Author Topic: RELEASE: Walls Closing  (Read 10727 times)

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Re: RELEASE: Walls Closing
Played through it. It was a very enjoyable mini-campaign. I liked it quite a bit and would highly recommend people play it. You did a good job in explaining what happened to the Phoenicia and its recovery.

 
Re: RELEASE: Walls Closing
So I decided to take this thing for a spin... And boom, no weapons! I can confirm that these weapons are there when I launch these missions from the Tech Room, so I think something went wrong? The version is 1.0.3.

Edit: So, it seems like there aren't any starting weapons in your campaign file. That's a very quick fix that I've done myself, so if you want I can throw the file in here or through Discord.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 01:13:32 pm by MitoPL »
How do you kill a hydra?

You starve it to death.

 
Re: RELEASE: Walls Closing
I think the problem is that the weapons are name the way as in the techroom (with the GTW/GTM prefix).

 

Offline Colt

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Re: RELEASE: Walls Closing
Whoops. Can confirm I edited it with the gtws in it. On mobile so I'll fix it when I get home.

Also may as well ask here, but can I update the current version 03 instead of making .04, or is that necessary?

 

Offline PIe

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Re: RELEASE: Walls Closing
Updating 1.0.3 would only upload any metadata changes, not any actual mod changes.  Being able to substantially change an existing version would defeat one of the main benefits of Knossos, easily distributing updates and fixes like this.
[6:23 PM] PIe: why do I have the feeling that I shouldn't be able to give orders to 22nd armored hq
[6:24 PM] Axem: 22nd armored hq, i order you to get me a cup of coffee
[6:24 PM] PIe: and donuts
[6:24 PM] PIe: BECAUSE THIS IS THE GTVA POLICE
[6:25 PM] Axem: :O
[6:25 PM] Axem: am i under arrest
[6:26 PM] [`_`]/: no, just please step out of the myrmidon
[6:26 PM] [`_`]/: you have so much to fred for

[9:50 PM] Sottises: wait did you do vassago's verge?
[9:50 PM] Sottises: .. dirge?
[9:50 PM] Axem: yes
[9:50 PM] Sottises: ohh
[9:50 PM] Sottises: well I have that and JAD too
[9:50 PM] Axem: :)
[9:50 PM] Sottises: what a contrast of themes lmao
[9:50 PM] Axem: isnt it
[9:51 PM] Axem: super grimdark thriller about unknowable alien intelligence and over the top colorful action about friendship
[9:51 PM] PIe: jad is grimdark???
[9:51 PM] Axem: :skull:

 

Offline Colt

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Re: RELEASE: Walls Closing
Think I understand. Was worried about releasing a 1.0x version every time I update something as small as a line of text in case it seemed spammy. Then again I worry over wayyy too many things.

EDIT: Aight just got back. Mito if you have done that then I'll gladly accept the document here just to make sure I don't make another broken update  :p
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 04:15:02 pm by Colt »

 
Re: RELEASE: Walls Closing
Nah, it's perfectly fine. Small incremental updates like this help mod makers a lot. Everything is fine as long as your version naming scheme is logical, so i.e. some simple grammar corrections don't cause a 1.0.3 -> 2.0.0 upgrade. :P

Edit: It should be this one. Just look if I didn't place some weapons that shouldn't be there. You can change this stuff by going FRED -> Editors -> Campaign and then opening the campaign file.

[attachment eaten by a Shivan]
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 04:35:42 pm by MitoPL »
How do you kill a hydra?

You starve it to death.

 

Offline Colt

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Re: RELEASE: Walls Closing
Hmm. I just compared the file you gave me and the .fc2 I have, and every thing appears to be the same. Nightmare pointed out about the prefixes which is also still present here. I checked the initial status' in the campaign editor and found I only left the Myrm and the defaut weapons available though. Going to fix these things and edit when it's updated. Let me know if I'm forgetting anything.

Edit: Actually! Just checked the .fc2 file for v1.00 and everything there looks like how it should be. Only thing I changed from 1.00 to 1.01 were some mission balances, so simply replacing the .fc2 with that would would do the trick?

Edit 2: v1.04 Released. Let me know if there's any issues  :p
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 08:30:54 pm by Colt »

 
Re: RELEASE: Walls Closing
1.04 is locked to only a single specific FSO build (20190112). This annoyed me a bit, so I just modified my mod.json file to use moar versions:
Code: [Select]
                    "id": "FSO",
                    "version": ">=3.8.1-20190112",
                    "packages": []
How do you kill a hydra?

You starve it to death.

 

Offline Colt

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Re: RELEASE: Walls Closing
1.04 is locked to only a single specific FSO build (20190112). This annoyed me a bit, so I just modified my mod.json file to use moar versions:
Code: [Select]
                    "id": "FSO",
                    "version": ">=3.8.1-20190112",
                    "packages": []
They work good? I haven't had a chance to check since I'm a bit neck-deep in on another campaign. At the time the newest version was 20190124 but the debris field objects in the first level were stretching all over my screen. Can not recall why I didn't use 20190113 though.

 
Re: RELEASE: Walls Closing
My tweak makes it use any FSO build at least as recent as 20190112. Currently I'm running it on the latest nightly and I'm not facing any issues.
How do you kill a hydra?

You starve it to death.

 
Re: RELEASE: Walls Closing
Okay, so I've finished this pretty little campaign and it's made really well. Mission design is rather simple, the good old way of doing things, but a very nice addition were the fiction reader texts. While short and rather simple, they also were decent, a nice insight into the story from the eyes of someone different than the player. Missions weren't too easy, I think that with a small tweak to one of them this campaign will be a nice and mildly challenging play on Insane.

On to some details about the missions themselves:
Hidden Text: Show
M1:
It looks that Thebes is using only one of its beam cannons.
Seems like Parapet has got some turrets already destroyed when it arrives (upper flak batteries).

This mission is quite challenging and it's really nice.

M2:
"The ecliptic plane" is referred to systems with planetary bodies, look up at Wiki.

This mission is really hard. There's a very narrow gap between Nahemas arriving in the area and pumping out ridiculous amounts of bombs at short range, severely crippling or just destroying the Proteus. I think these bombers should jump in further away. There's also an issue of the waves of this attack overlapping. The mix of these circumstances makes for a situation where most of your wingmen die or are busy shaking off the fighters, you've got some riding on your tail too, there's a wing of bombers spamming dual torpedoes at point blank at the Proteus as their point defence cannot keep up, and even if the cruiser survives the bombers, there's a Cain that will drain the rest of its hull integrity while you're trying to disarm that cannon. I just think too many things happen at the same time for the player to be able to defend the Proteus.

M3:
There are no bombs available for bombers.
This is basically a pretty easy mission, the proper use of Maxim and Trebuchet weapons in combination with ordering your wings results in really fast cruiser kills.

M4:
"medel" lol
The introduction of Maxim and Trebuchets makes this mission also pretty easy, but without them it would be nearly impossible to complete. Also, it still requires a certain amount of knowledge on how to properly use these weapons for the player to be effective, but this gets a pass from me.

Basically, this is another small but solid campaign release. Definitely try it out!
How do you kill a hydra?

You starve it to death.

 

Offline Colt

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Re: RELEASE: Walls Closing
Glad you enjoyed it! In regards to the mission reviews there are a few things that could use some tweaking (for some reason I thought an ecliptic plain only needs the star and no planets for reference  :banghead:). Honestly thought mission 3 would've been the one most prone to bugs (that one alone took like half the development time).

"medel" lol
Whoops.

Should have an update out by either this weekend or next.

In the meantime, back to working on Olym-
:warp:

  

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: RELEASE: Walls Closing
So, I had the opportunity to try out this campaign because I needed to kill some time before a midnight screening at the local movie theatre.

First technical issues:
- The Debriefing for the final mission appeared twice for me. This is because you made mistake with the Debriefing - Debriefing stages do not replace each other but add to each other in order, i.e. each stage is only displayed if its conditions are met, in the order they are entered (Stage 1 before Stage 2, Stage 3 after that). If you want to have a exchange a paragraph in the middle you just have to put in, say, Stage 2 and the replacement in 3 and then rest of the Debrief in 4.
- The files did not arrived on my end packaged as a .vp. Knossos offers the option to do that automatically. It is a good way to keep the files consistent with the download you provide, and will make debugging a bit easier.

Gameplay issues suggestions:
I recommend you get and impliment Axem's Mark-Box-script from here. It is huge quality of life improvement for players when it comes to "destroy X beam"-directives.

Narrative issues:
I can immediatly recognize that you are rather unfamiliar with military proccedure and ideas behind how military leadership is supposed to work - that's fine, not everyone had an officer for a father, like me.
But it leaves some big holes in the narrative for me:

Firstly, in Command Briefing to Mission 02 Command commits the big transgression against its own authority by admitting they have been wrong. The orthodox view on the matter is that commanding officers are not supposed to admit that a previous decision was wrong, as not invite their judgement to be questioned by those under their command. When a decision is reversed the previous decision is not be framed as an error in judgement but that change in the situation has occurred - a superior officer is supposed to inspire confidence in the lower ranks and that begins with projecting their own confidence in their own judgment. As an officer, to question and evolve your own judgement is supposed to happend among peers or in front of superiors only - but it is also required to happen.

Secondly, in the same CB Command breaks with proccedure by dropping the charges on insubordination without proper procedure. This would never happend in a modern military simply for the effect it would have on cohesion of the chain of command. Insubordinate soldiers still have to go through the proper displinary proccedure, even if there has been grounds for their insubordination to go without punishment (like questionable legality of orders, or statue for consciencous objection). To wave this procedure is considered to be encrouaging further insubordination.
Furthermore in matters of discipline, the consquences of an action are never supposed to outweight the action itself.
EDIT: Also, as a matter of procceedure, discipline is not enforced through the chain of command in a modern military - with minor infractions direct superiors usually are still handing down the judgements, however if you go up insubordination, just based on conflict of interests alone, the matter is generally handeled by officers outside the direct chain of command.

Thridly, and most impactfully, in a force that does not take the loyality of its soldiers for granted, search-and-rescue missions (and POW-exchanges) do serve an important secondary objective with regards to force cohesion (tl;dr "force cohesion" is mix of morale, a functioning chain of command and discipline): The demonstrate the commitment of the force has a whole to the individual soldier, which as per a principle of reciprocity is considered to inspire soldiers to do their duty in similiary dangerous situations. This is supposed to work for both unit being rescued and the unit doing rescue, and by extension every other unit in the force as soon as the operation is made public. Historically, the rescue of units from surrounded positions gets a lot of propaganda attention for this reason.
It felt that element was missing - it could have worked great to help build urgency.

(Quiet transition to praise)
Speaking of urgency: I really liked how you used the fiction viewer to suppliment the Briefings, to build urgency and provide addtional perspective. You recognized and utilized this space well.



For a first time, this campaign is a solid effort. It could use some polish in the details.
Recommended to give a look.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 06:42:21 pm by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 
Re: RELEASE: Walls Closing
Aside the thing with the debriefing, the term "suggestion" would be more fitting than "issues".

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: RELEASE: Walls Closing
I yield on "gameplay". I stand on "technical" and "narrative".

With regards to technical:
Having the files not packed as .vp may not be an issue that is problematic to the user but becomes a big problem once you try to chase a solution to a problem, vis-a-vis verifying the integrety of the package*. It an entirely developer-side issue, and with "Knossos only" distribution almost a mute point.

(*e.g. I dropped the table required to for my prefered HUD config in to the mod packge because I can't stand to look at that intrusive MVP HUD. If I had been less experienced with FSO and it had caused an issue just finding the out that I dropped a table in there via the fs_open.log would be harder. In the fs_open.log you can see which clearly identify the .vps of mod, but with single files you have to go down every line to spot the foreign file.)


With regards to narrative:
The "issues" are clearly quailified as personal - Colt is free to disregard them at their own pleasure. The assumption at the beginning of my issue is clearly stated.

As to why they are "issues" to me: It broke my suspension of disbelieve. If a story cannot compel you to meet it at its own terms, that is an issue with the narrative.
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Colt

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Re: RELEASE: Walls Closing
First off, thanks for the detailed feedback. Indeed my understanding of military procedure is pretty simplified, and I purposefully decided to not dive too deep into it so I could keep focus on producing as bug-free a campaign as I could. My current project is definitely more narrative-heavy however, so your explanations will certainly help there.

Technical-wise, I was under the impression that the mod was packaged as a .vp. I may have forgotten to click on the "package as VP" button in the last update? Also thanks for the heads-up with the debriefing bug; I didn't encounter when testing the mission and it's endings, so I'll take a look into it.

That script is the one used in Inferno Nostos, right? I'll see if I can add it for the next update. Thanks!


 
Re: RELEASE: Walls Closing
Here's the easier-to-use version of the script: https://github.com/AxemP/AxemFS2Scripts/tree/master/MarkBox/data

 

Offline Colt

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Re: RELEASE: Walls Closing
Well, I promised an update.

Version 1.1 Released
Required: Knossos with Nightlies 3.8.1-20190406 or newer.

General Changelog:
-Added Axem's Mark Box script. Should make it much easier to disarm those pesky beams.
-Some small fixes to a few message personas. Couple dozen changes/additions in messages/fictions and grammar fixes.
-Lots of balancing and changes, see below.

Changelog:
Hidden Text: Show
Mission 1: Lockdown
-Adjusted Thebes to use both beams.
-Gave ship-guardian-threshold to Arensnuphis and Parapet.
-Added "Cover Cusae" directive.

Mission 2: Scouring the Seas
-Some changes to briefing in regards to Kellermann's desertion.
-Leo wing Nahema bombers and Taurus wing escorts:
   -Moved back a fair bit,
   -Replaced bombs with weaker ones on Leo wing.
-Reduced Libra wing Astaroths from 4 fighters down to 3.
-Spread out Aries wing Basilisks, reduced from 2 waves to 1.

Mission 3: More Than Bargained
-Minor loadout change ((having 11 x-craft when there are only 10 player/allied fighters, those types of minor things).
-Gave Alpha and Gamma an initial order each.
-Cygnus wing Nahema bombers:
   -Increased from 3 to 5,
   -Spawn slightly further away.
-Gave ship-guardian-threshold to Arensnuphis and Unut.

Mission 4: Judgement
-Fixed debriefing stage 1 missing a condition, causing double debrief with stage 4.
-Gave Aries wing an order.
-Epsilon wing Bakha bombers:
   -Default Prom S replaced with Maxim,
   -Reduced 4 bombers to 3.
-Gave ship-guardian-threshold to Zabaniyya until Zeta arrives.
-Medel to Medal lol (not "medal lol", just "med- ah you know what I mean).

Was originally going to call it 1.0.5, but as I played through this again and the fixes mounted up, I figured I may as well just call it 1.1  :p

Thanks for the helping me improve this, guys.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 02:02:51 am by Colt »

 

Offline CT27

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Re: RELEASE: Walls Closing
I tried 1.1 but got this error when trying to launch:

Could not find index 'LuaSEXPs' in type 'Mission'

------------------------------------------------------------------
ADE Debug:
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------------------------------------------

stack traceback:
   [C]: ?
   [string "markbox-sct.tbm - On Game Init"]:283: in main chunk
------------------------------------------------------------------

1: Userdata [Mission]
2: String [LuaSEXPs]
------------------------------------------------------------------