[FrikgFeek]

To be fair, maybe like 3 people in this thread actually like SC. And the very first post in this thread after the OP was Aesaar disliking SC. This thread has been about bashing SC since page 1. If you want a circlejerk where everyone can share their delusions about SC being good you can find it on reddit.

[Det. Bullock]

If you are already "snapping physics over your knee" then why simulate Gs?

I think that was kind of NGTM-1R's point. It would be like someone making Freespace and deciding that since space is a vacuum they shouldn't bother with any sounds. If you've already decided to go with a WW1 Planes but in Space approach to dogfighting, it's pretty silly to start going with real world physics rather than just continuing on Rule of Cool.

My bad then, my chronic lack of sleep strikes again.
ì

[Scotty]

the best way to understand what makes games like freespace and elite truly great is to look at the failings of games like star citizen

Star Citizen isnt out yet.

Which makes its badness extra impressive.

[NGTM-1R]

Star Citizen isnt out yet.

And is already failing catastrophically through its testing phase, never getting better.

[666maslo666]

It does seem a bit stupid to have 0.2 lightspeed travel happen within seconds but still have to worry about pulling single-digit Gs.

Possible in-universe explanation of this in SC is that intertial dampeners have problems with changing the dampening field quickly. So damping a straight continuous acceleration is easy, damping combat maneuvering is hard.

[666maslo666]

If you are already "snapping physics over your knee" then why simulate Gs?
If someone wants a real hardcore spacesim there's Orbiter: http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/

Because neither Orbiter nor KSP even have space combat. They are not alternatives to Star Citizen, period. Star Citizen as a newtonian space combat sim fills that hole in the market between casual space sims that dont even try to have realistic flight model, and full simulations such as Orbiter or KSP that have things like orbits and dont even have combat. There is no other triple A game that does what SC does.

[666maslo666]

As usual maslo has entirely detached himself from reality, in which he linked to a video of one fighter almost continuously shooting another for five minutes straight despite whatever evasive action was taking place.

Only some minor part of the shots connect, because the other fighter is moving a lot. It is not continuous shooting at all.

[666maslo666]

Star Citizen Alpha patch 2.2 has been released to live. Highlights:

- reputation/hostility system
- party system
- flyable Sabre fighter
- physicalised EVA
- new walking and running animations with jukes
- first iteration of new component/ship customization system with ship cooler components
- increased number of players from 16 to 24

[karajorma]

Possible in-universe explanation of this in SC is that intertial dampeners have problems with changing the dampening field quickly. So damping a straight continuous acceleration is easy, damping combat maneuvering is hard.

When you're having to come up with in-universe explanations like that, it's time to admit that the reason the feature exists is nothing to do with realism. You don't have G-forces cause they are realistic in the universe. You have them because the devs wanted them.

You can't defend them in the way an F16 sim can by saying they're realistic any more. So the question is simply, will simulation of G-forces improve the game? I think Sushi has already explained why they won't.

[Sushi]

I actually think blacking out on extreme maneuvers is a good idea... but they have to kick in only for the very most wild and sustained stuff, not every time you want to do reasonably well in a fight. Plenty of flight sims use blackout/redout and manage to be fun. Just tweaking the thresholds and/or the visual filters is probably enough to take it from "really annoying and nauseating" to "interesting game mechanic."

[Unknown Target]

If you are already "snapping physics over your knee" then why simulate Gs?
If someone wants a real hardcore spacesim there's Orbiter: http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/

Because neither Orbiter nor KSP even have space combat. They are not alternatives to Star Citizen, period. Star Citizen as a newtonian space combat sim fills that hole in the market between casual space sims that dont even try to have realistic flight model, and full simulations such as Orbiter or KSP that have things like orbits and dont even have combat. There is no other triple A game that does what SC does.

But...Elite is newtonian as well...

P.S. What other AAA space sims have come out recently besides Elite & Star Citizen?

[666maslo666]

But...Elite is newtonian as well...

No, with that artificial yaw limit it is not. It may have inertia but it also goes out of its way to not play like a Newtonian space sim but more like an aeroplane simulator game instead. In a true newtonian space sim, there is little distinction between yaw and pitch and thus little incentive to use roll. Contrary to aeronautic simulators where it is crucial to use wing flaps or whatever to rotate and so yawing is not optimal. This leads to quite different play style. And Elite goes for this plane sim crowd. Which is fine I guess, it can also be fun to play for some people, but it doesnt scratch that Newtonian space sim itch for me. SC does.

[Det. Bullock]

If you are already "snapping physics over your knee" then why simulate Gs?
If someone wants a real hardcore spacesim there's Orbiter: http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/

Because neither Orbiter nor KSP even have space combat. They are not alternatives to Star Citizen, period. Star Citizen as a newtonian space combat sim fills that hole in the market between casual space sims that dont even try to have realistic flight model, and full simulations such as Orbiter or KSP that have things like orbits and dont even have combat. There is no other triple A game that does what SC does.

Spacesims have always been more "casual" than other simulators and that is because of their simplified flight models but they had complex targeting and ship management systems at yur fingertips while for some reason SC wants to have an overcomplex "realistic" flight model but puts obstacles to advanced energy management by hiding it inside menus not unlike Roberts' old Wing Commander games which were much more "arcade" than other similar games like X-wing or, for that matter, Freespace.

[Unknown Target]

But...Elite is newtonian as well...

No, with that artificial yaw limit it is not. It may have inertia but it also goes out of its way to not play like a Newtonian space sim but more like an aeroplane simulator game instead. In a true newtonian space sim, there is little distinction between yaw and pitch and thus little incentive to use roll. Contrary to aeronautic simulators where it is crucial to use wing flaps or whatever to rotate and so yawing is not optimal. This leads to quite different play style. And Elite goes for this plane sim crowd. Which is fine I guess, it can also be fun to play for some people, but it doesnt scratch that Newtonian space sim itch for me. SC does.

So...you know nothing about how planes fly. So let's get that out of the way first. So when you say it caters to the flight sim crowd because you use roll as the most predominant axis, you don't really know what you're talking about.

Second, you can counter the limited yaw by rolling to the side, and thrusting downwards and pulling back, giving you a very tight turn radius.

Thirdly, it's great that SC scratches that itch for you, but for me it looks like a very weak combat sim. Plus I can't even play it, since the code is so poorly optimized I can't even run it on my system yet. So whenever they fix that, maybe I'll check it out. But so far that video you posted looks "floaty" (in the sense that none of the ships have mass), so it looks more like Descent than a Newtonian simulator. Just because you can yaw fast and fly backwards doesn't really make it a great space sim, but to each their own.

[FrikgFeek]

It looks like a circle strafe simulator tbh. Basically DooM IN SPACE. When you've got side-thrusters as powerful as the main thruster there's no reason to bother with actual dogfighting or 3D manoeuvring as you can always travel where you want to while keeping your guns pointed at your target.

[Unknown Target]

To which game are you referring FrikgFreek? Could you explain a little more clearly?

[FrikgFeek]

SC, obviously.

[Phantom Hoover]

I really want to live in this parallel world that maslo inhabits where airplanes regularly fly backwards and off-axis and make extensive use of vertical thrust. Commuter flights sound so much more fun.

[MikeRoz]

I really want to live in this parallel world that Phantom Hoover inhabits where spaceships have arbitrary speed limits and corner better when their velocity is at ~50% of that maximum.

[Phantom Hoover]

it's pretty great, much better than the newtonian one where everything's an autonomous kinetic kill vehicle