Poll

What is your favourite capital ship in Freespace 2 (try to pick Shivan and Terran)

Sathanas
Lucifer (Not in the game I know, but it can be placed in FRED)
Orion
Colossus
Leviathan
Ravana
Demon
Rakshasa
Sobek
Hatsheput
Iceni
Cain
Lilith (practically same as cain but oh well)
Hippocrates
Arcadia (more of a base really but still It's a significant installation)
Deimos
Aeolous

Author Topic: Favourite Cap ship  (Read 46342 times)

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Offline Zoltan

  • 26
     UM, Becuase it's YELLOW. And all beams from Vasudan ships are YELLOW. And all beams from Terran ships are GREEN. Just as all ships from Shivan ships are RED? Really, did you even play the game? This stuff is thematic and plain common sense. If someone's playing FS2 for the first time and late in the campaign a terran ships fires a yellow beam, they're going to think "someone ****ed up, it should be firing a green beam."

     Now if someone wants to design some fancy new ship and say it's a hybrid design that mounts Vasudan weapons be my guest.
     But from a purely in-game perspective, vasudan fires yellow, terran fires green and shivans fire red. And anything contrary to that is wrong as established by the entire 30 missions of the CANON FS2 campaign.

So Terran Turrets are actually Vasudan? Well that is certainly a revelation. :rolleyes:

Also you just gave precedence for why it would be easy to recognize that Vasudans use Terran weapons in the form of Terran Huge Turrets.

Also, technically the Deimos is a hybrid, so...
"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five." - Groucho Marx

 

Offline Mars

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Honestly if all the evidence you have is that Terran Turrets are yellow, you have a really shakey argument there

 

Offline Droid803

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My entire point was to say that the Deimos is designed by both Terrans and Vasudans, with the Vasudans designing the reactors, meaning, it has a Vasudan power grid. It actually makes more sense for it to mount VSlash than TerSlash, since the hull may be Terran, the crew may be Terran, but the power plant is Vasudan, and from the Typhon/Hatshepsut description, the power plant has a lot to do with beams. The Deimos isn't strictly a Terran vessel.

The Colossus could fire Yellow beams as well. It's also a hybrid.

Speaking of Tables:
Quote
their Vasudan-designed reactor core provides more energy per ton than any other allied ship class.
(´・ω・`)
=============================================================

 
So Terran Turrets are actually Vasudan? Well that is certainly a revelation. :rolleyes:

Also you just gave precedence for why it would be easy to recognize that Vasudans use Terran weapons in the form of Terran Huge Turrets.

Also, technically the Deimos is a hybrid, so...

     Er, wow. Do you have any argument beyond "why not?"
     Let me give you a little history lesson. Back in the day there was a game called "Freespace 1". In Freespace 1, vasudan and terran capital ships didn't have beams. They had two types of turrets, turrets that fired little yellow blobs and turrets that fired big green blobs. They weren't vasudan turrets, and they werent terran turrets, they were simply ship turrets. That's what capital ships fired. Similarly, terran and vasudan fighters fired the same gun, the ML-16. Though of course, without going OUTSIDE the game, the player flying his ship would never know that they are actually the same guns. Nor would they know that the turrets were named "TerranTurret". The only thing they might realize the Vasudan ship missile weapon (Flux Mortar) was different than the Terran one since they have different firing cycles.

But as of Freespace 1, from an in-universe player's perspective we have we have:
Non-Shivan Ship Weapons:
   Little yellow blob
   Big Green blob
   Missiles

    Then we get Freespace 2, and right from the first mission, "Surrender Belisarius" we see that terran ships (Deimos) fire green beams, while the Vasudan ships (Hatshepsut) fire yellow beams. And oddly enough, as we continue to play the game we continue to see this happen . . Vasudan ships always fire yellow, terrans always fire green. Then the Colossus comes along, and what's the first thing we learn about it? It's got a terran captain, or at least, when it talks, some human guy's on the comm and not a Vasudan. So, it fires green beams. Later on, we learn it's a joint project but in the game it's a largely terran weapon . . . heck it even has Neo-terran saboteurs on it to help the Iceni escape through the Knossos. And some other weapons are introduced but, they're used by both so it's not really a big deal.

So as of Freespace 2, from again an in-universe player's perspective we have:
Non-Shivan Ship Weapons:
   Little yellow blob
   Big Green blob
   Missiles
   Flak Guns
   Blue anti-fighter beams

   And on top of that there's:
Vasudan Beams:
   Yellow/Gold ship-to-ship beams

Terran Beams:
   Green ship-to-ship beams
   
   And that's about it.


   As for the Deimos reactors, it's quite frankly irrelevant if they're Vasudan designed. A reactor is a reactor. This isn't magic the gathering where Vasudan reactors give yellow mana to fire yellow beams, and terran reactors give green mana to fire green beams. They all simply give power. And the only thing that piece of fluff tells you is that the Vasudans and Terrans are co-operating more closely and involved in more joint-development projects.


   So go ahead and FRED a mission where the Deimos has VSlash, you'll have everyone who plays it thinking "Why the hell does the terran corvette have vasudan weapons on it?". Some people will even ask why, most will probably just roll their eyes and enjoy the mission a little less than they would have otherwise.

 

Offline ShadowGorrath

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Vasudans in FS1 had vasudan light lasers.

As for the Colossus talking-guy. Remember the mission where you had to escort the Aquitane ? The guy from the Aquitane, who talked to the pilots wasn't Petrarch. So the commanding admiral of the Colossus can be a vasudan. And those "NTF saboteurs" were SOC operatives, not NTF. You can understand that if you pay attention to the whole Iceni operations- SOC needed info on ETAK so the Iceni had to survive.

 

Offline Droid803

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   As for the Deimos reactors, it's quite frankly irrelevant if they're Vasudan designed. A reactor is a reactor. This isn't magic the gathering where Vasudan reactors give yellow mana to fire yellow beams, and terran reactors give green mana to fire green beams. They all simply give power. And the only thing that piece of fluff tells you is that the Vasudans and Terrans are co-operating more closely and involved in more joint-development projects.

I would beg to differ:

 :lol:

---
errr...never mind...
Yea, surei t makes more sense to the new player, but we're talking about possibility, not "does it happen in the game".
Sure, it'd look a little funny, but theoretically, it would work.
(´・ω・`)
=============================================================

 

Offline blowfish

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And those "NTF saboteurs" were SOC operatives, not NTF.

We don't know that for sure.  It seems probable that the GTVI wanted the Colossus's weapons to be inoperational when the Iceni arrived, but the saboteurs could have been NTF that the GTVI knew was there, but did nothing about, or partially NTF and partially SOC operatives (who gave the NTF guys access to the Colossus), though given how important they thought ETAK was, it seems that SOC had some involvement in the sabotage.

 
Vasudans in FS1 had vasudan light lasers.

As for the Colossus talking-guy. Remember the mission where you had to escort the Aquitane ? The guy from the Aquitane, who talked to the pilots wasn't Petrarch. So the commanding admiral of the Colossus can be a vasudan. And those "NTF saboteurs" were SOC operatives, not NTF. You can understand that if you pay attention to the whole Iceni operations- SOC needed info on ETAK so the Iceni had to survive.

      The Colossus may have a Vasudan commander but it has a terran face as a representative. Therefore it's terran.
      As for the saboteurs, it's unconfirmed who they were. Remember than it was Command that gave Alpha flight the wrong co-ordinates to intercept the Iceni, and command that pulled the blockade allowing the ships to escape . .. and yet later it was command who was pissed that the Colossus wasn't doing its job. So basically, it's looking like Command initially allows the Iceni to escape and in a later mission the Iceni escaping wasn't a part of the plan. Or so it seems. Maybe the command guy is a good actor, who knows.

 

Offline ShadowGorrath

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It's SOC ! They probably changed the coordinates at the last second. And as for the blockade- SOC probably ordered to reprioritize it somewhere else, so Command was outranked by SOC and had to comply.

 

Offline blowfish

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I think command knows what's going on...

 
It's SOC ! They probably changed the coordinates at the last second. And as for the blockade- SOC probably ordered to reprioritize it somewhere else, so Command was outranked by SOC and had to comply.

    How can Command be outranked by SOC? Command is Command, there's no level above command because if there was then Command would no longer in Command.
    I haven't played it in a while, but I'm guessing SOC (ie Special Operations Command) is simply the black ops section of Command and while undoubtable separate from normal operations, they are still subordinate to the overall Command hierarchy.

    The idea that SOC is some separate uber powerful organization controlling everything behind the scenes is a lie perpetuated by fan-based campaigns. Because really, what do we REALLY know about SOC?

1. They plant agents into enemy forces to act as spies
2. They're full of elite pilots and as such receive the new fighters first.
3. They have access to at least one AWACs and the new troop transports (though not necessarily on an unlimited basis)
4. They've flown at least one mission using captured Mara fighters
5. Some pilots who fly with the SOC are not "in for life" and are transferred back to regular duty between operations.


      Whereas other ideas like SOC having a fleet, or even any non-fighter ships permanently assigned to them, or them having any authority over command is simply a bunch of fantasy created by aspiring campaign creators.

 

Offline Snail

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    The idea that SOC is some separate uber powerful organization controlling everything behind the scenes is a lie perpetuated by fan-based campaigns.
I believe that was the case for the GTI and the GTA. I hope STR makes the GTI more badass. ;7

 

Offline ShadowGorrath

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SOC got Erinyes BEFORE they were even announced by the GTVA to public. SOC is SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND. The name itself states that they are higher in rank than normal Command.

 
SOC got Erinyes BEFORE they were even announced by the GTVA to public. SOC is SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND. The name itself states that they are higher in rank than normal Command.

    The hell it does.
    The name says they're in Command of Special Operations. PERIOD.
    And yeah, big deal on the Erinyes. How long did the United States have the F-117 Stealth Bomber before it was announced to the public? You've been watching the discovery channel too much if you think militaries tell the world about all their new toys. Here's quote from Wikipedia:

Quote
The Lockheed F-117 Nighthawk is a stealth ground attack aircraft operated solely by the United States Air Force. The F-117A's first flight was in 1981, and it achieved Initial Operational Capability status in October 1983.[1] The F-117A came out of secrecy and was revealed to the world in November 1988.[2]

     Incase you missed it, the F-117A became an operational fighter in 1983. Then it was revealed to the world FIVE YEARS LATER. Having the Erinyes operational in a limited capacity before becoming wide-spread knowledge is status quo, not "proof that the SOC roxxors, omg yay!"



      Let me give you another real-world example.
      In Afrika in World War 2 there was the British/Commonwealth army which had a bunch of tanks and infantry guys, etcetera etcetera. Then aside from them, there was the Red Devils, basically british paratroopers/commandos who didn't do much parachuting but instead rode around the desert in trucks, behind enemy lines, scouting and shooting the crap out of German supply trucks and generally were a big nuisance, etcetera.
      So on the one hand, you have the normal military. Which is doing it's job as per normal, fighting the german and italian panzers across the desert. Then you have the Commandos, who are contributing to the larger war effort but are largely doing their own thing, acting autonomously etcetera.

       Now in terms of freespace, the Red Devil Commandos would be the SOC. And the rest of the Brits would be the normal GTVA military. They're both working under Command, and both working towards the same goal but the SOC/Commando operations are not standard operations, they're SPECIAL OPERATIONS which benefit the larger war effort but are largely removed from regular fighting. They don't give orders to anyone, but they have their own separate and subordinate command structure.


       So in a nutshell, SOC is a tool of Command. Just a special tool, because they're specialized in convert ops. But for the sake of secrecy and efficiency, they have their own special command structure subordinate to command but outside the regular military.

       Because really, what are the SOC missions? There are basically ONLY two kinds:
1. Reconnaissance behind enemy lines through infiltration (posing as NTF, posing as Shivan)
2. Extraction of reconnaissance members

       Though perhaps the one mission with enemy fighters exploding everywhere would count as a "raid" of sorts.


       Infact, I just remembered something. You think Command is Subordinate to SOC?
       Remember the mission, where you're flying along and your NTF buddies think you're a spy so they tell you to attack some civilian transport? What happens if you do attack it? Command says your a traitor basically and basically wants to kill you. NOW, if you as SOC were really above command, couldn't you attack that transport without problems? You're SOC, you can do what you want. Oh wait, no, you can't do what you want . . .because Command is in Command not the SOC.

 

Offline blowfish

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I actually wonder how high up the chain of command the character we know as "Command" is ... he certainly seems to know what's going on, and appears to have authority over just about everyone we meet.  Regardless, I'm sure he is below someone though (namely the Security Council).

 

Offline Mars

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He's one in a long line of black Volition characters that know everything: See Red Faction

 

Offline Droid803

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Ahah...so, that's who he is!
(´・ω・`)
=============================================================

 
He's one in a long line of black Volition characters that know everything: See Red Faction

    Would you rather Morpheus from the Matrix was giving you orders, or Forrest Gump? Even though Command's head is a little small for Morpheus :P

  

Offline Mars

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No, I'm just saying he bears a striking resembelence.

Hendrix's voice was much higher however,

 
I would say SOC works separately from Command. Then again, with the GTI Rebellion, there a chance the GTVI and SOC were putted on a leash. Though I'd still like to think that SOC works independently from Command.

Also, I never really understood why the GTI rebelled. I mean, what was their motive?