[General Battuta]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/30/AR2008043003415.html?nav=rss_print/asection

"I've seen a lot of grown men who didn't have the courage and weren't able to handle themselves under fire like she did," said Staff Sgt. Aaron Best of Canton, N.C., [a Humvee] gunner that day. "She never missed a beat."

I know we just had a thunderous debate involving women in the military, but I've got no hard feelings and I promise not to say a single argumentative word in this thread.

I did, however, think that the article was full of cool stuff. Particularly liked the part about how the female soldiers had been doing all the same things as the males and performing fine. I think it's a shame that Pfc. Brown was pulled from frontline combat -- she dragged wounded soldiers free of a burning Humvee, shielded them with her body while under mortar fire for over 15 minutes, and treated them. Heroic service, especially considering she was only 18 at the time.

I hope you guys think it's cool too! Hopefully there won't be any need to kick off another cantankerous shindig.

[jdjtcagle]

It still amazes me the bravery of some people

I have to say I look up to them, who knows if I would do the same... makes you think.

[Scuddie]

A female soldier earns a silver star for heroic service.

So?

[NGTM-1R]

This reminds me of an editorial in Proceedings after the death of the first female combat pilot in the USN. It was a noncombat loss, years back. The F-14 she was flying lost an engine on takeoff from a carrier, and there may have been issues with the catapult too; whatever the reason it didn't come off the deck in proper flight attitude so instead of flying it crashed. The RIO managed to eject safely, but she didn't make it out before it crashed into the water at 250 knots.

The Secretary of the Navy and various other important dignitaries attended the funeral. It was a great gesture towards the family, to be sure.

But it was wrong.

Yes, she was the first female pilot...but that's why it was wrong. She should have recieved no special treatment, she did not in life, she should not have in death. That would have been the thing that made sense; that would have been the thing that showed integration at work. Instead they took a step backward.

[Rian]

The article isn’t just about her achievement, though. She was removed from combat shortly afterward, for the sole reason that she’s a woman.

So no, it’s not just making a big “OMG a woman got a silver star” deal. It’s pointing out that this woman who has clearly proved herself is being told that she can’t serve in combat after all. That seems a little unfair, doesn’t it?

[achtung]

Modern feminism has backfired horribly.  It has promoted raising and sadly, in many cases, lowering the bar instead of working for real achievement.  Special treatment does no good for anyone, it just makes women look weaker.

Men and women ARE different in many ways, why can't people just accept that and stop worrying about it?  In the end, both sexes just about even out anyway.

[BlackDove]

Just a little joke.

Of course women are equal to men. Though in the end, that's not saying much.

At any rate, if she did the things described, she deserves that star. Anyone who does something like that deserves it.

[Mefustae]

Personally, I think it's kind of a shame that - as a society - we're to PC to take advantage of the differences between the sexes. Y'know, structure an armed forces playing to the strengths of those who fight. Namely, like in Heinlein's Starship Troopers where the men play trooper while the women play pilot. Men and women, while they should be treated equal, aren't equal in many respects. That's why we're different. IMO, forced equality is just as bad as discrimination.

I know we just had a thunderous debate involving women in the military, but I've got no hard feelings and I promise not to say a single argumentative word in this thread.

Who's 'we'?

[Kosh]

Personally, I think it's kind of a shame that - as a society - we're to PC to take advantage of the differences between the sexes. Y'know, structure an armed forces playing to the strengths of those who fight. Namely, like in Heinlein's Starship Troopers where the men play trooper while the women play pilot. Men and women, while they should be treated equal, aren't equal in many respects. That's why we're different. IMO, forced equality is just as bad as discrimination.

The Soviet Union in World War 2 had lots of excellent women snipers.

Here are two things we should ask ourselves about women in the army:

1.) Can they shoot reasonably well?
2.) Can they handle themselves under pressure?

If the answer is yes to both then send them right to the front lines.


Personally one thing I can't stand in a lot of the American girls my age is their "need" to act like pitiful, stupid bimbo's. I think the media has a lot to do with it, but either way I would never tolerate such weakness.

[Mefustae]

The Soviet Union in World War 2 had lots of excellent women snipers.

Very true. Even though we usually only hear about our old pal Vasily Zaytsev, it's oft-rumoured that the highest scoring sniper by far was a woman.

[Stormkeeper]

Well, I dunno bout any of you, but I wouldn't dare to stand and face down my mother when she's in full blown RAGE mode.


And Tanya was a woman. ^^

[DeepSpace9er]

And Tanya was a woman. ^^

SHAKE IT BABY!

[Dark RevenantX]

The greatest insult one can give a woman is telling her she's equal to a man.

Trust me, it's nothing to be proud about.

Edit: My depressed mood is from AP exams.

[Nuke]

Just a little joke.

Of course women are equal to men. Though in the end, that's not saying much.

At any rate, if she did the things described, she deserves that star. Anyone who does something like that deserves it.

i wouldn't trust a modern woman to even look at my kitchen! i can bake 20 kinds of pies, all of them brutal, and my meat loaf is to kill for, and i make the best ****ing ribeye in this town. most i seen a woman do in a kitchen is burn a box of frozen chicken nuggets. at least on the battlefield they would burn the enemy.

as for so called feminism, women have merely swapped the good traits of women for the bad traits in men. the result is a woman with more bad traits than she would otherwise have. they are no longer the equalizing force they once were. now you see men taking over their former roles. no wonder society is so god damn gender bent these days. i have no problem with equal rights, i just think that of people forgot what that means. women should have all the rights of men, that doesn't mean they should act like them.

[Kosh]

women should have all the rights of men, that doesn't mean they should act like them.

As I pointed out earlier, lots of young (basically my age) american women don't act like men, they act like air headed retards (or maybe that is the same as acting like men?). If I meet one who likes like she has an IQ above 60 then I would consider dating her, otherwise I wouldn't waste my time.

[General Battuta]

Modern feminism has backfired horribly.  It has promoted raising and sadly, in many cases, lowering the bar instead of working for real achievement.  Special treatment does no good for anyone, it just makes women look weaker.

Read the article -- the only special treatment she got was being pulled out of the combat zone! I don't think she, or her unit members, were too happy about that. She wasn't asking for special treatment, the Army forced it on her.