Author Topic: Too hard  (Read 7050 times)

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Offline JCQ

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I have to put invincibility in order to be certain missions. no other mod has given me this much trouble even on the easiest setting.

 

Offline Droid803

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I can't really say anything if you don't go into any more specifics.
Exactly what is causing you trouble - accomplishing objectives or simply staying alive?
What exactly is killing you? Hostile fighters? Flak screens?

Please provide some details or I can't really do anything but go : "Well, you're probably doing something horribly wrong."
(´・ω・`)
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Im guessing its the fighters, they're a pain unless you learn to glide like them.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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That's what tutorials are for :p
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Offline Deadly in a Shadow

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The tutorial is even telling you how to glide and stuff. How helpful :D

Otherwise, reducing the difficulty could be very helpful.
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Offline z64555

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When doing turns, make use of the lateral in verticle thrusters: in the direction your turning for sharper turns, away from the direction for sweeping turns.

Also, if your primary input device is a trackball or mouse: be wary of cramp-ups! I had to switch to a joystick by the end of the 3rd or 4th mission.
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Offline Destiny

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Insane difficulty before release ver.


Insane difficulty after release ver.


« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 10:45:43 am by Destiny »

 

Offline Dragon

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In general, DE is hard. It's AI is consistent over all difficulty levels, and pretty much the only thing that changes is player's armor buffs, which might not really be enough to compensate for better AI, not to mention they don't help at all while escorting things.

 

Offline JCQ

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its some of the special "boss" fighters that are giving me the most trouble. some of these "boss" fighters like megan seem to have fighters that are faster than my fighter. idk. nothing else really bothers me. i use a keyboard and a ps3 controller to play btw. i cant use the mouse it just is too hard to play with it.

 

Offline Destiny

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Try harder, then :P And I'm preeeeeeetty sure the Blizzard CE doesn't have a speed boost, only a maneuverability boost like the Blizzard Cmdr ver.




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Offline Droid803

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I will fully admit that the latter missions of Chapter 2-A is too difficult (2-B seems to be decent)

I've been working with addressing these issues already for a 1.1 patch (which will also include things like implementing the new replacement models accounting for anything that may have been broken).

It's in the works :)
(´・ω・`)
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Okay, having just started getting into this mod today (finally installed a nightly and DL'd the files), I am extremely impressed so far, but I have to agree with the OP--the difficulty is ridiculous.

It wouldn't be so bad if it was close to the same FS mechanics that we're all used to (and that retail FS/FS2 introduces to us slowly and steadily), but with a very different set of flight dynamics, gunplay, maneuvering, and spatial awareness, it's utter hell. Even on Trainee difficulty--which apparently only gives you a bit more armor and doesn't change the AI or mission events at all--I pretty much have to play with cheats on in order to simply enjoy the game without it being an extremely strenuous challenge. My first playthrough is as much about the story as it is about learning the general mechanics and dynamics of the setting/gameplay, and I facepalmed when a relatively early mission in the game involved me facing six better-equipped Blizzard fighters in perfect surround, ambush position, by myself, with a loadout geared towards light anti-ship duty as per the mission brief. To put it another way, BP2's 'My Brother, My Enemy' ace dogfight mission is intense and challenging, but it isn't jarringly difficult even from the first glance.

A few times I've been utterly annihilated by flak barrages in a later stage of a given level, and even when full afterburning away from the warship, I can't escape the flak at all and I'm obliterated in seconds. It wouldn't be quite so bad if I was actually given access to some of the anti-ship weapons in more than a couple of the missions where I'm expected to engage capships directly.

Also: holy ****, is that a Covenant ASSAULT CARRIER?! *Jaw hits floor* There wouldn't happen to be a Halcyon-class cruiser anywhere in the game, by chance? (Regardless, it was so awesome to see a 3D model of a Covenant capship in FSO, in-game.)
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Offline Droid803

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What I find strange is that Flak is unchanged from FreeSpace 2 in terms of damage, your ship has comparable health, and they are present in comparable amounts (somewhere around Deimos-level).
I've been going through and routinely lowering the difficulty, as I've mentioned above, as well as implementing a few more helping bits for lower difficulties. Though I haven't touched the flak, but maybe I should?

There's also one or two missions which are slightly broken due to codeside changes, I'm aware of those...
Argh, really need to get my act together and finish this megapatch.

EDIT:
Also, this " a bit more armor" is...5x as much HP as on insane.
You look at that on paper and that's a pretty ridiculous durability increase. :P
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 03:48:02 pm by Droid803 »
(´・ω・`)
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Offline Dragon

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Notice, you fixed the AI without editing the flak. FS2 flak was very strongly nerfed by poor AI accuracy and artificially slowed ROF. IIRC, DE doesn't do those things, which is what is rendering the flak guns extremely deadly.

 

Offline Droid803

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DE doesn't do those things as much as any mod with "Fury AI" doesn't do those things...
Still doesn't quit explain it (except maybe people are familiar with the flak screens and safe zones of FS2 ships that they got to know before the flak was as deadly).
(´・ω・`)
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Offline General Battuta

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Well we 'fixed' it by swapping all the standard flaks for heavy :shrug:

 

Offline Droid803

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LOL. Okay. Guess I could tune them down a bit then XD.
(´・ω・`)
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Also: having 5x health isn't much of a help when it just means it takes 10 seconds of sustained fire to kill you instead of two...when you're already being juggled to near-helplessness after the first second or two anyway. And you're outnumbered 10 to one in every mission, often by either dedicated (and effective) swarm craft and/or similarly (or more) powerful fighters than your own.

Also: there's actually a checkpoint system? I heard about it before starting to play, but I never found a single instance of it. The few occasions in which I was prompted to press '1' to skip an intro cutscene resulted in absolutely nothing. I was never prompted to select a checkpoint, or that I had any kind of checkpoint available (or that I had reached a checkpoint).


Oh, and one other important note: just because a tutorial tells you which button to press to glide doesn't mean you've actually learned anything about *how* to effectively utilize it, or when. Trial and error is far from effective for learning this, as it can be quite difficult to tell what works, why, and how much so. Same with lateral thrust, vastly different intertia, autoaim/convergence, etc. The last one in particular confuses the heck out of me--I can have my gunsight perfectly on target for over a minute straight, firing full-auto with proton guns, and not hit my target a single time. Even when randomly aiming at various points around the gunsight, the result is usually the same. What gives?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 07:09:57 pm by SaltyWaffles »
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Offline Droid803

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This is *probably* creator bias kicking in, but I found that I could pretty much just sit there on trainee for some time and not die. Again, I'm lowering hostile forces counts on lower difficulties, to account for the fact that there is a much wider range of how well people use the new stuff like backburning/sidethrust/glide than I initially expected (I thought I was pretty bad, in comparison to my testers, actually - maybe they were just *really good at it*).

Some missions have checkpoints, others do not. Depends on the mission and if I felt it was necessary. Most missions are actually fairly short and continuous so there's no good place to put it. If there is one, it'll prompt you via training message when you've reached the checkpoint (CHECKPOINT REACHED), and the next time you start the mission it will prompt you again via training message to press a button to load checkpoint. Mostly checkpoints are to skip periods of expository downtime rather than saving combat progress.

Urr...no clue why skipping cutscene is not working. Check key bindings?

Yes, I know that one doesn't simply know how to use all the new tools immediately, but I think I've made at least the first chapter's missions fairly light, but challenging enough to prompt you to try out new things. Sounds like you're already most of the way through chapter 2 if you've reached the 6v1 ambush mission (which is not "fairly early", that's already past the mid point of the campaign already, actually). That said, chapter 2 was built after chapter 3 so if anything things get a bit easier. I've gone through and reduced the difficulty for chapter 2 (in some places drastically). This was due to a testing oversight and I apologize.

Iunno about autoaim - I've noticed it too, its...probably a quirk with how FSO handles autoaim - sometimes it's just...off like that. Might be because nobody's used it until now. I still think it's preferable to having no autoaim/converge though, that just makes it even harder (in more ways than one - makes the AI more accurate too, actually...) I think how effective it is depends on the angle - it's not very good when trailing/chasing.
(´・ω・`)
=============================================================

 
This is *probably* creator bias kicking in, but I found that I could pretty much just sit there on trainee for some time and not die. Again, I'm lowering hostile forces counts on lower difficulties, to account for the fact that there is a much wider range of how well people use the new stuff like backburning/sidethrust/glide than I initially expected (I thought I was pretty bad, in comparison to my testers, actually - maybe they were just *really good at it*).

Some missions have checkpoints, others do not. Depends on the mission and if I felt it was necessary. Most missions are actually fairly short and continuous so there's no good place to put it. If there is one, it'll prompt you via training message when you've reached the checkpoint (CHECKPOINT REACHED), and the next time you start the mission it will prompt you again via training message to press a button to load checkpoint. Mostly checkpoints are to skip periods of expository downtime rather than saving combat progress.

Urr...no clue why skipping cutscene is not working. Check key bindings?

Yes, I know that one doesn't simply know how to use all the new tools immediately, but I think I've made at least the first chapter's missions fairly light, but challenging enough to prompt you to try out new things. Sounds like you're already most of the way through chapter 2 if you've reached the 6v1 ambush mission (which is not "fairly early", that's already past the mid point of the campaign already, actually). That said, chapter 2 was built after chapter 3 so if anything things get a bit easier. I've gone through and reduced the difficulty for chapter 2 (in some places drastically). This was due to a testing oversight and I apologize.

Iunno about autoaim - I've noticed it too, its...probably a quirk with how FSO handles autoaim - sometimes it's just...off like that. Might be because nobody's used it until now. I still think it's preferable to having no autoaim/converge though, that just makes it even harder (in more ways than one - makes the AI more accurate too, actually...) I think how effective it is depends on the angle - it's not very good when trailing/chasing.

About the autoaim--yeah, that's my impression as well. I'd much, much rather have it than not, but in some situations it seems utterly incapable of hitting the target. Come to think of it, though, Diaspora feels like an exception to that--I have no idea what it does differently, but it might be worth a look to see if there is some kind of simple (or not) solution to the problem.

About trying the new mechanics--it's not about trying them, it's about learning them. Trial and error is grossly inefficient as a learning process when you aren't sure what is actually working or not, why, and how much so. It's like the difference between trying to learn golf entirely on your own through trial and error and having someone teach you--aside from the very talented, the former method is far longer and more difficult of a way to get better.

To put it another way: the tutorial tells you which buttons to press to use lateral thrust. It doesn't tell or teach you how to USE that effectively, and how different usages of it will result in X, Y, or Z effects, and why it does/why it matters. It doesn't tell me when and when not to use reverse AB in combat, and why. It doesn't tell me tips for dealing with a dozen swarm fighters surrounding me and breaking free of the juggling effect that even one of them can initiate.

Further, though, some of the weapons are really inadequately explained, introduced, or clear as to what they actually are/do. That three-stage anti-squadron missile is still a total enigma to me, both in terms of its specific intended usage and how it really works. I have no idea what the actual range and effective usage of the Diamondback is, because it has no rangefinder and no mention of its range/behavior anywhere in the game. It doesn't tell me *how* effective it is as an anti-shipping weapon, either. The shield mechanic for the Phoenix makes no sense to me at all, even after reading everything I could find on it (in-game), so I never bothered using that fighter. When it came time to attack the Amaterasu, I did the whole trench-run thing, until I spent five minutes trying to find where the hell I was supposed to go to get to the hangar from 'inside' the ship. I eventually just flew around, trying to find the outside entrances to the hangar, made possible after a few minutes of searching and god mode, of course. Some target-able waypoints would really help here.

----

As an aside: "The Exarchy has been the galaxy's guardians for longer than your species has looked to the stars." --Said as they're systematically glassing population centers of a species in an unprovoked attack, threatening and promising xenocide of a species that doesn't even know what they did wrong (and were never told, even when they asked), and lets its war-driven peons invade other species with impunity while declaring xenocide if those species so much as take a step in Exarchy territory.

Erm, is every free-thinker in the Exarchy THAT much of an extreme hypocritical moron?

Delenda Est delenda est.

(Yay gratuitous Latin.)