[Tolwyn]

MVE would be great, if it would support 24 bit images, as xvid does.

As you said earlier, some users experience problems with xvid playback. On the other hand MVE produces nasty artefacts and I can't even convert our movies to the mve format for no apparent reason. So I have no idea what to do next

[fizz]

MVE would be great, if it would support 24 bit images, as xvid does.

While extending the format in that direction is not impossible, I don't think it would improve the situation much. The real limitation in MVE is not the maximum of 16-bit, it's the maximum of 64k per frame (including audio). You won't be able to leverage the advantages of 24-bit.

On the other hand MVE produces nasty artefacts and I can't even convert our movies to the mve format for no apparent reason. So I have no idea what to do next

What are you using to convert your movies? avi2mve or my gstreamer plugin? If it's my plugin I'd like to know what's going wrong so I can fix it. If it's not, please give it a try. I'm willing to help if you need some. I am very much interested in making it work, even if some of the artifacts probably can't be helped.

[Tolwyn]

well, I am using avi2mve (+gui). I would love to try our plugin, but I am not much of a pinguin lover

[fizz]

You don't have to be (would help, certainly, but whatever). A bit of googling turned up the Ixion media player (http://gstreamer.xeris.cz/ixion/ixion.html) which apparently includes GStreamer binaries. Now you just have to find someone who can compile the MVE plugin for you...

[WMCoolmon]

Isn't it possible to upgrade the format, if the encoding/decoding code is publically (if a bit illegitimately) available?

[fizz]

Sure, but if you lift the size constraints, the "MVE" movies are going to get even bigger. If you're going to change the format anyway, you're better off using a different codec like Theora or something.

[taylor]

If you're going to change the format anyway, you're better off using a different codec like Theora or something.

Don't suppose you'd like to do up a Theora player for us? 

Since we are already using libogg and libvorbis, it would be logical to just add libtheora for video as the alternative to MVE.  No license issues, no patent issues, not a ton of new libs to rely on, and a good quality codec.  If I had the time this is deffinitely something that I would work on myself.

[Fury]

If you're going to change the format anyway, you're better off using a different codec like Theora or something.

If I got it right, apparently Theora would have compatible license but there is no media player with a compatible license.

[taylor]

If I got it right, apparently Theora would have compatible license but there is no media player with a compatible license.

We just write a player to integrate directly in the game, like the MVE player does.  There is probably an example player in the libtheora source so it could be used as a base.

I think that every video player for Linux already supports Theora.  VLC supports it under Linux, Windows and OS X.  And there are DirectShow filters for Theora as well.  None of that really matters though, it's stupid to rely on a media player for movie playback in a game anyway, there are just too many things that can mess up with that arrangement.

[karajorma]

I assume Fury meant for if you want to play the movies without running the game. If there are filters for DS then it's not really a problem

[Fury]

I did mean an integrated movie player, as taylor(?) did mention somewhere there is no license compatible media player.

[fizz]

Don't suppose you'd like to do up a Theora player for us? 

Probably not anytime soon, I'm afraid.

[gevatter Lars]

I hadn't time or the possibility to test the Theora format but from what I read it sounds a lot better then MVE.
Do you know of a simple encoder..maybe even a plugin/possibility to make it work together with VirtualDub or other programs?

[Shade]

Wikipedia's Theora page lists several options for encoding.

[Tolwyn]

I hadn't time or the possibility to test the Theora format but from what I read it sounds a lot better then MVE.
Do you know of a simple encoder..maybe even a plugin/possibility to make it work together with VirtualDub or other programs?

I posted yesterday a link in our internal  to the command line tool to encode theora movies. It is the only available win32 encoder. And anyway, I do not believe that Theora will be implemented any time soon

[taylor]

I posted yesterday a link in our internal  to the command line tool to encode theora movies. It is the only available win32 encoder.

With ffdshow installed you can use VirtualDub to encode Theora movies.

And I don't know when Theora support will hit game code, but with the newest rash of people complaining about the AVI movies having trouble, I'm encouraged to start coding on it just so we can finally drop AVI support.  The main problem is that we would be dropping support for all AVI movies that currently exist and going with a single movie format (excluding MVE from that statement).  Making sure that we can do that in a way that doesn't totally piss everyone off is part of the change.  How much time and effort goes into getting Theora support in the game depends on support from the mods since they are the ones that will have to deal with the transition from AVI.  If everyone agrees that it (Theora) is the best choice, and the change needs to happen as soon as possible, then there won't be the risk that working on the decoder would be a waste of time and effort.

[Tolwyn]

If everyone agrees that it (Theora) is the best choice, and the change needs to happen as soon as possible, then there won't be the risk that working on the decoder would be a waste of time and effort.

Well, Saga suffers from the buggy avi support. Movies fail to play on multiple systems (even if the correct codec is installed). Of course, MVE might be a temporary solution. Then again, converting to mve is not that easy. avi2mve files do not work in FS2. So, is there any good to try and convert our avis to mve or wait for the theora support?

[Goober5000]

How much time and effort goes into getting Theora support in the game depends on support from the mods since they are the ones that will have to deal with the transition from AVI.

The only mods that use AVI movies that are actually released are Lightning Marshall and Transcend, AFAIK.  Everything else is still in development.  For LM and Transcend, we'd have to get in touch with the original developers, but for the rest, it's quite likely they still have the raw movies around.  If we were to say, in a sticky thread or something, "Here are the options for encoding movies, and here are the codecs to use", then the changeover should be doable without much difficulty IMHO.

[Tolwyn]

Well then...

[Backslash]

And for those who have the right Directshow filters installed (...both of you  ), I just committed a very small change that lets the game recognize .ogg files as movies.  So now Theora files are viewable.  Granted it still is using Directshow to actually SHOW the Theora files, but eh.   At least this way we can start messing with encoding settings outside the game and actually see results in the game for starters...

My most recent CVS build
ffdshow
ogg directshow filters (if still necessary)