Hard Light Productions Forums

General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: DarthWang on April 15, 2009, 09:16:50 am

Title: Doorstop strategy
Post by: DarthWang on April 15, 2009, 09:16:50 am: I tried to explain this earlier in the "easy way to take down a Sathanas" thread but it was locked, so I want to explain something I've discovered. I call it the "Doorstop Strategy". First you take a capship (corvette, usually Sobek, works best) and place it right in front of a Sathanas, so close that it's actually in the space between the "arms". It will be too close for the BFReds to target, and the Sathanas will be unable to turn without colliding with it, which will keep it stuck in place until the corvette is destroyed (hence the "doorstop" name). This leaves the Sathanas open to attacks by capships on its other flanks!

This takes a lot of trial and error to set up, but it does work.
Title: Re: Doorstop strategy
Post by: The E on April 15, 2009, 09:28:05 am: This could be a major "breaking the fourth wall" moment, however. If I understand you correctly, your method is based on the AI's behaviour when confronted with a possible collision between two capships. A real Sathanas wouldn't really care about squashing a Sobek and just plow it under, IMHO.
Title: Re: Doorstop strategy
Post by: Rodo on April 15, 2009, 09:29:56 am: that's way difficult if not impossible to acomplish in real life (if FS could be real someday).

how can you make the corvette come so close to the sathanas without coliding and without being powned by the forward beams first?...

and even if the corvette can reach that blind spot.. what will impide shivans to throw a hole lot of bombers to blast it to hell?... or turning the sath and coliding it with the corvette itself... it's not like the shivans would really care about one single sath IMO, and also a single corvette does not have the firepower to destroy the sath by itself... it would be like don quijote against the windmills.
Title: Re: Doorstop strategy
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on April 15, 2009, 09:34:07 am: Quote from: Rodo on April 15, 2009, 09:29:56 am
that's way difficult if not impossible to acomplish in real life (if FS could be real someday).

how can you make the corvette come so close to the sathanas without coliding and without being powned by the forward beams first?...

and even if the corvette can reach that blind spot.. what will impide shivans to throw a hole lot of bombers to blast it to hell?... or turning the sath and coliding it with the corvette itself... it's not like the shivans would really care about one single sath IMO, and also a single corvette does not have the firepower to destroy the sath by itself... it would be like don quijote against the windmills.

To add to this, remember what the Lucifer did when it arrived at Tombaugh Station as stated in the FreeSpace Reference Bible?

Spoiler:
It collided into several fighters that were in its way.

Given that logic, I'm certain the Shivans will do the exact same thing to a corvette if it tries to block a Sathanas.

Ahem ... CRRRUSH him like a cockroach!
Title: Re: Doorstop strategy
Post by: The E on April 15, 2009, 09:37:12 am: Yeah...The problem with this concept is that Shivans do not seem to care about losses, AT ALL (Capella notwithstanding :D).
Title: Re: Doorstop strategy
Post by: Aardwolf on April 17, 2009, 07:23:30 pm: Considering the relative sizes and top speeds, and assuming the AI would let it and the physics were simulated more smoothly, the Sath wouldn't really 'plow through' the Sobek, it seems to me that it would be more like a go-cart running into a rubber boot hydrant at 5mph.

Edit: I meant a rubber boot. I was originally going to say compact car + fire hydrant and messed up while changing it, but I'm leaving it for the lulz.
Title: Re: Doorstop strategy
Post by: General Battuta on April 17, 2009, 07:36:40 pm: Now this would be a great place for Mobius to talk about the difference between game and universe, because here it fits well.
Title: Re: Doorstop strategy
Post by: Droid803 on April 17, 2009, 07:37:02 pm: The Sath would just flak it to death with it's two LR Flaks...
...or it'd attempt warp out and SMACK the Sobek for MASSIVE DAMAGE.
Title: Re: Doorstop strategy
Post by: Aardwolf on April 17, 2009, 07:41:30 pm: Warping out, I hadn't considered. We know a fighter won't warp out if something is in the way (at least the computer will abort if you try to), but we don't know how much smaller that something could hypothetically be in that context, or whether that's not a 'subspace' issue as much as a "you're an idiot I'm not going to let you smash into the ship" on the part of the computer (or the game designer).

Edit: I just saw a picture in the "A Celebration of FreeSpace" thread, and I may have to revise my theory. A *destroyer* might be sufficient to 'doorstop' a Sathanas, but the Sobek is so itty-bitty-small...
Title: Re: Doorstop strategy
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on April 17, 2009, 09:24:09 pm: The Sobek's a corvette, and you can't stop a 6 km warship with a 0.6 km pea-shooter.
Title: Re: Doorstop strategy
Post by: Mongoose on April 17, 2009, 10:27:08 pm: All you'd be left with are a bunch of itty-bitty Sobek pieces and a Sathanas with a mild scratch to its front paintwork.
Title: Re: Doorstop strategy
Post by: Rodo on April 17, 2009, 10:34:47 pm: yeah... remember the repulse??? so..... what kind of damage did the Colossus sustained after a full speed collition with an orion??
Title: Re: Doorstop strategy
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on April 17, 2009, 10:36:07 pm: 140 000 hull damage.

Keep in mind that the Orion was 2 km compared to the Colossus's 6.
Title: Re: Doorstop strategy
Post by: ssmit132 on April 18, 2009, 01:49:05 am: Quote from: Rodo on April 17, 2009, 10:34:47 pm
yeah... remember the repulse??? so..... what kind of damage did the Colossus sustained after a full speed collition with an orion??
That was an unrealistic collision, though. The Repulse just exploded when it collided with the Colossus. If it was real, the Repulse would probably end up embedded about half a kilometre inside the Colossus' head.

But FreeSpace isn't realistic, so we can ignore that.
Title: Re: Doorstop strategy
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on April 18, 2009, 02:56:23 am: Actually, ssmit, the Repulse does end up inside the Colossus before it explodes. My only guess to this is that the Orion's pivot point has to touch the outside of the Colossus before the explosion occurs.
Title: Re: Doorstop strategy
Post by: Snail on April 18, 2009, 05:59:28 am: Alternatively the Colossus beams the Repulse to death before it even gets there.
Title: Re: Doorstop strategy
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on April 18, 2009, 08:56:20 am: Quote from: Snail on April 18, 2009, 05:59:28 am
Alternatively the Colossus beams the Repulse to death before it even gets there.

The damage done is still the same, though. :wtf:
Title: Re: Doorstop strategy
Post by: Pred the Penguin on April 18, 2009, 09:09:57 am: Maybe that was damage from the explosion?
Title: Re: Doorstop strategy
Post by: Polpolion on April 18, 2009, 09:54:48 am: Maybe the FS engine doesn't support that kind of collision and Volotion counted on the Colossus killing the Repulse before they would've collided?
Title: Re: Doorstop strategy
Post by: BlueFlames on April 18, 2009, 10:19:08 am: Debris impacts cause a lot more damage than ship-to-ship collisions. Usually, when the Colossus destroys the Repulse, pre-impact, the front end of the Repulse smacks the Colossus, doing damage comparable to the kamakazi attack.
Title: Re: Doorstop strategy
Post by: DarthWang on April 18, 2009, 11:08:29 am: Well, ingame, it works.

Locks the Sathy in place and makes it vulnerable to beam attacks from other flanks.

The only two real problems are warping out, and the bombers.

In the mission I made, there was a plot device to prevent the Sathy from warping out. And the Sathy's fighterbay is very far away from the front of the ship where the Sobek is, so the bombers can be easily intercepted if you have enough fighters.
Title: Re: Doorstop strategy
Post by: Snail on April 18, 2009, 01:24:39 pm: Remind me never to play that campaign.