Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => FreeSpace Conversion => Silent Threat: Reborn => Topic started by: Snail on September 26, 2008, 01:20:59 pm
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Remember Bosch is part of the Lost Generation as per his monologue, and he's old enough to have served in the Great War I believe
He said he lived his youth fighting the rebels of the Great War (the GTI), leading to speculation that he was the Alpha 1 of Silent Threat...
...Will this point be expanded or explored?
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Ok, I'm going to deliberately commit suicide whenever I'm playing Silent Threat.
I'm playing as Bosch? :ick:
However, just because he was fighting against the GTI could just mean he's just another wingmate of the real Alpha 1 . . . Gamma 4 perhaps.
The FS1 and FS2 Alpha 1's are hardly mentioned again, (well for FS2 could be in FS3, not like its going to happen anyway) so the ST Alpha might just join the trend.
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There was never any definitive evidence that Bosch was the actual Silent Threat Alpha 1, but it seems pretty clear that he was intended to be one of the pilots who served in that campaign.
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He said he lived his youth fighting the rebels of the Great War (the GTI), leading to speculation that he was the Alpha 1 of Silent Threat...
However, just because he was fighting against the GTI could just mean he's just another wingmate of the real Alpha 1 . . . Gamma 4 perhaps.
The thing is, when playing through the campaign, it's entirely possible for all of your wingmen to be killed except you.
I leave you to draw your own conclusions.
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Are we seriously supposed to believe that every single mission the GTA launched against the GTI was flown in by the player?
That's ridiculous. There must have been some missions with fighters or bombers going on in the meantime.
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Aardwolf has a point there. If the GTI were smart enough to mole the GTA, then they must also be smart enough to create diversions and stuff.
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Well yes, but I was thinking about it from the other side... that the GTA would launch offensives elsewhere if it could.
But yeah, GTI forces could've gone on attacks too :)
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Well, isn't it more fun to think of yourself as the future leader of a great rebellion? :lol:
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no not rly
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I'm hoping that Bosch in fact makes an appearance in ST:R, though not as the player and not necessarily present throughout the entire campaign.
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Perhaps making a cameo or some type of statement hinting on Neo-Terra. O.o
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No, that would be too hackneyed. Fighter pilots don't really introduce themselves in FS, and without identifying himself it would take too much yammering to get across that he was indeed Bosch.
(Though the Lt. Ash exception comes to mind)
Question: is it ever stated that Bosch was a pilot and not somebody stationed on a warship?
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Question: is it ever stated that Bosch was a pilot and not somebody stationed on a warship?
No, but Bosch being a blob turret gunner does just not sound cool.
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So does this bring us back to the question if Alpha 1 is Bosch in the regular Silent Threat campaign? (Possibility yes?)
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I'm hoping that Bosch in fact makes an appearance in ST:R, though not as the player and not necessarily present throughout the entire campaign.
Yeah, just a small appperance, like Commander Snipes in FS2.
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I'm content to just wait to play it :yes:
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Question: is it ever stated that Bosch was a pilot and not somebody stationed on a warship?
"As a young pilot, I battled against the rebels of the Great War, the Galactic Terran Intelligence..."
So, yeah. Though this doesn't exclude him being stationed on a warship, especially as he became an admiral later on.
I added an Easter egg on this subject in Ross 128. :D
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Technically piloting a support ship can count as 'battling' ... :p
But yea. It doesn't exclude him from captaining a warship ... he could even have captained the Orff.
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If he was the Captain of the Orff, that would totally rock.
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Didn't the Orff go boom in ST?
/me can't remember that far back. as he hasn't played it since before the great fall.
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Didn't the Orff go boom in ST?
/me can't remember that far back. as he hasn't played it since before the great fall.
IIRC it did. Died under a swarm of Lokis :P
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It either does or doesn't depending on how that mission plays out. I think I managed to keep it nice and healthy last time I played through the Port. There isn't really any acknowledgment of its destruction if it does go up, so I feel like it's ideally supposed to survive. Plus, I don't really want the thing to die. :p
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The only ship smaller than a destroyer that the player has a chance to get attached to.
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I always had a thing for the PVC Mecross in FS1. You have to haul its ass out of the fire in Exodus, then it delivers a helping hand in return in Last Hope.
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I liked the Orff, yeah.
However, if you count the time between ST and FS2, isn't Bosch a bit too...young to be given command of a warship? In FS2, he looks like he's only about forty to fifty.
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However, if you count the time between ST and FS2, isn't Bosch a bit too...young to be given command of a warship? In FS2, he looks like he's only about forty to fifty.
You underestimate the future of the age-defying cosmetics industry.
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You underestimate the future of the age-defying cosmetics industry.
:eek:
I didn't underestimate; I just forgot. :D
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The only ship smaller than a destroyer that the player has a chance to get attached to.
:lol:
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Eh, here's my thoughts.
Bosch as Alpha 1 = Interesting
Bosch as anyone else = BORING
Why would the ST take such an awesome story point and throw it out the window? There's so much potential in that, so much so that the only thing that would make them not do that story is if it was too intimidating and they wussed out.
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Eh, here's my thoughts.
Bosch as Alpha 1 = Interesting
Bosch as anyone else = BORING
Why would the ST take such an awesome story point and throw it out the window? There's so much potential in that, so much so that the only thing that would make them not do that story is if it was too intimidating and they wussed out.
I disagree completely. Alpha 1 should always remain anon. Just like Freespace 1 and Freespace 2.
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Eh, here's my thoughts.
Bosch as Alpha 1 = Interesting
Bosch as anyone else = BORING
Why would the ST take such an awesome story point and throw it out the window? There's so much potential in that, so much so that the only thing that would make them not do that story is if it was too intimidating and they wussed out.
Because they might not have even had the story for FS2 planned out yet when they made ST, and because ST:R isn't going to completely change the style of the campaign by making the player someone who matters?
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I disagree completely. Alpha 1 should always remain anon. Just like Freespace 1 and Freespace 2.
I'm not saying they should have "Ensign Bosch, welcome" in the briefings. Just that, you can create the story, and the missions with the idea that the anonymous Alpha 1 is in fact bosch
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I disagree completely. Alpha 1 should always remain anon. Just like Freespace 1 and Freespace 2.
I'm not saying they should have "Ensign Bosch, welcome" in the briefings. Just that, you can create the story, and the missions with the idea that the anonymous Alpha 1 is in fact bosch
Then what's the point if you wouldn't be able to tell? They could easily create the same exact game with the idea that Alpha 1 is Ensign Petrarch.
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It leaves the possibility open, neither confirming nor denying. The player can choose to believe he is Bosch, or not, as he pleases.
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I disagree completely. Alpha 1 should always remain anon. Just like Freespace 1 and Freespace 2.
I'm not saying they should have "Ensign Bosch, welcome" in the briefings. Just that, you can create the story, and the missions with the idea that the anonymous Alpha 1 is in fact bosch
Then what's the point if you wouldn't be able to tell? They could easily create the same exact game with the idea that Alpha 1 is Ensign Petrarch.
What's the point? Because it's fun.
One of the books I have, how to write science fiction, the author in there says something to the effect of "anyone can write a sex scene, sex scenes are easy. Writing a love scene though, that takes skill."
It's easy to give something raw to the audience. To tell them flat out what the story is, who the characters are and so forth. But in something like a love scene, the emotion is much harder to communicate. How the characters express something so strong without saying "I love you, I love you" lalala. Express it through action, their adoration of one another, so forth.
Similarly, the authors of ST:R can take the story, and start to think . . how do the events of the GTI rebellion influence Bosch? Assuming that Bosch is alpha 1. How do his motivations change, where does the alliance with the Shivans come from? If you take the premise, that Alpha 1 is Bosch, you can tailor every mission to not only tell the story of the GTI rebellion, but to tell the story of Bosch's transformation from young fighter pilot to life long idealist. And hell, if the story's REALLY good, the player might end up believing in Bosch's ideals themselves. To tell the player something, without ever actually telling them that something.
And why? What's the point? Because it's hard andchallenging, and because it's fun. There are one dimensional characters, and there are one dimensional stories. Some people want to create both characters, and stories with multiple dimensions. And for the people that don't care about depth of story, they can play through from start to finsih and feel content. But the people who want to read deeper into things, they can appreciate the subtleties and see the true vision beneath surface. Or at least, what they think is the true vision, the true story. And of course, people will have different opinions, which in turn stimulates both interest and debate. I mean, how much debate has raged throughout the years about the end of FS2? About Bosch's effect on the story. It happens again and again, and each time a new perspective is introduced.
So yeah, it's worth it.
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I disagree completely. Alpha 1 should always remain anon. Just like Freespace 1 and Freespace 2.
I'm not saying they should have "Ensign Bosch, welcome" in the briefings. Just that, you can create the story, and the missions with the idea that the anonymous Alpha 1 is in fact bosch
Then what's the point if you wouldn't be able to tell? They could easily create the same exact game with the idea that Alpha 1 is Ensign Petrarch.
What's the point? Because it's fun.
One of the books I have, how to write science fiction, the author in there says something to the effect of "anyone can write a sex scene, sex scenes are easy. Writing a love scene though, that takes skill."
It's easy to give something raw to the audience. To tell them flat out what the story is, who the characters are and so forth. But in something like a love scene, the emotion is much harder to communicate. How the characters express something so strong without saying "I love you, I love you" lalala. Express it through action, their adoration of one another, so forth.
Similarly, the authors of ST:R can take the story, and start to think . . how do the events of the GTI rebellion influence Bosch? Assuming that Bosch is alpha 1. How do his motivations change, where does the alliance with the Shivans come from? If you take the premise, that Alpha 1 is Bosch, you can tailor every mission to not only tell the story of the GTI rebellion, but to tell the story of Bosch's transformation from young fighter pilot to life long idealist. And hell, if the story's REALLY good, the player might end up believing in Bosch's ideals themselves. To tell the player something, without ever actually telling them that something.
And why? What's the point? Because it's hard andchallenging, and because it's fun. There are one dimensional characters, and there are one dimensional stories. Some people want to create both characters, and stories with multiple dimensions. And for the people that don't care about depth of story, they can play through from start to finsih and feel content. But the people who want to read deeper into things, they can appreciate the subtleties and see the true vision beneath surface. Or at least, what they think is the true vision, the true story. And of course, people will have different opinions, which in turn stimulates both interest and debate. I mean, how much debate has raged throughout the years about the end of FS2? About Bosch's effect on the story. It happens again and again, and each time a new perspective is introduced.
So yeah, it's worth it.
Then why on Earth do you have to do anything special to the game? What's preventing the ST:R team from just making the game and you imagining Alpha 1 being Bosch? :rolleyes:
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Then why on Earth do you have to do anything special to the game? What's preventing the ST:R team from just making the game and you imagining Alpha 1 being Bosch? :rolleyes:
ST:R team is free to do what they want. If they want to do something special it's up to them.
I can play Freespace 2 and pretend I'm really a drunken kangaroo in a pink speedo, but the story won't support it so my delusion will erode pretty quickly.
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Then why on Earth do you have to do anything special to the game? What's preventing the ST:R team from just making the game and you imagining Alpha 1 being Bosch? :rolleyes:
ST:R team is free to do what they want. If they want to do something special it's up to them.
I can play Freespace 2 and pretend I'm really a drunken kangaroo in a pink speedo, but the story won't support it so my delusion will erode pretty quickly.
What? First you said that you want to play as Bosch and that ST:R would stink if you couldn't, then you said that they shouldn't make it all that obvious that you're Bosch, and then lastly you said that you want to play as Bosch because it makes the story better.
Hypothetically, let's say that the ST:R dev team made ST:R without any thoughts given specifically to Bosch. What's preventing you from pretending that you're Bosch? But I could just as easily pretend that I'm not Bosch. In essence, we're both happy, and practically speaking the main character is whoever you want it to be.
Now let's say (hypothetically) that they make it obvious that you're Bosch. They just lost one of the feelings that made Freespace what it is (Note how I never said that you can't still enjoy it). But at least one person will still be a little disappointed.
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What? First you said that you want to play as Bosch and that ST:R would stink if you couldn't, then you said that they shouldn't make it all that obvious that you're Bosch, and then lastly you said that you want to play as Bosch because it makes the story better.
Eh, all I ever said is that the idea of Bosch, as Alpha 1 in ST, is a glorious opportunity to enrich a story that ST:R would be silly to ignore.
You don't seem to get it.
It's not about pretending to be Bosch or not pretending. It's about shaping the story such that Bosch could be the anonymous Alpha 1. For example, Bosch thinks the Vasudans are a waste of time. Why? Did something happen in the past? Bosch is essentially just the Hammer of Light, but rather than aid the Shivans in an alliance they never agreed to he wants to form an alliance and bring humanity on equal terms. But why just humanity? Why not humanity and the Vasudans?
Or what prompts him to think an alliance with the Shivans is a good idea in the first place? Just eTak? Only the research? There can be more to it than that.
Here' a very simple comparison.
Let's say we have Game A - where some NTF ship Captain with a name hates the Vasudans
Then we go back to some Great War era. And say we play a campaign where that Captain with a name is unnamed Alpha 1. Then maybe we have a mission where, Vasudan allies fail to protect some civilians against the Shivans. Alpha 1 is there, but has other responsibilities. Let's say we have another mission where Hammer of Light forces destroy the player's ship. Or let's say we have another mission where vasudan reinforcements never arrive and leave Alpha 1 against hopeless odds. And maybe, Alpha 1's wingmen spout a LOT of Vasudan rhetoric. Maybe his wing leaders in particular spout a lot.
So someone could play that campaign and figure, "wow, this Alpha 1 could be that captain!"
Whereas what you're saying is that, a person should go into a Great War era campaign and say "I'm NTF Captain Bollox as the anonymous Alpha 1!" and then you play the campaign and mission after mission there are helpful vasudans, and command your wingmen speak highly of them . . then at some point you think "Well, CAptain bollox hates vasudans, but, if I'm him, then . why would I? I love my Vasudan allies. They saved my ass a few times". See, it doesn't really work.
That's the difference.
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Oh jesus god, of course I don't get it.
Your first post said that the ST:R devs would be wusses if they didn't make "Bosch as Alpha 1" (to quote you exactly), then you said that no one would actually tell you that Alpha 1 is Bosch, but that you would still be playing as Bosch.
And then you said that they should do it because "it's hard andchallenging and because it's fun", even though the first part doesn't apply to you because you're not a dev, and the rest of the post just described how it would make the Devs be better Devs and it would make Bosch seem like a cooler character (ignoring the fact that there are better ways of doing it).
Then in your next post, you proceed to describe Bosch as someone who hates Vasudans (while Monologue #2 strongly suggests that he doesn't actually hate the Vasudans), you mocked both the Dev's skill and my intelligence while simultaneously contradicting your previous paragraph and making an incomplete analogy.
And because I just can't understand what you're saying all that well, I suggest we get back onto a less-combustible topic.
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Oh jesus god, of course I don't get it.
Your first post said that the ST:R devs would be wusses if they didn't make "Bosch as Alpha 1" (to quote you exactly), then you said that no one would actually tell you that Alpha 1 is Bosch, but that you would still be playing as Bosch.
Hey, give yourself a prize! Way to misquote me buddy:
1st post: "Bosch as Alpha 1 = Interesting"
2nd post: "I'm not saying they should have "Ensign Bosch, welcome" in the briefings. Just that, you can create the story, and the missions with the idea that the anonymous Alpha 1 is in fact bosch"
You misunderstood my first post, so I clarified. But you take that clarification, as a new answer. Then I continue to clarify, what I mean, all the time you still don't get it. So really, who cares if you don't get it. Because I get it. And I'm someone else does too.
And then you said that they should do it because "it's hard andchallenging and because it's fun", even though the first part doesn't apply to you because you're not a dev, and the rest of the post just described how it would make the Devs be better Devs and it would make Bosch seem like a cooler character (ignoring the fact that there are better ways of doing it).
Oh right, I'm not a Dev, that's why I released a 10 mission campaign by myself. Because I'm not a Dev.
Then in your next post, you proceed to describe Bosch as someone who hates Vasudans (while Monologue #2 strongly suggests that he doesn't actually hate the Vasudans), you mocked both the Dev's skill and my intelligence while simultaneously contradicting your previous paragraph and making an incomplete analogy.
Um, read my post again? Did I say Bosch? No, I said "some NTF ship Captain" (I even gave him a differnet naem, Captain Bollox!). As in, someone who is a captain (NOT AN ADMIRAL) in the NTF, other than Bosch. If I meant to say Bosch, I would have said Bosch. It's an analogy. And it's not incomplete. Here's a hypoethical character in the NTF movement who is in the NTF because he hates teh Vasudans (like all of other Bosch's lackeys). Then we have two hypothetical campaigns, one in which the anonymous Alpha 1 is given a reason to hate vasudans and one in which Alpha 1 is given no reason to hate vasudans. Play the first one, and you can be that NTF captain. Because there are signs and events in the campaign to potentially shape Alpha 1's ideas. Play the second one, and you can pretend you're that NTF captain, but no matter how hard you try, you'll be deluding yourself because the campaign has no events to make support your theory.
And if that's not clear enough, then I don't give a damn.
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Or here's an even more clear cut explanation:
Why do "Devs" or campaign makers, add Easter Eggs to their campaign? Aren't they a complete and utter waste of time?
An anonymous Alpha 1, intended to represent Bosch, would basically be ONE BIG EASTER EGG.
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By implying that ST:R would be boring if Alpha 1 wasn't Bosch you're implying that ST:R will suck if it isn't exactly what you want it to be.
It's their campaign.
I think it would be extremely intriguing if Bosch was the captain of the Orff, or some other cameo that made some semblance of sense. I don't think it should be limited to just the player as a possible Bosch.
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By implying that ST:R would be boring if Alpha 1 wasn't Bosch you're implying that ST:R will suck if it isn't exactly what you want it to be.
It's their campaign.
I didn't say "boring campaign" I said "boring", as in the choice. Making Alpha 1 yet another anonymous guy with no real links to anything is a safe, boring choice imo. Doesn't mean the campaign will be boring, just that the "safe and easy" choice is boring. It doesn't push the boundaries.
Take for example the new Hades. Now, a lot of models are thankfully being converted HTL, and a lot of new HTL-quality models are being produced. This is great, everyone loves them, etcetera. But take the new Hades, VA or whoever built the thing could have sat down and said "I'm going to make the Hades HTL, it'll be 8-10K polygons as is the norm for the SCP". And if he had done that, it probably would've been a great model, people would have loved it, but it's still a little boring because though it's great, it's also safe choice. Instead, VA decided something to the effect of "I'm going to go freaking crazy on this thing, to really give this ship the treatment it deserves, and make it 80k polies!" and then wow, look at the model. It may not run on a lot of people's comps, but it's pushing the boundaries. It's not a safe boring choice, because it's one that is obviously a lot more work, and also has the potential to receive criticism by those with lower end machines (or people who just think that 80k is crazy)
I've got no problems ripping into a campaign, but I never pass judgement on them until I've played the damn things.
And as a matter of fact, I didn't say that if Alpha 1 wasn't Bosch it would be boring. I said if Bosch was in the campaign, but not Alpha 1 it would be boring. Since people were suggesting he be the captain of a ship, etcetera, which btw is completely non-canon since Bosch was a pilot not a ship captain or helmsmen. Well wait, I take that back to a degree. If Bosch was represented as a Snipes type character, then maybe it would be wicked cool because Snipes is one of the best-loved characters of FS2. And is one of the few ways to get real humanity out of the pilots, which is otherwise not present. That actually might be cooler than having Alpha 1 as Bosch. I mean, both choices are cool, but the former (Snipes-style) needs a REALLY GOOD (amateur) voice actor to be Bosch or everyone's going to be rather unimpressed.
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Bosch never said he was a pilot.
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Bosch never said he was a pilot.
Unless the Wiki transcripts have been tampered with, he did.
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Bosch never said he was a pilot.
At 0:38
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4BsSuphCHk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4BsSuphCHk)
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Oh, lol... maybe he did
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Here's something for you....
How long was the NTF rebellion going for, because he also says at the start of that vid - "vindicate everything i've been fighting for the past thirty years"
I don't remember the NTF going for that long. So . . . . . . What was he fighting and who?
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Well, ive always thought that bosch was FS Alpha-1. It made sense to me because i first played FS1 and ST after playing FS2. It still makes sense to me.
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Maybe Bosch was one of Alpha 1's wingmen in ST...
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Maybe Bosch was one of Alpha 1's wingmen in ST...
You mean one of those who died every time in every possible scenario? Could be.
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How long was the NTF rebellion going for, because he also says at the start of that vid - "vindicate everything i've been fighting for the past thirty years"
I don't remember the NTF going for that long. So . . . . . . What was he fighting and who?
Specifically stated as 18 months.
Probably fighting against the GTVI in like a secret political conspiracy type thing, where he was trying to uncover the facts while the CIA GTVI were trying to stop him.
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@Dekker...
So, Bosch is a cross between Mulder and Cigarette-Smoking Man? Hmm...that makes him an even better character
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Maybe Bosch was one of Alpha 1's wingmen in ST...
You mean one of those who died every time in every possible scenario? Could be.
It would certainly explain why he's so hard to kill in FS2...He's like a Cylon from the New Battlestar Galactica...He dies and downloads into a new body.
:eek: Bosch is the final member of the "Final Five" Human-Cylon Models :nervous:
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Maybe Bosch was one of Alpha 1's wingmen in ST...
You mean one of those who died every time in every possible scenario? Could be.
Speaking of the game, yes. Speaking of the Universe, no....they're meant to survive, or each squadron should be disbanded after one or two sorties.
Specifically stated as 18 months.
Probably fighting against the GTVI in like a secret political conspiracy type thing, where he was trying to uncover the facts while the CIA GTVI were trying to stop him.
Admirals have their importance in the GTVA. There are some who share the Assembly or Security Council's opinions and there are some who don't. Bosch had his own opinions and used the influence earned in about third decades to start a rebellion.
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Here's something for you....
How long was the NTF rebellion going for, because he also says at the start of that vid - "vindicate everything i've been fighting for the past thirty years"
I don't remember the NTF going for that long. So . . . . . . What was he fighting and who?
Not every battle is fought with a gun.
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That was what I was trying to say, but I failed.
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The Arts of Diplomacy and Bureaucracy are forms warfare in their own right
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Yeah. "fought against" could also mean "tried to accomplish" as well.
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Oh jesus god, of course I don't get it.
Your first post said that the ST:R devs would be wusses if they didn't make "Bosch as Alpha 1" (to quote you exactly), then you said that no one would actually tell you that Alpha 1 is Bosch, but that you would still be playing as Bosch.
Hey, give yourself a prize! Way to misquote me buddy:
1st post: "Bosch as Alpha 1 = Interesting"
2nd post: "I'm not saying they should have "Ensign Bosch, welcome" in the briefings. Just that, you can create the story, and the missions with the idea that the anonymous Alpha 1 is in fact bosch"
You misunderstood my first post, so I clarified. But you take that clarification, as a new answer. Then I continue to clarify, what I mean, all the time you still don't get it. So really, who cares if you don't get it. Because I get it. And I'm someone else does too.
And then you said that they should do it because "it's hard andchallenging and because it's fun", even though the first part doesn't apply to you because you're not a dev, and the rest of the post just described how it would make the Devs be better Devs and it would make Bosch seem like a cooler character (ignoring the fact that there are better ways of doing it).
Oh right, I'm not a Dev, that's why I released a 10 mission campaign by myself. Because I'm not a Dev.
Then in your next post, you proceed to describe Bosch as someone who hates Vasudans (while Monologue #2 strongly suggests that he doesn't actually hate the Vasudans), you mocked both the Dev's skill and my intelligence while simultaneously contradicting your previous paragraph and making an incomplete analogy.
Um, read my post again? Did I say Bosch? No, I said "some NTF ship Captain" (I even gave him a differnet naem, Captain Bollox!). As in, someone who is a captain (NOT AN ADMIRAL) in the NTF, other than Bosch. If I meant to say Bosch, I would have said Bosch. It's an analogy. And it's not incomplete. Here's a hypoethical character in the NTF movement who is in the NTF because he hates teh Vasudans (like all of other Bosch's lackeys). Then we have two hypothetical campaigns, one in which the anonymous Alpha 1 is given a reason to hate vasudans and one in which Alpha 1 is given no reason to hate vasudans. Play the first one, and you can be that NTF captain. Because there are signs and events in the campaign to potentially shape Alpha 1's ideas. Play the second one, and you can pretend you're that NTF captain, but no matter how hard you try, you'll be deluding yourself because the campaign has no events to make support your theory.
And if that's not clear enough, then I don't give a damn.
Congratulations. You've succeded in blaming your lack of clarity on me. I hope you're happy, because you've just won this argument on the basis that you can't effectively communicate.
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Why can't we all just be friends?
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Agreed. Let's be friends in another thread.