Hard Light Productions Forums
Archived Boards => The Archive => Blackwater Operations => Topic started by: Ace on September 26, 2005, 11:17:25 pm
-
(http://www.savant-online.net/graphics/bwo_screen14.jpg)
A scene from the first level, showing off the capabilities of FS Open.
(http://www.savant-online.net/graphics/bwo_screen15.jpg)
This shot is of the Charon, an older shot without any HT&L ships. You'll see those when we're ready to show them, no sooner ;)
-
Mm.
-
As much as I never expected to say it, that new Aeolus is a thing of beauty :)
Nice screens, though I have to say they are particularly non-teasing as we've seen everything there before. 'Cept the backgrounds, of course.
-
Mallory: Alpha 1, requesting deactivation of the deflector shield!
Impressive shots. That new Aeolus is a beauty. I was wondering, are the backgrounds you used for the Charon area in BWO somewhat similar to the backgrounds used in the second last mission of FS1 (which takes place in the same area)?
-
FS1 didn't maintain consistency in any of its backgrounds, but we've kept coloration similar to FS2's in game and cutscene backgrounds.
-
would the designers deign to give us an updated estimated time of completion
please dont hurt me
*runs*
-
Considering that Derelict and Warzone are also included in the count as of BWO, the count of Aeoluses reaches to almost _three_ dozen (at least half a dozen of which were non-GTVA in Derelict).
From this I surmise the crew just said "bah, Fenris sucks; let's just say they made another production run or two, and use the Aeolus as much as we want." :p
So IMO the tech entry oughta be updated, to say something like "Though the original order to build Aeolus cruisers only called for two dozen, the high levels of attrition in the NTF war and the Second Shivan Incursion forced the GTVA to build more in order to replace their aging Fenris and Leviathan cruisers." Summin like that.
(Or you could use that sentence verbatim if you want.) :)
-
Actually yes, there was a second run.
Counting all of the ones we know were in FS2 (all of which could be potentially destroyed), Warzone, and Derelict there would be about two Aeoluses left. ;)
Several FS2 Aeoluses (and other ships) as well as ones from Warzone and Derelict are in the campaign.
However, there was a demand for the ship so a new variant was constructed in the five or so years since Warzone. (older surviving ships have also been refitted)
Slightly more powerful beams, longer range flak, etc.
There have been a few GTVA experiments in cruisers using meson cannons... nothing came out of them.
Also I don't see what's so unrealistic about a second run of the Aeolus. There's a precedent for it in FS, the Leviathan being a modified Fenris hull for the V-T war.
As opposed to declaring a second ship class though, these are just rearmed Aeoluses.
-
Is it the "Fenris Advanced" or "Orion Advanced?" No.
We are debating doing a re-release of the demo before the final campaign with updated mods.
The current demo was designed to be used with retail FS2, not FSO. Unfortunately it appears that some of the FSO changes have made the demo no longer compatable.
-
Originally posted by High Max
There are no planet backgrounds in FS1.
Wrong.
Proof:
(http://mekhu.woodentoyandgift.com/images/screen00.gif)
-
There were planets in FS1 in the early stages of the game. Not sure how to explain that shot...could be FS2...
Backgrounds in BWO are consistent with each other and somewhat consistent with what they were doing in FS2. As much as possible. Just a heck of alot cooler.
RE: Aeolous - Most of us campaign designers just agreed that there were more built later so we toss them in all over the place. Its nice to have a good cruiser in there that isn't a Fenris or Leviathan. Those have been done to death :D
-
Originally posted by IceFire
There were planets in FS1 in the early stages of the game. Not sure how to explain that shot...could be FS2...
It's not. It's FS1 P3 OEM.
-
No better proof than that as to why the FS1 source no longer exists. Background bitmaps are a FS2 feature that aren't present in most FS1 builds.
-
Originally posted by Raa
It's not. It's FS1 P3 OEM.
AHH YES! I totally forgot about this version. You are correct.
-
As I said before, the most stunning thing I see on the new shots is the starfield. Really, really nice :yes:
-
Originally posted by Ace
The current demo was designed to be used with retail FS2, not FSO. Unfortunately it appears that some of the FSO changes have made the demo no longer compatable.
What changes? Everything in retail should be compatible with FSO.
It's entirely possible you have bad table files, however. :p
-
The demo works for me in FSO.
The problem is that the demo itself is a little out dated.
-
In order words...the demo can be more purty :D
-
I think it's a given that we'll do a re-release of the demo with the finalized BWO mods. :)
-
We'll have to really, it's part of the story.
-
...re-doing the demo and making sure it works with the new stuff delays the end project, dont do it lol not worth the time and effort me thinkgs :p
-
Well now that you've said that, we'll definatly re-do it.
-
I have been watching you guys since 2001 I think. I know I was in college. I registered back then when you were still voilitionwatch and only posted once. Since then I have just logged in occasionally and checked out the situations with Freespace. Anyway, this has become a pass time.
I loved FS1 and FS2 since I was in high school(like 14 or so).
Contrary to what everyone keeps on saying, I don't ever want BWO released. I want you to keep on working on it forever.
IF YOU RELEASE IT, I WOULD BE VERY SAD.
You mustn't. You must keep working on it so when I am in my mid-30s and bored I can still come back here and get a few laughs.
Seriously though, you guys are the most devoted developers I have ever met. What started out as a simple campaign has span 5 years or is it 6 now, you have gone from just creating a campaign to actually helping to rewrite the source code for FS2. Oh ya that was when I registered, I ask if I could help out with the SCP and I was going to put movies in or something but never got around to much after that.
From a computer scientist, my hat is off to you. You have no idea how many of my fellow students would die before putting the effort you have into this project. I am referring to those students getting paid to do it too.
Anyway, I was sitting here working on patent and I just had to register and post.
I just SNAPPED. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME.
I guess I should read I have to have this done by morning.
I really meant it though you guys are sooooooo much fun.
Cross thread but I remember Dark and Agatheron along with many others who are no longer here.
I loved watching you guys through the flame war with Derek. I think it is hilarious that you always find something else to tweak or add.
I am always half expecting to come back and find that you guys have finally quit. I thought for sure that when IceFire graduated(I guess that was what happened right?) BWO would die. But you guys are still here torturing people.
OH AND I LOVE THE WEBSITE. THE GAME HAS BEEN OUT FOR OVER A YEAR NOW HUH.
Anyway, I posted this all as a joke and I hope no one takes offense.
PLEASE DON'T BAN ME.
PLEASE DON'T RIDICULE OR HATE ME.
Oh I definitely think that it you ever do finish BWO, you absolutely must do a sequel. As BlackDove(I think?) said, you must then torture the community with it for the next 5 to 10 years. I swear the most hillarious part is FS2 came out in 1998(7 or 8 years ago) and you guys are still working on it.
I have been watching BWO and I will consider it the true FS3 in many ways. I think it is the most... true of any of the major plot additions. Inferno is good too but I don't know about the Gigas and the whats the biggest thing?(and I hope there is no insult with me saying that and I hope I am remembering my campaigns(its been a while))
Man you can tell I'm a windbag lawyer. Either that or I am extremely sleep deprived and I have no clue what I am doing. You know what **** this reading. I will just tell the Prof I did not have time because I was posting. He will be fine with that. Hmmm, must think up better excuse.
-
Pressing the "post reply" button is bad for you. It causes me to hate you.
I'll be nice today. It's your first post (craziest first post I've ever seen, but still a first one)
Next time I won't. The "edit" button is right there.
Use it.
Oh and :welcome:
It's nice to have fans. Even if they're batshit insane.
-
Sorry I got carried away. I really am quite sane. :nervous: Really I am.
-
No no no. I want to play it bad. Else, I honestly would not come back over and over for 5 years. On the other hand, at this point I would be sad if the wait was over. It has been soo long I would not know what to do if the wait was over. I love coming back here and seeing that it is still not done. On the other hand I would love to play it. That is why I said you must continue and produce the further sequel to BWO and make me wait another 10 years for that one. Else what would I have to do.
Seriously High Max I am just full of it and making a joke.
I want the mod. I want to play it. I just can't write jokes like this in life. (Other lawyers and Profs would not like it very much) I just wanted to play around. Also consider I hadn't slept in 40 hours. But I would be sad to some extent that the development of the wonderful mod was over. I don't know. Class
-
Originally posted by Osiri
Also consider I hadn't slept in 40 hours.
:lol:
-
Best. Posts. Ever. :lol:
-
Man is this thread ever dead. What happened I came in and ran everyone off. (see my first post ever here above THE REALLY LONG ONE)
Do I smell that bad? Was it something I said? I guess I am doomed to loneliness for the rest of eternity.
I am like Akin. Oh well doomed to roam alone.
YES I AM ALONE AGAIN WOO HOO.
-
It's not you, I rarely come across new posting on this forum myself. That's probably a good thing, means they're working on getting BWO done :D.
-
Originally posted by Osiri
Man is this thread ever dead. What happened I came in and ran everyone off. (see my first post ever here above THE REALLY LONG ONE)
Do I smell that bad? Was it something I said? I guess I am doomed to loneliness for the rest of eternity.
I am like Akin. Oh well doomed to roam alone.
YES I AM ALONE AGAIN WOO HOO.
Man...give me an hour to get to the post or something or other :)
I totally missed this one and its fantastic. Thanks for joining us and sharing in the collective insanity...because really...we are.
Yeah BWO has gone on for a very long time. When I started plotting this thing out with Kellan over ICQ years ago I was in High School. Now I'm a university graduate starting at my first job (ironically at the university). My role is backseat now...I just post stupid messages like this one. The movers and shakers are BlackDove and Ace and really after all this time I couldn't stay very focused.
But I do my bit and I'm starting to work on some website stuff in the near future. It needs some work and I need to get to it sometime soon.
Anyways, thanks for joining and welcome to the HLPBB!
-
And now I've killed the thread properly...
-
Make way! Make way, I'm a doctor and I know what to do.
*grabs defibrillator pads*
All clear--I'm shocking on 3--1, 2, 3
*BZZZZZZZ*
No reaction ....come on ...you can do it.....don't you dare dying on me.
All clear--I'm shocking on 3--1, 2, 3
*BZZZZZZZ*
Damned, we're losing it. Inject another 50ccm of liquified new screenshots or it's gone for good!
-
(flatline noise) He's dead, Jim........
-
lol this thread has just about had it
Not even the doctor can revive it
I can't believe that IceFire was the death of the Thread
-
Maybe I'm just totally out of it, but in that first screen, what is that object at the top center?
Maybe it's some new kind of ship or sentry gun or something? Maybe it's a secret... :nervous: Maybe it's just debris and my eyes are fooling me. Anyway, what is it?
-
would appear to be either a rock, or peice of debris.
-
Yup, no HTL asteroids yet in game.
-
If by HTL you mean "high poly" then TBP has higher poly asteroids. Go ask Sigma957 or Stithe2000 about them.
Oh and, finished yet? :D
-
Never
-
It's not. It's FS1 P3 OEM.
Where, oh God where can I find this most enigmatic FS1 version?!
Are the FS1 planet backgrounds real, or merely manifestations of PaintShop skillz? If they are, how can they be used in retail FS1? Any idea? Am I wasting my time?
-
Hmm...,
I haven't found any other reference to the P3 OEM version, other than the posted screenshot. Does it really exist? And if so, where can I get my greedy hands on it? I guess the only difference is the EXE, so that's really all that's needed.
-
Actually the OEM version, Darkness Rising, did not have planet backgrounds.
Those were in an earlier build, shortly after the idea of fully 3d planets with gravity effects was dropped. (to be used as "space terrain" that blocked sensors, etc.)
-
There must have been more than one OEM version then. Because I have the FS1 Pentium III OEM version that came on DVD, which has both planet backgrounds and afterburner trails.
-
And that's w/ a new EXE, innit? Alternatively, very weird looking FSM missions, wotsit? Just outta curio, if you have that ver, could u p'raps post the #Background part of, for instance, the EOD mission. For a comparison, y'kno.
-
I just like to say that I think another screenie or teaser pic of some sort is needed. ;7
-
In two weeks. I'll make a bundle.
-
dont u mean to say in two weeks your releasing BWO :p.....that'll be the day...
-
God I hope so.
-
God I hope so.
Feature creep will not help you. :P
-
Feature creep hasn't helped us either ;)
-
That's exactly what I meant. Though, I suspect, in a different sense from how it was interpreted.
-
There must have been more than one OEM version then. Because I have the FS1 Pentium III OEM version that came on DVD, which has both planet backgrounds and afterburner trails.
I know this post is from October, but this is the first I'm reading of it. Apparently, Goober, you and I have the same FS1 DVD.
-
question, why does the jumpgate lead right into a planet?
-
I never got the impression that planets existed in subspace.
-
Because they don't ? :confused:
-
question, why does the jumpgate lead right into a planet?
Because it looks pretty?
-
Ah, must be the GTVA's recent invention, the Galactic Terran Suicide Booth.
-
question, why does the jumpgate lead right into a planet?
Mmmm it doesn't. What do you mean?
Subspace has no correlation with real space so where the subspace node exists has little to do with where a planet does. Infact I bet that a subspace node can pass right through a planet with no ill effects. Its barely present in normal space...its a slight tear. If its stable enough than a GTVA ship with suitably equipped inter-system subspace drive technology can make the subspace jump, travel the corridor, and arrive at the other side.
Planets matter not. However, in terms of the BWO campaign, we use alot of planets (now completely high res and drop dead gorgeous) to show the player that they are in a particular location. We're very consistent where planets appear and what is nearby. Its part of the "space terrain" sort of feeling we initially set out to create when dealing with the MOD work on BWO.
-
I thaught subspace was connected to gravity, if that's the case a subspace node may not even be able to come near a planet...
-
Hmm. Now, if the node had an exit at a point in space, and a planet happened to block it while something tried to leave subspace, what would happen?
Would it be a wall of destruction like what Ace and I did to Trashman in nodewars? Or would it be a planet killer?
-
[Scotish]Yoo'd beam right into solid rock Cap'n[/Scotish]
-
Hmm. Now, if the node had an exit at a point in space, and a planet happened to block it while something tried to leave subspace, what would happen?
Would it be a wall of destruction like what Ace and I did to Trashman in nodewars? Or would it be a planet killer?
Assuming the jump is *into* the planet, the node opening would be equivalent to an anti-matter bomb, with further damage from the gravitational shearing of the "blue whoosy bits." The object coming through though would slam into the solid rock.
So, not a planet killer. Not even a small tremor probably. But a dead ship.
In the case of jumping inside of asteroids or ships, they'd be torn apart by the node opening and so a ship would just fly on through. (sort of like in B5)
-
Hmm. Now, if the node had an exit at a point in space, and a planet happened to block it while something tried to leave subspace, what would happen?
Would it be a wall of destruction like what Ace and I did to Trashman in nodewars? Or would it be a planet killer?
Assuming the jump is *into* the planet, the node opening would be equivalent to an anti-matter bomb, with further damage from the gravitational shearing of the "blue whoosy bits." The object coming through though would slam into the solid rock.
So, not a planet killer. Not even a small tremor probably. But a dead ship.
In the case of jumping inside of asteroids or ships, they'd be torn apart by the node opening and so a ship would just fly on through. (sort of like in B5)
sounds like a useful weapon, tho. strap a set of engines and subspace generator to a meson bomb, have one jump in right ontop of a city/station, and -boom-
-
Jump Nodes?
I always thought they were like simply a current graphic on the hud, not actual permanent places, that show the outer la grange point so a ship can jump from one star system to the next so nothing is in the way (smack!) when you go FTL in subspace (hence calculating for planetary/star masses like in star wars hyperdrive. Except you can't go anywahere like them, only to the next star system.). IS the FS2 info a contrdiction to that type of thought?.
-
Inter-system nodes aren't L-Points. Intra-system subspace drives are quite different in nature than inter-system drives. (thus the big deal in FS1 when they could be fitted for the Altair mission)
Intra-system drives require a large gravity field to work, otherwise energy requirements are going to be exponentially higher. (which is why we don't see hundreds of small jumps from Alpha Centauri to Earth working)
Inter-system jumps require a alot of energy, but enough that ships can generate them. Plus they require 'special' points in space, subspace nodes.
Technically though even inta-system drives 'activate' subspace nodes, they're just not the special 'inter-system' ones.
-
Jump Nodes?
I always thought they were like simply a current graphic on the hud, not actual permanent places, that show the outer la grange point so a ship can jump from one star system to the next so nothing is in the way (smack!) when you go FTL in subspace (hence calculating for planetary/star masses like in star wars hyperdrive. Except you can't go anywahere like them, only to the next star system.). IS the FS2 info a contrdiction to that type of thought?.
Not sure exactly what you mean....but...in FreeSpace the subspace conduits that run between star systems are totally removed from real space. The actual ship is traveling a normal speed but inside of the subspace corridor. So it can't run into another star or planet or whatever is "in the way" because nothing is in the way of the conduit...it doesn't exist in normal space...except for its two end points. My guess on subspace nodes forming is that they are governed largely by overall gravitic influences within the galaxy...so system are linked based on the overall arrangement of stars in the galaxy which is why some nodes are unstable and become stable or other nodes are unstable and become stable. Mind you...you can accelerate the stability process with a Knossos portal or destabilize a node...but I think those are largely "time limited events" where the overall gravitational forces will either repair or further destabilize a node over thousands and millions of years.
-
Using subspace near planets was never a problem. The node in that Bastion mission in FS2 had a planet behind it.
But if your using hyperspace, now that could be a problem.
-
Also, when the Aelous was first produced, only 2 dozen were ever created. Many were destroyed in the NTF Rebellion, Warzone, and Derelect. I would think the Aelous line of cruisers would be extinct by now since its production ended after 2 dozen were made and about 24 were destroyed by now. So how can you have that class of cruiser in BWO if it is extinct? How about make a replacement cruiser class.
It might've been that alot of them were destroyed, but GTVA still would have blueprints to make more, and they were an effective cruiser
-
Also, when the Aelous was first produced, only 2 dozen were ever created. Many were destroyed in the NTF Rebellion, Warzone, and Derelect. I would think the Aelous line of cruisers would be extinct by now since its production ended after 2 dozen were made and about 24 were destroyed by now. So how can you have that class of cruiser in BWO if it is extinct? How about make a replacement cruiser class.
It might've been that alot of them were destroyed, but GTVA still would have blueprints to make more, and they were an effective cruiser
Yep I agree...they still know how to build them and they were extremely effective. Warzone and most of the other campaigns I've talked with people about assume that the production lines were just restarted and there were more of the cruisers made after FreeSpace 2 ended.
-
Jump Nodes?
I always thought they were like simply a current graphic on the hud, not actual permanent places, that show the outer la grange point so a ship can jump from one star system to the next so nothing is in the way (smack!) when you go FTL in subspace (hence calculating for planetary/star masses like in star wars hyperdrive. Except you can't go anywahere like them, only to the next star system.). IS the FS2 info a contrdiction to that type of thought?.
In FS2 terminology, a jump node does not move or ship places. While it may appear that it does, judging by where you warp in, and the position of other ships in a battle, it doesn't. The jump node 'sphere' is there so all ships can see it, but with proper scientific equipment, you'd see its probably a stange natural reoccuring phenomenon in space, sort of like a black hole. Black holes are there. It's like the wind.
"Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there." ;)
-
Also, when the Aelous was first produced, only 2 dozen were ever created. Many were destroyed in the NTF Rebellion, Warzone, and Derelect. I would think the Aelous line of cruisers would be extinct by now since its production ended after 2 dozen were made and about 24 were destroyed by now. So how can you have that class of cruiser in BWO if it is extinct? How about make a replacement cruiser class.
It might've been that alot of them were destroyed, but GTVA still would have blueprints to make more, and they were an effective cruiser
No, RNI Shipyards has the blueprints, and if they don't make anymore, the GTVA is screwed. The GTVA is not communist--it is supplied by contractor companies.
-
I think the reason the Aeolus didn't succeed is because the Deimos is better. The Aeolus may be the best cruiser, but it's not as good as a corvette. I suppose if the GTVA wanted more Aeolus cruisers (wtf is the plural?) they could just commission more from RNI. RNI probably stopped since the GTVA stopped asking for them. Besides, the GTVA could just as easily get another contractor (Han-Ronald? Triton? Nankam?) to go and make a better cruiser (GTC Omgwtfisthat-abix).
-
Possibly also the Aeolus had a very poor cost-to-effectiveness ratio.
However, I'd think that in the aftermath of Capella, the GTVA would need something cheap that they could churn out to try and keep piracy in check.
-
IIRC, the Leviathan has about as much anti-capital ship firepower as the Aeolus. That missile turret at the bottom (mortar i think its called) can certainly put hurt onto another ship because it continues puts out rounds, instead of short bursts of beam cannon fire.
-
But it only does like 35 damage.(Yes i have been reading table files to much :lol:).And a Levy has 1 S(mall)green While a Aeolus has 2.Also a Aeolus would pound the Levy with Flak.Aeolus also has more Health than the Levy.
-
But it only does like 35 damage.(Yes i have been reading table files to much :lol:).And a Levy has 1 S(mall)green While a Aeolus has 2.Also a Aeolus would pound the Levy with Flak.Aeolus also has more Health than the Levy.
pfffft. What have you been smokin? a Lev can take alot more punishment then an aeolus can! I could take out an Aeolus with maxims and trebuchets, but for a Lev i'd probably need a bomber wing.
Also an Aeolus' turrets are very exposed. the Leviathan has peepholes for turrets.
-
pfffft. What have you been smokin? a Lev can take alot more punishment then an aeolus can! I could take out an Aeolus with maxims and trebuchets, but for a Lev i'd probably need a bomber wing.
Actually, Leviathan has 35k HP, but Aeolus has 38K HP. The Aeolus actually beats the Leviathan head on, but the Leviathan is better against fighters since it has FOUR AAAfs, the Aeolus only has two AAAf. Flak doesn't do crap.
However, I'd think that in the aftermath of Capella, the GTVA would need something cheap that they could churn out to try and keep piracy in check.
Like Axem's Cretheus! It's about as big as a Satis but has six flak guns!! :D
-
pfffft. What have you been smokin? a Lev can take alot more punishment then an aeolus can! I could take out an Aeolus with maxims and trebuchets, but for a Lev i'd probably need a bomber wing.
Actually, Leviathan has 35k HP, but Aeolus has 38K HP. The Aeolus actually beats the Leviathan head on, but the Leviathan is better against fighters since it has FOUR AAAfs, the Aeolus only has two AAAf. Flak doesn't do crap.
However, I'd think that in the aftermath of Capella, the GTVA would need something cheap that they could churn out to try and keep piracy in check.
Like Axem's Cretheus! It's about as big as a Satis but has six flak guns!! :D
You're probably right, since i'm almost certain you've jumped on FRED 2 to have a look at their HP and i haven't bothered (lazy), but do you suppose its possible that some missions might edit the hull strength of a ship in a mission? It's just that most of the Aeolus' i've fought seemed to be dangerous, but weak hulled. Not as weak as a Fenris, but not as strong as a Leviathan.
-
Flak you. :lol: its because time go faster or something....
-
You're probably right, since i'm almost certain you've jumped on FRED 2 to have a look at their HP and i haven't bothered (lazy), but do you suppose its possible that some missions might edit the hull strength of a ship in a mission? It's just that most of the Aeolus' i've fought seemed to be dangerous, but weak hulled. Not as weak as a Fenris, but not as strong as a Leviathan.
I looked at the Wiki. Retail can't have individual ship hull strengths, but FS2Open can with the 'Special Hits' tab. I think your illusion may be behind the fact that in missions you fight the Aeolus, you have lots of wingmen to help you, but some missions with the Leviathan you have only 3 Myrmidons with Subachs and Rockeyes to help.
-
I think the reason the Aeolus didn't succeed is because the Deimos is better. The Aeolus may be the best cruiser, but it's not as good as a corvette. I suppose if the GTVA wanted more Aeolus cruisers (wtf is the plural?) they could just commission more from RNI. RNI probably stopped since the GTVA stopped asking for them. Besides, the GTVA could just as easily get another contractor (Han-Ronald? Triton? Nankam?) to go and make a better cruiser (GTC Omgwtfisthat-abix).
Commissioning, developing, and building a new class of warship would likely take years.
-
It would be ready for when it's needed I suppose.
-
ok, first of all, no were does it say anything about the shivans except the obvius. it is mentioned that they MIGHT have a hive mind just one second before a comment about how you shouldn't atribute them with such a quality.
second the Shivans might, just possibly, maybe, have a technological advantage over everyone else not because of there social structure, but because they have been a spacefareing civilization for no less than ten _thousand_ ****ing years. that could posibly have an effect on things, maybe.
third, the concept of money causes humans to compete with each other, if we were only looking out for the benefit of our kind then we would only be motivated to improve things when there was some sort of problem. with competition you must constantly try to improve over everyone else. further only the successful survive the process allowing darwinian action to refine the species further. in a non-competitive society, the weak are held up by the strong, eventually this will weaken the entire population.
-
Summary of long post: Humans will work for the good of the race, not for money in return.
Communism?
second the Shivans might, just possibly, maybe, have a technological advantage over everyone else not because of there social structure, but because they have been a spacefareing civilization for no less than ten _thousand_ ****ing years. that could posibly have an effect on things, maybe.
It is likely that they were around for longer than 10,000 ****ing years, too.
-
in a non-competitive society, the weak are held up by the strong, eventually this will weaken the entire population.
Thank you Ayn Rand :p
-
There are many, many documented cases of natural selection. talkorigins.net however is the place to take this and not the Blackwater Operations board.
Social Spencerism (Spencer developed the concepts of Social Darwinism, not Darwin) and Randian Objectivism are also falsely justified by flawed interpretations of concepts in the biological sciences, but this is once again a debate for another place.
Thread closed.