plans on, but "let's have a battlegroup ready to go in, and let's load it up with supplies" is pretty basic.

Usually I would agree with that, since it makes a lot of sense, but I'm not so sure it fits the facts.
We do know for a fact that the battlegroup almost ran out of supplies (of whatever kind... Admiral Bei didn't exactly elaborate in his communication with Command), even though they were only in the parallel universe for a short time ("several days" to quote Command, so probably something around one week or less).

I'm not trying to find the most sensible possiblities here, I'm trying to find the one that fits the known facts the best.
Barring some very unlikely and unlucky Shivan hits into full supply stores on both Anemois, I can only see three other realistic options:
- GTVA ships have far less independent operating time than we all expected.
- The logistic vessels have fewer supplies stored on board than we thought.
- The fleet wasn't fully stocked.
(or any combinations of the above)
Considering the timeframe of both the preparation and operation time of the invasion and the economic and political situation of the GTVA, I think the not fully stocked option is the most likely or rather the least unlikely one.

[Scotty]

There's really not a situation where an Anemoi would go through the gate understocked unless the GTVA was being monumental idiots about logistics, which they've shown that they're not in the BP canon.  You have 18 years to stock them up while the gate is being built.  You have no idea what's on the other side of the gate.  You stock them full while you can because taking risks you don't need to take kills people.  When you find out that there are humans on the other end you don't suddenly destock the things and then send them through the portal.  That makes about as much sense as massacreing the entire military population of Sol out of principle.

[The E]

At the end of AoA, the 14th BG was severely damaged, and its ready logistical supplies (in terms of replacement parts) exhausted by the need to run extensive repairs during those few days, not to mention the stress the personnel was under.

They were definitely NOT 100% combat ready as envisioned by the original Ops plan, and at the time of their return, they had no way of knowing what the current situation was.

We have no firm data on what the endurance of GTVA vessels is (and as such, anything said by me here is not canon), but it should be assumed that a Battlegroup supported by Anemois is capable of running a regular patrol indefinitely. The life support facilities are probably as self-sustaining as they can be, while the Anemois' machine shops are capable of building anything needed provided raw materials are available, except probably for antimatter.
The assumption here is that the Battlegroup runs a patrol, has a few combat encounters, and is then able to drop back and replenish while replacement forces from other systems go to the front line.

[qwadtep]

If it were an incursion the GTVA would have its first reinforcements in-system within the day. AoA wasn't an incursion, it was a single battlegroup dropped right in the middle of the hornet's nest and forced to fend for itself.

An incursion isn't just a military undertaking, we can expect Capella-style evacuations as well so it's going on at the same time as all available cargo hulls are being used to pull civilians from the battle zone. While they may be able to expect military support, or possibly being rotated off the line if they're seriously mauled, a battlegroup in the middle of an incursion in the BP-verse is essentially on its own logistically because all the ships that could be used to attend to its logistical needs are engaged in other activities.

The point is that in an incursion, the few days afforded by Anemoi logistics is more than enough for the GTVA to scramble a full fleet to the front, allowing the initial battlegroup to withdraw to a secure system to rearm and repair.

[NGTM-1R]

If the incursion lasts very long, the GTVA expects to lose everything; their plan is to isolate the entry point and throw meson bombs down it until it breaks, as fast as possible. They can't really afford to pull people off the line if they're still even marginally combat effective when their planning is based around a do-or-die first effort, with no second chances once the juggernauts roll in. So it would behoove the GTVA to plan for their ships to be able to keep up that maximum-effort thing up until the point they've either lost or won; probably a week, possibly as many as two.