Author Topic: 20th Anniversary of Descent: FreeSpace  (Read 9932 times)

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Offline Black Wolf

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Re: 20th Anniversary of Descent: FreeSpace
Compare freespace to wing commander and freespace graphics win every time.  They're better than standoff too without open adding to the quality.

Also, you can have proper ship-to-ship combat in the Freespace engine, with or without beams. Because of the way the VISION engine implements capital ships, i.e. multiple critical subsystems, no hull HP, everything involving the big ships needs to be heavily scripted. I remember one particularly awkward mission in Standoff where one destroyer launches a large volley of torpedoes that according to fluff shold kill the opposing ship twice over but doesn't because the torpedoes can't hit the engine sections and as long at least one critical subsystem is intact a capital ship isn't dead.

Who thought that was a good design decision? Like I get wanting destroying subsystems to be a valuable thing but that's the weirdest version of that I've seen. Hell Strike Suit Zero just made them do bonus damage to ships (outside of killing turrets) and that worked well.

I don't know, I get what they were trying to do. It's not as though Freespace 1 had a neccesarily better system - you could sit in a blind spot  and plink away with ML-16s into the same insignificant spot in the hull for ten or twenty minutes and the massive 2km plus long destroyer would suddenly just explode.

FS2 did it a little better with huge ships and weapons, but I don't think any of the systems they tried quite made it. There's probably a compromise in the middle though.
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Offline Firesteel

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Re: 20th Anniversary of Descent: FreeSpace
I recently discovered that the EMP missile counted as a bomb because of its shockwave when I was playing through Proving Grounds and the Moloch had 1% left. My wingmen got the kill after bombing it repeatedly with EMPs.

As far as simulation goes, yeah Freespace 1 isn't much better but from a capital ship combat design standpoint it at least allows some more freedom.

The fact that there hasn't been another huge space combat sim going on 20 years is part of why the capital ship combat never was as realistic as it could have been though I think Freespace 2 did a reasonably good job for the times.
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Re: 20th Anniversary of Descent: FreeSpace
Compare freespace to wing commander and freespace graphics win every time.  They're better than standoff too without open adding to the quality.

Also, you can have proper ship-to-ship combat in the Freespace engine, with or without beams. Because of the way the VISION engine implements capital ships, i.e. multiple critical subsystems, no hull HP, everything involving the big ships needs to be heavily scripted. I remember one particularly awkward mission in Standoff where one destroyer launches a large volley of torpedoes that according to fluff shold kill the opposing ship twice over but doesn't because the torpedoes can't hit the engine sections and as long at least one critical subsystem is intact a capital ship isn't dead.

Who thought that was a good design decision? Like I get wanting destroying subsystems to be a valuable thing but that's the weirdest version of that I've seen. Hell Strike Suit Zero just made them do bonus damage to ships (outside of killing turrets) and that worked well.

What kills me is that it means you absolutely couldn't afford to waste your shots on bombing missions, otherwise you might end up short on torpedoes to finish capships off.

 

Offline Novachen

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Re: 20th Anniversary of Descent: FreeSpace
Well i actually think, that the previous Wing Commanders all have a better capship system than Prophecy, yes.
Or to better say, the Prophecy system was a good idea, that went bad. Actually i never know, why an engine should be a critical subsystem you have to destroy to kill a capship. But the main problem in this was the fact, that you were not able to destroy these systems with prolonged fire of your primaries... it had to be a weapon with the "bomb" flag.. to speak it in freespace terms. Actually that you are not able to kill Capships in Freespace 2 with your primaries was also a bad idea IMO... it should be possible, but should only take longer.
Maybe not worth the effort in time, but at least in Silent Hunter 3 i was out of Torpedos and was still able to complete my mission after i sunk that god damn carrier with my on board cannon.


But i have to say, that i think that the general hull system of Freespace is not much better.. it does not matter where the last shot is placed.. the ship explodes, even you hit a region of the hull that was not punched before.

I think the System with the 4 segments in WC1-4 was much better... you were only able to kill a capship if you have caused enough damage in that specific segment.

I think the only game that made this one better than all other games was Klingon Academy IIRC. Actually its damage system is still the best in this genre.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 10:33:14 am by Novachen »
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: 20th Anniversary of Descent: FreeSpace
I don't know, I get what they were trying to do. It's not as though Freespace 1 had a neccesarily better system - you could sit in a blind spot  and plink away with ML-16s into the same insignificant spot in the hull for ten or twenty minutes and the massive 2km plus long destroyer would suddenly just explode.
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Offline Snarks

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Re: 20th Anniversary of Descent: FreeSpace
Is it possible to just make most "small arms" weapons do no damage to capital ships, possibly just destroyers, while keeping subsystems vulnerable.

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: 20th Anniversary of Descent: FreeSpace
I don't know, I get what they were trying to do. It's not as though Freespace 1 had a neccesarily better system - you could sit in a blind spot  and plink away with ML-16s into the same insignificant spot in the hull for ten or twenty minutes and the massive 2km plus long destroyer would suddenly just explode.

a.k.a. "the only way anyone ever beat Silent Threat

If this mission guide is to believed, at least one guy managed to do it in a bomber.


Is it possible to just make most "small arms" weapons do no damage to capital ships, possibly just destroyers, while keeping subsystems vulnerable.

I think you can do that by messing with armor.tbl in FSO.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 11:08:15 pm by Goober5000 »

 

Offline ShivanSpS

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Re: 20th Anniversary of Descent: FreeSpace
I don't know, I get what they were trying to do. It's not as though Freespace 1 had a neccesarily better system - you could sit in a blind spot  and plink away with ML-16s into the same insignificant spot in the hull for ten or twenty minutes and the massive 2km plus long destroyer would suddenly just explode.

a.k.a. "the only way anyone ever beat Silent Threat

If this mission guide is to believed, at least one guy managed to do it in a bomber.


Is it possible to just make most "small arms" weapons do no damage to capital ships, possibly just destroyers, while keeping subsystems vulnerable.

I think you can do that by messing with armor.tbl in FSO.

The hell? i did that mission a few of times before ST:R came out in a Ursa. And i remember that is also why i told you a few years back that i rather fly the last ST:R mission in a strong Ursa rather than in a weakling Zeus.

Correction here is a 11 years old vid of mine in a Valk in all its glorious 480p.


Not sure about the difficulty, but i never ever played in anything below medium.

The number of fighters the Hades has onboard is just ridiculus, its like the entire ship is just a big hangar except for the engine block and tower.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 11:58:03 am by ShivanSpS »

 

Offline NeonShivan

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Re: 20th Anniversary of Descent: FreeSpace

If this mission guide is to believed, at least one guy managed to do it in a bomber.


I remember doing it once in a bomber when I was younger, solely because I had nothing better to do with my life. Granted, of course, I believe I did it on a easier difficulty so I don't think that counts lol
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Offline Firesteel

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Re: 20th Anniversary of Descent: FreeSpace
I don't think I ever beat retail Silent Threat, though I only played it when I was a kid. I never could properly get into the safe spot, probably because I was hellbent on using a Zeus for whatever reason.

Another dumb story from that playthrough was deciding to use a loadout of only shield breakers on primaries then constantly running out of missiles because FS1 lock-on missiles couldn't reliably hit dragons in a dogfight.
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Offline ShivanSpS

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Re: 20th Anniversary of Descent: FreeSpace
I really dont remember to be THAT hard, as of every FS mission out there is very lineal and its just a matter to figure out the best way to do it.

Maybe i should try again. If i recorded the video as a fighter it means it was easier to do it as a fighter, thats for sure.

 

Offline Firesteel

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Re: 20th Anniversary of Descent: FreeSpace
I mean this was years ago and I was a kid who still wasn't particularly good at the game at that point. It was also pre-YT iirc and all I had was a text guide to it that wasn't as descriptive.

I should try retail Silent Threat again (partially for the video series) since it's been at least 10 years since I played it.
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Offline asyikarea51

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Re: 20th Anniversary of Descent: FreeSpace
I don't remember if the FS1+ST CD I've long lost was on its own, or if it was bundled with D3 or D2...

I guess the Descent: FreeSpace naming convinced me to buy it, since luck or fate got me into buying D2... if I saw the Conflict name I probably would have put that disc back on the shelf.

The last thing I remember of that era was doing... really nothing much in FRED1, trying to make Shivan stuff either allied in test missions or player-controllable only to be hammered with error messages so I gave up, wasn't aware of unpacker tools at the time to see the game data.

And only flying the Ursa in Good Luck. I think I hit the last mission in ST but my memory there is gone.
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