[IPAndrews]

Can't you just get a few people together from the old team and polish it a bit?

No. Sorry.

[IPAndrews]

Interesting statement, given that SCP internal access != TBP internal access.

You are absolutely correct. This was SCP team members abusing their global administrator privileges to invade our supposedly private TBP forum.

[chief1983]

The mod is dead and it remains FINAL.

Then why are there new bug reports specific to TBP?  And if it's dead, why is there a problem with the SCP dropping support for it?  You may consider it 'dead', but as the SCP itself is an ever changing beast, upcoming changes to it are going to affect TBP, whether it's desired or not.  Most notably will be the move to the new FS2NetD, as I doubt the 3.6.9 compatible server will remain up just for TBP's sake (although at this point I think it would be great if it were, then we really wouldn't have to worry about supporting TBP in 3.6.10).  It sounds like you're not concerned with TBP's compatibility with future SCP releases, so why should we be?  Am I missing something?

[General Battuta]

Can't you just get a few people together from the old team and polish it a bit?

No. Sorry.

Okay. Can you turn it over to a new team?

[IPAndrews]

Then why are there new bug reports specific to TBP?

Because we have fans who develop missions and campaigns. Sometimes they report bugs with the game engine.

And if it's dead, why is there a problem with the SCP dropping support for it?

None. The SCP team can do as they please. We don't tell other teams what to do. One might expect some attempt at backward compatability such that the end user experience of TBP in 3.6.10 is comparable with 3.6.9 but that's all one can reasonably expect.

[General Battuta]

Isn't the problem with TBP assets? Models, in particular?

It sounds as if the final release was a bit premature and it just needs another coat of polish.

[Lucika]

Can't you just get a few people together from the old team and polish it a bit?

No. Sorry.

Okay. Can you turn it over to a new team?

I must admit that I know absolutely nothing about the case, I find it hard to imagine that the original team doesn't allow a creation of a patch (what they do, if I didn't misunderstood anything), why would they allow minor/major changes?

[IPAndrews]

Okay. Can you turn it over to a new team?

It's not in my place to give other people's work as a gift. This would be a great disrespect to the enormous team that put so much hard work into TBP, and their decision to end development of their game. On the other hand if you wish to start your own B5 total conversion for FS Open please, please go ahead. I'd love to see it  .

[chief1983]

Then why are there new bug reports specific to TBP?

Because we have fans who develop missions and campaigns. Sometimes they report bugs with the game engine.

So then, while the mod has officially lost the support of its creators, it continues to live on through its fans.  Its fans then, I would imagine, are more than welcome to modify, tweak, etc the mod to their hearts content.  If a new team decides to carry on the torch, they should feel free to, perhaps under a modified name (a la Desert Combat vs Desert Combat Extended for BF1942).  If anyone is interested I'm sure that shouldn't be a problem.

And if it's dead, why is there a problem with the SCP dropping support for it?

None. The SCP team can do as they please. We don't tell other teams what to do. One might expect some attempt at backward compatability such that the end user experience of TBP in 3.6.10 is comparable with 3.6.9 but that's all one can reasonably expect.

Then I find your "Open Warning" post a bit offensive, as you seem to be telling people what should already be common sense.  When a developer stops supporting a piece of software, it's a bit far fetched to expect the developers of software that product relies on to continue to worry about supporting it, don't you think?  You're basically warning people that if they stop working on their project, at some point down the line it might not work anymore and that the SCP team is somehow in the wrong when this happens.  Otherwise, it sounds more like you have a problem with _how_ this decision process was being handled, including the posting in TBP's internal forum (which I don't initially see a problem with a HLP admin doing), and the subsequent antics.  If that's so, I think your warning was still a bit misplaced.

Also, the SCP credo has always been 'retail compatibility first'.  There was, to my knowledge, no similar promise for mods.  I suppose it was always assumed that a mod could be patched to work properly with future versions.  This might be one of the first times where such a case has arisen.  I don't remember another one anyway.

[Goober5000]

None. The SCP team can do as they please. We don't tell other teams what to do. One might expect some attempt at backward compatability such that the end user experience of TBP in 3.6.10 is comparable with 3.6.9 but that's all one can reasonably expect.

Please cite examples of where the TBP experience in 3.6.10 differs from the TBP experience in 3.6.9.

[General Battuta]

None. The SCP team can do as they please. We don't tell other teams what to do. One might expect some attempt at backward compatability such that the end user experience of TBP in 3.6.10 is comparable with 3.6.9 but that's all one can reasonably expect.

Please cite examples of where the TBP experience in 3.6.10 differs from the TBP experience in 3.6.9.

I am curious as well.

Okay. Can you turn it over to a new team?

It's not in my place to give other people's work as a gift. This would be a great disrespect to the enormous team that put so much hard work into TBP, and their decision to end development of their game. On the other hand if you wish to start your own B5 total conversion for FS Open please, please go ahead. I'd love to see it  .

So would you object if someone made a patch for the game?

[Wanderer]

Isn't the problem with TBP assets? Models, in particular?

It sounds as if the final release was a bit premature and it just needs another coat of polish.

We can start with short list of issues...

Code: [Select]

n x null MOI
god.pof has completely borked lod0
VE dread crashes any debug build that dares to try to load it
Drakh mothership uses the 'detail0' model (the main lod0 model) as one of its turret base submodels
...

[Shade]

You are absolutely correct. This was SCP team members abusing their global administrator privileges to invade our supposedly private TBP forum.

There's that plural again. "SCP team members". Since you're so adamant that a large part of the SCP team has invaded your private forum, would you please care to explain who besides Goober even has the ability without being on the TBP team in the first place? That is, of course, assuming that TBP members are allowed to post in the TBP forum without it being an invasion. You seem to be getting a bit fuzzy on the subject.

And frankly I wouldn't even consider an admin posting on a project internal to be an invasion, especially when they do it because they want to discuss something relating to that project in private.

[Edit] Not to mention that if you didn't want the discussion in TBP internal, you could have moved it to the SCP forum instead. Or asked someone else to do so if you've given up your TBP moderator privileges. Hell, that could still be done - I'm sure there are a lot of people curious to see what exactly happened who would be very happy if that was done.

[Flipside]

So would you object if someone made a patch for the game?

I take it, from his comment, that yes, he would object, which seems to me to be far more of an insult to the work other people put in than a compliment to it, since without work, TBP will not simply lose support, it will become unsupportable.

I hope I'm wrong, but that's how his comment reads to me, that it would be other people touching his teams work.

[Polpolion]

All I saw in this thread is Skullar saying how awesome TPB is and how they're way better than every other project that isn't released. Can anyone explain this thread to me?

[tomcat]

Just let the TBP die.. Please..
I spent too many years ... too many hours... I am too old for this crap..
Models were lost... When Ian said is done... the is done.. meaning no will, no resource, all our planes where shattered million times...

Guys is easy... if you find a new issue (this is the professional name) for something that is related to TBP... just ignore it... There is no one left to try to fix the TBP.. so is DEAD

[General Battuta]

Just let the TBP die.. Please..
I spent too many years ... too many hours... I am too old for this crap..
Models were lost... When Ian said is done... the is done.. meaning no will, no resource, all our planes where shattered million times...

Guys is easy... if you find a new issue (this is the professional name) for something that is related to TBP... just ignore it... There is no one left to try to fix the TBP.. so is DEAD

You don't have to do it, but would you object to a fanmade patch?

[Flipside]

Thing is, it doesn't need to be, that's what is so frustrating.

Let's wait until we hear back from IPAndrews as to his opinion on a fan-created patch for it. Hopefully I'm wrong and he doesn't mind the idea of such a thing, then that is probably the best way to go, it means the fans get a more stable version of the game, and he can still consider the version the team created as final, as the patch would be unofficial from the point of view of the TBP team.

I'd still very much like to see TBP as an active part of this community, it was the backbone of the SCP for quite some time because it was usually the first point of contact for new members, it'd be a pity to see that fall by the wayside, particuarly when so much time and effort has been spent getting it this far.

There is no one left to try to fix the TBP.. so is DEAD

The thing is, there ARE people willing to try and fix it, but they are unwilling to even try without some kind of acknowledgment from the team that this is ok.

[Angelus]

Just let the TBP die.. Please..

Yeah, good idea!
Remove it from the Moddb, remove all DL links, shut down the TBP MP server and so on.

Guys is easy... if you find a new issue (this is the professional name) for something that is related to TBP... just ignore it...

Eh? You're kidding?

There is no one left to try to fix the TBP.. so is DEAD

There are a few guys, who volunteered to FIX some ERRORS.
Let them do it, will ya?

I mean, you might think, FIXING some bugs/ errors IS a big waste of time.
BUT it's their time.

EDIT: I can't see a problem with a unofficial patch, but i think Flipside is right, let's see what IPAndrews think about that.

[Mongoose]

Just let the TBP die.. Please..
I spent too many years ... too many hours... I am too old for this crap..
Models were lost... When Ian said is done... the is done.. meaning no will, no resource, all our planes where shattered million times...

Guys is easy... if you find a new issue (this is the professional name) for something that is related to TBP... just ignore it... There is no one left to try to fix the TBP.. so is DEAD

This is one of the most self-contradictory sentiments I've come across in a long while.  If you guys really did spend so much blood, sweat, and tears working on this project, wouldn't you want to have people keep playing it far into the future, so as to have all of said work pay off?  There's a whole group of people who's apparently willing to sit down and iron out the bugs that exist in your "final" release.  (And really, that's such an ironic term, since I'm sure that just about anyone in IT would tell you that no release is ever truly final so long as there's room for improvement.)  These people are willing to take the necessary steps to ensure that the public can continue enjoying your work far into the future.  So why does this issue even exist in the first place?

(Note that I have no affiliation with the SCP and have never even played TBP, so I can only go off of what has been publicly discussed.)