[Grizzly]

I would love to see some apology.

[Mobius]

Well, nice job, 2 Admins less operating an understaffed site, the whole Global Mod group and the remaining admins should be fired due to proven incompetence but a bunch of PolDisc asshats got rid of some people that disagreed on

What a beautiful day for HLP~

What a sad, yet accurate description of the latest events.

[DefCynodont119]

This entire fiasco is just another one for the "Effed up things that happened in 2020" category. .



I hope to everything that Axem comes back. 

[BlackDove]

Say what you want about the latest events, but anyone who has some experience, or the long view of things, will know that this was the chemotherapy the board needed.

Yeah, it'll kill your immune system, and that needs to be built back up properly (hopefully the mods and admins will re-organize a bit more efficiently after this fiasco), but the cancer that was killing the host for years is finally gone.

[General Battuta]

I would go so far as to say the attitude of "there's no problem, let's not have drama, conflict is bad" is what let things build up to this point.

[MP-Ryan]

I, too, would like to have Axem back. I've reached out but have no idea if there is any chance.

Now, we have a slightly reduced moderation crew (who have jobs and/or are sleeping) and I see, though have no chance to action, moderation reports popping up.

This entire fiasco has been an enormous hurt within the community, and I am pleading with you all to:

1. Stop gloating.
2.  Stop piling on, and
3.  Be civil.

batts made a pretty good post along those lines a page-ish back (on phone, can't easily check).

If you can't say anything civilly or decently, resist the urge to comment. Otherwise, this thread will get the temporary lock until the remaining staff have the ability to actually moderate it.

Thanks in advance

[Mobius]

[...]
Yeah, it'll kill your immune system, and that needs to be built back up properly (hopefully the mods and admins will re-organize a bit more efficiently after this fiasco), but the cancer that was killing the host for years is finally gone.

Nailed it. People assuming this place will be better after this "fiasco", yet proof seems to be lacking. What are we going to get? An improved FSO code? More campaigns? More mods and TCs? Glorious scripts? The only benefit is see here is the supposed reduction of the odds of GD/PD discussions degenerating into something far worse. And it's completely unrelated to the core targets of this community. Also, the staff lost several skilled members and we have no idea who's going to replace them.

[BlackDove]

[...]
Yeah, it'll kill your immune system, and that needs to be built back up properly (hopefully the mods and admins will re-organize a bit more efficiently after this fiasco), but the cancer that was killing the host for years is finally gone.

Nailed it. People assuming this place will be better after this "fiasco", yet proof seems to be lacking. What are we going to get? An improved FSO code? More campaigns? More mods and TCs? Glorious scripts? The only benefit is see here is the supposed reduction of the odds of GD/PD discussions degenerating into something far worse. And it's completely unrelated to the core targets of this community. Also, the staff lost several skilled members and we have no idea who's going to replace them.

Yeah, and I agreed with Sandwich. These decisions, while necessary in my opinion, do actually run counter to HLP's ethos, "bringing modders together". This drove competent modders away. Now, the reason for that, sure, you let this fester for years without addressing it, and now it came to bite everyone in the ass.

But there's no denying, this is overall a loss for all of us, even though a part of a longstanding problem was solved.

[Luis Dias]

I personally hope that the diagnosis of a harmful state of affairs on HLP was correctly made, without error, and that the site may heal in time. From the small things us second-class citizens are allowed to peek, I'm not entirely hopeful, but still pray for it. I sincerely hope you made the right calls, and also hope that all the grudges that may still exist be sufficiently small and die of boredom.

Good luck for all.

[Lorric]

I certainly feel there is more to discuss regarding the future of HLP even if Goober and Sandwich are to remain stripped to the ranks. The talking mustn't end with that. That post from Axem that was put in here was about much more than Goober, and I've never seen him so scathing before. I'm sure serious business went down to make him say that, and we can't just let that lie. Especially if he felt it was so bad as to actually leave rather than simply pull out of the staff.

[BlackDove]

Axem judged his fellows harshly, with good reason, but something had to give. It was increasingly evident that there was no way to resolve this with just agreeing to disagree, which is the way things have been resolved for the past fifteen years, leading to this.

It was either going to be HLP led by Goober and Sandwich, or not.

But yes. Some protocols and procedures on how to do things would not be bad to develop. Maybe some kind of a... democratic manner in handling things? Like, when all admins were against two, the result should have been clear. Out you go by democratic process.

But some operated under the auspices they can never do anything wrong, that they were benevolent rules and dictators, and had permanent standing that could never be questioned.

Maybe change some things.

[Zacam]

In concurrence with MP-Ryan:

There is nothing to gloat about. Retaining civility is still key.

I'm personally of the opinion that this thread is no longer necessary for open discussion -as defined by the topic-; but I'll await the feedback of others for a consensus.

I get that this is still something that is of viable conversation; especially going forward.

[Lorric]

There's gonna be a statement from Karajorma though. I think we should have the opportunity to respond to that. Unless he wants to open up a new thread with it instead.

[Colonol Dekker]

Just finished a 350 mile drive.

FFS...... Axem.....
F

[BlackDove]

Yeah, it's probably best to be done with this thread. I think we beat this horse to death.

Karajorma can open a new one with the statement about things proceeding forward. Maybe the community can give some input on that, and then you guys can take the community feedback, and behind closed doors, decide what you think might be best to do as we all move on from this.

[Mobius]

Sure, this thread can go, it "served" its "purpose". What a sad day for the FreeSpace community. 

[General Battuta]

This was a good thing for FreeSpace, and a rare win for 'doing the right thing' over 'sitting on our hands and fretting about civility'.

[Assassin714]

I'd offer to be a mod and help pick up the slack, but I don't have enough time to commit.

[Strygon]

I'd similarly also offer my services wherever I can, though my knowledge with web coding is rather... limited. I do have a lot of time to sift through many many posts at least (since I always have HLP open on a tab nearby)

[Mobius]

This was a good thing for FreeSpace, and a rare win for 'doing the right thing' over 'sitting on our hands and fretting about civility'.

I beg to differ.

All arguments in favor of this being a good thing for FreeSpace modding are merely conjectural and driven by emotions. Those like me who think the opposite just happened are providing actual proof that it's bad. The staff's down three active members, for instance, and we have no idea who's going to replace them; this is going to have direct consequences on the way the site is managed (where by site I mean HLP as a whole, not the GD/PD trash).