[-Norbert-]

I like the (unofficial) explenation most that all 3 nodes were destroyed, but either because it was in the "eye of the storm" or because there was an active tunnel during the explosion the Delta Serpentis one is the least unstable one.
Or maybe the other two nodes got completely obliterated while the Delta Serp. node only became unstable beyond use.

And as I type this I just got another idea:
The node in which the explosion happened stayed were it was, while the others were pushed out of the Sol system into deep space by a shockwave inside subspace. Sounds a bit wild, but hey, I'm not exactly an expert on multi-dimensional physics....

[Thaeris]

Well, we do know that subspace nodes form in the presence of gravity wells... or something like that.

Perhaps a node... sort of like a generic "wormhole"... can be collapsed, even when not in use, by a nearby subspace cataclysm due to a sudden surge of force in the local gravity well. An "open" node with a massive expulsion of energy... into a sort of dimensional rift (AKA subspace node...)... as well as the local gravity well could very well have dire consequences on any future subspace traffic. Canon FS would seem to argue my point to an extent...

So, given that we "know" that multiple different jump nodes can form in a relatively small region (see FS1...), that would likely be a probable reason for why Sol was cut off...

However, keep in mind that Proxima and Alpha Centauri are both less than 5LY from Sol. Given that we know FS ships are very fast and powerful, is it not possible that you could propel vessels to near-C speeds? Furthermore, once you got a ship within sufficient range to the system, you could use your intrasystem drives to enter and move about the system rather than continue to drift or burn fuel... Thus, I'd assume that travel to either of those two systems could be likely for the UEF...

[General Battuta]

Wait, wait, FreeSpace ships 'fast'?

I'm guessing that no FS ship is capable of reasonable subluminal intrasystem travel.

[Thaeris]

I've heard the opinion before. And it's supported a little by the cutscenes. I think FS fits into the category of "play by means of game physics, tell a story by using snippets of real physics." So, it's not unreasonable.

Furthermore, if and when we get out of the solar system, by all means the first places we'll go will be Alpha Centauri/Rigel Kentaurus, Proxima, and Sirius (which is less than 9LY from Sol).

Given the number of years that passed and no effort was seemingly made to "fly" to Sol on raw power alone implies that a massive distance like that is still rather difficult, and thus explains why no one is mentioned "taking it slow" from Sirius, a postion held by the Alliance until the NTF rebellion. However, Proxima and Alpha Centauri are a bit more likely... I'd say that a 20-year voyage to either wouldn't be out of question for a Sol expedition during Reconstruction.

[General Battuta]

I think it's assuming a lot to go with the idea that FreeSpace ships have the technical endurance or the closed-life-support-system capability required.

Murphy's Law and the nature of complex systems just seems to suggest it could be a lot harder than we assume. FreeSpace ships are basically horribly clumsy low-acceleration space stations with subspace drives, and while they can certainly keep installations going for long periods on their own, we don't know how well they'd fare on an interstellar slowboat sojourn.

[Thaeris]

This is a little note, but I think you want to be stating "intersystem" when referencing something that's travelling between systems. "Intra-" refers to something moving within - much like a standard fighter jump. Check me on this if necessary...

A destroyer or cruiser certainly has the power to move into or out of an orbit with little problem. Doing that requires quite a bit of power, and there's no shortage of that on any FS ship I know of. If modern space propulsion has the potential to get across the solar system at a reasonable pace (well, you won't see that soon because of governments and economies...  ), the FS ships certainly can do it. And do it well.

However, that doesn't bode well in warfare, where speed in the operation is critical. Thus, unless it's a peace-time op or patrol, you're not going to see the good ole' GTD GenericOrion paloosing through the planets of the Vega system. Because of the ferocity with which FS ops take place, I have no doubts that the ships in question are highly mobile. They'd have to be or they wouldn't survive! Subspace travel thus augments that capacity by months and days time, depending on the size of the system and the power of the ship of course...

Long-term survival in space is critical for the FS-verse. We know there's systems with planets, but which are habitable? One would assume that during Reconstruction you'd have situations where you'd encountered people who'd never been "planetside" before. Loosing Capella would only augment the number of people like that. For Terrans and Vasudans in the FS-verse, living in space must be a norm, not just a temporary endeavor. As such, ships in the FS-verse are designed to last and last. Canon material would seem to suggest this. Thus, long-term space voyages would certainly be possible. However, they're not practical when you could just use that new node you just found...

So, I don't think travelling slow across a system would be impossible. But, it would in most cases be doable with FS ships.

...And, interesting side note, Proxima and Alpha Centauri are only about 0.205 LY from each other. Given the massive gravity well that would ideally be formed by their close interaction could make for a logical site for a node. One would also like to assume that the resources in the system would be of great interest...

[Thaeris]

*Edit

Zut! Alpha Centauri is already listed as location with a node connecting to FS2-era locales...

Well... Maybe someone got bored and took a few years in cryo... only to be murdered by the NTF! 

[General Battuta]

You're right, I meant intersystem (and I know the difference, thanks) but actually I'm not sure they'd be great at intrasystem travel either.

Anyway, you're guilty of confusing your personal fanon (no matter how reasonable it might seem) with what we actually know.

We have no idea whether FS ships have the power to break orbit or move around in a system. They use subspace to do this.

As far as we can tell canonically, FS ships are essentially stationary (on the system scale) and use subspace for all but minor tactical maneuvers. You are wrong to say that the ferocity of FS ops means the ships have to be sublight mobile. They have to be subspace mobile. If anything they seem to have deprecated their fusion drives as a means of moving about. The fusion drives mean nothing to their survival compared to subspace. (We're talking about vessels that consider five kilometers long range here.)

As for the issue of long-term sustainability: there is a difference between a sustainable open system and a sustainable closed one. Things tend to break down.

This is the key fault in your analysis: fuel.

A ship requires fuel to accelerate to relativistic speeds. We have no idea how much FS ships carry. Unless it is a truly unlikely amount, they will take dozens or hundreds of years to make the interstellar crossing.

The biggest piece of canonical evidence confirming this is that it was not done.

[Thaeris]

We don't know if it was done or not... never said yes on no to it. Before subspace, again, we'd probably have gone to Alpha Centauri first...

But, you're right. It's fanon. However, the "canon" information you've listed is circumstantial as well. If I may again note the point about "using game mechanics to play the story, using some real mechanics to tell the story," I don't see any reason for why the points I've listed are poor. By imposing that the circumstantial arguments (which are merely based on gameplay) are the only explanations to events, your evidence is hardly better than fanon. Your third and fourth paragraph yields itself to this condition a little... I seem to remember that intrasystem jumps were inhibited by gravity wells at close ranges, such as planets. You'd thus have to break close orbit first.

Lastly, the point of this thread... and Blue Planet in general... is speculation. Fanon. Please consider that within the discussion...

[General Battuta]

Nope, you've got it backwards. Gravity wells enhance intrasystem jumps; in fact they're a necessary precondition. FreeSpace is oddly mute on how close one can get to a planetary body and still jump about.

There is nothing circumstantial about the fact that FreeSpace ships have extraordinarily low velocities and accelerations. Nothing at all.

Nor is there anything circumstantial about the fact that nobody flew to Earth from Alpha Centauri in spite of it being the shortest possible hop.

We NEVER SEE FreeSpace ships performing gravity slingshots, rapid sublight travel between planets, moving through mission areas at thousands of kilometers per second, engaging in RKV bombardment - any of that. It simply does not happen. It does not happen in the gameplay, nor does it happen in the fluff.

'Merely based on gameplay' is silly. Gameplay is all we have. There is no fluff that contradicts gameplay in this regard.

There's nothing to consider.

Nor does any of your argument counter the fact that even with something like realistic velocities for their fusion drives, FS ships don't appear to carry enough fuel by mass to make a relativistic journey in a reasonable timespan.

FreeSpace ships don't NEED to be fast. They can make instantaneous jumps at very rapid intervals. They can afford to putter about at ridiculously, absurdly low speeds and fight at archaic base velocities, because subspace completely changes the dynamic of the battlespace.

[-Norbert-]

Apart from the matter wether it is possible to travel between systems without subspace in FS2, would it really make sense?
Why would the GTVA want to send a ship that takes decades to Sol and then the same time to get back? Just to say "Hello we are still out there and searching for a way to repair the node"?

Pretty much the same goes for the UEF. By the time their harvesting ships return from the "nearby" systems, whatever the UEF needs the ressources for is most likely finished, used and discarded already.
Though it might make a nice storypoint for BP3 that maybe a faction in Sol build a sleepership and then build a colony in Proxima, though there has to be a subspace node there to some known system in order for them to have any impact on the story of course. From all we know the Knossos can only stabilize already existing nodes too unstable for use, not create new ones from nothing.

And about the ships not needing sublight drives: The games are very inconsitant on that part. On one side we have ships jumping out in the middle of nowhere, on the other side we have ships that need to be escorted right into the jumpnode before they can make a jump...

[General Battuta]

Right, but those escorts are usually over a distance of a couple kilometers.

Radio transmissions between Sol and Alpha Centauri were probably attempted (and even hinted at in the BP continuity), but either they were unsuccessful or the results were classified.

[-Norbert-]

I thought those transmissions took place once the portal was up and running.

[General Battuta]

There were probe flights. I believe there's a mention in the dossier somewhere earlier of attempted radio traffic pre-FS2.

[Sushi]

The biggest piece of canonical evidence confirming this is that it was not done.

True that.

But it makes for a great opening for a non-canonical campaign premise. What if while the Terran Knossos was still being constructed, a long-term expedition from Sol arrived? Or maybe the shattered remnants of one?

Alternately, you could base a campaign from the point of view of such a mission... what horrors lurk in the night between stars?

[Thaeris]

Nope, you've got it backwards. Gravity wells enhance intrasystem jumps; in fact they're a necessary precondition. FreeSpace is oddly mute on how close one can get to a planetary body and still jump about.

I did feel a bit offended by the nature in which you replied to some of my musings. I suppose that's mostly irrelevant... please consider your tone, though. Passing me off as ignorant is a bit rash.

I'm going to try and defend one point though, or at least ask for some more information: The above statement is still bothering me. I could have sworn there was something in one of the main campaigns dealing with subspace travel being inhibited at the intra-system level due to a local gravity well... probably from a planet. I'd like to know if someone can back me up on this...

Just as clarification, I'm well aware of how intra-system movements are supposed to take place. I've also noted the proper means by which they might be employed in prior posts...

[General Battuta]

Right, fair enough.

I'll look about for such a citation.

The only situation I can recall in FS2 in which a planet was remotely relevant was the very first mission. In that case, the civilian transports simply didn't have jump drives. Were planets at all involved in any other FreeSpace missions? Maybe something in FS1?

[Thaeris]

I think it might have been FS1.

...Of course, it could have been a fan campaign as well, albeit a good one which made a good case in their story-writing. I'm thinking I might need to replay FS1 on the Port soon, so I'll look into this personally as well.

[Aardwolf]

I could have sworn there was something in one of the main campaigns dealing with subspace travel being inhibited at the intra-system level due to a local gravity well... probably from a planet.

That was in Derelict.

They ( ) hadn't made up the "gravity affects stuff" fluff when FS1 war released, and it's not even clear they had a very clear idea of what a subspace node was either.

[Snail]

Gravity was mentioned as being necessary in the FS2 intel bank, but that's about it.