[mjn.mixael]

Eh... A 30s white male who grew up watching Star Wars is absolutely part of the target audience for these new movies. They just aren't very good. I'd like to see something new. It's an entire fictional galaxy... surely there's more villains out there.

[Scotty]

I'd like to see something new.

This is the part where you're not the target audience.

[mjn.mixael]

I mean.. I guess... doesn't seem like the workings of good storywriting or a brand with longevity, to me. But to each their own I guess.

EDIT: I might also add that you seem to think that liking a film or being it's target audience is a requirement for discussing it. It's not. You may disagree with my viewpoint, but trying to shut me down by suggesting I have no right to have a viewpoint does not engage in meaningful discussion. If you don't like the "no one's ever really gone" phrase as a criticism, tell me why. Explain what you think is neat or interesting about it.

[HLD_Prophecy]

This is the part where you're not the target audience.

Yo, no need to sound so provocative at mjn. Maybe choose to disagree politely?

[Nightmare]

This is the part where you're not the target audience.

Yo, no need to sound so provocative at mjn. Maybe choose to disagree politely?

Not being part of the target audience of film makers that try to make you buy recycled stuff as new is not a bad thing IMO, it's more like a compliment.

[Colonol Dekker]

I'm a 37 year old white male.   I thought solo was awful too.  Cliché  predictable events with unmemorable characters along with mediocre dialogue.   


Also space kraken.

[Scotty]

I mean.. I guess... doesn't seem like the workings of good storywriting or a brand with longevity, to me. But to each their own I guess.

EDIT: I might also add that you seem to think that liking a film or being it's target audience is a requirement for discussing it. It's not. You may disagree with my viewpoint, but trying to shut me down by suggesting I have no right to have a viewpoint does not engage in meaningful discussion. If you don't like the "no one's ever really gone" phrase as a criticism, tell me why. Explain what you think is neat or interesting about it.

You've grossly misinterpreted my position; I don't actually like Solo that much.  So far it's the only Star Wars movie I haven't rewatched at least twice.

You pointed out something that irked you about the movie, and capped it with (what I interpreted to be, based on the particular phrase used) the most recent refrain dragged out into the streets to serve as a dead horse to beat.  If you didn't intend it as the verbal equivalent of then I'm sorry I misinterpreted.

Solo wasn't interested in doing anything new with Star Wars, especially not the version that actually ended up making it to theaters.  If you were looking for something new, it wasn't the movie for you.  I'm not surprised that you were disappointed.

"But they could have done better than X!"

Yeah.  They didn't.

[karajorma]

I think the best thing about the Darth Maul reveal was when he turned on his light sabre for no in-universe reason simply because there was a good chance a fair portion of the audience wouldn't remember who the **** he was otherwise.

[Snarks]

I think the best thing about the Darth Maul reveal was when he turned on his light sabre for no in-universe reason simply because there was a good chance a fair portion of the audience wouldn't remember who the **** he was otherwise.

Was Darth Maul ever significant enough outside of the actual films for people to really care? I took the reveal as an acknowledgement that there is appeal to the dark side, about having real power that being good might not grant you. None of the other films really did anything to make the dark side seem appealing. The original trilogy sets the dark side as sort of a mystery box, with some implications that you become subservient to another. The prequel trilogy with Anakin makes it seem that the dark side doesn't really appeal to people, so much as it manipulates them emotionally and then essentially imprisons them. There are plenty of enough memes that mock Anakin. The new trilogy does almost nothing to expand on the lore of the dark side. Was I really supposed to even care that Rey was being offered to join the dark side? Even if she did, it would have come off as being rather irrational, as we aren't shown anything that makes joining the dark side appealing, turning that moment into something rather anti-climatic.

I can see why there's appeal for someone to work with the dark side in Solo. In the dog eat dog world, it's certainly better to be the one that eats. Is it original in terms of story telling? Not really, but it's a tried and true formula. We aren't given reasons why Qi'ra choose to work with the dark side, and we the audience are given that empty space to imagine why. It's not unreasonable to think that someone living on a crap planet with slavery might want something better in life, even if it ultimately means continuing the cycle of dog eat dog. This is the traditional path of organized crime afterall. She isn't a sociopath. She isn't another Dark Side henchman looking menacing and doing terrible things without any apparent motivation. So yeah, it's not particularly new in terms of storytelling, but it is new for Star Wars, which is a universe that really does need some fleshing out.

[Det. Bullock]

Solo is a nice space adventure, it's the "less good" of the new movies but still a fun romp through the criminal underworld of the Star Wars Universe.

I think the best thing about the Darth Maul reveal was when he turned on his light sabre for no in-universe reason simply because there was a good chance a fair portion of the audience wouldn't remember who the **** he was otherwise.

He did it because he deduced that SHE had killed the other bad guy and wanted to make sure she knew that she would be biting more than she could chew if she attempted it with him. Remember that he didn't just turn his lighsaber, he summoned it with the Force.

I think the best thing about the Darth Maul reveal was when he turned on his light sabre for no in-universe reason simply because there was a good chance a fair portion of the audience wouldn't remember who the **** he was otherwise.

Was Darth Maul ever significant enough outside of the actual films for people to really care? I took the reveal as an acknowledgement that there is appeal to the dark side, about having real power that being good might not grant you. None of the other films really did anything to make the dark side seem appealing. The original trilogy sets the dark side as sort of a mystery box, with some implications that you become subservient to another. The prequel trilogy with Anakin makes it seem that the dark side doesn't really appeal to people, so much as it manipulates them emotionally and then essentially imprisons them. There are plenty of enough memes that mock Anakin. The new trilogy does almost nothing to expand on the lore of the dark side. Was I really supposed to even care that Rey was being offered to join the dark side? Even if she did, it would have come off as being rather irrational, as we aren't shown anything that makes joining the dark side appealing, turning that moment into something rather anti-climatic.

I can see why there's appeal for someone to work with the dark side in Solo. In the dog eat dog world, it's certainly better to be the one that eats. Is it original in terms of story telling? Not really, but it's a tried and true formula. We aren't given reasons why Qi'ra choose to work with the dark side, and we the audience are given that empty space to imagine why. It's not unreasonable to think that someone living on a crap planet with slavery might want something better in life, even if it ultimately means continuing the cycle of dog eat dog. This is the traditional path of organized crime afterall. She isn't a sociopath. She isn't another Dark Side henchman looking menacing and doing terrible things without any apparent motivation. So yeah, it's not particularly new in terms of storytelling, but it is new for Star Wars, which is a universe that really does need some fleshing out.

The dark side is supposed to be easier and addictive (after all it's easier to lash out than control yourself), I doubt Qi'ra knew she was working for a former Sith (which by the time the prequels happened were considered little more than a scary bedtime story since the Jedi tried to erase as much information on them as they could from history), hell the way I understood it it's just that she got entangled in organized crime exactly as many poor people happen to be and managed to go up the ranks and leaving organized crime in real life isn't easy.

[karajorma]

I think the best thing about the Darth Maul reveal was when he turned on his light sabre for no in-universe reason simply because there was a good chance a fair portion of the audience wouldn't remember who the **** he was otherwise.

He did it because he deduced that SHE had killed the other bad guy and wanted to make sure she knew that she would be biting more than she could chew if she attempted it with him. Remember that he didn't just turn his lighsaber, he summoned it with the Force.

Which basically the reason why there was no actual need to turn it on. If using the force isn't enough to scare her, the fact that he's got a big glowy sword isn't going to do much to change her mind. Especially if you know he's actually bad enough with it that he's gotten chopped in half at some point.

[Det. Bullock]

I think the best thing about the Darth Maul reveal was when he turned on his light sabre for no in-universe reason simply because there was a good chance a fair portion of the audience wouldn't remember who the **** he was otherwise.

He did it because he deduced that SHE had killed the other bad guy and wanted to make sure she knew that she would be biting more than she could chew if she attempted it with him. Remember that he didn't just turn his lighsaber, he summoned it with the Force.

Which basically the reason why there was no actual need to turn it on. If using the force isn't enough to scare her, the fact that he's got a big glowy sword isn't going to do much to change her mind. Especially if you know he's actually bad enough with it that he's gotten chopped in half at some point.

It's a glowy RED sword which is the mark of the Sith and dark side users in general, other force users (Jedi or not) tend to have actual ethics. Hell the same fact he has a lightsaber is a mark since some unaffiliated force users are around anyway.
Also the possibility she knows why he has mechanical legs is VERY remote, the Jedi kept a lid on basically anything force-related that happened behind the scenes when it comes to the Naboo crisis, the Clone Wars and the like.

PS: also Darth Maul isn't bad at it, he just had a case of Dark Side induced arrogance, like old Palpy and Snoke.

[karajorma]

Cause the force using head of a criminal cartel who wasn't a Sith would be worried about having a red sword?

[Det. Bullock]

Cause the force using head of a criminal cartel who wasn't a Sith would be worried about having a red sword?

Red swords are kind of a necessity for a dark side users because kyber crystals in their natural state reject them, the red blade is a sign that the crystal has been literally tortured into submission, light force users can purify the crystals thus corrupted if necessary so if a force user has a red lightsaber there is a 99% probability they are bad news.

[BlueFlames]

The extended universe was a mistake.

[Det. Bullock]

The extended universe was a mistake.

'twas bound to happen, at least this time is somewhat coherent.
And yes, the overrelliance of Solo on bits and bobs of the EU is technically a mistake, but personally I don't care because I am that much of a Star Wars nerd so I was never really disoriented as many seemed to be.

PS: I really like the new explanation for the red lightsabers and why only force users use them, the old canon didn't really have any barrier that barred any random engineer to build one, you'd think that in thirty years of Legends canon they would have at least thought of something but nope, particularly bewildering considering the old EU had multiple contraddictory explanations for a lot of marginal stuff.

[karajorma]

If you're going to drag in the EU to prove your points, I'm out. I couldn't give a toss for any of that wank.

[Luis Dias]

He's dismissing EU as far as I can tell?

[BlueFlames]

The extended universe was a mistake.

'twas bound to happen, at least this time is somewhat coherent.

"Torturing" a crystal is not what I'd call coherent.

I stand by my statement, in the much broader form in which I made it:  The extended universe was a mistake.  I'm less concerned with Solo importing elements from the EU to try to make something of them than I am with the EU just being a bottomless well of ridiculous nonsense.  Disney dismissing the EU as non-canon was the best option they had for it.

I really like the new explanation for the red lightsabers and why only force users use them, the old canon didn't really have any barrier that barred any random engineer to build one...

Sometimes the simplest explanations are the best.  For example, without the force-enhanced reflexes necessary to put your lightsaber in the path of incoming shots, maybe it doesn't make sense to bring a sword to a gun fight.

No, it totally makes more sense that you need to torture a rock.

And just to add some context here, I'm basically onboard with Star Wars as space-fantasy and the force as magic.  I don't look for tons of external consistency between Star Wars and reality, nor do I feel that elements of the franchise always benefit from having a detailed explanation of their mechanics *cough* medichlorians *cough*.  I just think that there's a really simple, obvious reason for randos not to favor lightsabers over blasters the way force-users do.

Torturing a crystal.... 

[karajorma]

He's dismissing EU as far as I can tell?

That stuff about torturing crystals sure as hell doesn't come from one of the films. So unless it's from one of the ridiculous number of Star Wars shows, where is it from?