[EatThePath]

It depends on the job.

There are jobs where the interaction with the public is pivotal (and by that I mean face-to-face interaction, not dealing with people using a phone or computer), and the topics which can be discussed by coworkers right in front of other people are in fact regulated by the company they work for. If you've ever been on a commercial flight for example, and I assume you have at least once in your lifetime, you may have noticed the crew discussing random stuff right in front of you and other passengers. That stuff is regulated by the airline and those who don't stick to the rules may be reported by other crewmembers.

Also, if I really have to be clear on the matter, when it comes to work I'd rather not join off-topic discussions started by my colleagues. I have friends for that, and in different environments. Some of my coworkers are fascists, others deny Covid-19 is a thing, and many others address topics which are far too ridiculous from my perspective to be worth debating (women spend hours talking about lipsticks and shoes, literally). And I don't think the environment is miserable at all.


Therefore, back on topic, I strongly believe it's 100% fine to have a "gray list" of topics we'd rather not discuss on HLP due to their potential of degenerating into flame wars.

Is HLP not a place where friendships can be made? To connect with someone beyond simple matters of a shared game, must you first reach out to negotiate other preferred channels of communication? Maybe that's not what you intended to say, but that's my main take away reading it. I don't think enforcing professional distancing is a way to promote bringing modders together, and I stand by the belief that banning political topics means banning large numbers of potential members from discussing important aspects of their lives and could contribute to alienating those members.

[Colonol Dekker]

But we've got to be impartial to be fair right?

I'd rather you be compassionate.

They're not mutually exclusive buddy. 

[Grizzly]

This is fair, but if you had to choose between the two at some point...

[Mobius]

Is HLP not a place where friendships can be made? To connect with someone beyond simple matters of a shared game, must you first reach out to negotiate other preferred channels of communication? Maybe that's not what you intended to say, but that's my main take away reading it. I don't think enforcing professional distancing is a way to promote bringing modders together, and I stand by the belief that banning political topics means banning large numbers of potential members from discussing important aspects of their lives and could contribute to alienating those members.

It's a place where friendships can be made, of course, but it's also a place where people can get to offend each other for strong disagreements on subjects which are not related to the main topic of the board. The point is, do we need political discussions in order to drive friendships on HLP? Can't friendship be encouraged by pure FreeSpace discussions, or other unrelated topics which don't involve politics (and therefore pose a much lower risk of degeneration)?

[Colonol Dekker]

This is fair, but if you had to choose between the two at some point...

I'd moderate based on behaviour and not the side of the subject fence.

[mjn.mixael]

It's mind boggling that people want to limit what other people can talk about. I have learned a lot about the world, society, and myself from PolDisc. If you don't want to read it, go turn it off. Then end. How hard is that?

Frikken thought police up in here...

[Mobius]

Well this is not the best moment in HLP's history where one can possibly claim that such setting works.

Take a look at the recent chaos we've experienced. Did it happen because people were debating over the damage per second inflicted by a BGreen? I don't think so.

[Sandwich]

Tolerance of intolerance? Someone should.

*points to decades-old signature* (you'll need to expand it)

[mjn.mixael]

Well this is not the best moment in HLP's history where one can possibly claim that such setting works.

Take a look at the recent chaos we've experienced. Did it happen because people were debating over the damage per second inflicted by a BGreen? I don't think so.

The whole thing that happened was over moderation of the content, not the content itself. The guy in power couldn't control himself and needed to "win" the argument and abused his authority to silence and delete everything that offended him. Doesn't matter what the argument was. That was the behavior that caused everything.

If all this did happen over an argument about a BGreen would you be fighting to have all discussion of beams be banned?

[EatThePath]

Take a look at the recent chaos we've experienced. Did it happen because people were debating over the damage per second inflicted by a BGreen? I don't think so.

Should we also ban mods that include politically charged aspects to their story, or just ban any discussion of how those aspects are handled?

[Grizzly]

Tolerance of intolerance? Someone should.

*points to decades-old signature* (you'll need to expand it)

Hey that's not the Karl Popper quote!

[Mongoose]

Is HLP not a place where friendships can be made? To connect with someone beyond simple matters of a shared game, must you first reach out to negotiate other preferred channels of communication? Maybe that's not what you intended to say, but that's my main take away reading it. I don't think enforcing professional distancing is a way to promote bringing modders together, and I stand by the belief that banning political topics means banning large numbers of potential members from discussing important aspects of their lives and could contribute to alienating those members.

Exactly.  My question earlier wasn't about employees who were actively "on-duty," but about co-workers shooting the **** on lunch break or at a Friday happy hour.  That's exactly what the off-topic sections are for here.   Mobius, I'm sorry you seem to have a bad situation with your co-workers, but that is definitely not the case for everyone, and some of us do enjoy chatting about all sorts of random topics in work downtime.

[BlackDove]

Tolerance of intolerance? Someone should.

*points to decades-old signature* (you'll need to expand it)

Actually I did a few days ago, right around the time I asked you about tolerating an anti-Semitic Stormer LARPING as a normal human being. It seemed incongruent to me you would be tolerant of that kind of intolerance, masquerading as a legitimate position.

That said, if I ask you where homosexuals end up after they die, I wonder if your answer would be tolerant, and what one ought to do to conform to your signature in that case.

[Mobius]

Take a look at the recent chaos we've experienced. Did it happen because people were debating over the damage per second inflicted by a BGreen? I don't think so.

Should we also ban mods that include politically charged aspects to their story, or just ban any discussion of how those aspects are handled?

Mods are additions to a game and, as such, portray a different view on reality. You can do very uncomfortable stuff in a mod, such as killing refugees, and so far in over two decades of FreeSpace modding we haven't come out with truly controversial stuff that sparked major debates, AFAIK. Even if we did it though, it'd still be in the "soft context" of a game.

A political discussion addresses stuff that truly affects us, and it's a real subject that may lead to overreactions in many individuals. Comments on modding are not on the same scale as comments on political and social views: "offend" me over my favorite FreeSpace campaigns, and I'd be mostly fine with it; do the same with respect to my ideologies or political views, and I may overreact. Here's the difference between the different climate in different boards.

[mjn.mixael]

As has been said many, many times already. PolDisc was not the problem. It's where the problem occurred. Are you gonna acknowledge that ever, or just keep ignoring it?

[Mobius]

PolDisc was the fertile soil where the root of the problem could grow up to the size it had at the very end.

This has to be acknowledged too, perhaps, or people will pretend it may have occurred literally anywhere on the forums.

[Rhymes]

PolDisc was the fertile soil where the root of the problem could grow up to the size it had at the very end.

This has to be acknowledged too, perhaps, or people will pretend it may have occurred literally anywhere on the forums.

Seeing as it was not the first time that said ex-admin abused his powers to try to win an argument, and that previous abuses of power did happen in on-topic subforums, YES, Mobius, it could have occurred literally anywhere on the forum.

[mjn.mixael]

It absolutely could have occurred literally anywhere on the forums...

But whatever. This is pointless. Without a shred of irony, you are needlessly prolonging the very drama you are trying to avoid. Why won't you just go turn off PolDisc in your account settings and then go mod something? Why do you gotta be runnin' in here to remove an area of discussion that others very much like?

It's mind boggling that people want to limit what other people can talk about. I have learned a lot about the world, society, and myself from PolDisc. If you don't want to read it, go turn it off. Then end. How hard is that?

Frikken thought police up in here...

[Mobius]

Nope, it definitely wouldn't have happened the same way it did in PolDisc.

If you're referring to the mere act involving the lock and deletion of a thread, this can in fact happen literally anywhere, even on internal boards; however, most of the peculiar traits of the "accident" were rather specific to the PolDisc scenario and its remarkable potential at getting people angry.

[mjn.mixael]

You're wrong. Factually, objectively, wrong.