Author Topic: MechWarrior Online  (Read 189369 times)

0 Members and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.


 

Offline headdie

  • i don't use punctuation lol
  • 212
  • Lawful Neutral with a Chaotic outook
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Twitter
    • Headdie on Deviant Art
In two years, prepare for the Clan Invasion.

excelent, time to get slaughtered.
Minister of Interstellar Affairs Sol Union - Retired
quote General Battuta - "FRED is canon!"
Contact me at [email protected]
My Release Thread, Old Release Thread, Celestial Objects Thread, My rubbish attempts at art

 

Offline Al-Rik

  • 27
This betrays an indication that you don't really know how BattleTech works.  There is no uber-gun.  Everything has a downside (except perhaps Clan weapons, but this game takes place before the universe even knows the exist, so that's a moot point).

indeed weapons are balanced for different situations.

Have you ever played the Boardgame ?  :D

Forget all Weapons besides the Medium Lasers. Best Ratio of Damage (5/6/7) to Heat (3/4/5) to Tonnage (1/2/1). Stats for MediumLaser/Medium Pulse Laser/Clan ER-Medium Laser.
The low Range of 3/6/9 Hexes (Medium Laser) is not a problem because the limited Battlefield in the Boardgame.

All other Weapons, especially the   Autocannons and Missles have much lower damage for higher tonnage and heat.
Example:
SRM 2: 2 missiles, if both hit 2x2 Points of Damage. It generates 2 points of Heat, weight is 1 ton for the launcher and 1 ton for the ammo (50 Salvos). In 60% only 1 missile hits causing 2 points of damage.
A medium laser does 5 Points of damage, has a weight of 1 ton, and needs no ammo. Yes, it makes 1 point more heat, but thats not a problem because each mech has at least 10 heat sinks.

 

Offline headdie

  • i don't use punctuation lol
  • 212
  • Lawful Neutral with a Chaotic outook
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Twitter
    • Headdie on Deviant Art
This betrays an indication that you don't really know how BattleTech works.  There is no uber-gun.  Everything has a downside (except perhaps Clan weapons, but this game takes place before the universe even knows the exist, so that's a moot point).

indeed weapons are balanced for different situations.

Have you ever played the Boardgame ?  :D

Forget all Weapons besides the Medium Lasers. Best Ratio of Damage (5/6/7) to Heat (3/4/5) to Tonnage (1/2/1). Stats for MediumLaser/Medium Pulse Laser/Clan ER-Medium Laser.
The low Range of 3/6/9 Hexes (Medium Laser) is not a problem because the limited Battlefield in the Boardgame.

All other Weapons, especially the   Autocannons and Missles have much lower damage for higher tonnage and heat.
Example:
SRM 2: 2 missiles, if both hit 2x2 Points of Damage. It generates 2 points of Heat, weight is 1 ton for the launcher and 1 ton for the ammo (50 Salvos). In 60% only 1 missile hits causing 2 points of damage.
A medium laser does 5 Points of damage, has a weight of 1 ton, and needs no ammo. Yes, it makes 1 point more heat, but thats not a problem because each mech has at least 10 heat sinks.

admittedly my comments are based on the computer games, MW4 and MC, ( MW 3 though played dont count when discussing the rules because i think they threw the rule book out the window for that one ) where range is a factor and I have noticed some discrepancy presumably for balance reasons between them and stats i have seen between games and looking on sarna.net
Minister of Interstellar Affairs Sol Union - Retired
quote General Battuta - "FRED is canon!"
Contact me at [email protected]
My Release Thread, Old Release Thread, Celestial Objects Thread, My rubbish attempts at art

 
I think even in the computer games, medium lasers were that good. Not as satisfying as heavys or ERPPCs, but you can fit so many that they pack almost the same punch.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Komodo and/or Nova Prime 4lyfe

Also ahahahaha MW3 threw the rulebook out the window. No. It actually adhered to it significantly more closely than MW4 did.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 08:38:05 pm by NGTM-1R »
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline Scotty

  • 1.21 gigawatts!
  • Moderator
  • 211
  • Guns, guns, guns.
This betrays an indication that you don't really know how BattleTech works.  There is no uber-gun.  Everything has a downside (except perhaps Clan weapons, but this game takes place before the universe even knows the exist, so that's a moot point).

indeed weapons are balanced for different situations.

Have you ever played the Boardgame ?  :D

Forget all Weapons besides the Medium Lasers. Best Ratio of Damage (5/6/7) to Heat (3/4/5) to Tonnage (1/2/1). Stats for MediumLaser/Medium Pulse Laser/Clan ER-Medium Laser.
The low Range of 3/6/9 Hexes (Medium Laser) is not a problem because the limited Battlefield in the Boardgame.

All other Weapons, especially the   Autocannons and Missles have much lower damage for higher tonnage and heat.
Example:
SRM 2: 2 missiles, if both hit 2x2 Points of Damage. It generates 2 points of Heat, weight is 1 ton for the launcher and 1 ton for the ammo (50 Salvos). In 60% only 1 missile hits causing 2 points of damage.
A medium laser does 5 Points of damage, has a weight of 1 ton, and needs no ammo. Yes, it makes 1 point more heat, but thats not a problem because each mech has at least 10 heat sinks.

You are the kind of player who has no soul and should be stoned when he takes the field.

That is all.

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Yes, in a one-on-one, one map duel, the Medium lasers reign supreme.

In any other configuration (like, say, a 4-on-4, 4 map lance match), not so much. Then the whole equation looks vastly different all of a sudden, as your medium-range specialist suddenly finds itself unable to get into optimum range without being hammered by heavy weapons.

And yes, going for a config like that screams "noob tube" to more experienced players.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline Al-Rik

  • 27
In any other configuration (like, say, a 4-on-4, 4 map lance match), not so much. Then the whole equation looks vastly different all of a sudden, as your medium-range specialist suddenly finds itself unable to get into optimum range without being hammered by heavy weapons.
Depends on the Map and on the setup of the scenario.

A Battletech-Map has 19 area of 19x17 hexes. If you move 6 Hexes per turn, you can fire after the 2nd turn.
1nd  turn: moving from 18 to 12 hexes = Medium range for PPC, to hit number: 4 + 2 (medium range) +2 (5 or more hexes moved) = 10 with 2d6
2nd turn:  moving from 12 to 16 hexes = short range for PPC, to hit number: 4 + 0 (short range) +2 (5 or more hexes moved) = 8 with 2d6

If you change the map layout to 4 Maps and use additional maps if someone leaves the maps it's different. That gives you more room to move and improve the sense of long range weapons.

But over all, the construction system and the weapons of the Boardgame is pretty IMBA ;)

 

Offline Scotty

  • 1.21 gigawatts!
  • Moderator
  • 211
  • Guns, guns, guns.
Your posts, all they tell me is that you've never been solidly smacked down like you should for using designs that are practically pre-patch akimbo '87s in Modern Warfare 2.

Eventually you'll find someone who can and will repeatedly smack you into the ground until you learn to open the range a bit and use something besides Medium Lasers.  The board game is balanced up until the point where someone deliberately unbalances it with munched out 'Mechs.

 

Offline Mikes

  • 29
This betrays an indication that you don't really know how BattleTech works.  There is no uber-gun.  Everything has a downside (except perhaps Clan weapons, but this game takes place before the universe even knows the exist, so that's a moot point).

1. Even while adhering to the boardgame rules you could easily implement über weapons for cash: LosTech anyone?  ...or how about simply adding special Mech Hangers for heavy/überheavy Mechs. What, you thought that would be free? ;) Heck... for all we know we could start out in a 20ton mech with nothing else but MGs and light lasers and anything else would have to be "earned" through grind or $$$. Sorry to toss that right back at ya, but you are sadly displaying a huge ignorance of how socallled *free to play* games usually work.

2. Certain weapons or even Mechs with linked weapons that all hit the same spot (i.e.anything that has a huge damage number that gets applied to a single target location) already have the intrinsic potential to become "Über" if you allow for manual targeting in a computer game. (With Boardgame rules we would not only have to be the best pilot imaginable, but would also require a targeting computer (Clan Tech) and even then we'd have trouble reaching the pinpoint accuracy we are so casually used to in the Mechwarrior games.)

3. If you think a game, especially a *free to play game* even has to adhere to Boardgame rules to the letter... because uhm...it's Battletech?... then I got a couple of bridges to sell ya...


I mean really... I'd love to have a fully featured Battletech game that rocks... so I would really wish I am wrong ;) But I'm not that prone to wishful thinking, especially not when talking about a *free to play* MMO...  in that case: guilty until proven otherwise. With that genre, anything else would just be naive and guillible.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 03:42:02 am by Mikes »

 

Offline Al-Rik

  • 27
Your posts, all they tell me is that you've never been solidly smacked down like you should for using designs that are practically pre-patch akimbo '87s in Modern Warfare 2.
Why do you think I use those designs ?

I have played the Boardgame for 5 years in a Chapter, competing against other Chapter on conventions.
The Mechs in the Chapters Roster have been de terminated by a roll on a House/Clan specific table.
All damage was carried to the next battle at the same con, destroyed Mechs were removed from the Rooster.


My first Mech was a Standard 3025 Marauder (2xPPC 1xAc5 2xMedium Laser, 16 Heat Sinks) and I played it for 2 Years until a lucky shoot in the Ammobin destroyed it.
Next Mech was a Standard Centurion also played for 2 Years (CT destroyed)
Last Mech was a Standard Withwort played for a Year

Actuality only play once or twice a Year  - and for a Week at a large scale Scenario with 70 players.

Eventually you'll find someone who can and will repeatedly smack you into the ground until you learn to open the range a bit and use something besides Medium Lasers.  The board game is balanced up until the point where someone deliberately unbalances it with munched out 'Mechs.
Nothing is balanced, and you have to set the rules of the scenario (map layout, mechs, ect...) to balancing it.

If you want to play a real balanced game you have to take a look to dreampod 9s Heavy Gear oder Steve Jacksons Car Wars - both games with a much better design. ;)

 

Offline Scotty

  • 1.21 gigawatts!
  • Moderator
  • 211
  • Guns, guns, guns.
This betrays an indication that you don't really know how BattleTech works.  There is no uber-gun.  Everything has a downside (except perhaps Clan weapons, but this game takes place before the universe even knows the exist, so that's a moot point).

1. Even while adhering to the boardgame rules you could easily implement über weapons for cash: LosTech anyone?  ...or how about simply adding special Mech Hangers for heavy/überheavy Mechs. What, you thought that would be free? ;) Heck... for all we know we could start out in a 20ton mech with nothing else but MGs and light lasers and anything else would have to be "earned" through grind or $$$. Sorry to toss that right back at ya, but you are sadly displaying a huge ignorance of how socallled *free to play* games usually work.

2. Certain weapons or even Mechs with linked weapons that all hit the same spot (i.e.anything that has a huge damage number that gets applied to a single target location) already have the intrinsic potential to become "Über" if you allow for manual targeting in a computer game. (With Boardgame rules we would not only have to be the best pilot imaginable, but would also require a targeting computer (Clan Tech) and even then we'd have trouble reaching the pinpoint accuracy we are so casually used to in the Mechwarrior games.)

3. If you think a game, especially a *free to play game* even has to adhere to Boardgame rules to the letter... because uhm...it's Battletech?... then I got a couple of bridges to sell ya...


I mean really... I'd love to have a fully featured Battletech game that rocks... so I would really wish I am wrong ;) But I'm not that prone to wishful thinking, especially not when talking about a *free to play* MMO...  in that case: guilty until proven otherwise. With that genre, anything else would just be naive and guillible.


Wow.  it's like you read the part of my post about how it's possible to have a F2P MMO with some benefits for paying and then completely ignored the example I brought up where NOTHING AT ALL LIKE THIS HAPPENS.

Excuse my personal experience with the genre, it's obviously borne of naivete and gullibility.

 

Offline Liberator

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 210
My experience is MC and MC2 exclusively.  And XPulses on a Cougar or a Stiletto seem to be pretty powerful.  A Centurion with 2 small pulses, and PPC(Clan ER if available) and 3 LRM pretty well stomps anything in it's weight class and a pair of them seems like even odds vs most heavies.  Of course, since I know next to nothing about the time line, I might be a century ahead of what will be in this.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline Scotty

  • 1.21 gigawatts!
  • Moderator
  • 211
  • Guns, guns, guns.
My experience is MC and MC2 exclusively.  And XPulses on a Cougar or a Stiletto seem to be pretty powerful.  A Centurion with 2 small pulses, and PPC(Clan ER if available) and 3 LRM pretty well stomps anything in it's weight class and a pair of them seems like even odds vs most heavies.  Of course, since I know next to nothing about the time line, I might be a century ahead of what will be in this.

The time the game is set is between two and three years before the Clans make their appearance.

The Cougar doesn't show up for another 10 after that.  And besides that, why in the name of all that is good and decent would you mount an X-Pulse, when you can use the Clan version that does more damage, for less tonnage, with less heat and more range?

LRMs don't work the same way in the boardgame as in MC.  A Centurion with PPC, two small pulse lasers, and an LRM 5 (nearest equivalent) is underweigh by half a ton once you add enough extra heat sinks to balance load, and also significantly less effective than if you just mounted medium lasers or ERMLs.  And also going to be eaten alive by any of the 55-ton trio excepting maybe the Shadow Hawk 2H.  CERPPC would leave you with another ton left over and a heat problem.

At any rate, I expect two of something to going against something less than twice their weight to come out on top, pretty much regardless of how good or bad the 'Mechs involved are.

 

Offline Liberator

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 210
Like I said, my experience is pure Mechcommander and Mechcommander 2, in both games heat is not an in mission thing to worry about.  It doesn't exist in MC1 and in MC2 it's just another loadout gauge to work against in a min/max sort of way and as long as you come in under the max equipment tonnage and heat on the bar, the mech deploys.

Also, as far as coming in under weight on the Centurion, there are 3 default configurations for all mechs in MC2, a W variant that sacrifices armor for weapons(it has more loadout and less HP), an A variant that has more HP and less loadout and a jump jet variant with the loadout of the A with the HP of the W but is more mobile.  The Centurion W will mount 3 LRM, a PPC and 3 light lasers using IS tech only.  If you switch to Clan tech, you can add another LRM and an ER-PPC and replace all the light lasers with ER-Light Lasers making it a fairly hard hitting mech at medium range.  And two of these would probably get wiped by a single Mad Cat since it can alpha strike from the same range with the same amount of weaponry all into one medium, the first Mad Cat you encounter in the MC1 campaign basically kills your entire team(my usual deployment was a Centurion and 3 Commandos) if you don't use a fuel depot to either disable or destroy it(usually the latter).
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 
Liberator, you should probably play MechWarrior 3 and the MekTek release of MW4 Mercenaries.  Those games will give you a better idea of what weapons are capable of and their tonnage/ammo/heat drawbacks.
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

  

Offline Commander Zane

  • 212
  • Spoot Knight of Anvils
I wish I could even run either one. MW3 just crashes when I hit Start Mission after going through the compatability workarounds and MW4 just works when it feels like it  (One out of every 20 tries to start), and doesn't let me use my joystick.

 

Offline Scotty

  • 1.21 gigawatts!
  • Moderator
  • 211
  • Guns, guns, guns.
Like I said, my experience is pure Mechcommander and Mechcommander 2, in both games heat is not an in mission thing to worry about.  It doesn't exist in MC1 and in MC2 it's just another loadout gauge to work against in a min/max sort of way and as long as you come in under the max equipment tonnage and heat on the bar, the mech deploys.

I'm very aware of now the MC series works, having played both of them for a very long time.  I was telling you how the effectiveness of a unit should not be judged by how it performs in the MC series.  Heat management changes a lot, and so do critical slot requirements for different kinds of equipment (it works very differently everywhere else)

Except that Timberwolf probably would legitimately wipe the floor with three Commandos and a Centurion.  Depends on the variant.

 

Offline Nuke

  • Ka-Boom!
  • 212
  • Mutants Worship Me
I wish I could even run either one. MW3 just crashes when I hit Start Mission after going through the compatability workarounds and MW4 just works when it feels like it  (One out of every 20 tries to start), and doesn't let me use my joystick.

i never could get mw3 to run stable on any of my rigs. i need to get a nostalgia rig with a win98 instal i think. i got a machine upstairs that might work, but i havent tried it yet.
mw4 with the mektek packs is epic and well suited for a lan party. but i really like mechwarrior living legends. your not confined to just mechs, the graphics are awesome, the gameplay is hella fun. it just doesnt have single player, so you end up fighting a bunch of battletech geeks and get slaughtered like freebirth swine.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN