Author Topic: Props to Passionate Community + Shameless Stream Plugging  (Read 16523 times)

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Offline redmagejoe

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Re: Props to Passionate Community + Shameless Stream Plugging
I really wish there was some consolidated place to find changelogs for the mods. I click on the Forum button in Knossos, but those often lead to long-dead threads and fsnebula doesn't seem to have anything like this. Is there some sort of place one could go to see something like an HLP-maintained patch history of the different mods?

Also, about to go to sleep. See you guys in the morning for Memories of the Great War stream! :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIovmB_tRgA
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Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Props to Passionate Community + Shameless Stream Plugging
Thank you for featuring my campaigns.

And, if I am allowed to, let me just thank you for your frustration with the third mission of Hellgate: Ikeya. The misery of players during that mission keeps me young. /joke

I am glad that these campaigns are still at least somewhat enjoyable after all these years. The "ambush design" is a youthful sin of mine and I hope I have unleared it somewhat for future content.

As for the proofread, I will pull the text in the next weeks and hand it off to be checked once more - that has indeed been long overdue.

As for the briefings, I wish there was an option to disable the grid entirely for the briefing TBH. But once the briefing texts are revised I promise to take another look at the boards as well.

I will look into further tweaks to HGI mission 3 - probably a further decrease of bomb damage to the wreckage, and/or extending the download radius.
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline redmagejoe

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Re: Props to Passionate Community + Shameless Stream Plugging
Thank you for making such intense missions! Honestly, I can forgive the tiny flaws here and there because it's still a very polished product and I genuinely felt challenged. Most of my frustration with missions comes from personal trial and error, needing to determine what the best course of action is to do well, not because the mission design itself is lacking. Never take my first or second attempt reactions to a mission at face value. :P

In that third mission, at least, I think it may simply be that the bomb damage is a bit too high, if only just barely. Knowing that I almost completed the mission at 87 and 95% both times, I'm less inclined to complain. Just knowing that it's a % would be helpful. I'm actually enjoying it enough to go back and at least try to get all the bonus objectives, so definitely don't think that it isn't an awesome campaign! I love some of the design choices you made and the expectations you have for the player against overwhelming odds, still making victory attainable. A good challenge gets me stoked.

As stated, if you need someone to nitpick grammar, briefing oversights, or things like that, I'm more than happy to help. Being who I am and having just finished 4 weeks of Silent Threat Single Missions *shudder* I'm more than qualified to spot those things and offer feedback and corrections. I'm definitely looking forward to playing through again, and would love to get my hands on Episodes 1 and 4 when they come out. I only hope that I did your campaign justice by showcasing it on the channel. :D
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Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Props to Passionate Community + Shameless Stream Plugging
After watching the whole stream I need you to see this:



And the link to the source for the "public comments" in the HGI epilogue:
https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=95026.msg1872258#msg1872258
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Props to Passionate Community + Shameless Stream Plugging
I really wish there was some consolidated place to find changelogs for the mods. I click on the Forum button in Knossos, but those often lead to long-dead threads and fsnebula doesn't seem to have anything like this. Is there some sort of place one could go to see something like an HLP-maintained patch history of the different mods?

The short answer is no.  The long answer is that almost nobody maintains changelogs of that sort.  FSPort has a changelog in its readme, FSO posts a forum thread with changes for every release, and Scroll (sometimes) posts changes when it releases an update, but those are the only examples I know of.

I missed this week and last week but I'll definitely be there next week.  Looking forward to it. :yes:

Incidentally, you should be able to fit both Deneb III and Shivans into a single stream.  Deneb III is three missions (although the last one is a humdinger), Phantoms is five, and Echo Gate is four.  Trimurti is a fairly long campaign, and quite different from the usual fare, so it would be good to start that campaign at the beginning of a stream.

 

Offline redmagejoe

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Re: Props to Passionate Community + Shameless Stream Plugging
Damn, it looks like Deneb III has the same issues with my radar icons and/or message box mods as Transcend; namely, the bottom radar's ellipse doesn't draw, and Auto Target / Auto Speed don't draw properly. I'll relist the issues and screens in this post to avoid having to dig back.

The Procyon Insurgency: https://fsnebula.org/log/6114955ecb8e3a769a95ce62
The Aftermath Reboot: https://fsnebula.org/log/61149e10b15aef1dcc95ce5b
The Aftermath Reboot II: https://fsnebula.org/log/61149e5f9831a2e18495ce5d

Transcend is playable, but... This may have to do with my Radar Icons mod, so maybe someone could let me know how I can make these two play nice.
https://i.imgur.com/a88YNnO.jpeg
https://fsnebula.org/log/61149669cb8e3a769a95ce63

Also it seems that Inferno: Nostos is attempting to draw a new interface, but my old interface is still drawn, so...
https://i.imgur.com/SvpY0Zd.png
https://fsnebula.org/log/611589f29831a2e18495ce5e
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Re: Props to Passionate Community + Shameless Stream Plugging
To verify: do all of the affected mods run on the same MediaVPs version?
How do you kill a hydra?

You starve it to death.

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Props to Passionate Community + Shameless Stream Plugging
Both Transcend and Deneb III use the 3.7.2 version of the MVPs, so there could be a mod conflict specific to that version.

Updating Deneb III to MVPs 4.4.x is on my to-do list, but I'm waiting for a certain asset to be completed first.

 

Offline redmagejoe

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Re: Props to Passionate Community + Shameless Stream Plugging
Yeah, same with Inferno: Nostos. I don't know enough about the backend to even begin guessing at what the issue is, but it definitely seems related to 3.7.2 MVPs.

Upon further investigation, it looks like Aftermath Reboot I & II are also on 3.7.2, so that may be at least somewhat related to my inability to launch them. Don't know if my mods would cause the game to refuse to launch outright, but spit-balling here.
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Re: Props to Passionate Community + Shameless Stream Plugging
Hm, so as I suspected, I'll just have to just create one table based on MVPs 3.7.2 instead of 4.4.2.

Geez, that's a "lot of versions"-old. Did anyone try running Deneb III, or other mods from the list, with manually forced recent MVPS?
How do you kill a hydra?

You starve it to death.

 
Re: Props to Passionate Community + Shameless Stream Plugging
Link to a zip with a 3.7.2 MVPS compatible setup of the msgbox script. The HUD looks a tad ugly and is scaled differently than in recent MVPS, but that's what I could cobble up.
How do you kill a hydra?

You starve it to death.

  

Offline redmagejoe

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Re: Props to Passionate Community + Shameless Stream Plugging
With Mito's assistance, we managed to resolve any issues with the HUD and my mods by simply forcing Transcend to 4.4.2 from 3.7.2, so it's workable now. Having said that, he pointed out Deneb III would be more complicated than simply changing a json, so I guess I should ask Goober5000 what he thinks a timeline on moving Deneb III to 4.4.2 might look like. If that asset completion makes it not feasible before Sunday, I'll try giving this quick and dirty 3.7.2 fix Mito worked on a shot.

EDIT: And unfortunately despite Mito's best efforts, the 3.7.2 compatible messagebox mod has the same HUD issues on Deneb III. Oof. Might just have to stream with things looking a little unpolished on Sunday, unfortunately.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 04:16:37 pm by redmagejoe »
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Offline Colt

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Re: Props to Passionate Community + Shameless Stream Plugging
Caught up on the stream.  :yes:

Hidden Text: Show
0:12:43 - Pre-Stream Banter
=====Hellgate: Ikeya=====
0:16:31 - Mission #1: To Dance Among Shadows
0:41:09 - Mission #2: Tortured Souls
0:58:50 - Mission #3: Whisperings of the Damned
1:28:50 - Mission #4: The Hellgate
2:02:36 - Epilogue
=====Light of Antares=====
2:12:55 - Mission #1: A Line in the Sand
2:40:22 - Mission #2: Trickery at Luxor Station
2:56:19 - Mission #3: Pas d'armes
3:39:06 - Mission #4: En Garde!
3:56:45 - Mission #5: Bildersturm
4:18:16 - Epilogue
4:22:03 - Post-Stream Banter

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Props to Passionate Community + Shameless Stream Plugging
With Mito's assistance, we managed to resolve any issues with the HUD and my mods by simply forcing Transcend to 4.4.2 from 3.7.2, so it's workable now. Having said that, he pointed out Deneb III would be more complicated than simply changing a json, so I guess I should ask Goober5000 what he thinks a timeline on moving Deneb III to 4.4.2 might look like. If that asset completion makes it not feasible before Sunday, I'll try giving this quick and dirty 3.7.2 fix Mito worked on a shot.

EDIT: And unfortunately despite Mito's best efforts, the 3.7.2 compatible messagebox mod has the same HUD issues on Deneb III. Oof. Might just have to stream with things looking a little unpolished on Sunday, unfortunately.

As I said, I'm waiting for an asset to be completed; but even if it were available today, I'd be reluctant to give the mod a major overhaul just a few days before a stream.  Remember your experience with last-minute reconfiguration? :p

Additionally I personally really dislike the moved message location and I prefer it where it usually is.  So I'd be in favor of you just playing the campaign the way it was designed to look.  That being said, the campaign is voice-acted, so pausing to read messages is not as critical.

 

Offline redmagejoe

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Re: Props to Passionate Community + Shameless Stream Plugging
The voice acting being a thing sells me on just working without the message box, at the very least.

Despite seemingly only removing message box files, I cannot get the game not to crash upon Commit when I have only radar icons left. I looked through the files for any instance of the error being thrown but cannot decipher what the problem is. I don't want to also have to remove the radar icons mod, but if I can't figure this out, I may have to just play with the slightly buggy HUD. I'll try running in Fast Debug and post a log, and maybe someone can point out what I removed that I shouldn't have.

EDIT: Well okay, nothing crashes, but it does throw a critical error before having the EXACT SAME HUD ISSUES as if I had the message box mod installed. Maybe this is also related to radar icons and not just the message box? I don't know any more, honestly.

https://fsnebula.org/log/611c9ab79831a2e18495ce60

EDIT2: I may have discovered the issue. Deneb III uses BOTH MVPs 3.7.2 AND FSPort MVPs 3.7.2, and the message box mods for those two don't play nicely together. Both were loading, so removing the data folder from FSPort MVPs 3.7.2 seemed to fix everything and, assuming that the UI for Deneb III is supposed to be smaller, it seems to work fine. I'll post a screen, and then also figure out if there's any other mods that uses 3.7.2 of either or both versions to see if I can just skip having the data folder in one or the other. Or, better yet, if I could get a Deneb III specific data folder that, if my understanding of file priority is correct, will prevent the message box mod and display the UI using Goober's intended settings.

https://i.imgur.com/1ufUGLS.jpeg

It seems Bem Cavalgar also uses both FSPort MVPs and Upgrade MVPs 3.7.2. If I had to remove one or the other, it would probably be the mods for the FSPort 3.7.2 package, since I haven't found any of my installed mods that use only that one so far, and removing only that one allows those which use both to load without weird UI problems.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2021, 01:05:57 am by redmagejoe »
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Offline Goober5000

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Re: Props to Passionate Community + Shameless Stream Plugging
I'm surprised the message box mods don't play well together, because every FSPort MVPs inherits from the regular MVPs.  This is the standard way to do things because FSPort MVPs is an augmentation of the MVPs, not a replacement.  FSPort uses the FS1-style HUD, so it does need its own hud configuration file, but any modder who adds one should make sure it plays well with the MVP one.

That crash in the log file you posted is because the radar icons mod depends on at least one file - parsecfg-sct.tbm - that apparently isn't included in the radar icons mod but is included in the message box mod.  Whoever maintains the radar icons mod should add it, plus other missing files if needed.

Though if I had my preference, the radar icons mod would be disabled too.  You have the actual ship model to look at; why would you want the 2D icon on top of it?

 

Offline redmagejoe

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Re: Props to Passionate Community + Shameless Stream Plugging
Aesthetically, I agree with your sentiments. As someone who has terrible situational awareness, however, the small HUD elements I already found left me frantically looking for the information I needed since my eye wasn't immediately drawn to it in lieu of all the wide open space, and at least where fighters are concerned and cruisers in the far distance, it is really easy for things to go off of my mental radar in the heat of the moment.

I'm certainly not suggesting this should be the standard, it's just that I, as a player, have found that I'm not nearly as sharp and omni-vigilant as I was when I played these games as a kid. The message box and radar icon mods are essentially crutches that I unfortunately find myself relying on. It's sad to admit that I'm getting old. :(

EDIT: I've just been informed the tiny HUD is a 3.7.2 thing, not a Goober thing. Mito and I worked out a solution to the "bug" (which was just trying to display tiny HUD elements on the normal sized HUD) by ripping the HUD anis from the latest FSPort MVP and putting them in 3.7.2's data folder so everything draws normal size. Everything is working now, including the mods.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2021, 03:10:13 pm by redmagejoe »
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Re: Props to Passionate Community + Shameless Stream Plugging
1. It seems like both scripts require the aforementioned parsecfg-sct.tbm and dkjson.lua files. That I forgot to ship with the previous iterations of the msgbox because I thought they're required only for the radar icon script.

2. The message box script doesn't move the head ani by itself. In order to do that, I used a mv_root-hdg.tbm ripped straight out of the most recent MediaVPs, only with the position of the head ani changed. There are two issues: one, using the same config for fsport-mediavps breaks the center reticle, hence separate configs, two:  3.7.2 MediaVPs seem to be using a much simpler HUD config than more recent ones, and it looks like they can't recognise some of the settings or HUD gauges used in these. Hence... yet another config, I guess.

3. I had no idea Deneb III has voice acting! That's great!

4. Radar icons script has a bunch of features just to adress such criticisms, Goober. The icons fade when targets get close enough, and when the targets are close enough to the center of the reticle. Both values are configurable.


I might have forgotten something, whatever.

I would have given it a bunch more time if I could but if I do have the time to watch the stream this Sunday, it's going to be literally most of my free time available across this whole week.
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Offline EatThePath

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Re: Props to Passionate Community + Shameless Stream Plugging
4. Radar icons script has a bunch of features just to adress such criticisms, Goober. The icons fade when targets get close enough, and when the targets are close enough to the center of the reticle. Both values are configurable.

And it's getting a decent set of new ones at my request to better address similar ones  ;)
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Offline redmagejoe

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Re: Props to Passionate Community + Shameless Stream Plugging
I'm looking forward to playing Goober5000 and Blaise Russel's campaigns on stream tomorrow! :D
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