Author Topic: HTL Colossus  (Read 21207 times)

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Offline Nuke

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it looks like a co... uhm ....lossus yea :D
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Offline Taristin

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I'd like to point out that I am still deleting posts like that. :p
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Offline Nuke

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just making fun of my bad behavior
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Offline FireCrack

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wow...., realy wow


(can i use a ... and a , together?)

From this point on "Their finest hour" is officialy the mission i dislike the most in the whole game...


...except maby danqurke.
actualy, mabye not.
"When ink and pen in hands of men Inscribe your form, bipedal P They draw an altar on which God has slaughtered all stability, no eyes could ever soak in all the places you anoint, and yet to see you all at once we only need the point. Flirting with infinity, your geometric progeny that fit inside you oh so tight with triangles that feel so right."
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944 59230781640628620899862803482534211706...
"Your ever-constant homily says flaw is discipline, the patron saint of imperfection frees us from our sin. And if our transcendental lift shall find a final floor, then Man will know the death of God where wonder was before."

 

Offline Bobboau

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subobjects of subobjects that have a detail box do not get processed untill there parent is visable, so if you add more and more detail it will work eficently, only processing the boxes that are postentaly visable.

the converter does not understand this at all, so you will have to do things manualy. the fisrt thing you have to do is, in the object properties (in PCS, unless the max converter allows setting of this stuff) type
$detail_box:
followed by a 1 (drawing while inside) or a -1 (drawing when outside)
this code was origonaly put in place to allow super-detailed launch bays so, by default, it will use the object's bounding box to determine wather or not to draw the object, to define your own box, you will need two more strings
$box_min:
three floats defineing the minimum corner of the box, basicly all the values that would be negitive, and
$box_max:
three floats defineing the maximum corner of the box
the coords are in subobject local coordanants.
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Offline StratComm

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You can set that stuff in the user properties field and Max will export it without any problem.  There's no error checking, but there isn't in PCS either.
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline KARMA

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Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
$detail_box:
followed by a 1 (drawing while inside) or a -1 (drawing when outside)
this code was origonaly put in place to allow super-detailed launch bays
 


and maybe endor death stars too, mm?
and actually I was thinking that the detail box will work fine for the exterior of the death stars too....mmm... the only problem would probably be the pof polylimit.

anyway...a couple more questions:
1-If I correctly understood, I'll have to make the high detailed version as parent and the low detailed version as child,right?

2-can I use multiple detail boxes for more versions of the same subobject? I think yes from what you said but I want to be sure

3-is there a limit (strict or suggestable) on the number of subobjects with detail boxes that I can use? because if not I may try to make a fully scalable model and use only one traditional lod for the very long distances. It would take more time but the result will be much better

4- can someone remind me the limit of tris that can be thrown in a pof (counting all lods/subobjects)? and the max number of subobjects too?

thanks
« Last Edit: May 15, 2005, 05:25:46 pm by 433 »

 

Offline Liberator

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*falls out of chair*
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

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Offline Nuke

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one of theese days im gonna model the ssj dante's interior so i can play with our detail box feature :D
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline StratComm

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I really wonder if these detail subobjects are counting against FRED limits.  I suspect that those are table limits rather than model, but I can't really be sure.  Anyway, don't go overboard because subobjects still get a seperate render call and so the more you add the slower it's going to get.  It'd be better to swap out one for another than to add layer upon layer of detail, I would think.
who needs a signature? ;)
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline Bobboau

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"subobjects still get a seperate render call and so the more you add the slower it's going to get."

words of wisdom :)

but still if there is some pipe greebleing aroung an (200 meter) engine on the back of a 5000 meter ship, there is no reason to waist time drawing the two pixels that 500 poly's worth of pipe greeble is going to equate to.

@KARMA:
1)no, they need to be siblings (children of the same parent), child objects will only be drawen when there parents are so if you make a low detail version a child of a high detail one, it will never draw (because the only instance when it even will be evailuated will be when the high detail object is drawen, wich is when the low detail one never should be).
useing an engine again you have an object with 1500 pollies and a 500 poly version, the size of the object is about 200 meters, so 2000 meters seems like a good sized distance. makeing the two versions of the object childeren of the same parent (most likely the hull) you give them identical detail boxes, but the low detail version a -1 value and the high detail version a 1 value, in addition you make a bunch of pipe greebles on the engine subobject, lets say you use 1000 polys for this, but there only realy visable when you are looking at them from within 500 meters, so you atach the pipe greeble to the high poly engine  as a child, then setup a detail box that is about 500 meters in all directions. now lets say after that you decide to make some super greebleing lot's of little cuplings and braces and things holding the pipes together and crossmembers and stuff, it adds another 1500 pollies but it's only visable when you are like right in front of the object, like within 100 meters, so you atach this super greeble as a child to the pipe greeble (because it'll only be visable after the pipes are) and give it a box that's just a little bit bigger than the bounding box of the object.

2)unfortunately this was built as more of an object culling system so you can't realy have like a 100 poly version of an object, then a 1000 poly version, and then a 10000 poly version, you can only have two, and if your not carefull you can end up with situations were both or neither get drawen. although in some very specific situations you can sort of cheat and get a few intermediary versions, but this requiers limiting how the player can aproach an object (basicly in a hanger)

3)don't make the entier hull out of sections, but it would probly be good if you could add detail in groups, the way this is suposed to work is the closer you get to an object the more 'stuff' shows up on it, it isn't exactly like the traditional LOD system you'r familiar with were you make poly choped versions of a high poly object, with this you simply add more objects.

4)well, the max number of *points* that can be assigned to one texture on one object is 65536, that does not equate to a hard triangle limit, but you know you will have at least 1/3rd of that (almost always a lot more than that, you could have more tris than points). don't think there is a max on subobjects, if there is it's probly 256 or 512.
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Offline WMCoolmon

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Quote
"subobjects still get a seperate render call and so the more you add the slower it's going to get."


Would it be possible to set a "pristine" flag that would tell FS to render the model all at once? (This would be completely internal and set only when all the subsystems are undamaged)

Edit: Er, as the new submodel LOD system allows. I'm thinking this could really speed up rendering of fighters, which usually don't have subsystems disabled (as they die first :p) or any capital ships that use the ship-subsystem-guardian SEXP on all subsystems (So you could have a cap battle in the distance with less slowdown)
« Last Edit: May 16, 2005, 12:46:01 am by 374 »
-C

 

Offline KARMA

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Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau


@KARMA:
1)no, they need to be siblings (children of the same parent), child objects will only be drawen when there parents are so if you make a low detail version a child of a high detail one, it will never draw (because the only instance when it even will be evailuated will be when the high detail object is drawen, wich is when the low detail one never should be).
useing an engine again you have an object with 1500 pollies and a 500 poly version, the size of the object is about 200 meters, so 2000 meters seems like a good sized distance. makeing the two versions of the object childeren of the same parent (most likely the hull) you give them identical detail boxes, but the low detail version a -1 value and the high detail version a 1 value, in addition you make a bunch of pipe greebles on the engine subobject, lets say you use 1000 polys for this, but there only realy visable when you are looking at them from within 500 meters, so you atach the pipe greeble to the high poly engine  as a child, then setup a detail box that is about 500 meters in all directions. now lets say after that you decide to make some super greebleing lot's of little cuplings and braces and things holding the pipes together and crossmembers and stuff, it adds another 1500 pollies but it's only visable when you are like right in front of the object, like within 100 meters, so you atach this super greeble as a child to the pipe greeble (because it'll only be visable after the pipes are) and give it a box that's just a little bit bigger than the bounding box of the object.


mmmm I'm getting it now, a thing that I missed is that the rendering of the detail box subobjects is addictive and that confused me.
I was hopeing to have the possibility with this system to make a pipe of 6-8 edges that will transform in a pipe with 16 edges when you get too close.
Anyway, ok, it seems to me that the best way to proceed is to define a base-line mesh, which is what will be always rendered (at lod0), and then add details that will be shown only when people get closer.
I'll have to rethink a couple of things, and probably more than with the details already present in the wip shots I'll use it for new details, but indeed it's pretty interesting.

 

Offline Ryx

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Fantastic stuff! :yes:
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Offline Unknown Target

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So do we get any updates or what?

 

Offline starfox

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Mighty neat !!! Those look really amazing, wonder when we get to see the new HTL-Colossus in-action ?
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Offline TopAce

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Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
So do we get any updates or what?


Of course we will get some updates, but it is far not sure it will be related to this model.
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Offline Bobboau

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Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon


Would it be possible to set a "pristine" flag that would tell FS to render the model all at once?


nope.
Bobboau, bringing you products that work... in theory
learn to use PCS
creator of the ProXimus Procedural Texture and Effect Generator
My latest build of PCS2, get it while it's hot!
PCS 2.0.3


DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline Grimloq

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:bump:

UPDATEZORZ!!! WE DEMAND UPDATES! :p
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Offline FireCrack

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actualy, mabye not.
"When ink and pen in hands of men Inscribe your form, bipedal P They draw an altar on which God has slaughtered all stability, no eyes could ever soak in all the places you anoint, and yet to see you all at once we only need the point. Flirting with infinity, your geometric progeny that fit inside you oh so tight with triangles that feel so right."
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944 59230781640628620899862803482534211706...
"Your ever-constant homily says flaw is discipline, the patron saint of imperfection frees us from our sin. And if our transcendental lift shall find a final floor, then Man will know the death of God where wonder was before."