[Trivial Psychic]

Now that I've installed Knossos, I've been giving SA a run-through, and I'm on the ISF branch right now.  I'm up to mission 5 (I'd tell you the mission title but it doesn't say it because of the Red Alert), and I can't progress beyond it.

Spoiler:

I manage to scan all targets up to the time when I get the warning about Arjuna wing, by which point I've only got a Moloch and the Byrn corvettes left to scan.  I make a run back to the AWACS, get Arjuna in close and then engage and destroy them.  I get the warning about one trying to escape the jamming field but I get it before it does.  Then I go back and scan the remaining two ships.  On one attempt I finished the scans and got a message telling me to draw Arjuna into range of the AWACS, but I'd already destroyed them.  I withdrew to the AWACS anyway, but got no further directives so I jumped back to base, but got the "no authorization" debriefing and had to repeat.

More recently, I got to the same spot, but since I had already gotten within 1500m of the AWACS earlier in the mission I didn't get the same message.  After scanning all warships I decided to scan all cargo as well, then for the hell of it I scanned the remaining subsystems of the Ravana, but some of the fighters got close enough so I got unprotected.  I decided to have a little more fun, so I drew them outside the weapons range of the warships, then engaged and destroyed all the fighters that were chasing me, then doubled back and attacked the freighters, and even took out one of the Rakshassa cruisers.  I was moving in on another when I got within range of the Demon's flak and decided to call it quits and headed out of range before jumping.  The debriefing indicated that I'd failed to stop Arjuna from escaping the ESD field and can't proceed to the next mission.  I conclude that there is some form of sequencing error to be looked at.

Also, the proximity tracker seems to be not working properly.  It often tracks fighters that are 3k away, while ignoring ones that are much closer.

[Goober5000]

Hmm.  Looks like there are some holes in the sexp logic that need patching.

What version of FSO are you using?

[Trivial Psychic]

One of the recent Knightlies; I believe it was 2021-04-26.

[Goober5000]

It turns out that the detection sexps do not work correctly after the Mem Hardot leaves.  The mission assumes the player always jumps out at that point, so that was never tested.

The new version I just uploaded should fix this issue, but you still need to do all your scanning before you fight Arjuna.

[Trivial Psychic]

Well, I was able to pass the mission now, but things still aren't perfect.  I took out Arjuna when the got in close, though I still got the debriefing message indicating that I shouldn't let them get beyond the 3k range.  Anyway, after destroying Arjuna the Admiral told me to jump out and the AWACS jumped, but I decided to stick around.  I got a scan of the Byrn corvette but the fighters all converged on me and then the warships started shooting at me.  I led the fighters away from the warships, shot them all down, went after most of the freighters and took them down.  Then picked a careful course towards the Ravana (I hadn't scanned it yet) and set about taking out the turrets from close in until I could get the scans done.  That completed all of the objectives for me.  I was hoping to snipe out the turrets on the cruisers and take a couple of them out before jumping away, but I was taking too much damage when a nearby Lilith targetted me with its AAA turret so I decided to make a break for it and jump out once I was out of range.

Aside from the debriefing thing, I would suggest giving the player a bit more time to scan everything before things take a turn, then make sure that if the player managed to take out any of the fighter wings, more are launched to replace them.  I tried it over and over and never managed to scan EVERYTHING unless I did so AFTER the whole Arjuna situation, which I shouldn't be able to.

Regardless, thanks for looking into my initial problem and creating a resolution so quickly.

[Goober5000]

You were detected; that's why all the fighters converged on you.  The debriefing assumes that if you were detected after Arjuna appears, it is Arjuna itself that detects you.  In any case, you should have gotten a conversation when the detection occurred.

You really should jump out when the Admiral tells you to leave and the AWACS jumps.  The mission isn't designed for players to stick around.  You're not supposed to be able to scan everything, either - that's why you're supposed to prioritize the most important things.

[Trivial Psychic]

In that case, you should probably find a way to ensure a continuous stream of replacement Shivan fighters should the player decide to do as I did.  I'm the guy who likes to find any way to rack up the kills.  In the GTVA branch when you're flying the stealths against the Aracnas, instead of following the plan, I just sit outside weapons range and use my Prom cannons to take out each cruiser and weapons platform myself, then take out all of the turrets myself.  I like to take all of the kills for myself. 

[Goober5000]

This mission is recon, not dogfighting.  If you fire your weapons, you're instantly detected, period.  There should not be any situation where you end up destroying all of the fighters, unless you're using cheats to ~K all the scouts so you have an easier time.

Firing your weapons will normally cause the mission to fail, except if it happens after you are authorized to depart.  This could be a bug or it could be an anti-frustration feature.  Either way, it is not intended as a license for you to go off and start shooting things.  That breaks the designer-player agreement.

[Trivial Psychic]

I just finished the ISF version of Ikarwa Passes (or however its spelt), and had an odd moment when the ISF task force arrived.  Only the corvette was actually there.  The other 3 ships did show as having arrived, and I did see the jump vortices, but I never saw them and they didn't register in the mission.  When I looked into the event log, it seems that they arrived and departed immediately after.  I'm guessing that wasn't supposed to happen.  Before you ask, none of the ships involved were destroyed in the previous mission, and I let them depart before I ended the mission.

[Goober5000]

That's gotta be a bug.  It makes sense that it would happen on this version too, as I recently upgraded the shipsave mechanism.

Can you send me your checkpoints?  These would be in %APPDATA%\HardLightProductions\FreeSpaceOpen\scroll\data\scripts.

[Trivial Psychic]

Which file are you after?  One in specific, or all of them?

On another note, you may want to make some more anti-TrivialPsychic-kill-all changes to "Daddy Long-legs" to make sure no-one can destroy the Aracnas.  Here's my gameplay sequence:

Spoiler:

Load Sekhmet with Proms, one bank Trebs, 2x banks Helios
Step 1 - Order Alpha to destroy the corvette.
Step 2 - Disable Gas minder with 1x Helios
Step 3 - Disable Corvette with 2x Helios
Step 4 - Head to Rakshasa cruiser and disable with 1x Helios.  This will cause heavy damage to the freighter, but you have to get in real close before you launch
Step 5 - Destroy freighter with a quick barrage of Proms
Step 6 - Use 2x Trebs to take-out AAA stinger turret of Lilith
Step 7 - Use 2x Helios to disable Lilith
Step 8 - If Corvette is destroyed, destroy AAA stinger turret of Cain once it arrives
Step 9 - Call for rearm, and assign a wing to protect the support ship.
Step 10 - Try to keep as many surviving fighters around to protect you, and give them all orders to ignore the station
Step 11 - Disable Cain with 1x Helios.
Step 12 - Pull all fighters and the support ship out of flak range and weapons range of all other ships and destroy subsequent waves of fighters until they stop
Step 13 - Use repeated Trebs to snipe off defensive turrets of station and of any other capital ships.  DO NOT DESTROY ANY BFRed TURRETS!
Step 14 - Use repeated Helios and Treb attacks to bring station damage down to about 7%.
Step 15 - Use 2X Helios combined with Trebs and primaries to bring each BFRed turret down to 1% strength.
Step 16 - Destroy remaining capital ships.
Step 17 - Rearm and use 1X treb on 2 of the station's turrets, then close and destroy the station with a few salvos of twin Helios.
Step 18 - Either evade or destroy wing of Gorgons that will have been launched once two of the BFRed turrets are destroyed.

I made it as far as Step 15, but was planning on destroying the cap-ships after, and instead tried to snipe off all of the BFRed turrets first, but my escort jumped and with 25% hull strength I couldn't hold out against the Gorgons on my own and I got shot down before I could destroy the station.  In any case, a ship-guardian-theshold on the station is probably in order.

[TopAce]

Out of curiousity: Are you always specifically trying to break the missions or is it just Scroll that deserves this special treatment?

[Goober5000]

Which file are you after?  One in specific, or all of them?

All of them, so I don't have to ask again in case I need more than one.

In any case, a ship-guardian-theshold on the station is probably in order.

Good idea.

Out of curiousity: Are you always specifically trying to break the missions or is it just Scroll that deserves this special treatment?

[Trivial Psychic]

Out of curiousity: Are you always specifically trying to break the missions or is it just Scroll that deserves this special treatment?

If I see an opportunity to get more ship-kills, I take it.  If you search through HLP archives, you'll find I a thread where I showed off my kill of the Sathanas in "Their Finest Hour"... well, I MYSELF didn't get the kill, but I did manage to do it without cheats.  I created a poll to see if anyone had done it, then once the poll closed I posted my step-by-step process for repeating it.  Unfortunately, I think that AI changes since have made my method unworkable.  I tried it recently and couldn't get the bombers to stick around.

Another time I was playing Unification War, and there was a mission where you have to try and stop an enemy carrier and two corvettes (or heavy cruisers, I can't exactly remember but it was those super-Fenris designs).  The mission seems designed with the idea that you can only stop two of them, as once any two have been destroyed or disabled, the third will jump out shortly after.  However, there is a bit of a delay between these two events, and I found that if I inflict heavy engine damage to one of them, then disable the other two, I could quick dash over and disable the third ship before it could jump.  I know you aren't supposed to be able to do it, because the debriefing gave me props for disabling each ship, but also told me that the same ship escaped and that I couldn't have prevented it.

[Trivial Psychic]

Which file are you after?  One in specific, or all of them?

All of them, so I don't have to ask again in case I need more than one.

I rar-ed them into one file to make it easier to post.

[attachment deleted to save space]

[Goober5000]

Well, it looks as if the ship save logic at the end of Masks (s1_07) is broken.  I'll have to fix it.

[Goober5000]

A bit of a delay, but I uploaded a new version with the save logic fix as well as the ship-guardian-threshold on the installation.