Author Topic: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"  (Read 373993 times)

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Offline Nuke

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
im still not sure how to use the sync orbit thing the game comes with. but ive been doing it manually for some time now. its all about the difference in the orbital period between the 2 objects. if you need to catch up to the target, you need to decrease your orbital period to be lower than that of the target. all you need to do is lower your orbit a little and wait. if you overshoot, you need to increse your orbital period by making it bigger, and again wait till it catches up to you. once im within about 5 clicks of the target i match speed with it. just set it as your target and then burn in the direction of the retrograde cross-hair till your relative velocity is 0, then point the ship at the target and fire your buners. a good approach speed is 10m/s (if your using ion engines you might need to use less speed because changing velocity takes forever). if your in a fast manuverable ship and you are an impatient ****, feel free to gun it (this is the violently introduced shortcut for loosers, referenced in arcturus's shipwrecked frontier pioneer). after that begin docking manuvers.

for docking set the view to chase (unless you have a badass view of the docking port like i do in my station builder of doom), reduce speed to some small amount that your rcs system can nullify (rcs thrusters have horrible specific impulse so just use your main engine until you are close and slow). then switch to docking input mode. try to lign up with the docking port, then switch to linear. then just keep your prograde reticle over the purple blip on your nav ball that represents the station. you may need to tweak your rotation at the last minute. just remember small manuvers are all you need. get close and you dock automagically. its not like in orbiter where you got badass instrumentation to help you out, but you got to do it all on manual.
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Offline watsisname

Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
My first docking experience was incredibad.  Having never bothered to use RCS before, I just randomly slapped a few thrusters on my ship like an idiot, thinking it would work okay.  It did NOT work okay.  Want to slide up?  NOPE.  Let's go like 60° left of up instead!  Go forward?  No thanks, let's start spinning around instead!  Did I mention I've never used RCS before...?  This is greaaaat!

Well eventually I did relearn how to fly, and with very careful management of both linear and rotational modes (and a lot of punching the ship in the right direction), I somehow managed to ram into the docking port and the game went 'CLOSE ENOUGH". :P  Best space flight ever.
In my world of sleepers, everything will be erased.
I'll be your religion, your only endless ideal.
Slowly we crawl in the dark.
Swallowed by the seductive night.

 
Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
Remarkably, that stupid-huge rescue craft has made it to Ikian orbit, with all its bits still attached, save for spent stages.  Fuel levels look promising for the return trip too, though I'm hoping that the lander will have some surplus, upon its return to the transit stage, to serve as a margin for error.

The only thing really in question, then, is finding a good (flat) spot to set down the lander and the rover and actually carrying out the rescue.  I'll have plenty of time to address those open issues, the next time I get some KSP time, since the sun was just setting on the stranded oiler, when I finished circularizing the rescue craft's orbit.  Given how long the rescue ship has been underway, I don't think that either crew is going to be particularly bothered by one more day of waiting.

 

Offline Starman01

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
So, finally I tried this game myself. Tried the demo only a few minutes and then picked the complete game right away, it's just awesome and hillarious :D

I played with it a few hours, yet I do not reach stable orbit, only really big ballistic flight paths, though that's just because I simply speed up too much.

But I can't remember when I had so much fun and laughs with just such a "simple" game..... 3 of my guys in a standard control pod (no storage or moduls attached )are currently orbiting the sun in a few million mile radius because I accelered them so much that I catapulted them out of orbit and Eve's gravity    :lol: Dunno if they are still alive (but afaik the Kerbals can't die, or only in exlosions). Maybe, when I'm better I manage to rescue them, but I doubt i can dock and they have a speed of +9000 m/s 

The biggest laugh was a huge rocket I build with 3 stages, and on the lower I had 5 external solidfuel boosters. When launching the boosters, they rip themself from the rocket, immediately crashing into the middle of the rocket (one missed and just flow away vertically a few miles), the big rocket brakes apart and fall to the ground while I was hitting "space" and activating the other engines, which makes the upper rocket part slide over the ground before everything explodes..... That view, together with the 3 paniced faces of the kerbals nearly made me wet myself... :lol: :lol:

I just love this game !!!
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Offline newman

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
Maybe, when I'm better I manage to rescue them, but I doubt i can dock and they have a speed of +9000 m/s 

Oh, it's definitely doable. If the ship that needs rescuing has a docking port it might even be possible to get it back home (as opposed to just transferring the crew to the rescue craft), provided you can build something with enough fuel to loan some to the stranded ship. You could build a dockable unmanned tanker / solar probe combo, for example. Once it intercepts your stranded ship, it gives all of it's remaining fuel to it and remains as an unmanned solar probe, while the kerbonauts blast on home. That's what I like about this game - there's always options, some of them crazy, and it's totally gratifying when they actually work :)
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb

 

Offline crizza

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
I actually never figured out how fuel transfer worked^^

 

Offline Starman01

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
Quote
If the ship that needs rescuing has a docking port

Well, it hasn't, and no engine neither :) Just the capsule with a parachute  :p  Guess they will become a memorial manifest for the kerbal space programm for the next million of years :)

However, I just saw a video on youtube about one guy landing a fantastic designed spacestation on the moon. It has some huge "robot arms"..... These would be the only solution, If I managed to get a vessel there, grab the capsule, fly them home and drop them into orbit, then they could land with their own parachute.

Sounds like a plan .... but first I need to learn how to reach orbit correctly. Have to learn speedmanagent, I'm using way to much speed. Found a good tutorial, have to try that.
MECHCOMMANDER OMNITECH

9 out of 10 voices in my head always tell me that I'm not insane. The 10th is only humming the melody of TETRIS.

  

Offline newman

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
Well, it hasn't, and no engine neither :) Just the capsule with a parachute  :p  Guess they will become a memorial manifest for the kerbal space programm for the next million of years :)

Or you could launch a rescue vehicle with enough room for that crew too, and just EVA over there.


I actually never figured out how fuel transfer worked^^

KSP is getting more complex with every iteration, and the need for some kind of an interactive tutorial is becoming greater. Fuel transfer is simple, but not that obvious if you didn't happen to find the info online. What you do is, you alt-right click both tanks. You should get the "In" and "Out" buttons on both tanks and can transfer fuel. Obviously, for this to work the ships need to be docked to one another. In general, right now most (if not all) parts allow for fuel crossfeed so it doesn't matter where the docking ports in relation to fuel tanks are - if the ships are docked fuel transfer will work.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 08:34:33 am by newman »
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb

 

Offline Turey

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
KSP is getting more complex with every iteration, and the need for some kind of an interactive tutorial is becoming greater. Fuel transfer is simple, but not that obvious if you didn't happen to find the info online. What you do is, you alt-right click both tanks. You should get the "In" and "Out" buttons on both tanks and can transfer fuel. Obviously, for this to work the ships need to be docked to one another. In general, right now most (if not all) parts allow for fuel crossfeed so it doesn't matter where the docking ports in relation to fuel tanks are - if the ships are docked fuel transfer will work.
I'm fairly certain any tank can transfer fuel to any other tank on the same vehicle/set of connected vehicles. I use a fair number of non-crossfeed compatible parts and I'm pretty sure I've transferred fuel across them.

There's also a training section now for learning the basics, but it needs to be expanded.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 12:52:11 pm by Turey »
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Offline watsisname

Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
I'm fairly certain any tank can transfer fuel to any other tank on the same vehicle/set of connected vehicles. I use a fair number of non-crossfeed compatible parts and I'm pretty sure I've transferred fuel across them.

Yep, it indeed works this way; quite handy. :)

I'm happy to say that I finished the main structure of my first space station, at least the first station that I feel proud of (preceding efforts were very lulz-worthy failures).  Since my motif for this game file is that of Descent's Post Terran Kerban Mining Corporation, the station is named Shiva.  All it needs now is some fuel storage underneath the main hub area.  And for once I did not forget to add floodlights!


« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 01:46:07 pm by watsisname »
In my world of sleepers, everything will be erased.
I'll be your religion, your only endless ideal.
Slowly we crawl in the dark.
Swallowed by the seductive night.

 
Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
This rescue operation has turned into a shambles.

As with my rescue rover for retrieving parachuted craft on Kerbin, this rover had a very long nose, with the probe core at the front.  Also like the rescue rover on Kerbin, this one knocked its ****ing nose off, the first time it reached the bottom of a remotely steep slope.

Well, fine.  I'll just have to be careful to put the lander down closer to the stranded oiler.  This I managed fairly well, setting down within about four kilometers of my target.  Unfortunately, because of the position of the fuel tank, the lander is a top-heavy beast and won't stand upright on the slope on which it touched down.  I've thus far had no success righting the lander, because of those structural gantries still dangling off of the engine pods.  On the bright side, I've knocked off one of its two solar panels.  Wait....  That's not a bright side at all.

To rescue the rescue mission (yes, we're at that point), I sent one of the oiler's crew flying out to the rover, which still had a three-man command capsule attached, via EVA pack.  He's now carefully driving the rover back to the lander, where he will hopefully be able to use the rover's tapered front end and retractable wheels to give the lander enough of a boost to right itself with RCS thrusters.

If this doesn't work out, then I'll be sending the interplanetary stage back to Kerbin, empty-handed, and the boys back home will be having a rethink about the rescue ship.  Meanwhile, the Kerbonauts stuck on Ike will just have to enjoy their new-ish, busted toys for another year, while waiting for the next rescue attempt.

 

Offline newman

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
Pics or it didn't happen :P
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb

 

Offline Bob-san

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
See? That's what happens when you load the command capsules with booze, weed, & munchies! You get drunk, high, fat kerbanauts!
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Offline Nuke

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
what? no hookers?
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 
Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
Pics or it didn't happen :P

...

Hey, like Vegas, what happens in the Kerbal solar system.....gets out almost immediately, because every character assassin and their mother has a cellphone camera.  Huh.  Dammit.

Picking up from where the last batch of screenshots left off, there was no specific refueling port on the interplanetary stage, so I needed to park the lander and rover assembly to use the docking port on the interplanetary stage's nose.  Incidentally, after refueling this beast, the fuel depot is almost empty again.



The flight to Duna was uneventful.



I was planning on doing an aerobraking maneuver to capture, without having to use fuel to burn off all of my speed, but as I was plotting out the maneuver, I got a lucky encounter with Ike, before my Duna-periapsis dropped into the atmosphere.  Rather than capturing over Duna, transfering, and capturing again over Ike, I decided to just use that lucky encounter, doing the one partial capture and the final capture over Ike.



After waiting for sunrise over the stranded oiler, it was time to split up the ship and drop the lander.  I'll mention at this point that a side-effect of the structural girders is that, after all of the outer engines and fuel tanks have been dropped, they do help kill the rocket's resemblence to a giant sex toy.



It got exactly one-and-a-half kilometers before knocking its nose off.  (Incidentally, this demonstrates why, in biology, there may be evolutionary selection against an organism growing its brain in its nose.)



Right, let's get the lander down, close to target, then.



By the fair and scientific process of "Not it," Lanbald Kerman was chosen to fly out to the rover to try to salvage this mission.



The drive was tricky, because there is no position in which those landing legs stop dragging on the ground, but it turns out that there's a certain correlation between being slow to say, "Not it," and being a decent driver.  Lanbald managed to ride on two wheels in a couple stretches to get his speed up, and recovered from some pretty stupid sick flips.  He even got where he was going alive!  Think about that, the next time you shove that bloke into the center seat in the back of your car.  :P



Unfortunately, the rover's nose was too blunted, after losing the probe core, to get underneath any part of the lander.  I tried pushing the lander backwards, down the hill to see if supplementing the RCS with some momentum would do the trick, but all that accomplished was getting the lander further down the hill.  ...  Okay, the docking port got sheared off as well.



With that, then, it was time to send Lanbald back to the oiler and the interplanetary vehicle back to Kerbin.



Upon return, though, Nelfurt Kerman noticed something about my planned aerobraking maneuver that I did not.



Even if you're going four kilometers a second on entry, a twenty-five kilometer periapsis is too low to recover an orbit.

On the bright side, I don't have to rescue those Kerbonauts.  I also don't have to listen to Nelfurt's smug, "I told you so."  Heh.  Joke's on you, asshole.

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
I very much approve of the smaller pictures you used in your post.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
i decided to put some more work into my battlestar-analogue. moving girders around wasnt all that interesting. just a bunch of floating metal bits of varying dregrees of completion. a major issue thus far is i havent had a clue what my mega-ship is going to look like when its done. in an effort to do away with such abiguity i decided to work on something that is recognizable in a very large space craft. engines! im going with large nerva clusters. in the past i had used ion clusters. but military craft are seldom designed for economy. its gonna be a gas guzzler. heres one of the engine pods on the pads, ready for boosing:

amd do give you an idea about its thrust here it is pulling off the final trim burn to orbit. these things ended up with way too much fuel in the boosters, and i ended up with considerable fuel left over to bring them all together.

thats right im going to be connecting four of these together and building my starship on the front end of it. with that much thrust it soon becomes clear the size of the monstrosity that i am building. here we are connecting the first one to the central interconnect assembly.

i really hate these lateral docking maneuvers. first of all the ship has an unbalanced rcs layout. i decided on a design that included a light tug to provide the neccisary maneuverability, where the engines themselves provide the main propulsion, and a small amount of fuel for the rendezvous maneuver (it turned out to be way too much). instead of placing any thusters on the engine pods themselves to place them at the end of long booms to give me a little bit pore torque, which is just enough to provide adequate lateral and vertical translation. it worked for the most part but it took every ounce of skill i had.

after that things started acting weird. my tugs decided to self destruct shortly after docking. the stayputnik at the front of one of the docked tugs came off for no apparent reason. figuring that i only needed one or two i considered this an acceptable loss. i was still able to siphon off the fuel before getting rid of the dead tugs.

another hard as **** lateral docking manuver, i think this one was easier because of additional rcs thrusters. and the final bit, you can see i lost another stayputnik, also for unknown reason.

finally i finished the drive module. you can see i lost another stayputnik, and im not sure what happened to the interconnect tug either.

and there you have it, next task is to bring the whole assembly to the construction yard, which is a little spread out at the moment. need to get all my bits together to finish the construction. i think what im going to do is attach the fuel directly to the engine pods, as that will be most of the weight. the command section will be on the central keel, as will most of the rcs system. so i kind of have an idea of what im doing now.
 



I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline newman

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
Anything with any sort of command module is considered a ship (anything that gets ditched without it is either "debris" or "unknown"). So maybe too much command modules confuses the frak out of the game and things start falling apart? Just a wild guess here.
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb

 

Offline watsisname

Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
I've seen many people build space stations with a bunch of command modules in them with no apparent ill effects, though nuke is using quite a few more of them than I've typically seen, so who knows.  Maybe it's a lesser form of the Space Cthulhu?
In my world of sleepers, everything will be erased.
I'll be your religion, your only endless ideal.
Slowly we crawl in the dark.
Swallowed by the seductive night.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
even when this thing is done its going to need landing craft, fuel tugs to manage tankage, probes, etc. so there will be a lot of differentvehicles attatched to the ship. each of those 5 sections had its own tug and 5 of them blew up. but i think this is a common issue with the stayputnik pod.

im kinda concerned that the fact that you cannot connect a part assembly at 2 points to another assembly (at least i dont think you can). this prevents you from doing any serious structural design. just hook everything up to a center keel and hope for the best.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN