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What did even Calder try to do? (Spoilers for WiH below)
MC_Kejml:
In act 3 in Her Finest Hour, Laporte assumes command of two Narayanas, one torn up Karuna (between 6 beam-attackers) and is informed that 4 cruisers had been just taken down.
It is said Calder tried to assault the Carthage by himself.
But I keep asking myself - what the hell did he try to do? No fighter escort for the larger ships, cruisers down, one corvette almost lost, two artilery ships besieged by 2 Corvettes and 2 Mjolnirs. There are no reports of Tev ships being taken down, and he didn't lose any fighter escort for the ships in the meantime (he keeps all the fighters with Toutatis). What would happen if the Fedayeen didn't intervene?
What the hell was he thinking?
Damage:
The frigates Vikrant and Toreador, as well as the Serenity, presumably had their own fighters at some point, though we never see them in-game. Presumably they were destroyed before Falcata wing shows up, or weren't available in the first place.
The Fedayeen want this operation to go down, and they convinced Calder to go along with it. (It's not impossible they mislead him a little, either.) Calder has probably reviewed as much information as possible regarding the battle at Saturn. Remember that four frigates, two cruisers, and a couple wings of fighters came within a hair's breadth of wiping out that entire battlegroup in a pitched battle--with NO strike or fleet bomber support. He wants this to be a repeat of Saturn, but without the twist ending this time.
Calder's initial attack has one light and two heavy frigates and four cruisers, with whatever fighters they might have (unknown) plus AWACS support. On paper, it's almost equal to the Wargods' battle group in terms of firepower, and he's holding the Toutatis and its fighters and bombers in reserve to make the actual attack on the Carthage itself. He probably also expects the Fedayeen will support him somehow militarily, if he asks. At the same time, Lopez has fewer capital ships and fighters for the Carthage' defense, and those ships are hampered because they must also defend Neptune HQ and the evacuating transports--and thus can't move too far away.
Calder's choice is this: either attack the Carthage and capture/kill it and regain control of Neptune HQ, or do nothing then lose the HQ and the Carthage battle group remains active anyway.
The correlation of forces seems favorable, and on paper, this is not a terrible plan. Calder's biggest problem is that he has almost nothing else left to throw into a battle.
MC_Kejml:
--- Quote from: Damage on May 14, 2018, 11:11:09 am ---The frigates Vikrant and Toreador, as well as the Serenity, presumably had their own fighters at some point, though we never see them in-game. Presumably they were destroyed before Falcata wing shows up, or weren't available in the first place.
The Fedayeen want this operation to go down, and they convinced Calder to go along with it. (It's not impossible they mislead him a little, either.) Calder has probably reviewed as much information as possible regarding the battle at Saturn. Remember that four frigates, two cruisers, and a couple wings of fighters came within a hair's breadth of wiping out that entire battlegroup in a pitched battle--with NO strike or fleet bomber support. He wants this to be a repeat of Saturn, but without the twist ending this time.
Calder's initial attack has one light and two heavy frigates and four cruisers, with whatever fighters they might have (unknown) plus AWACS support. On paper, it's almost equal to the Wargods' battle group in terms of firepower, and he's holding the Toutatis and its fighters and bombers in reserve to make the actual attack on the Carthage itself. He probably also expects the Fedayeen will support him somehow militarily, if he asks. At the same time, Lopez has fewer capital ships and fighters for the Carthage' defense, and those ships are hampered because they must also defend Neptune HQ and the evacuating transports--and thus can't move too far away.
Calder's choice is this: either attack the Carthage and capture/kill it and regain control of Neptune HQ, or do nothing then lose the HQ and the Carthage battle group remains active anyway.
The correlation of forces seems favorable, and on paper, this is not a terrible plan. Calder's biggest problem is that he has almost nothing else left to throw into a battle.
--- End quote ---
The comparison with the Wargods crew is fair, they had the same manpower without Toutatis backing them up (now how would that end?). Then I don't see what tactic did Calder use, it seems only like "throwing stuff at a wall of beams". Or do you think Calder deliberately put up a losing battle...?
Damage:
--- Quote from: MC_Kejml on May 14, 2018, 01:11:51 pm ---Or do you think Calder deliberately put up a losing battle...?
--- End quote ---
Not at all--Calder can't afford that. I merely submit that he made a choice, and bit off more than he could chew that day. It's only the assistance of the Fedayeen, their stealth fighters, and their Vasudan-originated viruses that turns the tide of the battle--and it's still a near thing.
However, I don't put it past the Fedayeen to have pushed Calder into it, possibly with a little misinformation on their part. (Like leaving out a few details about the defenses, for instance.) They see losing the Carthage as a chink in Steele's armor, but probably don't have the Fleet-level resources needed to just do it themselves--and certainly not in the time-frame required.
That begs the question, exactly how many fleet assets does the Fedayeen control? A few squadrons of stealth fighters, at least one frigate, a few smaller combatant ships and AWACS at least, but probably not much more.
crizza:
Calder did nothing wrong. It was all about exploiting a weak point. The Tevs overextended and were in the process of giving up Neptune, relocating their force to Jupiter AFAIK.
If Calder would have faced Steele at Neptune, the Tevs would have lost the Station and tens of thousands of GTVA personnel, as well as medical ships and fleet tankers, although I think he would've left only the personell behind, enacting General Order Seventeen: destroying the Neptune base and everyone aboard in order to prevent its capture.
The weak point was Lopez, because she showed compassion and after the mauling of her battlegroup, she was unwilling to sacrifice more.
Calder went all in with Vikrant, Toreador, Serenity, Segura, Tripoli, Wolfach and Glaurus engaging the Carthage and its screen. The Wolfach withdrew and the Glaurus went down with all hands. If memory serves right, the Segura and Tripoli were gone and the Serenety disengaging. Calder actually depended on the Fedayeen for winning this for him.
Netreba pinned down the offbalanced Tev forces and Steele could and would not send help, unwilling to engage in a decisive fleet battle.
While Calder hoped a victory would hurt the Tevs, quite the opposite happened...
But he was not decieved, he was rather willing to go for it, but was informed at the same time. He did not trust the Fedayeen, but Laporte, hence she was in command.
Edit as for fleet assets: If we assume that the Masyaf, which is on first fleet deterrence assignment, this would leave the Shiraz, a Karuna which is deterence also, so there is a possibility that she is Fedayeen too.
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