Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Topgun on November 24, 2010, 07:09:18 pm
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I need a new controller as the xbox360 controller I am using now doesn't have nearly enough buttons or configurability (Is that a word?).
Any ideas?
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Could you give me your Xbox controller once you get a new one?
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Could you give me your Xbox controller once you get a new one?
If you pay shipping. its the gamespot brand I doubt it will be worth it.
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buy a joystick.
if buttons is the issue, im sure there is some 3rd party control mapping software you could use to fake a shift button.
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buy a joystick.
if buttons is the issue, im sure there is some 3rd party control mapping software you could use to fake a shift button.
I need it for than just freespace.
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Can't you get a gamepad to work concurrently with keyboard?
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Can't you get a gamepad to work concurrently with keyboard?
that depends, can you grow extra hands?
buy a joystick.
if buttons is the issue, im sure there is some 3rd party control mapping software you could use to fake a shift button.
I need it for than just freespace.
thats about what i figured. theres a limit to how many buttons can fit on a gamepad. a single hand joystick can free up your other hand for the keyboard, and a hotas gives you more buttons than you could ever use. gamepads really arent the way to go if you need more buttons.
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I used to have a logitech that was perfect but it broke after a couple of years and now they don't manufacture it anymore.
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i had a gravis gamepad which wasnt too bad. but it got dropped somewhere along the lines and stopped working.
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I am looking for the exactly same thing. So far I can't really find one perfectly match my requirement.
I am very particular on the number of buttons. Many gamepad manufacturers in this world have gone backward reducing the number of buttons for unknown retarded reason. Moving from 6 face buttons to 4 is a good example. I don't care about the price, let it be sky high but I just want the god d*mn buttons!
However after the long search, I have 3 shortlisted gamepads. Have a look, 1 of them may fit your need. I am disappointed because none of those have 6 face buttons.
1) Thrustmaster Run-N-Drive, Wireless, USA. 2008. PC + PS
http://www.thrustmaster.com/files.aspx?ProductID=92&Images=1
Review at :-
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=235&Itemid=65&limit=1&limitstart=0
14 programmable buttons (What i noticed).
Additional 2 at left Dpad and 2 at bottom.
(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/iieeann/Forum%20-%20Others/Thrustmaster_Run-N-Drive_1.jpg)
2) Elecom JC-U3016 series. Wired, Japan. 2009.
http://www2.elecom.co.jp/peripheral/gamepad/jc-u3016f/index.asp
16 programmable buttons (officially announced)
(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/iieeann/Forum%20-%20Others/JC-U3016FSVD.jpg)
3) Laishida PXN-2933. Wireless, China. 2010.
http://www.e-pxn.com.cn/cn/products/detail.asp?id=456
16 programmable buttons (what i observed. Officially announced only 12, the 4 mini buttons at left dpad are not included)
(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/iieeann/Forum%20-%20Others/PXN-2933.jpg)
I am currently using this Saitek P2900, only 13 programmable buttons. 2005
(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/iieeann/Forum%20-%20Others/SaitekP2900.jpg)
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11eeann: can you pass the turing test or are you a bot?
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I am currently using this Saitek P2900, only 13 programmable buttons.
(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/iieeann/Forum%20-%20Others/SaitekP2900.jpg)
I bought something similar once, but then I found it frustrating to use, so I gave it away.
11eeann: can you pass the turing test or are you a bot?
I thought spambots were less sophisticated.
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huh, I am still modifying the post and already got reply :eek2:
The verification letters are hard to read, especially the letter T in the big picture. Read it as I and many times not pass.
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I am currently using this Saitek P2900, only 13 programmable buttons.
(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/iieeann/Forum%20-%20Others/SaitekP2900.jpg)
I bought something similar once, but then I found it frustrating to use, so I gave it away.
Yes the gamepad is of lower quality build, non-ergonomic and the gamepad control program is really complicated and i spent lots of time on it. It offers me 12+1 buttons, so that is why i still using it. the +1 button is the analog/digital button and really f*cking hard to make it into action button; even with so it is not working perfectly.
I have another 3 (three) Logitech Cordless Rumblepad version 1. Has 11 programmable buttons, ergonomic on hand held but too heavy. I opened up the case and cut off the 2 vibrating motors to reduce the weight. 4 size AA batteries, imagine how heavy it is.
(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/iieeann/Forum%20-%20Others/CordlessRumblepad.jpg)
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That last one, the logitech, thats what I used to have, it was great but now they don't make it anymore and I can't find it anywhere
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hehe, that is why i have 3 (three) of them. I search in ebay periodically for anybody selling used set and bought it just in case if my units died one day. New in box set is almost impossible to find.
Do not buy controller alone without the USB receiver, they must be in pair and won't synchronize with each other. I am still using it, but am leaning towards Saitek P2900 because of 13 programmable buttons (logitech only 11). I just found out last night to perperly setup the Saitek analog/digital button.
2nd generation (until now) gamepads from Logitech are all as what i said of retarded design. Should logitech have kept the 6 face buttons design I would have saved my time looking for other brands. Even Saitek has fallen into the same stupid trend. Newer products are all 4 face buttons ... :no:
yii, how come no more verification and the space ship picture now?
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(http://www.videogamesblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/steel-battalion-1-xbox-controller-with-pedals-and-box-package.jpg)
Would this be enough buttons?
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:D that would be a perfect set for racing, shooting or flight simulation game.
Both Topgun and me are looking for gamepad only and not joystick. I play mmoprg game and still requires keyboard very often and a compact gamepad with maximum buttons could help a lot.
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*snip*
that is the most badass thing ive ever seen. i always did like dual joystick configurations. if ch had a left handed fighter stick, id have bought it already. best way to play mech or tank games imho.
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I am currently using this Saitek P2900, only 13 programmable buttons.
(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/iieeann/Forum%20-%20Others/SaitekP2900.jpg)
I have a P880 wired one sitting next to me, looks exactly the same. Borrowed it from a friend, love it, hoping to get one for Christmas.
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I have a P880 wired one sitting next to me, looks exactly the same. Borrowed it from a friend, love it, hoping to get one for Christmas.
Hmm... However Saitek gamepad is not very ergonimic, while holding it is not convenience at all to place 2nd and 3rd fingers at the 2 shoulder buttons each side. If you need only 1 shoulder button at 1 time then it is ok.
Both the analog ministicks are too much extruded out. Thumb strain if playing long hour.
DPAD has over sensitive issue and not adjustable. happened 10% of the time, when i press and release the dpad will perform more than 1 action; and sometimes it repeats indefinitely. This never happened with the old Logitech gamepad.
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That's why I asked for a Logitech :P
I only have used it for racing games, which is what I wanted it for in the first place. Nitro + handbrake on the shoulder button, shifter assigned the the stick buttons
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LOL... just found an interesting gamepad. I can't even count the number of buttons on it. The Elecom 16 buttons gamepad is blown away.
(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/iieeann/Forum%20-%20Others/MB-2177B.jpg)
(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/iieeann/Forum%20-%20Others/MB-2177B-2.jpg)
Official website at http://www.gamtecstation.com/details.asp?ID=2139
China product. Not sure about software & support. Too bad it is wired.
They have over 100 gamepads + controllers, some are interesting.
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Know anything about this one?
http://www.amazon.com/NYKO-TECHNOLOGIES-80650-Airflow-Controller/dp/tech-data/B0006NGY9C/ref=de_a_smtd
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i went and ordered me one of the cheep chinese made ps2 gamepad clones for the pc. it cost me a whole 8 bucks (and the shipping was free). but i mainly bought it for console emulation and as something portable for my laptop bag.
LOL... just found an interesting gamepad. I can't even count the number of buttons on it. The Elecom 16 buttons gamepad is blown away.
(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/iieeann/Forum%20-%20Others/MB-2177B.jpg)
(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/iieeann/Forum%20-%20Others/MB-2177B-2.jpg)
Official website at http://www.gamtecstation.com/details.asp?ID=2139
China product. Not sure about software & support. Too bad it is wired.
They have over 100 gamepads + controllers, some are interesting.
good find. might actually make freespace playable on a game pad.
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LOL... just found an interesting gamepad. I can't even count the number of buttons on it. The Elecom 16 buttons gamepad is blown away.
(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/iieeann/Forum%20-%20Others/MB-2177B.jpg)
(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/iieeann/Forum%20-%20Others/MB-2177B-2.jpg)
Official website at http://www.gamtecstation.com/details.asp?ID=2139
It looks a bit like a radio. :wtf:
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i went and ordered me one of the cheep chinese made ps2 gamepad clones for the pc. it cost me a whole 8 bucks (and the shipping was free). but i mainly bought it for console emulation and as something portable for my laptop bag.
Why go for a PS2 clone when you can have the real thing. Get an adapter like mine (http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=ps2+gamepad+adaptor&hl=en&safe=active&cid=17403115380522351377&ei=LB4TTZuEBJOF-AbJnoC1Cw&sa=title&ved=0CAwQ8wIwATgA#p), then you can also use PS2 joystick, steering wheels, light guns and various other PS2 peripherals.
Heck I even used an Eye toy as a web cam for a while, but that didn't need the adapter, it has a USB connection.
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i went and ordered me one of the cheep chinese made ps2 gamepad clones for the pc. it cost me a whole 8 bucks (and the shipping was free). but i mainly bought it for console emulation and as something portable for my laptop bag.
Why go for a PS2 clone when you can have the real thing
8 bucks
also the fact that i didnt want to carry around an adapter.
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Well that adapter is $7.70 But that was the first adapter I found online here in the UK.
As for carrying an adapter round, well it just adds a foot length of lead to the gamepad lead and if you happen to have a plethora of PS2 game controllers, like I do, then I think this would be the best route. But you have bought a gamepad now so.......................... :blah:
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You could always get a Steel Battalion controller. Pretty sure they got that working with PC.
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Know anything about this one?
http://www.amazon.com/NYKO-TECHNOLOGIES-80650-Airflow-Controller/dp/tech-data/B0006NGY9C/ref=de_a_smtd
This product is obsolete, i think 4-5 years old and supports until XP only. It is not compatible with Win7, but I am not absolutely sure if there is other way that may make it work.
It has 13 programmable buttons, so it is extra 1 button compared to mainstream gamepad.
Another company that make gamepad with more buttons than normal is Speed-Link. Look for the previous generation gamepad (strike 2 etc). Latest Strike 3 series is of retarded design with less buttons, joining the group with Logitech and Saitek.
One of the main reasons of less button design nowadays is because of compliance to the newer Microsoft Xinput (xbox 360) standard which works natively on both xbox and PC. Gamepad with many buttons normally uses DirectInput which has no major change since DirectX 8.
A quote from wiki about Xinput vs Directinput:-
" XInput supports maxima of 4 axes, 10 buttons, 2 triggers and 8-direction digital pad per controller, compared to DirectInput's support for 8 axes, 128 buttons, and full-range POV. "
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Know anything about this one?
http://www.amazon.com/NYKO-TECHNOLOGIES-80650-Airflow-Controller/dp/tech-data/B0006NGY9C/ref=de_a_smtd
This product is obsolete, i think 4-5 years old and supports until XP only. It is not compatible with Win7, but I am not absolutely sure if there is other way that may make it work.
It has 13 programmable buttons, so it is extra 1 button compared to mainstream gamepad.
Another company that make gamepad with more buttons than normal is Speed-Link. Look for the previous generation gamepad (strike 2 etc). Latest Strike 3 series is of retarded design with less buttons, joining the group with Logitech and Saitek.
One of the main reasons of less button design nowadays is because of compliance to the newer Microsoft Xinput (xbox 360) standard which works natively on both xbox and PC. Gamepad with many buttons normally uses DirectInput which has no major change since DirectX 8.
A quote from wiki about Xinput vs Directinput:-
" XInput supports maxima of 4 axes, 10 buttons, 2 triggers and 8-direction digital pad per controller, compared to DirectInput's support for 8 axes, 128 buttons, and full-range POV. "
Well that sucks.
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Well that adapter is $7.70 But that was the first adapter I found online here in the UK.
As for carrying an adapter round, well it just adds a foot length of lead to the gamepad lead and if you happen to have a plethora of PS2 game controllers, like I do, then I think this would be the best route. But you have bought a gamepad now so.......................... :blah:
you still have to buy the controller.
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Well that adapter is $7.70 But that was the first adapter I found online here in the UK.
As for carrying an adapter round, well it just adds a foot length of lead to the gamepad lead and if you happen to have a plethora of PS2 game controllers, like I do, then I think this would be the best route. But you have bought a gamepad now so.......................... :blah:
you still have to buy the controller.
and if you happen to have a plethora of PS2 game controllers, like I do,
:p
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Just got the Thrustmaster gamepad today (2nd hand). The gamepad does not come with button mapping software (the manufacturer provides just the basic driver for download).
i end up have to look for 3rd party program. First the Xpadder, does not support 7-axis gamepad so failed to map the gamepad properly, money wasted...
2nd is Pinnacle Game Profiler, double price of Xpadder but it is working perfectly. The gamepad is supported with exact image in profiler.
Programmable buttons are 16, not bad huh. Not ergonomic if you ask me. L2, L3, R2, R3 are located at odd positions and not comfortable to reach. I still feel much better holding the old logitech cordless rumble pad.
Here the picture is . You ask me what the 2 motor-like items are ? Definitely my favourite to remove them from gamepad the first day - the vibrating motors. I don't need them no more. With this i removed also 40g of weight.
(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/iieeann/RunNdrive.jpg)
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i dont get why they use such large motors in game pads. it just needs to vibrate enough to give some feedback, not to cause a ****ing earthquake. motors 1/4 that size or less would suffice.
7 axis? does it have a throttle slider somewhere?
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i dont get why they use such large motors in game pads. it just needs to vibrate enough to give some feedback, not to cause a ****ing earthquake. motors 1/4 that size or less would suffice.
7 axis? does it have a throttle slider somewhere?
its a ps3 controller so it has all that motion stuff
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7 axis? does it have a throttle slider somewhere?
There is a progressive wheel near dpad. Slider under PC mode, XL axis under PS3
I map the wheel to 2 buttons function.
(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/iieeann/Forum%20-%20Others/Wheels.jpg)
Another 2 Trigger. XR & YR axis under PC. L2 & R2 under PS3
(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/iieeann/Forum%20-%20Others/Throttles.jpg)
L2 & R2 for PC is underneath the gamepad. Not sure the function for PS3
(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/iieeann/Forum%20-%20Others/L2R2s.jpg)
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Here the picture is . You ask me what the 2 motor-like items are ? Definitely my favourite to remove them from gamepad the first day - the vibrating motors. I don't need them no more. With this i removed also 40g of weight.
I thought motion vibration in controllers were mild electric jolts. I didn't expect them to use real motors. Real, big, heavy motors. I don't really like motion vibration that much anyway. It's an annoyance everywhere except on my phone, which is forever in Silent Mode.
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Q: do you love me
A: yes you do
why
behold the Veho Mimi MIMI-KEY-003
(http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1457/mimi003keyboardexp.jpg) (http://img337.imageshack.us/i/mimi003keyboardexp.jpg/)
User definable hot keys
Motion sensing air mouse
LED indicators for battery status
Trusty 8-way D-pad
Charging via mini USB port
HTPC supported
True wireless technology
Ergonomic gamepad with 2 analog joysticks and digital buttons
4 axis 10 fire buttons
Fully compatible, wirelessly control your PC, Mac or Linux machine
Plug and play, no drivers required
Up to 10 metres range depending on frequency
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/795/mimi003keyboardlg1.jpg) (http://img6.imageshack.us/i/mimi003keyboardlg1.jpg/)
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So uhh ... are those keys an elbow rest?
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That looks a lot like the 360 controller with the keypad add-on attached to it. Only worse.
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it looks painful to use.
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but the important thing is I win :D
ps: £64.99 if anyone wants one
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you cant win the internet. oh thats what it wants you to think. but it will never happen. what its doing is giving you a false sense of epicness, and then at its first chance it will chop you to bits and feed you to the trolls. STOP THE INTERNET BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!!!!!111111ONEONEONE
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omg that veho mimi gamepad is crazy, difference with the ps3 keyboard + gamepad is this one the keyboard at bottom and the ps3 on top.
weight is not mentioned anywhere at the website.
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I like my AirFlo EX. Good number of buttons, and that it can cool down your hands via fan. Probably not good with people who have sensitive skin, though. I am currently looking for a controller with more buttons, preferably 6 face buttons, and 6 shoulder triggers. The closest that I can find thus far is the Hori Pad Xbox360 EX 2 Turbo...try saying that five times! Only has four shoulder buttons, but that is still more than what I currently have.
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I am currently using this Saitek P2900, only 13 programmable buttons. 2005
(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/iieeann/Forum%20-%20Others/SaitekP2900.jpg)
Oh god, you must have bought this one because it was all you could get locally or something. I love saitek as much as the next guy, but they sucked when they tried to make a wireless gamepad. The reviews for it sucked, customers hated it. The wired version of this controller was perfection. The crappy wireless technology in it sucked.
I bought the logitech rumblepad 2. Which didn't lose out with the wireless receiver, had twice the battery life, and the win for me was that it wasn't as physically monstrous as the saitek (i have small hands). Still own it, it's just a generic ps2 for pc controller. But, i like others prefer the six face buttons.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/413GSXMP3ML.jpg)
The best six button facing gamepad i've ever used was the gravis xterminator gamepad. It had an 8 way pov hat, throttle slider, two analog left and right triggers, two digital triggers tucked under the controller, bla bla bla, plugged into a gameport with an adapter to usb. It was also a very ergonomic gamepad, and those two digital triggers underneath the gamepad were perfectly positioned for your middle fingers to push.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41MB957H1NL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
That veho looks like awkward crap. That chinese 25+ button one looks like sex in two hands (i'm buying it). And i must drop the hint bomb for revitalizing an xbox 360 controller as a pc gamepad. XBCD (http://redcl0ud.1.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=2155&st=0&#entry10286) right here, it lets you do anything and everything to your 360 controller except mapping keys (it's a different driver and also lets you change functionality of the controller like turning an analog trigger into the primary joystick x axis or whatever other things).
Great topic, i know some great suggestions to shop for now :yes:
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Q: do you love me
A: yes you do
why
behold the Veho Mimi MIMI-KEY-003
(http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1457/mimi003keyboardexp.jpg) (http://img337.imageshack.us/i/mimi003keyboardexp.jpg/)
User definable hot keys
Motion sensing air mouse
LED indicators for battery status
Trusty 8-way D-pad
Charging via mini USB port
HTPC supported
True wireless technology
Ergonomic gamepad with 2 analog joysticks and digital buttons
4 axis 10 fire buttons
Fully compatible, wirelessly control your PC, Mac or Linux machine
Plug and play, no drivers required
Up to 10 metres range depending on frequency
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/795/mimi003keyboardlg1.jpg) (http://img6.imageshack.us/i/mimi003keyboardlg1.jpg/)
Ah yes, but does it have a Kitchen Sink?
Seriously, I'm worried about people other than Asian descent that have fat thumbs (such as myself) not being able to press ONE key.
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(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/iieeann/Forum%20-%20Others/SaitekP2900.jpg)
The wired version of this controller was perfection.
Oh geez, I had a wired one and gave it away. I could never get used to it and I never even used it that often.
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Ironically the saitek wired's i only purchased 3 along with my logitech rumblepad for 4 player n64 emulation. I hardly touched them, and have sold them to other people a while ago (same story, they hardly got used). 4 player n64 emulation when it did happen was a blast though. I was interested in the saitek wireless version myself at first because saitek does make some great stuff. But, reviews and other people found it's wireless capability was just ****ty, so i didn't buy it.
I'm normally find logitech gamepads to be pretty bad, but the rumblepad 2 was actually great and a better product concerning the wireless aspect and battery life. My only gripe, is that with the 25+ button chinese controller...since it may not be that well known of a product, probably wont have any in depth reviews about performance, usage, etc. I do have a preference for wired technology as i don't need batteries then, but the logitech rumblepad 2, i replace the batteries like once a year (i also don't game that much).
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Did I hear you say you wanted buttons... we got yo buttons right here!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIu87lKxZsI
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I feel like it would have been cheater to get one's pilot license...and maybe buy an actual plane. :p
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beginning thread de-hibernation sequence.
i think the optimal controller would have to be an xbox360 with 8 more buttons. current version wastes 6 whole fingers where buttons could be placed. these fingers are middle, ring, and pinkie, x2. a button placed at the finger tip of each of these would net you another 6 buttons.
reason why this was not already implemented long ago when i absolutely was not speaking with a microsoft executive about getting into the console business? everyone has different size hands. why i nor he didn't think to make the buttons regional idk. that is to say why not make them very big and hard to miss no matter what shape or size your hand. of course not everyone has the same number of fingers either but u can't really help that much :/
reason why the 2 additional face buttons were removed: sony, Nintendo, and microsoft all wanted to compete for the same games. as such, they all colluded to have the same degree of control.
Nintendo moved well away from this after their flop with game cube. xbox is microsoft and extremely clunky business wise, nothing gets done at microsoft without being proven to work first i.e. reverse engineering someone else's stuff and then paraphrasing the code.
of course the last two buttons would be returning the two of the 6 face buttons thus making 8 more buttons for you.
another reason why buttons were limited to the basic 16, dumbasses wanted to be able to compete and didn't want to have 22+ things to think about :/
how do we unf25k these problems? do we need to show up at an e3 in mass to confront console developers so we can get our PC controller's? i don't think that's gonnah work. ideas anyone?
oh and that progressive switch on that dpad is a nice feature. toss that in for a total of 10 additional buttons and you could feasibly play any mmo or anything else for that matter.
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I have a HOTAS with 32 buttons and 9 axes, and that's without even touching the CH Control Manager used by their controllers. If you play around with the manager, you could get something like 176 assignable "buttons" and 36 axes, any of which could be turned into 3 "buttons", giving you 284 assignable functions total. Enough? :)
I wonder if even that Keyboard-gamepad could beat that.
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Hands On Throttle-And-Stick
this is really neither here nor there m8y as a joy and peddle are at no time fitting for the thread titled "PC gamepad with lots and lots of buttons?"
btw the keyboard one is useless. it's sacrificed all hands on control for mediocre control and mediocre keyboard control. it's just stupid.
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My intent was more to show superiority of a good HOTAS over all gamepads presented here, at least when it comes to buttons. :)
Besides, aside from some flight sims, you're never going to use that many buttons. I've assigned 32 buttons to FS2 and that's more than enough, I only use about 10-16 in combat, at most (the latter figure is with all additional features like glide enabled). For most games, you don't need a large number of buttons (in fact, aside from FreeFalcon, everything I played could be played using a keyboard and and old, 7-button WingMan Force 3D).
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try an mmo some time.
as far as superiority goes, not there, can you take your hotas and use it in any other position than seated at a desk? could u use it while laying on your back with a laptop on yer chest? are every single one of those 16 buttons at your fingertips or as far as a finger moves? as far as it goes Superior control is a game pad. only exception being a mouse which lets you make much finer movements than mapping a mouse to a mini joy. and even that is easily corrected with a little experience and a kontrol freak which lets you dial up the sensitivity without losing any control.
please keep the hotas in the hotas thread not the gamepad thread, thx.
of course all these pads are pretty sucky, that's our point. these are all poor excuses for what could be but thats just do to idiot developers. gamepads could be so much more.
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are every single one of those 16 buttons at your fingertips or as far as a finger moves?
Yes.
While other complaints are valid (though most gaming computers that you'd buy HOTAS for are not laptops anyway), only 4 buttons and one axis (throttle wheel on joystick, which I don't ussualy use) need more than a slight movement of one finger. CH HOTAS set relies on HAT switches to accomplish that, and it's a great solution (also used in real aircraft, by the way).
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sec i think i should say, are all 16 of those buttons and a mouse at your fingertips without having to change the postion of your hand or otherwise chainging your grip angle.
adding another 10 buttons for pc gamepads is a just a good idea. no reason not to.
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My intent was more to show superiority of a good HOTAS over all gamepads presented here, at least when it comes to buttons. :)
You see here, this is when most people would ***** at me.