Hard Light Productions Forums
Archived Boards => The Archive => Terran-Vasudan War => Topic started by: Mars on March 31, 2006, 07:59:08 pm
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Couple of questions. First off, are the Vasudans going to gain weapon technology along with the Terrans? (i.e. will they develop new weapons, unlike the Shivans in FS.) Secondly, will Vasudan missiles just be Terran missiles? (also as in the game)
Has this been asked before and I just can't find it?
Should I not have asked?
Should this be it the FAQ?
Duh, I'm an idiot.
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That has yet to be determined. We'll need to finish Chapter 1 (which is currently on hold) first.
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Yeah, can't wait.
and...
How does it feel to have nearly 10,000 posts?
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Exhausting. :(
++postcount
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I've always felt that the 'laser turrets' (more like plasma bursts) that we see in FS1 are non-Terran in origin. Big blobs of yellow things is not what I'd think of when I hear "human weapons." I always kind of felt that the laser turrets were invented by the Vasudans, while Humans still used archaic solid projectile weaponry. During the intial stages of the war, the Terrans could have realized that their weapons had difficulty penetrating the hulls of Vasudan ships. Vasudan "lasers" could be heavily ionized gases composed of heavy metals. The gas is made by superheating metals with ultra-powerful lasers until they have been energized to a point that the outer most shells of the atoms are completely stripped of their electrons. Using very intense magnetic fields, this gas is compressed and ejected out the barrel. Because they are heavily ionized, the gas stays coallesed and coherent for long distances. It is so dense and super hot that when it impacts the hulls of capital ships or even fighters in instantly vaporizes the hull. Making them far more effective than the traditional solid projectile weapons that humans have used since the beginning of humanity.
At least that was my idea. :P
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I thought the Vasudans had weaker weapons than the Terrans, though?
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Well the Fusion Mortar in FS1 does as much (or more) damage as an SGreen in FS2... so I'd say the Terrans had some good weapons.
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They can outrun us, and we can outgun them.
(A cookie to whoever can place that quote. :))
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They can outrun us, and we can outgun them.
It's just like basketball african americans will out dunk, outplay, out athletisize. But put a white guy will out shoot them all. (not a racist comment, a commentator said this not me.)
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But the Vasudan Flux Cannon does much more damage than the Fusion Mortar (IIRC).
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They can outrun us, and we can outgun them.
It's just like basketball african americans will out dunk, outplay, out athletisize. But put a white guy will out shoot them all. (not a racist comment, a commentator said this not me.)
yes and he got fired for that, it is a racist comment
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But the Vasudan Flux Cannon does much more damage than the Fusion Mortar (IIRC).
It was only supposed to be used on the Typhon, making it more akin to a BVas.
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They can outrun us, and we can outgun them.
It's just like basketball african americans will out dunk, outplay, out athletisize. But put a white guy will out shoot them all. (not a racist comment, a commentator said this not me.)
yes and he got fired for that, it is a racist comment
Racist towards, who, really? >..>;; Too many people and their ****ing feelings getting hurt. :p <..<;;
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But the Vasudan Flux Cannon does much more damage than the Fusion Mortar (IIRC).
It was only supposed to be used on the Typhon, making it more akin to a BVas.
I believe that the Vasudan Flux Cannon actually has a lower fire rate and missile velocity than the fusion mortar. That can have a reduction on the overall dammage factor when you factor time in.
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But the Vasudan Flux Cannon does much more damage than the Fusion Mortar (IIRC).
yes but it fires much slower making it do the about the same damage.
edit: didn't notice TP beat me too it.
They can outrun us, and we can outgun them.
It's just like basketball african americans will out dunk, outplay, out athletisize. But put a white guy will out shoot them all. (not a racist comment, a commentator said this not me.)
yes and he got fired for that, it is a racist comment
are you sure? I could have sworn I've seen him since.
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Check your data Freespace Wiki (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Weapon_Comparison_%28FS2%29#Turret_Missiles)
The VFC does slightly more (armor) damage / second than the Fusion Mortar, It ain't a BVas (should'a checked my data) but it's damage / second is 25% more than the Fusion Mortar
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Of course, it's not actually used, rendering that moot...
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The Vasudan Flux Cannon was supposed to be on the Typhon, which was what was to make it so powerful, but they got replaced by FighterKillers instead, making the Typhon a piece of ****.
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The Typhon also has a weapons subsystem that is not only impossible to miss (it can be hit on both sides of the ship and it's about 1/5 of the ship's length), but horribly easy to destroy. While doing expiraments with my FSPort overhaul mod I noticed this weakness glaringly. There's no way one of those things could outright take out an Orion. After a minute the thing's weapons subsystem is gone, and the battle is effectively over at that point. The Orion's weapon subsystem is also a large and vulnerable target, but since it can only be attacked from one side, it's good to go. I don't know if :v: changed this weakness from FS1 to FS2, though. I did notice on many of the tables that Shivan ships had much stronger turret armor in FS2 than in FS1, but this was in regards to the turrets that were once normal laser turrets that were replaced with beam cannons.
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NOTHING is weaker than the Hades' engine subsystem.
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NOTHING is weaker than the Hades' engine subsystem.
I don't think I ever tried that, but it's not like it'd matter much. You'll still have to sit there for hours reloading 256 times before the thing finally dies.
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Heh, that was a quick kill for me since I was using FSPort on SCP, I just put it x66 and pounded away :D. But the Orion can destroy the Hades because all its turrets get disabled. The Hades is really useless actually.
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Ah, someone with all the answers...perhaps you'd care to explain how I had a mission where the Hades took down three Demons and five Molochs, then... :p
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You used the beam-fire sexp at astronomical range maybe? Changed the tables, that sort of thing.
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Hades < Orion
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Ah, someone with all the answers...perhaps you'd care to explain how I had a mission where the Hades took down three Demons and five Molochs, then... :p
The Hades can kill 3 Demons? With two BGreens? :wtf:
Perhaps you uberized it?
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Oh Noes! He trashmanized his tables!
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The Hades can kill 3 Demons? With two BGreens? :wtf:
Perhaps you uberized it?
The Demon has no forward armament worthy of the name. They got killed closing in for a run down the Hades' broadside. I think the last one actually made it far enough it could engage with one of its LReds, but it was down to about 15% hull by that point and the Hades was still fresh.
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Ah, I see, the same way the Aeolus can take out the Ravana :p
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:p That's a losing bet. Ravana has forward armament and its rear set of guns would protect against a close run down its broadside.
The Molochs were sent in at it as a swarm from multiple vectors, but didn't fare well either. People make a lot of the subsystem vunerablity of the Hades, but the subsystem actually has to get hit first. This doesn't happen often with Shivan beams, because they don't slash. A Deimos can render the Hades almost inert rapidly, but a Ravana will find it much more difficult.
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Don't beam cannons automatically target subsystems?
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They automatically target a vertice on the model, IIRC.
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Still, the fact that a wing of Medusa's can jump in and disable a Demon killer disturbs me a little.
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The Hades can kill 3 Demons? With two BGreens? :wtf:
Perhaps you uberized it?
Maybe more like Gooberized it, or Galemperized it, whoever actually did the tables for the FS1 Port. I noticed in the FS1 ship tables that the Hades in the FSPort doesn't have BGreens, instead it has a SSL Beam. SSL is short for 'Shivan Super Laser', and if you know anything about the original FS1 tables, the SSL was the weapon that was equipped on the Lucifer, the so-called "flux cannon." For the FSPort, Galemp and his team must have decided to change the SSL from its original iteration to a type of beam weapon. It's probably about as powerful as the Sathanas or maybe Collosus beam, and makes the Hades capable of taking on a multitude of ships.
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The Hades can kill 3 Demons? With two BGreens? :wtf:
Perhaps you uberized it?
Maybe more like Gooberized it
:lol:
I noticed in the FS1 ship tables that the Hades in the FSPort doesn't have BGreens, instead it has a SSL Beam. SSL is short for 'Shivan Super Laser', and if you know anything about the original FS1 tables, the SSL was the weapon that was equipped on the Lucifer, the so-called "flux cannon." For the FSPort, Galemp and his team must have decided to change the SSL from its original iteration to a type of beam weapon. It's probably about as powerful as the Sathanas or maybe Collosus beam, and makes the Hades capable of taking on a multitude of ships.
Indeed, but some clarification should be provided. The SSLBeam (http://scroll.hard-light.net/misc/lucybeam/lucybeamscreenie.html) is a weapon created by Sesquipedalian that is identical to the Shivan Super Laser in every respect. Both weapons do 90,000 points of damage per minute, which is about 50% more than the BFGreen according to ZylonBane's Beam FAQ (http://home.att.net/~clay.h/fs2/beamfaq.htm).
We changed the Shivan Super Lasers on both the Lucifer and the Hades to SSLBeams. However, we increased the number of SSLBeams on the Hades from 2 to 5. This has no effect on Silent Threat but helps give the Hades better beam coverage for Silent Threat: Reborn. However, even in ST:R, we try to preserve the original balance by preventing the Hades from firing more than two beams at once.
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5 SSL beams? Holy mother of _____!! :eek:
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Oh Noes! He trashmanized his tables!
I resent that remark! :P
but seriously, have zou come to anz decision regarding weapons? You have a lot of freedom here.
I would suggest improving the Heavy Turrets or making vasudan and terran versions...
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Just do what you have to do folks... I wanna see STR out in my lifetime
God that first was one of my first 100 posts I think... I can't believe it isn't buried under the sands of time
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Uh... I have a weapons related question. In the demo release, every time you shoot something you get this really cheesy, stereotypical sound effect, like a ricochet. And it happens every time you shoot something. Now, on a technical point of view, if allll your shots are ricocheting, then you're not really doing much good. From a gameplay standpoint, it's kind of an irritating sound effect, and I was wondering if there's a change planned, so that if there's not, I can replace it with something else.
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Heh, I actually don't care for it much either, mostly because one would expect these guns to be firing explosive shells and not solid rounds. I haven't looked for a replacement yet, however. If you find something better, post it and let the community decide.
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Uh... I have a weapons related question. In the demo release, every time you shoot something you get this really cheesy, stereotypical sound effect, like a ricochet. And it happens every time you shoot something. Now, on a technical point of view, if allll your shots are ricocheting, then you're not really doing much good. From a gameplay standpoint, it's kind of an irritating sound effect, and I was wondering if there's a change planned, so that if there's not, I can replace it with something else.
hmm good point.. I just started to imagine that all these bullets dented the armor of a hostile fighter.. if you shoot 600 rounds at the same area.. it's bound to be smashed to bits, and only the last shots would actually penetrate the armor, because the rest bounced off, but weakened it
Also, on the weapons front, it would be really interesting to see terran command (after unification) come up with some sort of hybrid weapon, based on old terran and vasudan designs. (a hybrid weapon as in a laser propelled bullet) It sounds like "the best of two worlds"The speed and general handyness of the laser combined with the raw penetration power of bullets.
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Wouldn't they be using armor piercing bullets of some type... technically speaking?
Pure lead doesn't really do much to armor.
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I got an idea. diamond bullets.
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The effect does kind of bug me.
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I got an idea. diamond bullets.
Nice idea, but think of the £$£$£$£$£$ cost to the economy every time you held down the fire button in a twenty minute engagement.
Plus on the rare ( it must happen at some point) occasion that we miss our targets, They'd fly off forever and hit some poor soul out walking his space dog..
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Wouldn't they be using armor piercing bullets of some type... technically speaking?
Pure lead doesn't really do much to armor.
heh true, but the sounds implies just that.. lead bullets ;)
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Wouldn't they be using armor piercing bullets of some type... technically speaking?
Pure lead doesn't really do much to armor.
heh true, but the sounds implies just that.. lead bullets ;)
Exactly my point.
I'd expect them to explode on impact, not richochet.
Also, in Freespace fighters can widthstand kiloton of TNT equivalent warheads, so I'd expect fighters, even from a hundred years before, to be a little more durable than normal machine gun ammunition could handle.
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Hmmm quite a good point.. for a martian ;)
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It's actually in reference to Mars the greek god of war, not the planet named after him.
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You mean the Roman god? Be glad I pointed that out, I just saved you from the Mobian Inquisition.
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lol... oops... I originally wanted Ares, but someone had taken it.
Annnyway... more thoughts on the weapon ricochet sound?
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I got an idea. diamond bullets.
Nice idea, but think of the £$£$£$£$£$ cost to the economy every time you held down the fire button in a twenty minute engagement.
Plus on the rare ( it must happen at some point) occasion that we miss our targets, They'd fly off forever and hit some poor soul out walking his space dog..
in the futaur diamonds might be much cheaper to make. and besides, how much money do you think the GTVA wastes on giant beamzors?
Plus on the rare ( it must happen at some point) occasion that we miss our targets, They'd fly off forever and hit some poor soul out walking his space dog..
:(
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Ok, since this thread is about weapons, I've got a problem. I just got the mission where I get the mustang for the first time. It can't use the guns that I'm showing available. Is this a bug or a feature?
EDIT: It appears to be a bug with the March 14th '08 XT build. I went back to the Dec. 7th, '07 XT and it worked ok, save the problem of it not being updated with the widescreen fix, though this largely wasn't an issue. I'll try to Mantis the bug later, assuming I can remember my login. I'm also going to test to see which build introduced the bug so that I can give more info for my forthcoming bug report for the SCP.
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in the futaur diamonds might be much cheaper to make. and besides, how much money do you think the GTVA wastes on giant beamzors?
Dude? Cheaper to Make? Diamonds don't come out of a factory. They're the result of the Earth crushing coal for a couple hundred thousand years. Besides, diamond's might be hard, but you can still smash them with a hammer. What do you think getting slammed into a steel or titanium plate is going to do? There's a difference between how hard a substance is, and its tensile strength.
They'd probably go on using depleted uranium or whatever else substance they've got going on.
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Most likely a depleted uranium slug; and for railguns/coilguns/gauss guns they probably have a highly-conductive metal coating, like copper or gold covering the depleted uranium.
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in the futaur diamonds might be much cheaper to make. and besides, how much money do you think the GTVA wastes on giant beamzors?
Dude? Cheaper to Make? Diamonds don't come out of a factory.
Newsflash, they do (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufactured_diamond).
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Actually, for a railgun, you don't want highly conductive. You want it conductive, but highly resistive, so that the current pushes it along the rails. Highly conductive materials would simply create a circuit and drain the power out of the capacitors for the rail gun without affecting the projectiles. As for gauss guns, I'm thinking maybe you mean a coilgun? Don't need to conduct anything with that. The projectile in a coilgun never touches the coils. It's moved by pulsing the coils in a carefully timed sequence to move the projectile down the barrel of the weapon at an ever accelerating speed, and timing a reversal of polarity on each coil to then push the projectile as it passes and goes into the area of influence of the next coil. Basically, you shoot magnets, it's like a maglev train.
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Dude? Cheaper to Make? Diamonds don't come out of a factory.
Newsflash, they do (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufactured_diamond).
Ah, who knew.
Even so, diamond tipped bullets? Seems unlikely. Considering that the diamond has to fit on the tip of the shell (or comprise the tip of the shell, which would be fairly big) and not chip off or whatever. Bullets of today tend to be fairly singular in their outer design. But who knows, I don't make 'em for a living.
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Isn't tungsten supposed to be a really hard metal, i.e. 9 on the hardness test or whatever?
You could use those on your bullet tips.
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It resists high heat, but is brittle.
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At best, you'd be looking at using it as armor against beams to protect bombs.
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A main FS2 armor is molybdenum.
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The Iceni has Depleted Uranium Sheathing, for its subsystems, at least.
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Uh... tungsten is actually commonly used in armor piercing bullets because it's MORE dense than Depleted Uranium, but more expensive.
Tungsten is a very likely candidate for future projectile weapons.
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No, I believe it was tungsten carbide.
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Wikipedia on Tungsten (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungsten)
In armaments, tungsten, usually alloyed with nickel and iron or cobalt to form heavy alloys, is used in kinetic energy penetrators as an alternative to depleted uranium but may also be used in cannon shells, grenades and missiles to create super-sonic shrapnel. High-density alloys of tungsten may be used in darts (to allow for a smaller diameter and thus tighter groupings) or for fishing lures (tungsten bead heads allow to sink the fly rapidly).
Wikipedia on Phalanx CWIS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS)
The velocity of the rounds once fired is approximately 3,600 feet per second (1,100 m/s). The rounds are armor piercing tungsten penetrator rounds with discarding sabots.
Warfighters Encyclopedia Naval Surface Guns (https://wrc.navair-rdte.navy.mil/warfighter_enc/weapons/shiplnch/Guns/ciws.htm)
Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot (APDS); Tungsten sub-caliber penetrator
Wikipedia on Depleted Uranium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium)
As a byproduct of uranium enrichment, DU became less expensive than other high-density ordnance candidates including tungsten in the 1960s. As the next best candidate, tungsten had to be obtained from China. With DU stockpiles estimated to be more than 500,000 tons, it was more economical to use depleted uranium than store it. Thus, from the late 1970s, the U.S., the Soviet Union, Britain, and France began converting their stockpiles of depleted uranium into kinetic energy penetrators.
AZmaterials on Tungsten applications: Bullets (http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1259)
So you see, Tungsten is used a lot in bullets and more advanced KEPs
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Well tungsten carbide works too.
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It's true
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So...
Tungsten Guns
DU Guns
Diamond Guns
Those all are feasible.
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What we have today is:
Lead guns
Tungsten guns
Tungsten Carbide guns
Depleted Uranium guns
But I suspect that they would use HEAT round equivalents, as that is what fighters from WWII used, and fighters have continued to use.
Actually in WWII they used combinations of normal bullets, Incindiary, and HEAT.
But all this is about it changing the weapon hit effect for TVWP... and possibly the impact explosion.