[Taristin]

Voting closed, I win.

Delete that piece of **** from anything related to a FreeSpace Wiki please

...I change my vote. Non-canon should be allowed in the wiki...

TopAce: GP.

I rescind my vote completely. >..>

[BlackDove]

DELETE

[WeatherOp]

Ok, why not just water mark it then. Canon stuff will have CANON all up and down the page behind the information, and NOT CANON the same way.

[karajorma]

Cause the issue is not a matter of whether the information in the wiki is canon or not. Canon info is canon and therefore irrelevant to this discussion. Everything else to do with the universe needs to be presented as simply being one of of a very large number of possible views on the matter.

[WMCoolmon]

Already done. We've got a non-canon warning on the page. The entire point of canon is that it is the one "correct" interpretation of the storyline. All other interpretations are therefore non-canon and their accuracy is completely up in the air, unless they are granted canon status by a canon document.

[karajorma]

Remember this phrase in the Lupus Nebula entry

Barring the discovery of a better candidate, this is the best choice for the FS2 nebula.

There's a big non-canon warning on top of the page. Think we should still leave it in?

[Wanderer]

I recently added that non-canon tag as i considered it to be atleast partially non-canon. So blame/thank me for that.. i believe Shivan Nebula page is better page from canon point of view than the Lupus Nebula

[StratComm]

Remember this phrase in the Lupus Nebula entry

Barring the discovery of a better candidate, this is the best choice for the FS2 nebula.

There's a big non-canon warning on top of the page. Think we should still leave it in?

Fixed.  That line was stupid anyway.

[karajorma]

Kinda torpedos my argument but my point was that the line I quoted explicitly states exactly what having a non-canon theories page with only one or two theories on it implies. That this particular theory is the best candidate the community has come up with.

I recently added that non-canon tag as i considered it to be atleast partially non-canon. So blame/thank me for that.. i believe Shivan Nebula page is better page from canon point of view than the Lupus Nebula

Actually it's just as bad. It points to the Lupus Nebula article but fails to present any opposing point of view. It might as well have said the same thing.

[BlackDove]

So is the manifesto deleted yet?

[knn]

No, and since the result is 15-15, it shouldn't be. As long as there is no direct link to it, it can stay, until a final solution is found.

[ionia23]

2 cents. 

Okay, $2.78.

It's dissapointing to see how hot people got about this.  Fact, schmact.  Remember, the source code was handed over to us freely.  We can make this universe whatever we want it to be. 

Voilition is never going to tell us what happened at Capella, where blah-blah nebula is, whether or not Mr. Bosch isn't some Shivan commander's ***** now, or what this whole deal is about.  It's up to the rest of us to make educated projections to fill in the blanks and continue the story.  The non-canon stuff has totally dwarfed the canon stuff.  What CAN be done is the 'if enough people agree' thing can be used to incorporate some small non-canon material, plus inject some of the goodies proposed in the more elaborate of the user-made campaigns.

I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with bringing these theories and ideas in, so long as they can be referenced as "non-canon".  I can't see how anyone could whine about that, considering we're dealing with a game going on over six years old.  Look at how much has been accomplished by fans alone!

We already know that any theories about the 'firecracker' issues (Bosh, Capella, Shivans) are going to be summarily dismisssed by the community.  We simply weren't given enough information to 'know'.  But that still leaves a lot of room for other things (why Ross 128 got hit first, where the 'Homesick' survivors are, the whole of the Terran-Vasudan War, the dawn of space travel, etc).

I'm suggesting that the non-canon stuff included be based on existing and future user-made campaigns.  I think it would encourage our mission developers to be cohesive in their development (i.e., not making campaign arcs that are blatantly contradictory of one another).  It would give a road map showing where the 'blanks' are in the FS universe.

I respect both sides of the issue on this.  I can't help but get excited by the concept of a gaming universe with no limits, written by the people who play it.

Derelict, Fall of Episoln Pegausi, Inferno, Homesick, Sol: A History, Blackwater Operations (once it comes out), and I'm sure the Terran-Vasudan War Project are or will be easily as good as the retail campaigns and really enrich the story.

carry on....

[knn]

But unless it's made by , nothing will ever be accepted by the entire community. We just can't say that this is why the Shivans blew up Capella period. Some people will think it is plausible, and may make a fun campaign, maybe some people who don't believe the theory will play it if it's good, but not everyone will except it.
This is why FS3 made by the community is impossible, although some people would like that to happen. Call it n00bishness, but I would. And if I ever make that campaign I would like to, it's going to end the story my way. The closest we get to that are campaigns such as Inferno, BWO etc. (There has been a debate about this when the source code was released, but that was before I came here)
Also, the source code <> the universe. We were not given the right to decide what will happen after Capella, nor the right to say what the Shivans are or why they do what they do. probably knows that already, but they're not telling. I think there still is a small hope for FS3, if space sims get popular again, THQ might want to have one, and in that case, they'll have an option to continue a reasonably well-known series with a mostly completed story.

[ionia23]

Hmm, maybe I missed something in my last post.

Let's take Derelict, for example.  Derelict, while taking place after the events in FS2-Retail, does not try to explain what happened at Capella.  Rather, it deals with what WOULD be known.  A whole lot of people needing a new place to live.

The big campaign developers out there have done a terrific job of leaving the Great Mysteries of the FS universe (Shivan origins and motives, Bosch, Capella, etc) as what they are: Mysteries.  But there are so many other places where there's more than enough room to fill in the storyline.  Particularly in Sol: A History.  A great theory on what happened back in Sol during the space between FS1 and FS2.  Brilliant.  Lots of side-stories that can be filled in, or actually presented (the attack at Ross128, etc).  I guess I'd like to see these campaigns get recognized in a timeline or reference.  Sort of a way of saying to players who are feeling pretty spiffy about beating FS2-Retail "By the way, that's not all."

I've never heard anyone say "Man, I just played Homesick.  Blaise Russell is off his rocker, there's no WAY that could happen."

I think that including THAT kind of non-canon stuff is a good idea.  Do you see what I mean?

[knn]

I see and agree with you, but I was responding to the first part of your post

[ionia23]

Yeah, the Volition thing.  You're right on that.

[karajorma]

I think that including THAT kind of non-canon stuff is a good idea.  Do you see what I mean?

No one ever said that it wasn't. The debate was over non-canon that existed with no links to anything else.

[aldo_14]

Hmm, maybe I missed something in my last post.

Let's take Derelict, for example.  Derelict, while taking place after the events in FS2-Retail, does not try to explain what happened at Capella.  Rather, it deals with what WOULD be known.  A whole lot of people needing a new place to live.

The big campaign developers out there have done a terrific job of leaving the Great Mysteries of the FS universe (Shivan origins and motives, Bosch, Capella, etc) as what they are: Mysteries.  But there are so many other places where there's more than enough room to fill in the storyline.  Particularly in Sol: A History.  A great theory on what happened back in Sol during the space between FS1 and FS2.  Brilliant.  Lots of side-stories that can be filled in, or actually presented (the attack at Ross128, etc).  I guess I'd like to see these campaigns get recognized in a timeline or reference.  Sort of a way of saying to players who are feeling pretty spiffy about beating FS2-Retail "By the way, that's not all."

I've never heard anyone say "Man, I just played Homesick.  Blaise Russell is off his rocker, there's no WAY that could happen."

I think that including THAT kind of non-canon stuff is a good idea.  Do you see what I mean?

We do and will; it's called the 'campaigns' section.  This was discussed a few pages back; gist is, the context of campaigns as seperate, diverging universes with their own canonical realm means it's justifiable to include them.  The issue was the likes of the SM - being the best example - because (IMO) they're essentially fanfic. Check back into the depths of the thread.

[ionia23]

Wouldn't it figure that I would miss that, dammitall.  My apologies, and thank you for the correction.