Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The FRED Workshop => Topic started by: Bryan See on December 08, 2019, 12:48:45 pm
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Okay, since several years ago, y'all asked me to start something small - no voice acting, stick in FS2 territory, few missions. And I did.
While designing these missions, I've decided to not to make the player character, Kappa 3, a talking character until the very end of the campaign. I made these missions continuous without a briefing screen in between via red alert setting.
It can be played in Vanilla FS2 at minimum, but it is best be played if MediaVPs is enabled, and even better if Blue Planet is enabled.
The campaign is packed into a file called fs2-litm.zip. It is attached here.
To play the campaign, extract its contents to the data/missions folder. Then run FS2 and go to Campaigns and select "Lost in the Mist", and start playing.
As a first-time modder, I am starting small. And this is the result.
[attachment eaten by a Shivan]
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Congratulations. You’ve managed to crush what little expectations we had for this campaign.
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Okay, since several years ago, y'all asked me to start something small - no voice acting, stick in FS2 territory, few missions. And I did.
While designing these missions, I've decided to not to make the player character, Kappa 3, a talking character until the very end of the campaign. I made these missions continuous without a briefing screen in between via red alert setting.
It can be played in Vanilla FS2 at minimum, but it is best be played if MediaVPs is enabled, and even better if Blue Planet is enabled.
The campaign is packed into a file called fs2-litm.zip. It is attached here.
To play the campaign, extract its contents to the data/missions folder. Then run FS2 and go to Campaigns and select "Lost in the Mist", and start playing.
As a first-time modder, I am starting small. And this is the result.
It is indeed encouraging that you are taking the advice to start small. Building skills takes time and patience and small steps. Listening to the the constructive feedback is a very vital first step. The key now is to always play-test missions and do your best to take future constructive criticism as feedback to improve. Key word is construction, if someone is taking the time to write out something in a constructive way it is a good idea to try and follow that advice.
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Lost in the Mist is boring at its best. Let's keep to its best.
I understand that you've made a decision to keep Kappa 3 silent, but the entire wing has also lost their voice. Communications are breaking down and Kappa just completely ignores the problem, flying past without as much as an input. This is made even more glaring when you fly for a minute and a half in awkward silence. I don't expect voice acting, but *something* would be great so it doesn't feel so lifelessly dull. When Pisces wing showed up, in the middle of the dogfight I realize my fellow wingmen were not assisting at all, resulting in Kappa 1's death. On my second playthrough (will explain later why I played this through a second time) is when Kappa assisted me; I was about 10k+m away by the Aquitaine curious to see what happened. Nothing did. They reached their waypoint and waited around, and Pisces wing didn't show up until I closed distance. Then and ONLY then did Kappa wing actually assisted with no casualities; because whatever Waypoint you had going prevented them from such. After the Dogfight, there was a slap black screen that made me think my PC crashed.
It's called 'fade to black', not 'slapped black on screen', mate.
The second half is where problems start to arise. "Escape" means nothing to me, at all. There's no waypoint, no objective marker, just "escape" until I flew adrift for a couple minutes until yet another black screen. I get the FS2 dialogue and...nothing happens. The screen remains black, I'm pretty sure I hear Shivan fighters, but it doesn't end.
Also was there a reason to be able to call in the support ship for both halves? I assumed the second one I was completely on my own.
All in all, if I had to give this a numbered review, it'd be low. Things feel slapped on without much context and this extends to the briefing where you're ordered to follow Zeta wing. The campaign virtually doesn't end and overall it just feels like a wasted execution of a decent idea. Some more context, polish and something to actually interest the player outside of two dogfights and an escape with no escape plan and this would've been worth the 10 minutes.
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I'm positvely surprised. Compared with Shattered Stars it is a tremendous improvement. I played through the entire campaign without a single crash-to-desktop. What I liked most was your extensive use of the fade-out SEXP; even though other players might not like it, the sole reliance on acustic rather than visual enviroments over most of the campaign was truly unexpected.
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I'm positvely surprised. Compared with Shattered Stars it is a tremendous improvement. I played through the entire campaign without a single crash-to-desktop. What I liked most was your extensive use of the fade-out SEXP; even though other players might not like it, the sole reliance on acustic rather than visual enviroments over most of the campaign was truly unexpected.
Nightmare, I take this as a complement.
Shattered Stars is now back to the drawing board, and remains a terrifying daunting prospect. The newly announced project, Fractured Suns, is less daunting and may bridge the gap into it. And two new demo projects, are coming up. One is a scaled-down version of what was announced five years ago (pre-2018 Shattered Stars), and one does not use any custom assets yet requires Wing Commander Saga to play (a mod-for-a-mod).
My extensive use of the fade-out SEXP is to make the campaign less-mission based, and I made Kappa 3 a non-talking character because I wanted to immerse themselves.
And for the problems one said, I've corrected them. It's all included in the update in the attachments. Download it, replace them if you have. If you don't have, just extract into the data/missions directory.
[attachment eaten by a Shivan]
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At maximum 1% of it were meant as a compliment.
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At maximum 1% of it were meant as a compliment.
What? What do you mean? I've corrected much of the issues.
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I was reffering to the initial mod anyway, haven't tried the other one.
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I was reffering to the initial mod anyway, haven't tried the other one.
You'd better get the updated one, and let me know.
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As a very strong suggestion, please conduct your own playtesting before release to avoid negative feedback. Take note of some o the highlighted issues such as
-boredom
-lack of fun
-lack of defined objectives
-no joy
And please be your own worst critic when you play before release, rectify boring missions where nothing happens for minutes at a time without context, it will only benefit your campaigns reception by the community.
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I was reffering to the initial mod anyway, haven't tried the other one.
You'd better get the updated one, and let me know.
Sure but I don't have time for that right now.
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As a very strong suggestion, please conduct your own playtesting before release to avoid negative feedback. Take note of some o the highlighted issues such as
-boredom
-lack of fun
-lack of defined objectives
-no joy
And please be your own worst critic when you play before release, rectify boring missions where nothing happens for minutes at a time without context, it will only benefit your campaigns reception by the community.
I love to do that. And that's why my projects have, time and again, shown a proven tendency to undergo drastic changes well into development all this time, due to these as you pointed out. Yet, Nightmare praised me of my use of fade-out SEXPs, which I'll use to maximal effect to partially address the aforementioned issues.
Furthermore, my playtesting is hampered due to technical issues. Most laptops have outdated graphics drivers, and one desktop (which generate a lot of heat and eats more power sadly) suffered a hang and an unexpected shutdown despite a graphics card change back in September.
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-boredom
-lack of fun
-lack of defined objectives
-no joy
Yet, Nightmare praised me of my use of fade-out SEXPs, which I'll use to maximal effect to partially address the aforementioned issues.
..
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-boredom
-lack of fun
-lack of defined objectives
-no joy
Yet, Nightmare praised me of my use of fade-out SEXPs, which I'll use to maximal effect to partially address the aforementioned issues.
..
What do you mean? I wanted to maximise the use of fade-out SEXPS to try to address the issues of boredom, lack of fun, lack of defined objectives, and no joy whatsoever in my future projects.
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None of those criticisms can be addressed by using more fade-out sexps.
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None of those criticisms can be addressed by using more fade-out sexps.
Indeed. It needs more than just dialogue, mission briefings, command briefs, debriefs and fiction viewer, as well as FMV cutscenes.
In many cases, a design document is required.
Despite the shortcomings, is it okay for me to make campaigns and mods further to improve myself?
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None of those criticisms can be addressed by using more fade-out sexps.
Indeed. It needs more than just dialogue, mission briefings, command briefs, debriefs and fiction viewer, as well as FMV cutscenes.
In many cases, a design document is required.
Despite the shortcomings, is it okay for me to make campaigns and mods further to improve myself?
Absolutely! Keep your projects small and manageable while you build up your skill set, and listen to the feedback you receive. It's fine to have grand ideas for the ultimate mod with all the latest bells and whistles, but it takes a lot of practice to build up the experience needed for that eventual project. These smaller projects may be the best way to do that.
I think "fun" may be that hardest, most ethereal aspect. I'm sure I could learn to FRED and maybe even code, but I don't think I could come up with an original mission, let alone story or campaign, that is "fun".
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At this point I want you to finish the Fred tutorial mission. Then make a SINGLE mission that has no mundanity.
If you follow the Fred tutorial this should pose zero problem.
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At this point I want you to finish the Fred tutorial mission. Then make a SINGLE mission that has no mundanity.
If you follow the Fred tutorial this should pose zero problem.
I am following, but it would be better if this Fred tutorial is to be improved, with maximal uses of the MediaVPs to take advantage of the features that came with FSOpen.
I am working on a Fred tutorial mission. Then I'll make another one.
If I finish, where should I post?
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At this point I want you to finish the Fred tutorial mission. Then make a SINGLE mission that has no mundanity.
If you follow the Fred tutorial this should pose zero problem.
I am following, but it would be better if this Fred tutorial is to be improved, with maximal uses of the MediaVPs to take advantage of the features that came with FSOpen.
I am working on a Fred tutorial mission. Then I'll make another one.
highlight board of course
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I am following, but it would be better if this Fred tutorial is to be improved, with maximal uses of the MediaVPs to take advantage of the features that came with FSOpen.
I'd strongly suggest doing the Diaspora training mission then. It is old but much newer than the one that comes with FRED. I used a lot of FS2_Open features in it.
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I am following, but it would be better if this Fred tutorial is to be improved, with maximal uses of the MediaVPs to take advantage of the features that came with FSOpen.
I'd strongly suggest doing the Diaspora training mission then. It is old but much newer than the one that comes with FRED. I used a lot of FS2_Open features in it.
Thank you for this, Karajoma! When can you be involved in some of my projects, include Rekt Galaxies and Shattered Stars?
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I'm 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999999999999999999999% sure he won't be involved in any of your projects.
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I'll add 1% to that tally.
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I'll add 1% to that tally.
Personally I would add another 1000000000000000000000000000000000000% to my assumption.
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I'll add 1% to that tally.
Personally I would add another 1000000000000000000000000000000000000% to my assumption.
Agreed :)
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Good boy, good boy.
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Good boy, good boy.
I love you :) :)
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😂😂😂😂
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😂😂😂😂
Cool! And now I've got my FS2_Open repository on github, and I'm ready to take it into my own hands, as with Knossos.
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😂😂😂😂
Cool! And now I've got my FS2_Open repository on github, and I'm ready to take it into my own hands, as with Knossos.
You still did not show a sample application written in C++, rather, you shied away from those comments and now, you want to take on FSO all by yourself?
I shall enlighten you:
There is an entire TEAM. Who work on FSO. Who knows what they are doing, who have an idea about the game. Who are experienced to getting the FSO as it is till date.
I really want to see you and your skills on C++, so take it as a challenge and show me something that YOU HAVE MADE ON YOUR OWN. An idea which is not some common thing that is found on stack overflow or geeks for geeks.
If you show it, you can evaluate yourself. If you evade from this reply too, all that one can consider is that you avoided this topic, and you are all show and no go.
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I hate to be that guy...
Bryan, you seem completely blind to subtext. Let me use two recent posts as examples. (Correct me if I'm wrong, Nightmare and Colonol Dekker.)
I'm 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999999999999999999999% sure he won't be involved in any of your projects.
Subtext: "It is absurdly improbable that karajorma would ever collaborate with you, due to your inability to learn from mistakes, inability to communicate with people, and general incompetence."
I'll add 1% to that tally.
Subtext: "It is, in fact, literally impossible that karajorma would ever collaborate with you, for all of the reasons that Nightmare is implying."
If you read this thread carefully, you will find many other instances of sarcasm and thinly veiled criticism.
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I hate to be that guy...
Bryan, you seem completely blind to subtext. Let me use two recent posts as examples. (Correct me if I'm wrong, Nightmare and Colonol Dekker.)
I'm 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999999999999999999999% sure he won't be involved in any of your projects.
Subtext: "It is absurdly improbable that karajorma would ever collaborate with you, due to your inability to learn from mistakes, inability to communicate with people, and general incompetence."
I'll add 1% to that tally.
Subtext: "It is, in fact, literally impossible that karajorma would ever collaborate with you, for all of the reasons that Nightmare is implying."
If you read this thread carefully, you will find many other instances of sarcasm and thinly veiled criticism.
I am willing take that criticism...
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I hate to be that guy...
Bryan, you seem completely blind to subtext. Let me use two recent posts as examples. (Correct me if I'm wrong, Nightmare and Colonol Dekker.)
I'm 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999999999999999999999% sure he won't be involved in any of your projects.
Subtext: "It is absurdly improbable that karajorma would ever collaborate with you, due to your inability to learn from mistakes, inability to communicate with people, and general incompetence."
I'll add 1% to that tally.
Subtext: "It is, in fact, literally impossible that karajorma would ever collaborate with you, for all of the reasons that Nightmare is implying."
If you read this thread carefully, you will find many other instances of sarcasm and thinly veiled criticism.
100% correct 👍👌💯%
@Bryan... Or BS, (as I'll refer to you from now on)
You spin too many plates, people lose interest and even forget which one is which as they all blend together and lose identity. Even the Top Gun thread 😭🤣
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Not everyone can understand modding this advanced.
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People here are making some proper suggestions though. Firstly, casting aside large projects like Shattered Stars and starting small with Lost in the Mist was definitely a step in the right direction, even though the "campaign" still came out terrible.
One of the problems people noticed with the mod is that there was a major bug that didn't let you finish the campaign at all. The mission was supposed to end some time after the player is killed, but the player was invulnerable, so unable to be killed. Therefore the mission never ended.
This means you did not play your mod from start to finish before you released it. This is a very big mistake. When you think your mod is finished, you must play through it all before releasing. Without it you don't know if it is playable at all.
Also a thing to notice, the idea of the campaign ending some time after player's death with the player watching some mevents from the death cam view is actually kind of unique.
For now, just complete some FRED tutorial. And then play the mission that you made when following the tutorial.
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@Bryan... Or BS, (as I'll refer to you from now on)
:wakka:
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@Bryan... Or BS, (as I'll refer to you from now on)
:wakka:
Fine...
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Lost in the Mist released (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=97404.0).