Author Topic: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?  (Read 4325 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MP-Ryan

  • Makes General Discussion Make Sense.
  • Global Moderator
  • 210
  • Keyboard > Pen > Sword
    • Twitter
Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Yeah, I played some more after my post last night and the network connectivity improved quite a bit.  Biggest issue is still stability; I completed a bunch of freeplay challenges, then got crashed out of freeplay mid-battle and then the game locked up at 95% loading back to Fort Tarsis.

If it wasn't for the network problems, I think it would be a lot of fun to just tinker with, but the instability right now is what's killing the experience for me.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline MP-Ryan

  • Makes General Discussion Make Sense.
  • Global Moderator
  • 210
  • Keyboard > Pen > Sword
    • Twitter
Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Okay, today is MUCH better network and play wise.  Here's my thoughts so far.

-Pretty.
-Combat is responsive and quite fun.  MEA-like in some respects as The E said.
-Flight and swimming sensitivity controls on PC are a hot mess.  I still can't get them to a comfortable level.  What's responsive on the X axis is hypersensitive on the Y, and its far too easy to end up flying straight up or down and simply crash to get out of it.  Flight is NOT intuitive on the M+K.  I've tried inverted Y mouse and standard Y axis, and neither feels comfortable.  Basic flight is an integral part of the game, so it really should not be this clunky on any control scheme.  It's pretty apparent this was designed for a console controller and the PC mouse+keyboard option was an afterthought.
-The UI/UX is, if anything, worse as you spend more time in it.  It's like they looked at MEA and went "you know, I think people's complaint about too many menus was just that they aweren't visually stimulating enough.  6 layers of dense menus are an excellent design choice, it's just a visual problem."  HOLY **** NO.

Encouragingly, this thread is a fantastic summary and a BioWare employee did make a response to it: https://www.reddit.com/r/AnthemTheGame/comments/ak0g9g/no_spoilers_the_pc_version_is_an_afterthought/
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 05:13:18 pm by MP-Ryan »
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • Oceans rise. Empires fall.
Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
It's pretty apparent this was designed for a console controller and the PC mouse+keyboard option was an afterthought.

I always wonder why that suprises people. Shooters are by genre-definition about quick reaction and in the design phase steamlining the controls to single scheme is easiest way to achive a baseline for input time by the user, which then helps you nail down other aspects of gameplay to the second.

Basic flight is an integral part of the game, so it really should not be this clunky on any control scheme

To me, when starting out, the problem quickly became that there is no tutorial to teach you which mode of mobility the game wants you to employ when.

Flight is very much defined by its strong fowards momentum and slow turn rate (which is also slighty de-coupled from actually turning the camera, so you can look around) and is mostly useful for traversal when you can see the road ahead clearly. It is generally advantageous to start form an elevated position or a ramp, if not avalible you will have to spend some time simpling rising straight up. In combat, Flight is only useful in short bursts to escape or maneuver, like hoping over an Enforcer's Shield (hoping its flamethrower doesn't overheat your engines) and then go into Hover to shoot down on it.
Hover outside of combat is useful to make the sharp turns, in a Flight-to-Hover, then turn, then Hover-to-Flight maneuver. The transition takes a lot of gauge, so often it is more useful to just drop into Walking and go for a bit.

I had a hard time until I got that Walking/Spriniting isn't just there for when your Flight Gauge runs out.

Swimming is a different beast, esspecially due to the physics simulation. I haven't played any recent shooters that did underwater traversal but the physics of the Javelin underwater are signficant. You experience drag and when you enter a body of water you have to let the intial momentum wear off or you will widly overcorrect. I wish there was a reset camera button like in Gravity Rush 2 (where you "fly" by redefining "down" for falling).

ps. I was able to secure time in the communal laundry room of my building last minute. I am home all day today, so just hit me up before the demo ends.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 03:04:37 am by 0rph3u5 »
"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline MP-Ryan

  • Makes General Discussion Make Sense.
  • Global Moderator
  • 210
  • Keyboard > Pen > Sword
    • Twitter
Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
I always wonder why that suprises people. Shooters are by genre-definition about quick reaction and in the design phase steamlining the controls to single scheme is easiest way to achive a baseline for input time by the user, which then helps you nail down other aspects of gameplay to the second.

The problem with this is the inputs are corrected to a controller stick, like a joystick, which reverts to neutral when you stop applying input to it.  A mouse doesn't do that.  As the reddit thread points out, BioWare has tried in part to handle this by implementing negative mouse acceleration, but given the fast response time of the mouse (even when turned down), that makes the problem worse if anything.  The solution is, as numerous people also said in the thread, fixing the controls so mouse input is 1:1, eliminating the corrections necessary for a controller stick.

The real problem here is PC-based controls are infinitely more precise than a controller is capable of being, especially with modern mice, and they require dedicated support, not a half-baked attempt to map an entirely different set of inputs to controller malarky.

This goes double for the "press and hold" idiocy in menus, etc, and the UI generally.  Just let us ****ing click on menu items directly, why do I have to click separately into the submenu when I can already see the content.

---

On the plus side, flight and swimming controls aside, which are fixable, the gameplay with a group is fairly fun.  The demo content is extremely shallow so its not a good indication of what the game will actually be like, but the core gameplay definitely has promise.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
This game plays so much better with a controller, it's amazing.

So I got to play some more today; we did the story missions and the dungeon-ish thing, and yeah: Game is fun...

... when it works. Which it frequently doesn't; I ran into several infinite load screens and other bugs that were quite vexing. Definitely gonna jump into the full game when it releases, but probably not on launch day.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
God I ****ing hate press and hold! Even MGS5 is infected!

 

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • Oceans rise. Empires fall.
Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
The real problem here is PC-based controls are infinitely more precise than a controller is capable of being, especially with modern mice,

PC controlls are field of targets from a technical standpoint because of this. Controllers are not.

Unless you want to correct miniscule details and test how they snowball over and over again, you have at one time or another focus on a baseline instead of chasing the whole range of possibilties.

Maybe that's just me appricating the economics of it....
"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
So how's the writing and loré

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
So how's the writing and loré

Seems okay? I haven't really delved into the lore writing, but the pre-, in- and post-mission stuff seems fine.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • Oceans rise. Empires fall.
Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
So how's the writing and loré

I didn't really bother with the Lore-pickups in Freeplay other than for their XP-value ... but aside from the Site-makers most of this stuff went straight into the Cortex (your enclopedia) anyway. Site markers give you a little pop-up window to read but you can just look it up in the Cortex later if you just want to get on (and I really wanted to get on, being in motion was felt best about the game after all)

Envoirmental story telling is a thing, but there is a lot context missing in the Demo; in the Freeplay area there was something like a Scar Settlement (including a Dungeon) but it is just there; Similarly near most spawn points there are small camp sites and structures that serve as indicator of the Enemies that might spawn; there are also neutral camps where you get your lore pick-ups but again context is lacking. And there are sometimes NPCs out there too, mostly for the World Events but also not e.g. there are always Sentinels outside the Fort's walls.
The whole world is dotted with what seems to be part of the large singular structure which I guess has implications for the lore but is not explained in the Demo.


As far as the in-mission stuff goes, you basically got 6 scenes with one character for missions, none of which is a proper introduction - he is just your "science guy" -, it got a little more interesting as by the second scene something interesting happens:
Spoiler:
The artifact you were collecting does some reality bending and splits your science guy into 3 versions of himself (cause the artifact is called "Manifold"), each basically one of his main character traits made dominant. The rest of the questline is then to explain what happened and to prevent the trio from dying due to side effects.
It wraps up neatly as a sequence but is kinda "there" in term of an overall narrative that is supposed to be happening; there is no explaination why we are fighting the Dominion in one mission other then "they got the codes we want" or the Scar in the next other than "they kidnapped the people we are looking for".


The Stronghold (think a Destiny-Strike) was actually a bit more lively and explained itself somewhat through the banter of your three mission handlers (Regular Handler, Guide Handler, Mission Giver Handler) and your Freelancer; some it was quite humanistic, e.g. a running thread that the Mission Giver Handler is disgusted/has a phobia related the insectoid Scorpion-enemies, which make up the opposition during the second half of the Stronghold.


The best indication for World Building was actually chatting up the NPCs is Fort Tharsis, but that felt rather inconsequential - esspecially since it basically sitting there listening and at one point during the dialogue making a binary agree-disagree choice, which doesn't seem to change anything but what lines come next.
However the dialogue writing is actually quite humanistic ... despite the NPCs avalible being rather architypical; e.g. there is conversation with your Mechanic you can have about how all the other Lancers (=Javilin Pilots) doesn't appricate the comfort features she can and will install into the Javelins (its all rather mischiefious, instead the usual "complaint about roughing it"). They seem to have put some effort into the in-universe perspectives instead of just sanding down the archetypes until they fit, at least in what was on offer. It's not helped by the animations that are supposed to give each a distinct mannerism not being quite there-there - the clash between the mostly-realistic style and the technical flaws is bit too obvious (Maybe I am just fishing for another "See that why you don't go with Realism as a style"-argument).
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 07:27:11 am by 0rph3u5 »
"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline MP-Ryan

  • Makes General Discussion Make Sense.
  • Global Moderator
  • 210
  • Keyboard > Pen > Sword
    • Twitter
Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Personally, I found the Lore/writing "just there."  Didn't get me excited, mostly because so much of the demo is about figuring out how to execute the basic mechanics than I suspect few people paid much attention to the rest.

Really, the way I described it when chatting with my buddies while playing is "shallow." Of the questing types you get, it's all fetch quests pretty much. They work, but the lore really doesn't matter in the slightest. Even the mission you play, while competently done, doesn't generate a lot of interest in the character, but this is likely because the character is someone you should (but don't) know.  There are hints at a rich backstory and some mysteries behind what's going on, but for the purposes of the demo none of it is a compelling motivator.

I don't think the demo is something we can judge the full game by in this respect. It's too much of a slice of the gameplay to really develop anything.

I agree with Orpheus too - the freeplay world is just kind of "there."  While pretty, and detailed, it's pretty much just a pretty version of Borderlands maps - it exists only really to run around and get into fights.

I hope the full game is a complete reversal of this. I will not buy this title in launch until I can confirm two things:

1.  They fix the PC flight and swimming controls (because in god everything wrong with flight goes triple for swimming).

2.  Other players are able to give significant reviews of the writing and lore-building from a cohesive playthrough, or at least a partial one.

I'm cautiously optimistic. I sunk quite a bit if time into Borderlands, this light be a decent successor.

Oh, and I really hope they do something about the menus and social controls; party making for freeplay is a freaking mess too
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
I can only repeat that the game felt much better to play once I picked up a pad. That's not to excuse the inadequacy of the M+kb controls, just that when played as designed, the game gets much better.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline MP-Ryan

  • Makes General Discussion Make Sense.
  • Global Moderator
  • 210
  • Keyboard > Pen > Sword
    • Twitter
Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
I can only repeat that the game felt much better to play once I picked up a pad. That's not to excuse the inadequacy of the M+kb controls, just that when played as designed, the game gets much better.

This is going to come off as grumpy, because I am grumpy about this, an it's not directed at you personally but at BioWare and the mindset they likely had on this topic:

I'm sure it did.  However, I - and probably most PC-only game players - neither own a controller nor have any desire to learn to use one (I'm abysmally-bad at console games as a result).  If you're going to release a title on PC, you bloody well make sure it works with a mouse and keyboard.  Otherwise, it's as the reddit thread is titled:  PC is an afterthought.  In which case, I'm not paying them a cent.  In its current state, I cannot recommend the game to anyone who does not own a controller.  Hopefully the final build (and maybe the next demo, please please please) will correct this issue.

EDIT:  If it's not fixed in the next demo, I might shell out $5 for a 1 month subscription to Origin access to try a few hours of the final build's gameplay and see if they fixed this bull**** or not.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 01:16:47 pm by MP-Ryan »
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 
Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Tbh if you're going to spent 5$ on Origin Access basic to see if Anthem is good you could also just spent your time playing, say, Titanfall 2 which is on Origin Access Basic.

Or Duskers, The Sexy Brutale, Shadow Tactics, Tyranny, Burnout Paradise Remastered...

Just don't be that guy that pays money to play a demo.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

  • Makes General Discussion Make Sense.
  • Global Moderator
  • 210
  • Keyboard > Pen > Sword
    • Twitter
Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
So, not in time for this weekend's demo, but this is promising news:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AnthemTheGame/comments/am3lvf/pc_controls_update_aiming_and_flight/

Looks like they've made a serious attempt to fix the PC mouse controls.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]