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Archived Boards => The Archive => Stellar Assault => Topic started by: Quanto on October 31, 2010, 05:41:45 pm

Title: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Quanto on October 31, 2010, 05:41:45 pm
At this point in time, our cockpits are not very impressive. Those who've seen the No Quarter video, understand what I am talking about.
They are low-res, and quite frankly, look like they came straight from an old Sega Game.
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/7603/cockpitpoopoo.jpg)


Fear not however, we are working on concepts for a new cockpit design. And I would like to start an open discussion about it.
First off here is the basic preliminary model as produced by Thaeris a few months back.
And some of the associated sketches.
First off, the Model. As it stands now.
(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/8882/cockpit.png)

This is the concept sketch for that cockpit as presented by Thaeris, around the same time...
(http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/2532/ihwsbq.jpg)

Associated Pilot Designs (Uniform, helmet, such and such. As sketched by me.)
(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/9900/flightsuits.png)

And then our inspiration, from the Anime "Gall Force". Which is actually related to Stellar Assault in that the man who did the Mechanical Designs for Gall Force in 1986-1989, also did the Mechanical Designs for Stellar Assault on 32x in 1994. So these are all very relevant.
(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/7762/wasp11.gif)
(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/9384/tornado07.gif)

These are some of Thaeris' more recent sketches regarding our cockpit design.
(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/390/feather2roughcockpit.jpg)
Feather 2 Internal
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/8716/largehexpad.jpg)
Large Hexpad

My personal endgoal, is to have a cockpit, that firstly, looks good and is functional, and secondly, does not obstruct the vision of the player while flying from the internal view.
And Yes, I am asking for an open discussion and suggestions from people outside of the dev team. As well as the Dev team.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Thaeris on October 31, 2010, 08:08:56 pm
I suppose I ought to drop in here, and foremostly excuse myself for some of the informal chicken-scratch concept work displayed so far.

...That said, let's discuss the Feather 1 cockpit. The 3D models Quanto shows below demonstrate the current form of the Feather 1 cockpit as well as the demo panel of the Feather 1 cockpit. There's a notable problem with the demo model as you can see, and I'll explain what that is. If you see the sketch it derives from, there are four softkey buttons along the upper portions of the left and right main MFD panel. When I made the model, there was an excess of space up there, so I changed the design to include five buttons. As I wasn't being hasty in terms of selecting which sceme I liked best, both button configurations remained until the panel had its viewing heirarchy thrown to the floor when I sent Quanto the model in .obj format. This is what the panel should look like:

(http://amaqbw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p_y2_FD-MyaVteW2qwDFgYyF0GGSbB_-cZ27yjfZXsVlUlX5q0wF0yDOh0_fjn1YpjtsTHA3Qi_Owf-BsjlseGPlmhp07ecjC/Panel%20Demo.png?psid=1)

...And of course, that's all just a part of the overall Fe-1 cockpit. Here's the unfinished formal production artwork, which I ought to finalize sometime:

(http://amaqbw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1peQ4lod0bLJbZKZCZqB019yFt1Y2Dd00xF_IoM35VOMIoZwOiDrLUWqxMdNjw-yMI_Fe8isT5MjkMXCzpc0RngaccabYGeJlm/Feather%201%20Cockpit%20-%20Incomplete.jpg?psid=1)

Here's another drawing from way back when which, should you care to decipher it, demonstrates more of the Feather 1's displays and controls (not to mention the HUD):

(http://amaqbw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pcpQHWQtXK9_Z-bFVQadLjwAyAdlBgWp3lvLKcwWkEYuqUaifMzIZNSaNMJTOHXs3GELmsbjIEZCeSoaWMG2NNDHzp82JLquh/Feather%201%20Cockpit%20-%20Rough.jpg?psid=1)

I'll wrap up here breifly, just finishing off on a few last few details about the instrumentation - I'll post more data pertaining to other things later. One of the recurring instruments in all Terran small-craft is a back up set of instruments, and you can see this below the main panel in all of the Feather 1 cockpit displays as well as in the rough diagram of the Feather 2 forward cockpit. This nifty little device has a set of three coincentric navigational spheres (similar to an artificial horizon in an aeroplane, but cooler) which act as nav-aids in space as well as the atmosphere (I'll refer to these as "nav gyros" in the future). About this set of instruments is also a set of "ring tape" instruments which can relate accelerations, velocity, etc - again in both space and an atmosphere. Additional clocks and timers are also available. The device itself has a computerized projector screen covering the back-up instruments which displays assorted bits of navigational information to the pilot.

In short, although the panel might be quite simple, no space is wasted and the layout is intended to be highly efficient. And it should be. This is the future, after all.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: General Battuta on October 31, 2010, 08:12:43 pm
That middle sketch is actually pretty cool. I think you let the other ones get a bit too busy, but hey, it's just concept work.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Quanto on October 31, 2010, 09:47:59 pm
I too would like to see more from the middle sketch
maybe a different angle showing the seat life support systems?
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: z64555 on November 01, 2010, 12:24:29 am
Looks great so far, guys.  :yes:

I do have two questions though:

How are the energy levels going to be displayed?

On the Hexpad sketch, exactly what are the notes saying? (I can't really read/understand whats all going on there.)



Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Quanto on November 01, 2010, 12:27:49 am
Energy levels are a different discussion entirely, and actually there is a thread about that right now, re: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=72368.0 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=72368.0)

And Thaeris could answer more questions about that Hexpad than I could.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Thaeris on November 01, 2010, 12:53:10 am
The "hexpad" in that drawing was merely the result of me showing Quanto another standard instrument type for SAFSO... Somehow, it ended up here. :)

The particular example is a large version of the control, where the one in question would be part of the "ERS," or "Electrical Regulation System." The panel is set up to go through various modes, as you might tell - the hexpad, regardless of its function, is essentially a set of interactive, variable-mode buttons, and the buttons themselves are acting as a display screen for the operator. In the ERS, the hexpad acts a a circuit-breaker panel as well as a power regulation interface. As for the abbreviations and acronyms, those are rampant in any aircraft or military vehicle. If you don't have any background as to what they mean, you might be out of luck... For example,

NORM: Normal.
STD: Standard.
SYS: System.

And et certera. On the bright side, you won't need to use a hexpad, but now you understand what it can do. Hexpads are most common as system contol devices (such as the electrical system) as well as controls for the weapons system.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: z64555 on November 01, 2010, 10:23:29 am
ah, ok, cool. I've never seen the inside of a modern fighter jet, though... :P
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: General Battuta on November 01, 2010, 10:25:42 am
There are a ton of buttons which are used to keep the pilot busy while he flies into the ground.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Quanto on November 01, 2010, 10:52:26 am
There are a ton of buttons which are used to keep the pilot busy while he flies into the ground.
I lol'd heartily.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: General Battuta on November 01, 2010, 10:56:55 am
That was my favorite part of Falcon 4.0. also it totally happened in iraq
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Quanto on November 01, 2010, 07:10:19 pm
Alright, I just finished a new mockup for our HUD.
Opinions please! :D
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4131/hudwip05.jpg)
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: General Battuta on November 01, 2010, 07:14:13 pm
Busy and obstructive, at least at this resolution (granted I have not played at 1024x768 in forever, but still, I think it could be made cleaner.) Clear out the center, move the shield strength somewhere people can look while staying focused, and try to lose the noise elements - for example those cutouts at the base of the throttle and weapon energy bars.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Quanto on November 01, 2010, 07:15:26 pm
Aww, but it adds personality...
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: AndrewofDoom on November 01, 2010, 07:15:56 pm
Aww, but it adds personality...

Indeed it does. I have to go with Quanto here.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: General Battuta on November 01, 2010, 07:18:14 pm
Cut the three noise cutouts around the weapon and throttle bars and move them flush with the lower edge of the spaces they're in? How's that?
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Quanto on November 01, 2010, 07:25:25 pm
It's doable. Noted.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Thaeris on November 01, 2010, 07:28:38 pm
Personally, I like the new HUD. Is it a little busy? Maybe. The only way to test the effectiveness really is to get it in-game and go from there. From the get-go, I'd try and thin out some of the lines so as to reduce the volume of the display, but I very much like the concept.

Now, if we can get that dynamic HUD tape to work (as seen in the SS version; you could also use the "docking hud" in the 32X as an example), we'll be golden.

 :cool:
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: z64555 on November 01, 2010, 07:41:22 pm
Hey, I like it, could play around a bit with alpha values/making items thinner the closer they are to the center of the screen (excluding the xhairs (?))

Have you looked at logarithmic scale bars?  :nod:
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Quanto on November 01, 2010, 11:09:46 pm
You will have to explain these "logarithmic scale" bars.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: z64555 on November 01, 2010, 11:36:05 pm
A logarithmic scale is typically used for signal analysis, as it allows "scrunching" of a wide range of values into a compact form

(http://artsites.ucsc.edu/EMS/music/tech_background/TE-02/AcNumbers/Image1.gif)

Graphically, the width of the quads go smaller as the scale value is increasing.

For thruster or energy readings in sci-fi applications, linear bars (bars that are symmetrical) could be replaced by log or inverse-log (left/right mirror of log) bars.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Droid803 on November 03, 2010, 12:06:49 am
Throttle and weapon energy bars too friggin huge IMO.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Quanto on November 12, 2010, 07:18:37 am
Well, here is the new HUD as it would look on a high-resolution monitor (which most people use these days).
(http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4489/hudwip06.jpg)
16:10 Aspect @ 1680 x 1050
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: The E on November 12, 2010, 07:39:37 am
Now that is looking cool.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Dragon on November 12, 2010, 01:03:02 pm
Design your weapon gauge with 3+4 (3 gun banks, 4 missile banks) weapon layout in mind.
And wings may not be able to line up like that.
You'll have to script numeric shield indicator.
I don't see CM indicator, lock-on, fired upon, message list and lag gauges.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Quanto on November 12, 2010, 01:45:50 pm
1. Noted
2. Noted
3. I may decide not to show a numeric value for the shields.
4. There are no counter-measures, lock-on is done through a squak-box, I'll have to do a message list, and the lag gauge can be left default.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: The E on November 12, 2010, 01:48:09 pm
Regarding the numeric shield strength display, that can be done easily in scripting.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Quanto on November 12, 2010, 01:50:42 pm
Regarding the numeric shield strength display, that can be done easily in scripting.
Give me a scripter and it will be a non-issue.
But since NO ONE in SAFSO is knowledgeable in scripting...
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: The E on November 12, 2010, 02:20:24 pm
Seriously, it's not hard. Get a tutorial on the lua language, and hang around in #hard-light or #scp for pointers on where to start.

...

Note that I make no guarantees about this, as it was written in 10 minutes, and without testing.
Code: [Select]
#Conditional Hooks

$Application: FS2_Open
$State: GS_STATE_GAME_PLAY

$On HUD Draw:
[
shieldstrength = {}
shieldstrength.plr = hv.Player
if shieldstrength.plr:isValid() then
shieldstrength.plrship = mn.getObjectFromSignature(shieldstrength.plr:getSignature())
end

if shieldstrength.plrship:isValid() then
local shieldstrength = (shieldstrength.plrship.Shields.CombinedLeft / shieldstrength.plrship.Shields.CombinedMax)
gr.setColor(255, 255, 255)
local message = shieldstrength .. "%"
gr.drawString(message, 100, 100)
end
]

It really is not that hard to pick up.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Dragon on November 12, 2010, 02:52:27 pm
4. There are no counter-measures, lock-on is done through a squak-box, I'll have to do a message list, and the lag gauge can be left default.
By lock-on and fired upon gauges, I meant flashing indicators which start blinking when an enemy fighter is locking onto you or firing it's weapons at you.
CM display may be nessesary to maintain compatiblity, but I'm not sure about it.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: The E on November 12, 2010, 02:53:36 pm
With the new HUD code, you can leave out any hud gauge you don't need or want to define.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Dragon on November 12, 2010, 02:59:02 pm
Then OK, but I think that having a CM gauge fitting this HUD could be usefull in case somebody wanted to make a SAFSO mod that uses CMs, or use it's HUD somewhere else.
It'd just be disabled by default.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Quanto on November 12, 2010, 03:16:57 pm
Having CMs would break the gameplay we've established.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Swifty on November 12, 2010, 04:52:31 pm
Hi. I'm the guy that rewrote most of the HUD rendering code. Be aware that metered bar gauges can only clip vertically. It won't take much to get bar gauges to clip horizontally but arbitrary direction clipping (As represented by your afterburner and weapon energy readouts) might be a real doozy.

I'll look into arbitrary bar gauge clipping for your guys' sake but I can't promise anything.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Dragon on November 12, 2010, 05:01:55 pm
I actually see an easy fix for that, though it may not look good.
Just make the stripes horizontal and make the bars deplete vertically.
Title: Re: Stellar Assault Cockpits
Post by: Quanto on November 12, 2010, 05:27:15 pm
Hi. I'm the guy that rewrote most of the HUD rendering code. Be aware that metered bar gauges can only clip vertically. It won't take much to get bar gauges to clip horizontally but arbitrary direction clipping (As represented by your afterburner and weapon energy readouts) might be a real doozy.

I'll look into arbitrary bar gauge clipping for your guys' sake but I can't promise anything.
Please Do!