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[dump] Blackwater Operations

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Fusion:

--- Quote from: Nightmare on July 30, 2024, 11:10:45 am ---I think there is a big difference between fixing the missions ("functional") and having a "complete campaign". Probably the most accurate statement on BWOs progress was "the missions dont communicate what they're supposed to". Having played and actually worked on BWO like half a decade ago, I remember that a lot of the worldbuilding did not make sense or wasn't coherent, but if I look at Aces explinations regarding the plot in the other thread they were in fact intentional, just that nobody remembered why, say, all of Sol was declared a ragtag army in techroom descriptions when they clearly were pretty strong. Unless you were part of the original (2000s era) dev team a fair ammount of the plot and everything tied to it will not make sense, and will not unless a major edit (either in favor of the original vision or a different one).

--- End quote ---

Having played through the campaign 3 times now for bug testing (piecemeal, the campaign itself still has enough issues that a proper playthrough from start to finish to both endings isn't doable yet), the story seems sound and cohesive. Incidentally, about 90% of the bugs have been quashed, albeit the Magtorps are definitely gonna need a significant nerf. At least 3, maybe 4 missions that are impossible to complete properly due to how strong they are, even with them having gotten the nerf bat.


--- Quote from: Ace on July 30, 2024, 05:32:12 pm ---I do support technical fixes for missions and I have provided comments for the campaign file. I do not support dialog rewrites proposed to missions that are being floated as "bug fixes."

I do not support this line of discussion of current community members wanting to rewrite or "remaster" BWO in their own image. Or framing it as making it "complete." Of course there is nothing I can do to stop someone from doing their own version, other than state it does not have my support or consent.
--- End quote ---

As the guy who snagged the copy, there's been zero dialog rewrites and frankly it's not worth the effort to "remaster" given so much as sneezing on the campaign seems to break it. So far as "complete" goes, you gave the mission list, and the campaign follows it to the letter. The fully debugged release should be exactly as was described - every mission should be fully playable, and people will be able to play the campaign from start to finish. Frankly the only thing I've talked with Nelson about doing that wouldn't follow the original mod would be taking a page out of Scrolls and having a second campaign set up at the split, so players don't have to replay the campaign from start to finish just to play the other path for the third act. Again, if the worry is that BWO's story, writing, missions, or campaign are going to somehow be altered in any way that does not involve making them work as intended, then there's no need to worry, since that isn't happening.


--- Quote from: Ace on July 30, 2024, 05:32:12 pm ---I want to be clear, this leak is a massive breach of community trust. HLP admins having access to a project SVN and FTP in this manner is incredibly problematic.
--- End quote ---

I'm a little confused on this - what HLP admin has access to the BWO SVN? The only other people who have access to the SVN being used to bugfix are Nelson (handling the bug fixing), Goober (made the SVN after I asked so updates to the mod can be done more easily), and possibly Colt (made a fix for the SMB Medusa, but can't remember if it was included by Nelson in the SVN). I don't believe any of them are current admins (I know Goober used to be one, but he's just staff on keeping the FSU stuff going now iirc). I'm not exactly sure how this can be "problematic" when to my knowledge no one actively working on bugfixing has even seen the original BWO SVN - I don't even know if there is or was one at any point. I just snagged the Mediafire copy.


--- Quote from: Ace on July 30, 2024, 05:32:12 pm ---I think both BD and I are taking the high ground on this, with the "release with critical bug fixes" stance to make the best of this.
--- End quote ---

I mean, that's basically been the plan since the initial dump turned out to be more bug-ridden than a log full of termites. I don't get why people are either being concerned over the plot being changed (it won't be) or, frankly, why they'd think the plot would be changed given how long it's been (which makes no sense). It really wouldn't be worth trying to change the story of a twenty-year old basically complete mod when there are other campaigns in active development and the only thing BWO needs is significant bug fixing to work with the current FSO and MVP versions. Again, there's no reason to be concerned that the story, plot, lore, missions, or campaign will be changed in any way from what they were intended to be, if for no other reason than it wouldn't be worth the effort.

Ace:
Considering IceFire handed the project to BlackDove, and BlackDove was clear about preserving plot points, I must view that statement on rewrites to be factually incorrect.

The specifics of SVN or a Mediafire leak from another source is irrelevant. The key point is the breach of community trust by the leak and other statements are merely to obscure that simple truth.

Fusion:
A sincere question: if the mod hadn't been leaked by a former team member, and others and I weren't working to get the mod functional to a point where it could be enjoyed as it was, per you, explicitly intended, would anyone from the BWO team have finished the mod at some indeterminate point in the future and released it to the public? I'm genuinely curious because both answers to that raise other questions that are admittedly a bit confusing insofar as the concern regarding the bugfixed campaign.

Colonol Dekker:
I don't think they would, if they could it wouldn't have been dumped.

Ace:
Blackdove raised the issues regarding this dump already.

Again this is a breach of trust and this alleged former team member made no effort to reach out to other active community members who were involved with BWO to address the very valid concerns raised about releasing it versus letting it it.

If the campaign is in such a sorry state, why permit this leak at all? Let it die? Unless of course the actual reason are tied to the concerns Blackdove raised.

There are very valid reasons to be concerned 1) on the very fact this leak happened and 2) the rationale behind this leak

Actually making an effort to reach out to the different former team members and being clear "this was a warts and all data dump" is a bare minimum.

To hammer home how problematic this issue is: members of the Diaspora team worked for BtRL. We have FS Open assets for Galactica and the Viper MK2. We have not leaked it because although some of those assets were done by Omni and other arists as well he raised concerns, like Blackdove, about them being released in the "wild."

How is this different than "a former BtrL member" deciding to violate that trust?

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