Author Topic: BP Tactical Discussion (formerly Warship Inflation)  (Read 98205 times)

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Offline Buckshee Rounds

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Re: BP Tactical Discussion (formerly Warship Inflation)
How does the data overload an 'isolated' network? It's like being hacked by a hacker when your PC doesn't have any internet/network cables jacked in. I suppose the GTVA could just use a telescope or optical means to aim instead, but as it stands I think everyone's using radar which can be jammed, and missing beam shots.

In STR the Hades tries to aim it's beams manually against a little bitty Faustus. It doesn't succeed of course but it suggests it's at least possible. Not sure how canon it is either, no pun intended. :)

Hmm, I see...if a shielded Lucifer was impossible to destroy, I thought they'd learnt and try shielding their own capships and putting lotsa reactors on them...guess not, hah.

Fuel.  :P

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP Tactical Discussion (formerly Warship Inflation)
What a strange thing to say. It's as if we'd never any designed any missions with these ships, and thus we have to make bald assertions about how they perform, instead of informed statements based on our experience with them.

You also are personally invested in being correct on this, and have possibly designed the missions and the specs in such a way that they don't logically progress from existing frames of reference. It's quite possible that intentionally or unintentionally you've provided them plot armor, from where we're sitting.

Abso-****ing-lutely. All that matters in the end is telling a good story which is fun to play. Anything and everything will be modified to meet that goal.

I will give you a spoiler:

Spoiler:
almost every ship in BP has some form of plot armor to make it perform better in its fluff role, from guardianed subsystems to changing armor types to custom HP; you could probably construct some kind of technobabbly justification for it, but why bother?

Our view is that a ship's effectiveness in the setting needs to be reflected by the gameplay. It's not Harpoon where the stats of the ship on paper are exact matches to the fluff. The stats, in combination with per-mission modification, exist to support the fluff. If the fluff asks for light cruisers which are meant to fill the gap left by the abandonment of the cruiser design while being deployed more intelligently - and absolutely, there is a space for those roles to be tried out - those cruisers will be made to work in that role.

Even if you want to argue that it's somehow inherently a failed concept from the get-go, well, it's quite possible there are people in the setting saying the same thing. Sometimes dumb ideas happen; Murphy's Law rules all systems, even design bureaus and fleet doctrine. Nothing should be flawless.

I've been wondering, the massive turrets on the Hecate reminds me of the battleship guns we have. Is it a possibility to have those turrets fire some kind of anti-ship projectile that does several thousand damage per projectile (higher than TerPulse, lower than beams) and fires at a intermediate rate with a bit of range behind it, instead of those little flak? Would be pretty cool...but then again, the Hecate's still going to be forced to carrier role, even if it had those anti-ship guns.

Pulse cannons already do more DPS than most light beams.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 12:17:50 pm by General Battuta »

 

Offline Axem

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Re: BP Tactical Discussion (formerly Warship Inflation)
FYI: The BP Cretheus has 20,000 HP. When I first made the Cretheus, I was looking at other ships to figure out what stats to give it. A Fenris has 10,000, so the Cretheus should have something smaller, right? Thus, 8000!

But stats change for a gameplay sense and since no one looks at a Fenris anymore, so it got rebalanced compared the Aeolus (38,000 HP).

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP Tactical Discussion (formerly Warship Inflation)
Technology marches on. IIRC the Carthage had more effective HP than the Colossus - BP ships in general have enormously more HP than they did in retail.

 

Offline Buckshee Rounds

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Re: BP Tactical Discussion (formerly Warship Inflation)
Do you mean it has more HP for it's hull size compared to the Colossus?

Carthage = 200,000
Colossus = 1,000,000

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP Tactical Discussion (formerly Warship Inflation)
Do you mean it has more HP for it's hull size compared to the Colossus?

Carthage = 200,000
Colossus = 1,000,000

Nope. The Carthage has Armor 20. 5*200,000 = 1,000,000, so actually the same.

 

Offline Buckshee Rounds

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Re: BP Tactical Discussion (formerly Warship Inflation)
Damn.

In other words 4 Karunas are a Colossus-killing force. After all that discussion about it tearing through Buntu lines as well.

 

Offline Destiny

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Re: BP Tactical Discussion (formerly Warship Inflation)
Nah, four Karunas won't be able to do anything to the Colossus. I'd explain why, but we're over it and I'm...happy we are.

How does the data overload an 'isolated' network? It's like being hacked by a hacker when your PC doesn't have any internet/network cables jacked in. I suppose the GTVA could just use a telescope or optical means to aim instead, but as it stands I think everyone's using radar which can be jammed, and missing beam shots.

In STR the Hades tries to aim it's beams manually against a little bitty Faustus. It doesn't succeed of course but it suggests it's at least possible. Not sure how canon it is either, no pun intended. :)

Hmm, I see...if a shielded Lucifer was impossible to destroy, I thought they'd learnt and try shielding their own capships and putting lotsa reactors on them...guess not, hah.

Fuel.  :P
Hahaha, the Hades...

On the topic of fuel...now that the GTVA's lost Capella and the mysterious nebula beyond Gamma Draconis, the lack of Argon gas is going to make stuff like the Prometheus S become R again...although the Balor solves that problem. Maybe if the GTVA goes to raid some ancient GTA scrapyard, they'll find the REAL Prometheus cannon...ha.

 

Offline Commander Zane

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Re: BP Tactical Discussion (formerly Warship Inflation)
The first Prometheus is pants compared to the Nu-Prometheus. :P

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP Tactical Discussion (formerly Warship Inflation)
Damn.

In other words 4 Karunas are a Colossus-killing force. After all that discussion about it tearing through Buntu lines as well.

You can bet your ass that if the Colossus turned up in BP its stats would be adjusted as well, though.

 

Offline Commander Zane

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Re: BP Tactical Discussion (formerly Warship Inflation)
Oh hai Sathanas, remember me?

 

Offline Qent

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Re: BP Tactical Discussion (formerly Warship Inflation)
There was an awesome BFBlue or something in Helios. :P

Now I'm curious about another old discussion though: when the Imperieuse jumps in, the Karunas can either go for its beams or throw everything at the Carthage. Many tests were run to see which was the better plan, and it turned out to be going for the beams, which needed an armor boost to ensure the Imperieuse's survival. But was this already with the Carthage's armor boost?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 05:14:11 pm by Qent »

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP Tactical Discussion (formerly Warship Inflation)
Yep. Those tests were run pretty late in mission development.

The odds of taking out the Carthage before the Imperieuse and Hydra (iirc) nailed all the frigates were basically zero.

 

Offline Destiny

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Re: BP Tactical Discussion (formerly Warship Inflation)
Oh hai Sathanas, remember me?
If you blew up the Carthage in the penultimate mission...



Well, didn't the Imperieuse jump in between the Wargods and the Carthage? Both plans would lead to hell.


...right, got ninja'd.

 

Offline Mars

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Re: BP Tactical Discussion (formerly Warship Inflation)
Oh hai Sathanas, remember me?
If you blew up the Carthage in the penultimate mission...

Well, didn't the Imperieuse jump in between the Wargods and the Carthage? Both plans would lead to hell.


...right, got ninja'd.

The Imp actually jumps in a good 5,000 meters behind the Carthage, but the Wargods broke off fire at that point.

 

Offline The E

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Re: BP Tactical Discussion (formerly Warship Inflation)
When the Imp jumps in, the Carthage rotates "downward", i.e. heading toward Saturns' rings, while the Imp makes a beeline toward the Frigates.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP Tactical Discussion (formerly Warship Inflation)
A good move, too, as it forces the Wargods to either pursue the Carthage (turning their main guns off the Imperieuse) or face the Imperieuse (leaving the Carthage to run) and makes it hard for the frigates to use the Carthage as a physical shield.

 

Offline Buckshee Rounds

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Re: BP Tactical Discussion (formerly Warship Inflation)
How come the Hood and Meridian aren't uparmoured? Oh and what are those weird orange boxes in FRED?

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP Tactical Discussion (formerly Warship Inflation)
I think they do get some armor. Orange boxes are debris/asteroid fields.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP Tactical Discussion (formerly Warship Inflation)
Yep, Meridian has armor, and all her beam emitters and engines are armored up as well.

In a remarkable fit of consistency the Hood even gets the same armor.