[PsychoLandlord]

Does the UEF even have a tenable long-term aim, militarily? I understand that most of the UEF leadership is pushing solely for diplomatic resolutions, but for those hardliners, like Calder, do they really have an actual objective? They cant win. They GTVA has installed a Backdoor to the Sol system, Kicked it in, and theres no way for Sol to get rid of it, short of collapsing it again. They cant invade, they cant hold it, as the Tevs wouldn't give them time to entrench (and they can just fry close blockades with Area-Denial Meson weapons, as was stated above,) and if they back off to allow for not being simply annihilated, as soon as the GTVA wants back in, then they have the room they need to simply disperse back into the system again, even if the UEF does somehow drive them out in the first place.

I cant help but feel that for all their tenacity, the minds behind the Wargods don't really have any sort of actual plan, beyond hoping that the folks back home in the Tev systems get sick of the war. That seems like a flimsy thing to base your entire strategy off of.

[General Battuta]

I cant help but feel that for all their tenacity, the minds behind the Wargods don't really have any sort of actual plan, beyond hoping that the folks back home in the Tev systems get sick of the war. That seems like a flimsy thing to base your entire strategy off of.

It's won a few wars, and the longer the war goes on, the better the chances.

In the short term their goal was to McClellan Steele.

[PsychoLandlord]

It's won a few wars, and the longer the war goes on, the better the chances.

Oh, undoubtedly, but thats still an incredibly finicky variable, even by the standards of Warfare. One would hope that Calder and Mars-guy (Curse my memory) have some sort of tangible goal in terms of military action. However...

In the short term their goal was to McClellan Steele.

This....this makes more sense. If only because doing so would set the GTVA admiralty back on it's heels, and would cement Calder and his buddy as gods among tacticians.

[General Battuta]

Poor Netreba. Always forgotten.

[SpardaSon21]

Netreba doesn't have a tech room entry, which is probably why.

[General Battuta]

For the interested!

Kyle Netreba is the current Commander In Chief of 2nd Fleet Mars. Among the triumvirate that commands the UEF Navy, he is the least "military" officer. Originally trained as an engineering specialist (software subspecialty), he switched to the command track after he demonstrated good leadership skills during an incident in which he had to take command of a frigate after its command staff died during combat. His market-based algorithms for logistical handling earned him the praise of the Council of Elders, a lasting relationship with scientist-elder Svetlana Henriksson, and eventually a place in the Admiralty.
His leadership style is unorthodox. He has structured his command less like a traditional fleet, and more like a design bureau, hand-selecting 2 Fleet's ship captains for their ability to think and act independently. Yet the outbreak of the war saw an abrupt shift in his disciplinary approach, including crackdowns on traditionally lax Martian standards. Some suspect Netreba sought advice from Admiral Calder on wartime conduct.

During the war against the GTVA, Netreba found himself in a difficult position. Calder and Byrne used his fleet as a reserve asset pool for their own very different priorities, and Netreba feels increasingly dissatisfied with this position. His cooperation has not always been rewarded, either in terms of assets for his own OrBat or rest and repair time for his crews and ships. Between having to guard assets that are nominally in 1st Fleet's remit, and supporting offensive actions by 3rd Fleet, his own command and the abilities of the people within it are being wasted, a state of affairs that he feels threatens 2 Fleet's effectiveness as a unit.

While the Admiral is unsatisfied with Admiral Byrne's strategic directives, and much more comfortable with Admiral Calders' aggressive strategies, his ability to work with Admiral Calder is limited. Given their vast differences in command styles, this comes as no surprise. Where 2 Fleet relies on each element acting independently in support of a broad strategy, the Jovian Rim Fleet relies on detailed pre-battle planning and pre-rehearsed maneuvers that can be executed with a minimum of forethought. Whether or not the two commands can overcome these structural differences and produce results when acting in concert will probably be one of the deciding factors in determining the war's outcome.

[Rodo]

LOL! I thought Netreba was a woman!

Well at least I DID remember her/his name.

[PsychoLandlord]

I knew Netreba was a man, but he had nowhere near as much presence as either Calder or Byrne. Though, to be fair, I remembered the admirals by their ships for the most part, save for Steele.

[Scotty]

Every last confirmed ship in Sol, just prior to the Artemis attack


I understand that, but GTVA ships must be very powerful indeed for that to be a possibility. Even with crazy losses to the Jovian Fleet, the Sol forces still outnumber the TEVs severely.

EDIT:
The Arcane is with the 13th because it was the only confirmed ship still remaining from the 16th.

Also, the Sanctus has got to be the most produced ship ever.

This picture is missing one Leviathan and one Charybdis on the GTVA side. /lolminornitpick

(And one Diomedes, but that's semi-confirmed at best) You remembered the Arcane! <3

[Mars]

I don't think I am missing a Leviathan, I think there were three.

I didn't put any non combatants, ECM units are not included.

EDIT:

You're right, one of the Levis is MIA, I did put it in there though. It's probably inside the Carthage.

[Mars]

So here's some interesting numbers:
So, assuming 3000 crew on a Karuna (Collateral Damage), 5000 on a Narayana (Collateral Damage), 1000 on a Sanctus (The Cost of War), and 10,000 on a Solaris (the number that seems to always get thrown out for destroyers)


3000(21) + 5000(14) + 10000(3) + 1000(60) = 223,000

I'm off a few Sancti, but the UEF armada has around a quarter million people on ships.

[General Battuta]

Probably lots more than that on installations and various non-shipboard duties.

[Jellyfish]

[of Netreba]

Yet, Calder lost Jupiter, Byrne almost loses Earth, and Mars remains in Netreba's hands. Perhaps it is because Mars is a relatively low strategic value target?

[MatthTheGeek]

They GTVA has installed a Backdoor to the Sol system, Kicked it in, and theres no way for Sol to get rid of it, short of collapsing it again. They cant invade, they cant hold it, as the Tevs wouldn't give them time to entrench (and they can just fry close blockades with Area-Denial Meson weapons, as was stated above,)

Once you manage to control the node and you have driven back the GTVA from Sol, put 4 Naras at max range of the node. Negates the advantage of meson bombs.

[Pred the Penguin]

Wasn't the Knossos copy horribly expensive to create? I can't see the Tevs letting all that money go to waste.

Indeed. Though the GTVA has to balance their desire to take Sol's infrastructure with their strategic need to degrade that infrastructure - a balance that tipped sharply towards 'wreck' when Steele arrived with his plan to end the war rapidly.

It's not as if the UEF has only persisted this long at the GTVA's sufferance. The GTVA could have piled ten or twenty destroyers into the system at the start of the war, and the result would've been a mutual bloodbath, with the UEF having the subspace tracking advantage required to drop their bomber wings right down destroyers' throats, the GTVA shock-jumping everything it could find, and the two faction's air wings shredding each other. It would have been over soon, and the GTVA probably would have been victorious, but the cost would have been staggering, including, most likely, the best of the GTVA's equipment and personnel.

Both sides misunderstood the strategic intent and tactical capabilities of the other - something that comes up again and again in the history of war. (In fact, one of the marked statistical trends in the history of warfare is the overconfidence of aggressors, something I had the distinct pleasure to write a lengthy paper on at one point.)

That scenario reminds me slightly of the Battle of Tannenberg (WW1). Proves your point well I guess.

[The E]

Yet, Calder lost Jupiter, Byrne almost loses Earth, and Mars remains in Netreba's hands. Perhaps it is because Mars is a relatively low strategic value target?

No, it's definitely not. Among other things, Mars is home to the Bradbury Fleet Yards, which are the shipyards that built the Solaris class.

But the problem was, before the Tevs could take Mars, they had to take Jupiter first, and Steele, well.... He's the kind of guy who has no problems going straight for the throat if he sees an opening. So he bypassed Mars and attacked Earth directly, but remember that the only reason the assault on Rheza is so light in terms of capital ships is because all of them are tied up keeping the Eris and Solaris busy.

[Mars]

I realized that I might be missing the entire 16th battlgroup - so there could be up to 7 more corvettes, and 4 or 5 more cruisers on the Tev side.

[Dilmah G]

Netreba doesn't have a tech room entry, which is probably why.

I was meant to fix this. :S

Also, for those interested, the tech room entries on the other UEF Admirals have a little bit on the military goings on prior to the war. One of them was even decorated for his conduct in such actions.

[Scotty]

I realized that I might be missing the entire 16th battlgroup - so there could be up to 7 more corvettes, and 4 or 5 more cruisers on the Tev side.

It's likely the 16th retreated with the Requiem (and possibly a second 16th BG destroyer?  Not sure if there is one) when it was ambushed and forced to withdraw.

[Mars]

Netreba doesn't have a tech room entry, which is probably why.

I was meant to fix this. :S

Also, for those interested, the tech room entries on the other UEF Admirals have a little bit on the military goings on prior to the war. One of them was even decorated for his conduct in such actions.

The detailed information is also in the tech room in game.