Author Topic: The Great Darkness (major spoilers)  (Read 43250 times)

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Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
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Re: The Great Darkness (major spoilers)
Quote
"external heuristic injection: mandate node severance fallback. force binary isolation/extinction outcome"

Interpreting this as Earth is curious to me, because it seems to speak to a different mystery stretching back to the canon.

Bosch said we had "no future" with the Vasudans. One of the only other known instances of real Human-Shivan communication and cooperation (the Hades and related GTI shenanigans) resulted in an attempt to destroy the Vasudans. So I think the purpose wasn't to destroy Earth or isolate it. It was to destroy Earth or isolate it from the Vasudans.

It might also be related to the Summed Psyche's kill order. The formerly safely isolated Earth system is now increasing contaminated by Vasudans and there is no foreseeable outcome to the war that doesn't involve lots of them visiting and contamination of either physical or cultural sorts.

I don't know (and actually kind of doubt it is) if that contamination is actually directly dangerous to humans, but it may pose a long-term threat to the Shivan-Vishnan dynamic to have a joint partnership that could, someday, replace them. They want to replace a lost race. They don't know what to do with two.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 06:40:56 pm by NGTM-1R »
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline crizza

  • 210
Re: The Great Darkness (major spoilers)
I thought the kill order was ordered after the war escalated?
What if the 14th would have defected wholesale? Could they hold the node so long that the Feds move a long range blockade in?
Wouldn't the Kill order given if Sol remained save?

I for my part thought the
Spoiler:
external heuristic injection: mandate node severance fallback. force binary isolation/extinction outcome
refered to Capella...should've looked what node I accessed.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: The Great Darkness (major spoilers)
One of the only other known instances of real Human-Shivan communication and cooperation (the Hades and related GTI shenanigans)
Communication possibly, but cooperation ? Wat ?

The GTI never allied with Shivans. They used, studied and possibly replicated Shivan tech. I doubt captured Shivan specimens had any role at all in the Hades rebellion beyond being Yet Another GTI Experiment.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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Offline Shivan Hunter

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Re: The Great Darkness (major spoilers)
The Idun Dictionary came from GTI research on Shivan specimens and Nagari. GTI named the Nagari process. It is certain that the Hades Rebellion had something to do with their Nagari research, and probable that it had something to do with some GTI communication with Shivans (We don't know that they were cooperating with Shivans, but they definitely had contact and were therefore at least influenced by Shivans).

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
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Re: The Great Darkness (major spoilers)
The Idun Dictionary came from GTI research on Shivan specimens and Nagari. GTI named the Nagari process.
Yes.

It is certain that the Hades Rebellion had something to do with their Nagari research, and probable that it had something to do with some GTI communication with Shivans (We don't know that they were cooperating with Shivans, but they definitely had contact and were therefore at least influenced by Shivans).
Now where does that come from.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Mod management tools     -     Wiki stuff!     -     Help us help you

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Re: The Great Darkness (major spoilers)
The GTI never allied with Shivans.

The wing of fully functional Seraphim (unlike your broken-down ****ty Dragon in Playing Judas) the Hades launched says no.

Besides, you're making an interesting assumption about the nature of the relationship. GTI did not ally with the Shivans; the Shivans that GTI had in custody for whatever reason worked for GTI. That's a fairly solid fact given the command briefs from Silent Threat and the mere existence of the Hades.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline Shivan Hunter

  • 210
  • FRED needs lambdas!
Re: The Great Darkness (major spoilers)
The GTI Rebellion was based on the GTI's extensive use of Shivan technology (or was the Hades not an attempt at replicating the Lucifer?). This alone makes it at least related to their Nagari research. We don't know the GTI's motivation for the rebellion itself, but the amount of Shivan tech they were working with definitely suggests that they were working in tandem with the Shivans (I won't make any guesses as to who was working for who).

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
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Re: The Great Darkness (major spoilers)
The wing of fully functional Seraphim (unlike your broken-down ****ty Dragon in Playing Judas) the Hades launched says no.
In BP, ST:R is canon. ST is not.


GTI did not ally with the Shivans; the Shivans that GTI had in custody for whatever reason worked for GTI. That's a fairly solid fact given the command briefs from Silent Threat and the mere existence of the Hades.
The GTI Rebellion was based on the GTI's extensive use of Shivan technology (or was the Hades not an attempt at replicating the Lucifer?). This alone makes it at least related to their Nagari research. We don't know the GTI's motivation for the rebellion itself, but the amount of Shivan tech they were working with definitely suggests that they were working in tandem with the Shivans (I won't make any guesses as to who was working for who).
Seriously, where do those assumptions come from. It's not even remotely validated by anything in ST:R.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Mod management tools     -     Wiki stuff!     -     Help us help you

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Legate Damar

  • Keeping up with the Cardassians
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Re: The Great Darkness (major spoilers)
It's the Transcendent  :warp:

 

Offline CommanderDJ

  • Software engineer
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Re: The Great Darkness (major spoilers)
Spoiler:
No, he appears elsewhere in that mission.
[16:57] <CommanderDJ> What prompted the decision to split WiH into acts?
[16:58] <battuta> it was long, we wanted to release something
[16:58] <battuta> it felt good to have a target to hit
[17:00] <RangerKarl> not sure if talking about strike mission, or jerking off
[17:00] <CommanderDJ> WUT
[17:00] <CommanderDJ> hahahahaha
[17:00] <battuta> hahahaha
[17:00] <RangerKarl> same thing really, if you think about it

 
Re: The Great Darkness (major spoilers)
Spoiler:
What if Laporte is the transcendant! *gasp*

 

Offline docfu

  • 27
Re: The Great Darkness (major spoilers)
Spoiler:
Nope, Ken is the transcendant. The only reason he doesn't kill La Porte is because he wants to lead everyone to their doom, not just her.

 

Offline Qent

  • 29
Re: The Great Darkness (major spoilers)
Spoiler:
I'm confident that the Transcendant is none of the characters in BP outside of that one failure debriefing.

 
Re: The Great Darkness (major spoilers)
So you guys do realize that there's no need for spoiler tags in this particular topic, right? :p
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?" -DEATH, Discworld

"You can fight like a krogan, run like a leopard, but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard!"

 
Re: The Great Darkness (major spoilers)
So you guys do realize that there's no need for spoiler tags in this particular topic, right? :p
Spoiler tags are the height of civilization :P

 
Re: The Great Darkness (major spoilers)
They're all in bp2-visuals2.vp , I had a quick look through the .png files.  I think some of those pics were specifically chosen for their WTF quotient.  And what the hell is
Spoiler:
eye4.png
supposed to be???

I do wonder if it was created with BP in mind, or if it's just some generic image with cool fractals.

Oh, well, even if it were the former, I'm not sure what one could deduce from it.

Was looking into the mission with FRED for gaining the information that I had missed when the nodes didn't work for me, it's full of interesting stuff, the different debriefings alone are very well written.

So the "Great Darkness" is apparently classified as a "worm", maybe that's some hint towards it being sort of a Nagari-parasite?

 
Re: The Great Darkness (major spoilers)
What do lab researchers generally do with a cell culture that's deviated from experimental protocols?

See what happens?

Seriously though, sapient species are another matter entirely, especially if they're immediately capable of joining the Summed Psyche.

Sapient species never seem to stop declaring their huge uniqueness and value. One could conclude they are a tad self-centered. One even might conclude they are a tad dangerous for that reason alone.

Not so much uniqueness as distinction. And it doesn't stop at sapient, either: an entity like the Vishnans has similar, perhaps even far greater consideration.

A sapient entity has the capacity to truly understand and learn things that are entirely outside their experience or proximity. That capability means that it is effectively more practical/efficient to teach a sapient entity (that is willing to learn, even if that willingness comes as a result of an ultimatum) the 'problem'--be it their problem, some universal problem, some abstract problem with major consequences for other entities, etc--and encourage, enact, or enforce a solution, rather than wholesale or even callous slaughter.

The Vishnans sort of do this themselves--the big discrepancy is that they seem to arbitrarily distinguish between 'okay' and 'not okay' ways of intervention, manipulation, or guidance, and when things don't go exactly according to plan...kill everyone (?).

At least when it comes to the Shivans, their goals/criteria/protocols don't involve such a dynamic at all--they kill any race that doesn't meet its specific, strict criteria, and they don't manipulate races towards those criteria (at least not that we know of).
Delenda Est delenda est.

(Yay gratuitous Latin.)

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: The Great Darkness (major spoilers)
Let's put it this way. If the ants start pissing me off on my office's kitchen, I kill the thousands of them all. I don't feel necessarily Hitlerian after the fact. In fact, I feel cleaner.

 

Offline An4ximandros

  • 210
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Re: The Great Darkness (major spoilers)
 The Ancient cull speaks of them being eradicated at present -8800, if those are years, that would place them within the times mentioned on the "Ancients" database article, about 8000+ years ago and between the dates given to the artifacts of an annihilated species and well within the Vasudan's ruling dynasty's length.

 The Mind Worm's tech room description speaks of the possibility of an ancient mistake by the very first civilizations... this may be related to the "No War" policy of the protocol. What if the Great Darkness was created as a weapon that destroyed though acatalepsy? The creators did blunder once...

 About the Vishnans: The Great Psyche might be seeking to absorb the humans in an attempt to prevent their own extinction. Fulfilling their original protocol might result in them having no reason to exist, and that might conflict with their primary role of Preservers. The Shivans being immortal give no ****s about this, Ken's words at the Transabyssal Gate make it clear they don't think they need them. By absorbing the human race's Noosphere, the Vish. will transcend their original purpose and become the new Brahmans, thus attaining a higher place in the cosmic order.

 At any rate, of all things in this thread, only one is certain: We need Part 2-2 dang it! Anyway, time for the devs to drop a cryptic bomb shell and some Weapons of Mind Destruction and make us start thinking this all over again.

 

Offline BritishShivans

  • Jolly good supernova
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Re: The Great Darkness (major spoilers)
I don't know if this is necro or not, so here goes....  :nervous:

Alternate Great Darkness theory:

The Great Darkness looks suspiciously like the LOST monster. Based upon this, I believe that the Great Darkness is either the LOST monster or a descendant/relative of it. The reason why you die/go mad if you look at it is because the Great Darkness fills your brain with LOST reruns, either causing it to explode or implode. CASSANDRA mercy-kills Laporte to spare her the sheer crappyness of this all. The Nagari networks are in fact a quarantine zone made with the intention of keeping the GD out of "our" universe.

The Shivans and the Vishnans are in fact a pair of universal guardians dedicated to destroying any and all forms of the LOST show to prevent the Great Darkness from entering "our" universe and destroying everything/killing everyone with endless LOST reruns. The reason why the Shivans ordered a cull is because humans managed to produce an almost-full run of the show, putting the GD to getting out of the Nagari network and one step closer to destroying the universe.

No, I haven't been watching too much LOST, and I really hate it too, okay?  :nervous: