Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => The Classics => Topic started by: karajorma on July 15, 2004, 03:24:57 pm
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Am I right to be VERY scared by this news? I've heard some very bad reviews for Battlecruiser Millenium (I have heard from a couple of people who like it though)
http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005485
Can this guy really do better than the awesome work our boys have managed to do to update freespace using the source code (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,23953.0.html)
I mean. Look at this. I don't see any indications that he could beat it.
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/fs2pics/ezeingame01.jpg)
EDIT : Keep it civil BTW guys. It's only a matter of time before he gets pointed in this direction.
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@&*(^$@#&*^&*())(&@#$*()@#^$)*(@&#^)(*%&(@&%)(@#%)@#^%)*(@&#$@#&()*%^)#*(%^)*(@ & aI@U&%*()@#&%() on the back of a #$()&*!?!?
Translation:
What just happened?
I don't believe it...
No, can't be, please tell me it's not tru!?!?
*passes out*
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Run a ****ing mile.
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:wtf: :wtf:
Keep that bad man away from my baby.
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I wasn't particularly impressed with anything I saw from the various space combat games he's built. I don't condem the man for trying but I haven't been impressed and it would take alot for me to be impressed with a FreeSpace 3. Especially if he goes that "jack of all trades" sorts of crazyness.
A true FreeSpace 3 would have top notch graphics, solid gameplay drawing on the originals and adding new features, strengthened physics (in a gameplay sort of way, not necessarily to bring full newtonian physics), and much improved AI. You need a full team, a proper development cycle and lots of polish. I haven't yet seen that.
But hey, they can clone sheep....maybe a good FS3 could come of it....who's to say.
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BTW He's already talking to Interplay.
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I'm not for it, unless he makes freespace 2, freeware :D
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****.
I don't think this is right, true fs3 would require a large scale commercial production. The SCP is the closest thing we should ever have to a non-software house fs3. :(
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How about this for Civil, Derick Smart is 'the wrong hands' for the freespace licence. It is the very definition of the worst possible outcome. It can only end in tears.
Does this mean that Interplay are shopping around the licence?
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I am so smart! I am so smart!
S-M-R-T...I mean S-M-A-R-T.
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Meh, it's either that or NEVER know what happened to Bosch and Co. I want some damned closure and not a big gaping cliffhanger.
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The Freespace gang isn't big enough to scare me
I feel like doing some scaring.... ;)
Seriously though, I'd like to see him beat what the SCP is becoming, maybe we should point that forum in the direction of HLP?
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He did some good games, like BCMG and UC, although not enjoyable to everybody...
No one ever saw a game he made that wasn't a jake of all trades, so it might be either pretty good, or terrible... and I doubt he would be making FS3 any time soon, seeing that he has got 2!! games that are still in development... and he asked what if, so I don't see much concerns here... unless he buys the rights.
The thing I think we should be most scared of is the story... how is anyone going to capture that feeling about the first time you see the Lucifer ingame? Or the first seconds of Into the Lion's Den?
Yeah, you have a reason to be afraid of...
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Damn it.
If he makes it, we'll never get the story out of Volition. Instead, we'll probably get some butchered up load of contradictory BS as a storyline.
Blah.
My precioussssssss....nooooo!!
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if he ****s up freespace, i will kill him.
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Point him to here and make him see all the hard work the SCP people have put into FS2, before considering making FS3 and putting it all to waste.
Otherwise I'd have to say no, mostly due to paranoa and the fact that I don't like trusting total strangers.
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Seems like interplay is selling stuff to a lot of people, so they can rape and ruin it.
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Originally posted by Nuke
if he ****s up freespace, i will kill him.
Just do what I do to Jurassic Park III.
"Pretend" it's not Canon... Rethinking this, it may be VERY interesting to see the type of engine he uses, hell if it's good we may start a Freespace 2 mod for Freespace 3 :D
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Well, we don't know what he would do with it yet. I'm more concerned that he would put 3 years of hard work by Modders in this forum 'out the window' so that he can write it. That would annoy me, because it would be the game that was written 'by gamers for gamers' giving it's own gamers the one-fingered salute :(
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If he does that we're just gonna have to invade his board and make his life a living hell with hate mail, email bombs, computer hacks, deleting his personal files from the government systems and kill him at the end...
In any case, we should register there and show off loads of SCP stuff to him. Maybe he'll even hire the SCP staff :p lol
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Posted a little comment myself. Let's hope he reads it.
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[IMG]http://www.mr-johnson.com/images/games/derek_smart.gif[/IMG] + [IMG]http://www.wapers.com/games/hitman/hitman1.jpg[/IMG] = [IMG]http://www.bsnb.com/images/thumbs-up.jpg[/IMG]
EDIT: disabled IMG tags due to hotlinking prompting for password // G5K
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:blah: hell no!
but think it if he comes here we can make him as our *cough slave cough) think about it he has licence and he is our cough slave cough :D
I think i'am little sick cos of cough's
highlight message
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For me, It works like this: If its good, great news! we'll be able to expand even more on the Freespace universe. If its bad, Then **** it, its not real, wasnt made, never happened, blah blah blah, I cant hear you. Basically Jd's idea.
I've played some of Smarts games, like BM gold, and I liked it for the most part, so maybe he can pull it off. As long as he doesnt do the one thing that really puts me off about his games: Make it so freaking complicated that after the first month or so I completely give up on understanding (and playing) it.
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I don't think the kind of games he's made in the past are at all close to the feel of Freespace. If he's going to continue developing Freespace with his "style" then I'm pretty sure it won't be worthy of calling Freespace 3.
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Rictor, please refrain from doing that, no matter how tempted you get. I think this is kind of a paradox, we've been waiting for this moment for years, almost abandoning all hope and now we are all worried about what might become of it.
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Do what?
*strokes Dragunov*
I am the angel of death, the time of reckoning is at hand.
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I may have the whole HLP turned against me as the effect of this post, but I feel I should write it down: I think we should not be afraid unless we actually get it and it is definitely worse than FSO.
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Heh, I've been looking forward to Mindgames or Machina Terra more than FS3 to be honest,
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Could it be that this was not a possible options? :p
Give him a chance to speak, he'll be here shortly...
You forget that freespace is not that popular, so it's more that likely he's a fan, like us :)
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This will be more akin to Fallout:Tactics, than Freeespace 3, in essense, he'll take the universe and make his own kind of game out of it, where we've on the GTVA Something, wandering the galaxy.
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Originally posted by jdjtcagle
Could it be that this was not a possible options? :p
Give him a chance to speak, he'll be here shortly...
You forget that freespace is not that popular, so it's more that likely he's a fan, like us :)
Isn't it popular? I thought it was only relatively unpopular in the middle Europe(or only in Hungary. :nervous: )
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lol, look at all the members on right now, this has sturred some thing up! :D
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Its not that I think he can't make a decent game. Well, I do sort of thing that also, but its not that. Its just that, if it ain't Volition, it ain't Freespace.
He could maybe make a good game fro the license, but it wouldn't be Freespace. Doesn't matter if its Derek Smart of John Carmack or anyone, it just wouldn't be the game we all know and love.
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Originally posted by TopAce
Isn't it popular? I thought it was only relatively unpopular in the middle Europe(or only in Hungary. :nervous: )
NO!!!... It's not popular at ALL!!!!
One other kid knows of Freespace other than me <-- in my school and that's it . FYI, I'm in America, but lets stay on subject :)
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Originally posted by Derek Smart
If I wanted to make a Freespace 3 title, I don't think me checking in with a group of fans going in a different direction is in the best interests of my end goal. I mean, think about it. They're making something from someone else's code base. They have their own plans, ideas, goals and whatnot - none of which will ever reach the critical mass that would warrant a full retail effort. Ever.
I have absolutely NO intentions of using ANY of the Freespace2 source code because its legacy and its just going to be trouble from the word go. My plan - if I get it - is to start from scratch with a clean slate and only the Freespace mythos, backstory and assets (e.g. the ship types, names, dimensions etc) as a starting point.
Bloody hell.
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methinks some of you guys are focusing a wee bit too much on "OMFG its not [V] WHY OH WHY!" instead of how the game'll turn out...
Also, you guys do realize this all hinges on whether he gets the liscence or not, right?
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i guess it's show time...*cough*
[satan] The end of the world is nigh with the coming of Freespace 3 i shall take over the world...Your base belongs to me....[/satan]
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Well, remember, he's a 'cut throat, no holds barred, no mercy' business man, he's trying to make this community sound like a half-confused muddle for his own gain.
After his comments on Adrenaline, I wouldn't touch his game with someone elses bargepole.
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Originally posted by Rictor
Bloody hell.
*Cough* Kazan *Cough*
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Jetmech: He said "I have recieved the license..."
But I agree...
I think your right, but he does sound confused/ignorant about what we are asking....
He SHOULD be asking here, for are answers
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>.< NOooooOOOOoooOoooOooooOOOOooOO!!!!!!!!!
i wont buy it unless it has damn good reviews and a large portion of the community approves!!!!!!!!
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Goddammit...
Has anyone talked with someone from Interplay about getting the rights? Keep in mind that with the rights we could sell Freespace merchandise...maybe not the SCP EXEs, but the mediaVPs and mods, things that would have a very wide interest group.
And with Ferrium, it's entirely conceivable that we could release a full Freespace 3.
Or we could see if Volition would like to make another FS game.
I'm sorry if I'm being closed-minded, but I just dislike the idea of someone completely outside the community making a FS3, especially with paragraphs like this:
Most of the work would be in the graphics engine, campaign backstory (I have the perfect person in mind for that!!), campaign scripting. The biggest job would be having to re-create all the Freespace ship assets from scratch and bring them up to par with the likes of modern day ship designs.
And don't worry about the graphics engine guys, the Freespace world is nowhere near as large as mine, so eyecandy (the Freespace legacy) would be my #2 priority. Besides, when you see my new graphics engine in action, faith will be most certainly be restored in this area.
Clearly this guy has never heard of the SCP. I haven't heard of him, either...and I very vaguely remember hearing something or seeing something about Battlecruiser Millenium, but don't remember being interested at all.
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Originally posted by jdjtcagle
Jetmech: He said "I have recieved the license..."
But I agree...
Actually, he says hes still trying to get it
"Topic: Freepace License. What if...
....Derek Smart, yeah, that would be me, got the license from my friends at Interplay (a publisher I had very good experiences with); would you buy Freespace 3 if I made it?"
"If I get the Freespace license to make Freespace 3..."
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I never played any of his games, so honestly, I have no idea of what could happen. I think that Volition will be the first to make a grab for the liscence, though, if Interplay ever put it up for sale - they even said as much - so it's more or less a moot point anyway.
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It's not a question of Volition or not as it is of "Does Derek have the skills to reproduce the qualities of the Freespace games?" If the atmosphere, gameplay and other aspects of the series are not retained, it'll feel more like a Freespace TC in a totally different game.
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Basically, Derek Smart for those who don't know is the biggest ego known to man, somehow compressed into one mans head. He's a complete asshole when it comes to criticism of other peoples work but can't accept the NUMEROUS flaws in all of his releases, believing himself to be the victim of critics who want to see him fail.
Twat completely and utterly.
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Well, he's saying that he may want to refer to us for information on the Freespace universe, which is fine. I just get irritated at comments that make it sound like our efforts mean nothing :(
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It does indeed look like Interplay is selling-off its IPs at bargain basement prices, so...anyone have a rich uncle who always forgets your name but feels guilty for neglecting you all those years? Might come in usefull right about now.
edit: Damnit, if Volition wasn't stuck with TH "Britney's Dance Studio" Q, this could a lot more interesting.
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wish i did...
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Jetmech:
Thanks for clearing that up... ;)
Anyway I posted
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Has anyone actually talked with Interplay aout the rights?
I'd certainly contribute $ to a community pool if it meant receiving the FS rights.
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I just get irritated at comments that make it sound like our efforts mean nothing :(
Yeah, I've noticed his lack of tact...
Here's a quote on some ideas on gameplay he has:
And if you guys think I'm thinking some pantsy ass console shooter, think again. I'm thinking build an ENTIRE ship in 3D from the inside and out. Then merge it all with a great action focused (with mouse flight controls!!!) campaign that would be true to the franchise. Maybe a few planetary missions (well, I have the tech, why the hell not?) missions to move the campaign story along.
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I say it's going to be another one of his overambitous titles full of bugs that never actually gets finished.
Couldn't someone E-mail someone at [V] or something?
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HA! He needs missions to move the campaign along. :ha:
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Oh...****.. I think we should inform Mr. Smart we would not touch it with a 10 foot clown pole.
I've seen enough of how poor is attitude is towards customer support. Even if i had faith in his ability to make an accessible, fun game, that would put me off.
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01010, you're Utnayan, aren't you?...good man.
I also love he keeps talking about how "he" will make the game, about how "he" won't screw it up and how "he" does this and that. Yeah, those programmers, artists and designers, who work their asses off, they're just a periphery, right?.
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we need to forget this ever happened...
Forget...forget...forget
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Very true, very very true! Rictor
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Originally posted by Rictor
01010, you're Utnayan, aren't you?...good man.
I also love he keeps talking about how "he" will make the game, about how "he" won't screw it up and how "he" does this and that. Yeah, those programmers, artists and designers, who work their asses off, they're just a periphery, right?.
Utnayan? If that's someone on a forum somewhere criticising Mr Smart then it just shows you how many people think the same way as me. He's all ego and very little show, if he can do it then all respect will be given but he has a lot to prove.
The guy reminds me of Kazan, except I think Kazan would have a good chance of pulling something like this off.
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Originally posted by 01010
Utnayan?
Someone who just registered over at Adrenaline Vault to slam Derek Smart.
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My thoughts on this can be summed to these following words:
"Would you rather see this legacy license fall into the wrong hands?"
What an arrogant :mad:
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Originally posted by karajorma
Someone who just registered over at Adrenaline Vault to slam Derek Smart.
Ha ha, no that's not me, I won't go out of my way to do that, however I wouldn't be suprised if Derek were to end up posting on this forum, in which case I will give him my candid opinion.
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Well, as I said on Adrenaline, if he buys the rights, we can;t really do a single thing about it, and shouting at him, whilst fun, certainly won't bring him here asking questions.
Let your wallets, and the SCP do the talking ;)
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I still think someone should get onto [V] about this, surely they'd express an interest?
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Originally posted by 01010
Ha ha, no that's not me, I won't go out of my way to do that, however I wouldn't be suprised if Derek were to end up posting on this forum, in which case I will give him my candid opinion.
Looked at the "Who's Online" or "Newest Member" thing recently? :p
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Ha ha. Why am I not suprised?
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The ego has landed?
:nervous:
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How about we just ignore it and stick with the SCP. We're a "Volition-made fs2" fan base, not a "David Smart-made fs2" fan base.
If he does a good job, fine we'll start modding and listing it on the site. Until that time, we all kick ourselves up the arse and start producing good mods, and good modifications to the game engine.
End of matter. Unless he comes here, then we lay it out in a clear and civil manner we think he's not good enough for our beloved fs.
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Dun dun dun.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
The ego has landed?
:nervous:
I think things may be interesting tonight on HLP.
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Uh ohhhh
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Personally he should get a chance. As long as he doesn't ignore the gamers of Freespace. it would be the key to a successfull game. It's not like he has to take orders from us, just listen.
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You're right Tiara, but, it's Derek Smart.
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Originally posted by 01010
I think things may be interesting tonight on HLP.
Yeah...... I think we may see something which dwarfs the usual religion / war threads.
Still, must keep an open mind.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Yeah...... I think we may see something which dwarfs the usual religion / war threads.
Still, must keep an open mind.
I guess anything is better than nothing.
We'll see though.
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I am still saying let's wait until we get something in our hands.
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Uh oh...here comes that mouse control thing again. FreeLancer tried it....it's been done, Joysticks are cheap, lets go that way again please and keep mouse for those who like it.
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There's not like we can do much, so if he gets the rights, at least I hope he does a decent job. I think HLP is crucial in this affair, because there's no one, save for the original devs, who knows/cares about Freespace more than the people here.
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BY DEREK
If I wanted to make a Freespace 3 title, I don't think me checking in with a group of fans going in a different direction is in the best interests of my end goal.
*sigh*
My reply on that from the AV forum;
Ok, you just seriously and probably irreprehensibly damaged your status amongst the Freespace fans. [Troubled]
A game is not there for YOUR goals only you know. I have faith that if you only listen to the fans that the game will turn out pretty damned good. Just don't outright ignore them. it's not like they order you around. Or even can for that matter...
Again; the gamer's input is a key ingredient to a successfull game. [Smile]
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Well I sent an E-Mail to the guy using the dev@3000ad E-Mail.
Mainly discussing how there's people here with some professional gaming development experience, etc.
So hopefully I'll get a reply and hopefully it'll be a good one ;)
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I didn't realise how much I still liked FS2 until this thread.
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Originally posted by Rictor
There's not like we can do much, so if he gets the rights, at least I hope he does a decent job. I think HLP is crucial in this affair, because there's no one, save for the original devs, who knows/cares about Freespace more than the people here.
Derek's Staff? :thepimp:
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Uhhh... who is XePeR?
Do we know him?
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First Post
Gents, some of the posts in this thread, are EXACTLY the reason why game developers AND publishers hardly pay attention to a game's fanbase.
So, go ahead, insult me all you want. Fat lot of good THAT is going to do. If anything, your posts will serve as indication to the industry in general, that well, those of you who want to turn this into a pissing content, are NOT worthy of anything tangible with regards to this franchise or anything associated with it. Look, they're not giving out library cards for bad behavior. So, if you can't behave at home, at the VERY least, have some self respect and behave yourself when in the company of others who are deserving of respect.
Now we're got that out of the way, lets see....
I'm not here to win any hearts, blow any minds, organize cookouts, take long walks in the park or pass around the walm milk. All I want to say it if anyone has played ANY of my games, not to mention the recently released Universal Combat, it should be clearly apparent that you're not dealing with some fly-by-night developer of a mod crew thats going to disappear overnight.
My games have been around for almost fifteen years, believe it or not and I have so far released five games - all of which made money - and I have an install base that clearly eclipses you lot. By a galaxy wide margin. My game - believe it or not - was one of those that made money for Interplay. They didn't lose money on it, not matter how much or how little it made. I got paid. They got their money's worth and I join the ranks for those who are saddened by their demise as I had some really good friends there.
So, lets cut the crap and get real here. Now. Would you rather NOT see another Freespace title in the retail channel, with high calibre values and from a team with a HISTORY and EXPERIENCE in making SPACE games? Or would you rather see it go to some larger company who is going to turn it into some unrecognizeable crap so they can leech off the Freespace name?
I'm ACTIVELY trying to get the license and given that I had a really good relationship with Inteplay (they published my second game), it will all boil down to money and whether or not Interplay is willing to let it go.
If I get it, I'm going to develop this game. NO amount of crying, magic, spellcasting, running outside naked and yelling or coming to my house with +2 Armor of God and +6 whupass, is going to change that. So, the ones making these crazy posts (the attention must be nice - try dating) might as well go to sleep tonight knowing that as tenacious as my reputation is, if there is ANY chance of obtaining this license, I'm going to get it.
YOU insulting lot have VERY few choices and options. You are either going to be a part of the end result or you remain a part of the problem that will let this legacy and much regarded franchise die with Freespace2. Think about this. It makes NO difference to me. I CONSISTENTLY develop, publish and sell games. So, its not like I don't have a project (considering that I have no less than THREE in development right this minute) to fund and develop. I do this out of love for the Freespace franchise and out of respect for what I - as a gamer and a space sim developer - deem to be a legacy and one of the greatest space sims ever developed.
That is all. As you were.
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Originally posted by Rictor
There's not like we can do much, so if he gets the rights, at least I hope he does a decent job. I think HLP is crucial in this affair, because there's no one, save for the original devs, who knows/cares about Freespace more than the people here.
No-one who has put more effort in keeping the franchise alive, either.
To be fair, I did post on the Adreneline Vault forum asking him to look at this thread, so you can blame me if **** happens :)
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Damn this threads moving fast.
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I personally think any company that would pick up the Freespace license would want to make a decent game of it, as it's a fairly niche genre now.
Also please don't EMPHASISE words like that, it's pretty patronising.
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DSmart [3000AD]: Ok, don't judge a COMMUNITY on the words of a some members...
Argue to learn, not to win
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Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
*Long winded post*
So you're listening to all the little whiners and people insulting you, but ignoring the ones actually saying something? You're not living up to your name.
And are you saying that you deserve our respect?
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What I'm interested in is that has he really gotten the rights to Freespace from Interplay? I can't believe that even IPLY would be as stupid as to do that.
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I think he fails to realise we're the only people who'd actually buy the thing.
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@Derek
Uh-huh. Not all the posts in this thread have been flaming and I'd like you not to bunch all of us together. I think it'd be better for you if you answered relevant questions and doubts and do it tactfully.
Despite all your whining and *****ing about how voracious fans are, you're quite hostile and *****y yourself (Y'know, all those prods at geekiness, lack of dating, whatever).
Advice: Drop the ego.
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It's not so much the writing of Freespace 3 that concerns me, it's the attitude that we are a bunch of amatuers who haven't a clue what we are taking on with the SCP, and that our opinions which we've had 5 years to debate and hone, are of only minor worth :(
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Originally posted by 01010
Damn this threads moving fast.
51 users online and no one is posting in any other thread. What do you expect? :)
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[q]So, lets cut the crap and get real here. Now. Would you rather NOT see another Freespace title in the retail channel, with high calibre values and from a team with a HISTORY and EXPERIENCE in making SPACE games? Or would you rather see it go to some larger company who is going to turn it into some unrecognizeable crap so they can leech off the Freespace name?[/q]
Tbh, i'd rather we never saw another fs release. So the n00bs scream for fs3, but I don't. We had our fun with the commercial aspect and now it's fallen to a loyal fanbase to keep the plot going and developing.
Your kind of release would take the plot and feel of freespace in a direction no one who wrote the original plot probably intended. In essense, it wouldn't be freespace anymore.
Oh and the agressiveness in your post? No wonder so many folk reacted the way they did around here to the news. Please keep it calm, this is how silly flames begin.
I'm off to work on my campaign.
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Originally posted by Kamikaze
[B
Advice: Drop the ego. [/B]
****ing spot on.
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If anything ever screamed 'interview'.......
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Your games may have made money, but the community(=fans) is not interested in how much money you made with it. We want to see a high quality game that is a decent sequel to its predecessor.
Money and quality sometimes is inverse ration to each other. Take FreeSpace_Open as an example and you will see what some enthusiastic people are able to do FOR FREE.
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Listen Smart, I (we) ask of you what I would ask of any game developer, good or bad, proven or unproven, big or small.
If you get the licesne, don't **** it up. Its a pretty safe assumption that no one wants to see Freespace go down the ****ter, so just make a good game, alright?
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Originally posted by karajorma
51 users online and no one is posting in any other thread. What do you expect? :)
I actually made a post wondering whether Mr Smart would post in this thread or make his own, but by the time I posted it he'd posted his. :)
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Wheee, I can spam and no-one will notice!
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Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
First Post
Gents, some of the posts in this thread, are EXACTLY the reason why game developers AND publishers hardly pay attention to a game's fanbase.
No, it's your rep that caused it my friend. Sorry to say this but your games haven't been the greatest.
And i'm even willing to give it a chance. but if you alienate all the FS fans your game is once again doomed to die a horrible death.
So, go ahead, insult me all you want. Fat lot of good THAT is going to do. If anything, your posts will serve as indication to the industry in general, that well, those of you who want to turn this into a pissing content, are NOT worthy of anything tangible with regards to this franchise or anything associated with it. Look, they're not giving out library cards for bad behavior. So, if you can't behave at home, at the VERY least, have some self respect and behave yourself when in the company of others who are deserving of respect.
Seriously, you haven't even showed ONE SINGLE good idea about this game and haven't given us the chance to say A DAMNED thing and you are already stating your conclusions.
Now we're got that out of the way, lets see....
I'm not here to win any hearts, blow any minds, organize cookouts, take long walks in the park or pass around the walm milk. All I want to say it if anyone has played ANY of my games, not to mention the recently released Universal Combat, it should be clearly apparent that you're not dealing with some fly-by-night developer of a mod crew thats going to disappear overnight.
I've played your games and they were mediocre at best. Sorry. And your new game looks like crap. Sorry again, but it's true.
obviously you haven't been paying attention TO WHAT THE GAMER WANTS.
it's a simple concept. you don't get it? then your doomed to your mediocre deveopping forever.
My games have been around for almost fifteen years, believe it or not and I have so far released five games - all of which made money - and I have an install base that clearly eclipses you lot. By a galaxy wide margin. My game - believe it or not - was one of those that made money for Interplay. They didn't lose money on it, not matter how much or how little it made. I got paid. They got their money's worth and I join the ranks for those who are saddened by their demise as I had some really good friends there.
ROFL! The arrogance. 'clearly eclipses you lot'. Do you even know me? Jezus ****ing christ sitting with a stick up his ass.
So, lets cut the crap and get real here. Now. Would you rather NOT see another Freespace title in the retail channel, with high calibre values and from a team with a HISTORY and EXPERIENCE in making SPACE games? Or would you rather see it go to some larger company who is going to turn it into some unrecognizeable crap so they can leech off the Freespace name?
i'd rather NOT see an FS3 game then a CRAP ASS FS3. take a hint, gamers know what they want AND THEY'RE THE ONES BUYING!
I'm ACTIVELY trying to get the license and given that I had a really good relationship with Inteplay (they published my second game), it will all boil down to money and whether or not Interplay is willing to let it go.
Got a good relationship with them? Well, it just went under. just goes to show doesn't it :doubt:
If I get it, I'm going to develop this game. NO amount of crying, magic, spellcasting, running outside naked and yelling or coming to my house with +2 Armor of God and +6 whupass, is going to change that. So, the ones making these crazy posts (the attention must be nice - try dating) might as well go to sleep tonight knowing that as tenacious as my reputation is, if there is ANY chance of obtaining this license, I'm going to get it.
out of spite, eh? i forsee yet another one of your games just as mediocre as the rest. A shame to the great FS series.
YOU insulting lot have VERY few choices and options. You are either going to be a part of the end result or you remain a part of the problem that will let this legacy and much regarded franchise die with Freespace2. Think about this. It makes NO difference to me. I CONSISTENTLY develop, publish and sell games. So, its not like I don't have a project (considering that I have no less than THREE in development right this minute) to fund and develop. I do this out of love for the Freespace franchise and out of respect for what I - as a gamer and a space sim developer - deem to be a legacy and one of the greatest space sims ever developed.
'You insulting lot'? you're the one insulting the FS series.
[size=999]A series made by gamer, for gamers.[/size]
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Ok, now lets give him a chance to reply, now...
No more flaming, this is big
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You forget a tag in there somwhere Tiara.
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Feexed :D
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Alright ladies give the man enough rope, and you don't have to commit murder... (so try not to axe him already T ;) )
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Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
First Post
Gents, some of the posts in this thread, are EXACTLY the reason why game developers AND publishers hardly pay attention to a game's fanbase.
So, go ahead, insult me all you want. Fat lot of good THAT is going to do. If anything, your posts will serve as indication to the industry in general, that well, those of you who want to turn this into a pissing content, are NOT worthy of anything tangible with regards to this franchise or anything associated with it. Look, they're not giving out library cards for bad behavior. So, if you can't behave at home, at the VERY least, have some self respect and behave yourself when in the company of others who are deserving of respect.
Now we're got that out of the way, lets see....
I'm not here to win any hearts, blow any minds, organize cookouts, take long walks in the park or pass around the walm milk. All I want to say it if anyone has played ANY of my games, not to mention the recently released Universal Combat, it should be clearly apparent that you're not dealing with some fly-by-night developer of a mod crew thats going to disappear overnight.
My games have been around for almost fifteen years, believe it or not and I have so far released five games - all of which made money - and I have an install base that clearly eclipses you lot. By a galaxy wide margin. My game - believe it or not - was one of those that made money for Interplay. They didn't lose money on it, not matter how much or how little it made. I got paid. They got their money's worth and I join the ranks for those who are saddened by their demise as I had some really good friends there.
So, lets cut the crap and get real here. Now. Would you rather NOT see another Freespace title in the retail channel, with high calibre values and from a team with a HISTORY and EXPERIENCE in making SPACE games? Or would you rather see it go to some larger company who is going to turn it into some unrecognizeable crap so they can leech off the Freespace name?
I'm ACTIVELY trying to get the license and given that I had a really good relationship with Inteplay (they published my second game), it will all boil down to money and whether or not Interplay is willing to let it go.
If I get it, I'm going to develop this game. NO amount of crying, magic, spellcasting, running outside naked and yelling or coming to my house with +2 Armor of God and +6 whupass, is going to change that. So, the ones making these crazy posts (the attention must be nice - try dating) might as well go to sleep tonight knowing that as tenacious as my reputation is, if there is ANY chance of obtaining this license, I'm going to get it.
YOU insulting lot have VERY few choices and options. You are either going to be a part of the end result or you remain a part of the problem that will let this legacy and much regarded franchise die with Freespace2. Think about this. It makes NO difference to me. I CONSISTENTLY develop, publish and sell games. So, its not like I don't have a project (considering that I have no less than THREE in development right this minute) to fund and develop. I do this out of love for the Freespace franchise and out of respect for what I - as a gamer and a space sim developer - deem to be a legacy and one of the greatest space sims ever developed.
That is all. As you were.
THe concern is that most of your games have received middling to appalling reviews. That's why there is less faith than you may wish to have. Whoever buys FS - unless it is Volition - will have a difficult time in convincing this community in that it is the right story, and the right comapny. It doesn't matter who that company is, these are concerns whichcan only be addressed through prolonged communication with the core fanbase.
Now, pointing out perceived flaws is not an insult - it's potential customer feedback. If people such as myself have concerns RE: your ability to provide adequate and respectful customer support, then maybe that is something you should address?
Now, you can;t try and paint us into a whole by telling us how few options we have. We know this - we've known this ever since Volition was bought by THQ. However, the question which concerns us which option of those few is right.
Now, I've stated that I don't have faith in your ability to deliver a game as good as Freespace 1 & 2 - I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. You did ask for opinions, and that's mine, like it or lump it.
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I think Derek that you should speak with the people of this community about your ideas, just as discussion. People just want to be reassured that you aren't going to move the franchise somewhere they don't want it to go.
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Not only he does have to make a game as good as FS1 or 2, he Must make a better one.
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Thing is "there will always be people who care about what you do" and those who will "not"
Please give the community a chance to hear what they say
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[size=9]SILENCE![/size]
No *****ing and moaning.
Only well-thought-out and insightful comments on the prospect of the further development of the FS series.
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It's simple. To meet up to the Freespace legacy, any FS3 would have to be the best space 'sim' ever created. That's what FS2 was, and that's what has to be beaten.
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(nw ppl. check it.)
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I wouldn't bother people, anything we say that he doesn't want to hear will simply be classed as...what was it?....crying, magic, spellcasting, running outside naked and yelling or coming to my house with +2 Armor of God and +6 whupass (What the hell is he talking about btw?).
I'll defend your right to write the game, but theres no defending that complete lack of people skills I'm afraid :(
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you said it aldo
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Are you illiterate, Flipside?!
SHUT UP!
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Originally posted by Flipside
I wouldn't bother people, anything we say that he doesn't want to hear will simply be classed as...what was it?....crying, magic, spellcasting, running outside naked and yelling or coming to my house with +2 Armor of God and +6 whupass (What the hell is he talking about btw?).
I have no idea. But hey, at least it adds colour. Maybe we can get Kazan here - that would make for an interesting debate......
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Originally posted by an0n
[size=9]SILENCE![/size]
No *****ing and moaning.
Only well-thought-out and insightful comments on the prospect of the further development of the FS series.
Wise . . . :yes:
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DSmart, firstly I'd like to remind you that to this community, FreeSpace 3 is a topic that has been debated for years and when it was heard that FS3 wasn't going to be made, many players took that as a punch in the face.
We as a group and a community are happy that someone has bought the license and is going to do a game, but that is where our concerns come in. We are worried that due to the nature of your previous games, you might alter the essence of FS. Another worry is that the story might not be the one that which [V] had in mind, and be, if you excuse my choice of words, a total crap compared to the other FreeSpace's. If you do try to develop FS3, please do your best so when it comes out, we can pride on it.
Please, do not take this as insult, and please remember that an individual doesn't count as a comunity. That is all.
Note: this is purely my opinion on the matter, and doesn't represent the opinion of the HLP community
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Originally posted by aldo_14
I have no idea. But hey, at least it adds colour. Maybe we can get Kazan here - that would make for an interesting debate......
Damn, you beat me to that one. That's like, flamewar of the century right there. :lol:
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Originally posted by Kamikaze
@Derek
Uh-huh. Not all the posts in this thread have been flaming and I'd like you not to bunch all of us together. I think it'd be better for you if you answered relevant questions and doubts and do it tactfully.
Despite all your whining and *****ing about how voracious fans are, you're quite hostile and *****y yourself (Y'know, all those prods at geekiness, lack of dating, whatever).
Advice: Drop the ego.
uhm, huh?
[list=1]
- I didn't insult anyone. I wrote in plain English. And if there is anyone here who doesn't understand English, they need to get someone transllate my verse for them.
- I NEVER said that all posts here were insulting or flaming. Again, my post was written in PLAIN English and where necessary, I tried to make the distinction when address those who HAVE been insulting and inflammatory.
- I'm not here to be a part of anyone's Q&A session. If I wanted to host one, I'd create my own thread and discuss it within. I do NOT intend on answering ANY questions as it relates to my plans if I do in fact get this license. IF I do feel the need to solicit comments, feedback etc, I know where to find the relevant parties.
- Yes, I have an ego. But thats not MY problem to deal with. I am quite comfortable with it just the way I am. I am an Alpha male. A leader. Not some snivelling idiot who gets to be anyone's ***** or Yes- man. Having an ego is a pre-requisite for being a stong person. Most people who bandy the word ego around, have NO frigging clue WHAT it even means. The word itself has just been passed down from one uninformed and ignorant generation to the next. Next time you get the chance, find out what the word really means and you will immediately see how out of place and out of context it is as is popularly used. Yes, I have an ego. Deal with it. I don't have a problem with it. So why should I care what a bunch of people think?
Originally posted by an0n
I think he fails to realise we're the only people who'd actually buy the thing.
How can I forget the group of people who couldn't make Freespace2 a retail success worthy of its effort? Do you REALLY want to go there?
Originally posted by Flipside
It's not so much the writing of Freespace 3 that concerns me, it's the attitude that we are a bunch of amatuers who haven't a clue what we are taking on with the SCP, and that our opinions which we've had 5 years to debate and hone, are of only minor worth :(
You have issues. I don't remember ANY post ANYWHERE where I even came ANYWHERE close to saying or infering that which you speak of. So please stop putting words in my mouth.
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I wonder if I can post this before the thread gets locked...
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Id be for a freespace 2 add-on, or freespace 2 the sequel, but FS3 should not be released for a time after something before it to bridge the gap we are sorely missing.
Considering the source code project as well, maybe this dude shld be working with HLP?
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Originally posted by Ghostavo
DSmart, firstly I'd like to remind you that to this community, FreeSpace 3 is a topic that has been debated for years and when it was heard that FS3 wasn't going to be made, many players took that as a punch in the face.
We as a group and a community are happy that someone has bought the license and is going to do a game, but that is where our concerns come in. We are worried that due to the nature of your previous games, you might alter the essence of FS. Another worry is that the story might not be the one that which [V] had in mind, and be, if you excuse my choice of words, a total crap compared to the other FreeSpace's. If you do try to develop FS3, please do your best so when it comes out, we can pride on it.
Please, do not take this as insult, and please remember that an individual doesn't count as a comunity. That is all.
Note: this is purely my opinion on the matter, and doesn't represent the opinion of the HLP community
Game developers always tend to do their best. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by an0n
Are you illiterate, Flipside?!
SHUT UP!
This is funny. An0n who never gave a damn about decorum trying to enforce good manners :lol: Now I know that Judgement Day is upon us :D
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Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
How can I forget the group of people who couldn't make Freespace2 a retail success worthy of its effort? Do you REALLY want to go there?
Ah, you see my point!
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Originally posted by Rictor
I am so smart! I am so smart!
S-M-R-T...I mean S-M-A-R-T.
For those of you who didn't get it SMRT is a Croatian (and Seribian) word for DEATH.....
Now on to buisness..
Derek, to tell the truth - the first BC was awensome, but the latest games were mediocre.
If you really want to make FS3 I only hope that you try and make it as FS2-ish as possible.
Keep everything that was good in the FS series... and listen to the edives of the comunity. They are the ones who'll be buying the game, and they have codded/modled/modded for FS since it came out.
Just look at some of the awensome mods out there, just look at teh SCP project - they should be your guidleine to how FS3 should be.
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If I get it, I'm going to develop this game. NO amount of crying, magic, spellcasting, running outside naked and yelling or coming to my house with +2 Armor of God and +6 whupass, is going to change that. So, the ones making these crazy posts (the attention must be nice - try dating) might as well go to sleep tonight knowing that as tenacious as my reputation is, if there is ANY chance of obtaining this license, I'm going to get it.
:wtf: First of all, this isn't a DnD forum. Reading your post makes me wonder why you posted here in the first place, if this is honestly what you think of us.If you'd said that we would come to your house waving phasers or blasters or whatever they use on Babylon 5, you would've been a helluva lot closer. :D
But please, try to get a general feel of who you're talking to before resorting to Comedy Central-style stereotypes.
Anyway...
So, lets cut the crap and get real here. Now. Would you rather NOT see another Freespace title in the retail channel, with high calibre values and from a team with a HISTORY and EXPERIENCE in making SPACE games? Or would you rather see it go to some larger company who is going to turn it into some unrecognizeable crap so they can leech off the Freespace name?
I'd like to see a Freespace 3 that supports the existing community by continuing in the same direction of the Freespace universe. It doesn't have to follow any mods or anything that's come from anywhere other than Volition to make me happy.
BUT I want to feel like I, the player, am able to explore the universe as well. I want to feel like I've got some say in what I can do with the game because, really, what makes your vision better than mine? Is it simply the fact that you've released five games? As a Freespace 2 fan, I don't care - I care if the game dev is willing to LISTEN to the fanbase to find out what works and what doesn't, and give them the freedom to explore their own storylines or universes using the engine itself.
And that, sir, is what I don't see you as being supportive of. From the small bit of heat you've received from the Freespace community, you've assumed that everyone is hostile. This isn't true; rather, your attitude that you're "going in a different direction" from the fans, who merely want to see Freespace 3 fully realized, and your own hostility towards the community at large, is what's gaining you such a bad reputation.
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Originally posted by an0n
Wheee, I can spam and no-one will notice!
Dream on. ;)
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Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
Yes, I have an ego. But thats not MY problem to deal with. I am quite comfortable with it just the way I am. I am an Alpha male. A leader. Not some snivelling idiot who gets to be anyone's ***** or Yes- man. Having an ego is a pre-requisite for being a stong person. Most people who bandy the word ego around, have to frigging clue WHAT it even means. The word itself has just been passed down from one uninformed and ignorant generation to the next. Next time you get the chance, find out what the word really means and you will immediately see how out of place and out of context it is as is popularly used. Yes, I have an ego. Deal with it. I don't have a problem with it. So why should I care what a bunch of people think?
[/list]
[/B]
I'm going to get all that tatooed on my back. Awesome, truly awesome.
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Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
Yes, I have an ego. But thats not MY problem to deal with. I am quite comfortable with it just the way I am. I am an Alpha male. A leader. Not some snivelling idiot who gets to be anyone's ***** or Yes- man. Having an ego is a pre-requisite for being a stong person.
Oh dear god.
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DSmart [3000AD]:
damnit!!! please argue to learn and NOT win :(
and that goes for everyone else
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Well, dunno. I have played BC3000AD a ( long ) while ago, wasn't overly impressed, but then again, I didn't have the keys ( it came on some CD cover ), so I understood nothing, and it was already old back then anyway. If Smart does get the license, if he at least contacts Volition to get their version of the FS3 story, he'll get my vote. If he blatantly ignores us for some stupid reason, he won't, because weither he likes it or not, w/o us, Freespace means crap, it'd be long dead.
Btw, he might have an attitude problem, but so do we. Should I remind you that we used to have Volition people posting here, and they all left because some people here acted like complete retards? WE ****ING DROVE THEM AWAY!
Drop the attitude? Sure, but that goes for us too.
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Originally posted by an0n
[size=9]SILENCE![/size]
No *****ing and moaning.
Only well-thought-out and insightful comments on the prospect of the further development of the FS series.
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Trashman, that was from the Simpsons man, its nothing to do with foreign languages :D:D
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Originally posted by an0n
[size=9]SILENCE![/size]
No *****ing and moaning.
Only well-thought-out and insightful comments on the prospect of the further development of the FS series.
Whee.
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Originally posted by an0n
Are you illiterate, Flipside?!
SHUT UP!
Now that's funny ;)
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Originally posted by aldo_14
I have no idea. But hey, at least it adds colour. Maybe we can get Kazan here - that would make for an interesting debate......
* closes thread preemptively *
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Originally posted by Tiara
No, it's your rep that caused it my friend. Sorry to say this but your games haven't been the greatest.[/size] [/B]
Blaming someone else for your actions is a sign of weakness. You are weak.
People usually fear that which they do not understand. I am a very complex and hard person to understand. I like it like that because - at the very least - it means that everyone knows where they stand with me.
As for greatest. A game does not have to be great. It just has to be FUN and PROFITABLE.
If you knew ANYTHING about the business of game development or the responsibilities of game developers and publishers, you would immediately recognize the ludicrousness of your post.
My plans for Freespace3, if I get it, are memorialized in these posts (http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005485). I have nothing further to add until the time comes.
This will be my last post.
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
I'd like to see a Freespace 3 that supports the existing community by continuing in the same direction of the Freespace universe. It doesn't have to follow any mods or anything that's come from anywhere other than Volition to make me happy.
BUT I want to feel like I, the player, am able to explore the universe as well. I want to feel like I've got some say in what I can do with the game because, really, what makes your vision better than mine? Is it simply the fact that you've released five games? As a Freespace 2 fan, I don't care - I care if the game dev is willing to LISTEN to the fanbase to find out what works and what doesn't, and give them the freedom to explore their own storylines or universes using the engine itself.
And that, sir, is what I don't see you as being supportive of. From the small bit of heat you've received from the Freespace community, you've assumed that everyone is hostile. This isn't true; rather, your attitude that you're "going in a different direction" from the fans, who merely want to see Freespace 3 fully realized, and your own hostility towards the community at large, is what's gaining you such a bad reputation.
PRECISELY. :D
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Originally posted by TopAce
Isn't it popular? I thought it was only relatively unpopular in the middle Europe(or only in Hungary. :nervous: )
Freespace (2 iespecially) flopped bigtime. The last great space-sim classic (in the tradition of X-wing and Wing Commander) that was developed... a couple of metaphorical minutes after the genre 'died off' (it'll probably be back, just like RPGs made it back, but not now).
I wouldn't be surprised at all if HLP has much of the still active (on the web) FS-fans assembled right here.
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:rolleyes:
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Well i gonna give him very small change with very very good luck it could be descent/good game), but well we see what happens
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hey Derrek ... first of all in those 13 years iv been a sci-fi fan ... this is the first time i have heard your name...
I'm not here to win any hearts, blow any minds, organize cookouts, take long walks in the park or pass around the walm milk.
winning the hearts of potential buyers IS your goal ... so dont say the opposite :) and some poeple liek warm milk ...
My games have been around for almost fifteen years
good for you ... never seen / played any ... actually iv never even been attracted to any ..
checked gamespot though seemes you get 3 out of 10 all around ... what an acomplishment.
eleased five games - all of which made money
yeah thats probobly because of the nice renders on the front of the box (which i can easily beat mind you)
Would you rather NOT see another Freespace
yes i would rather NOT see another freespace game if it was not developed by the same people [v] ... because it would be all wrong.
a HISTORY and EXPERIENCE in making SPACE games?
never heard of any of your socalled space games untill today ... so what history?
NO amount of crying, magic, spellcasting, running outside naked and yelling or coming to my house with +2 Armor of God and +6 whupass, is going to change that.
magic dosent exist .. come down from the clouds matey ... P90's on the other hand DO exist.
YOU insulting lot have VERY few choices and options.
i can think of one ... not buying your game.
I CONSISTENTLY develop, publish and sell games.
that would be the reason noone likes your games ... theyr half cooked (from what i hear)
I do this out of love for the Freespace franchise and out of respect for what I - as a gamer and a space sim developer - deem to be a legacy and one of the greatest space sims ever developed.
that sounded very political ... to bad i have no faith in politycs so cut the bull**** and try not to smear the name of freespace with another one of your underdone games just because you want more money.
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Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
uhm, huh?
[list=1]
- I didn't insult anyone. I wrote in plain English. And if there is anyone here who doesn't understand English, they need to get someone transllate my verse for them.
- I NEVER said that all posts here were insulting or flaming. Again, my post was written in PLAIN English and where necessary, I tried to make the distinction when address those who HAVE been insulting and inflammatory.
- I'm not here to be a part of anyone's Q&A session. If I wanted to host one, I'd create my own thread and discuss it within. I do NOT intend on answering ANY questions as it relates to my plans if I do in fact get this license. IF I do feel the need to solicit comments, feedback etc, I know where to find the relevant parties.
- Yes, I have an ego. But thats not MY problem to deal with. I am quite comfortable with it just the way I am. I am an Alpha male. A leader. Not some snivelling idiot who gets to be anyone's ***** or Yes- man. Having an ego is a pre-requisite for being a stong person. Most people who bandy the word ego around, have to frigging clue WHAT it even means. The word itself has just been passed down from one uninformed and ignorant generation to the next. Next time you get the chance, find out what the word really means and you will immediately see how out of place and out of context it is as is popularly used. Yes, I have an ego. Deal with it. I don't have a problem with it. So why should I care what a bunch of people think?
An ego (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ego) is a natural barrier to accepting the customer feedback that is necessarry in developing any game. Put simply, it makes it increasingly likely that a developer would find it hard to change their ideas to satisfy the player.
Now, claiming to be an 'alpha male' - is just strange. Insofar as I can tell, you're not leading a pack of followers in this forum at least. And 'alpha males' in any significant group also have to prove themselves worthy, rather than assume the position. That is what you will have to do here to get this community's trust & goodwill.
And of course, it leads me to believe your attitude is that you are always right, rather than the customer. And that, Mr Smart, is quite likely to be a massive barrier to developing a good, acessible game.
Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
How can I forget the group of people who couldn't make Freespace2 a retail success worthy of its effort? Do you REALLY want to go there?
So.... does that mean in order to make FS3 a success, you would ignore the existing community? i.e. the people who are most likely to buy the damn thing? Who will you be aiming this theoretical sequel at, then?
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Originally posted by Styxx
* closes thread preemptively *
Please DO not!
Originally posted by aldo_14
... does that mean in order to make FS3 a success, you would ignore the existing community? i.e. the people who are most likely to buy the damn thing? Who will you be aiming this theoretical sequel at, then?
Also, nobody else but these people know what things can be improved on FreeSpace. Nobody knows the game better than them.
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Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
Blaming someone else for your actions is a sign of weakness. You are weak.
That made my day. Its so awesome, we don't get this kind of entertainment often.
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God this is hillarious, we have someone with the debating skills of a gorilla trying to write the game we've *****ed about for years, our resident troll is being nice and acting mod-like, and...
wait...
[q]Oh dear god.[/q]
Aye. That's it. Time to give up.
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Styxx, honey, check Derek's IP.
I wanna make sure it's not just Rictor being a tool.
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Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
Blaming someone else for your actions is a sign of weakness. You are weak.
As for greatest. A game does not have to be great. It just has to be FUN and PROFITABLE.
If you knew ANYTHING about the business of game development or the responsibilities of game developers and publishers, you would immediately recognize the ludicrousness of your post.
We want a good game - not one designed to be average and make money. Are you really suggesting that you'd prefer to churn out a money making game than a good one?
Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
This will be my last post.
Congratulations. For an alpha male, you would seem to be terrified of a little - god forbid - constructive criticism.
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Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
Blaming someone else for your actions is a sign of weakness. You are weak.
[/b]
My actions? LOL! And I'm not blaming you, I'm simply pointing out facts. get your material straight.
As for greatest. A game does not have to be great. It just has to be FUN and PROFITABLE.
It's not gonna be either this way.
If you knew ANYTHING about the business of game development or the responsibilities of game developers and publishers, you would immediately recognize the ludicrousness of your post.
This will be my last post. [/B]
:wtf: My husband is in that branch you doofus. I know a ****load about what your 'business' is about. Seriously, you are worse then I thought.
You just sank to the bottom of the respect pit and drowned in the crap below that.
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Don't close this!!!!!!!!
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Aldo. Excellent post.
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PHEAR MY DRAGONS!
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Ok, what are the PC magazines we can write to? :drevil:
He throws with mud, we can throw a ****load of it right in his face. We have enough of his stupidity in this thread to publish. :drevil:
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Excuse me when I say so, but this guy comes off as a dick.
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Anon: :wtf:
I'm not going to say I wasn't laughing at that, but stop please
-
Voodoo Extreme already has the news sitting in their inbox, along with links to both this thread and the one on AVault. I tried sending it to BluesNews as well, but my email is being wierd.
-
Hmmmmmmmm.. store his posts, the computer magazine idea sounds more and more appealing ;)
-
What a day for HLP history. . .
-
Fire off one at PCGamer while you're at it.
-
What a day for FS history...
-
Originally posted by an0n
Styxx, honey, check Derek's IP.
I wanna make sure it's not just Rictor being a tool.
Apparently not, he's the only member using that IP. And his verified e-mail is from 3000ad.com, so I guess it's him alright.
-
Slashdot, you fools.
Slashdot.
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Originally posted by jdjtcagle
What a day for HLP history. . .
Has any threads ever grown this long in such a short period?
-
Well, it would appear Mr. Smart has left the building. Shameful, really.
However, this is the root of my concern;
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/561677.asp
As you can see, very poor games.
I have seen this before - Smart was taking flak in a Blues News thread, and took the huff - again declaring it would be his last post (from forum with an insult)
I would also like to add that you don't need to know anything about games development to judge a game or its designer. It is the indisputable right of the consumer to do so.
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Originally posted by Thorn
Fire off one at PCGamer while you're at it.
PCGamer... that's one.
Ok, who else? :drevil:
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Originally posted by TopAce
Has any threads ever grown this long in such a short period?
Who cares, were about to have our favorite passtime's future screwed over by a pompous mogul of mediocrity.
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Originally posted by Tiara
PCGamer... that's one.
Ok, who else? :drevil:
Blues News, I'd suggest. http://www.bluesnews.com/
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And keep this thing civil... I'd love to close it, so it won't take much to convince me. I already don't like the tone of many of the posts.
;)
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Originally posted by an0n
Slashdot, you fools.
Slashdot.
Who here has a Flashdot account? :drevil:
Come on guys... come on!
-
Originally posted by TopAce
Has any threads ever grown this long in such a short period?
The Road Trip thread grew a lot faster than this, actually.
-
SLA-SH-DO-T
-
Mwahahahahaha! All we need now is to build a Freespace 3 box out of cheap cardboard and sell it on Ebay ;)
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Originally posted by Styxx
And keep this thing civil... I'd love to close it, so it won't take much to convince me. I already don't like the tone of many of the posts.
;)
It's hard to, sometimes :)
It's stange - virtually any other developer announcing an interest in FS3 would start celebrations here.
-
We need a thread discussing whom is mailing whom. I wouldn't mind mailing PCGamer at all.
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Bah, I'd have the money, I'd buy the ****ing license, and... no, I wouldn't make FS3, I'd lock in in some dark cave and let it rot :p
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Tiara dear calm down :) dont want you to get upset or anythign ;)
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Originally posted by Styxx
The Road Trip thread grew a lot faster than this, actually.
I think we all need a roat trip.
And geez, settle down people. Try to not act like rabid cancer monkeys, ok?
-
Originally posted by aldo_14
I would also like to add that you don't need to know anything about games development to judge a game or its designer. It is the indisputable right of the consumer to do so.
Of course it is. Or we'd just buy any game that a developer told us was good. :)
I can't believe that Mr Smart didn't realise that.
-
Send one off to Computer Gaming World as well, while you guys are at it.
Never in my life have I ever seen someone who could make himself come off as such a prick when (well, most) of the people hes addressing are giving just constructive criticism.
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Originally posted by Nico
Bah, I'd have the money, I'd buy the ****ing license, and... no, I wouldn't make FS3, I'd lock in in some dark cave and let it rot :p
I'd just give the SCP free-reign and whore out tons of merchandise.
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Originally posted by Shrike
I think we all need a roat trip.
And geez, settle down people. Try to not act like rabid cancer monkeys, ok?
But it's what we do best..... :nervous:
I started off giving a short, and polite, speech on Adrenaline Vault, just pointing him in the direction of the SCP and asking him not to forget that we exist, and, well, the reply basically shrugged off the work of the entire community. He didn't make a good start there with me, I'm afraid :(
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Originally posted by Flipside
But it's what we do best..... :nervous:
Feh. If you guys keep it up I'm gonna change everyone's title to Cancer Monkey.
-
The views a going up by the hundred in seconds... :eek2:
-
*mauls Shrike*
-
Originally posted by Shrike
Feh. If you guys keep it up I'm gonna change everyone's title to Cancer Monkey.
Actually, I'd quite like a new title :nervous:
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Originally posted by an0n
*mauls Shrike*
Behave.
-
Someone archive the thread before the hammer drops, we need to preserve this as a bit of HLP history.
As I said, Voodoo Extreme already knows. The news is on their front page, if you're wondering, I'm Dan.
-
*humps shrike*
-
Originally posted by aldo_14
Actually, I'd quite like a new title :nervous:
Ok, we'll note it down to not give you one then. :p
-
Seriously, someone from the Interview crew should go talk to him.
-
Does anyone have the contact info for Interplay? I think our best hope now is to start some sort of dialogue with them for the Freespace rights. The idea of a community pool has come up before, and I'd be willing to contribute at LEAST $20, possibly more. If even half the members on HLP contributed just that much, there'd be $20,000 dollars right there.
I've been able to find this so far:
http://www.computerhope.com/comp/iplay.htm
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A cancer monkey, is that from a test lab?
Also: I'd donate money to a fund.
-
Hello Dan ;)
I suggest you come back Derek, please post some more, try not to flame (on both sides all of us)
-
submitted as back page gamer news on www.neowin.net
http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=190899
-
Hell, tell Penny Arcade. :nervous:
-
Submitted mail about this to http://www.bluesnews.com/
:p Seriously, publicity for him will go backwards from now on :p
-
Lets face it. Now that Derek Smart is involved the amount of money most of the community members are willing to part with to buy the license has at least tripled :D
-
@KT we'd all be mocked... in a fun way tho...
-
Originally posted by Knight Templar
Hell, tell Penny Arcade. :nervous:
hell yeah :D That'd be funny :D
-
Heh, tell Something Awful...
-
Originally posted by Styxx
Ok, we'll note it down to not give you one then. :p
fine then. I like it as it is.
:p
Odds are, if the FS rights are up for grab, we'd be outbid. Look on the bright side - we've been resigned to the death of FS for years now. If Derek Smart buys the rights and develops a **** sequel, then we don't have to buy it, mod it or even give it a forum here.
If, much as I doubt it, it turns out to be as good as or better than FS2, then more power to him.
But we can't really lose, can we? - if Derek Smart gets the license, then it'll be because no-one else wants it.
With the SCP and Ferrium, we already have a future mapped out for Freespace.
-
Originally posted by Knight Templar
Hell, tell Penny Arcade. :nervous:
Good Idea. Anyone know someone on the staff? If not I'll send them an E-mail.
-
La Resistance (http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1983)
-
send this to Penny Arcade, pronto. They'll have some fun with it. Make sure to include all the good quotes.
-
Anyhow, since it's never an idea to go off half-cocked I'd want to know more about this, such as if any Volition crew are going to be involved, is the story done by Volition or someone else, etc.
-
Originally posted by Tiara
PCGamer... that's one.
actually that's many:
PCGamer UK, US, France, Belgium/Netherlands, Australia, Spain, Sweden, Russia, Italy, Israel, Malaysia and more...
-
I'll drop one to Penny-Arcade.
-
I'd still like to see if we could buy the licence ourselves. Maybe we should start a thread :)
-
Seriously, this thread is SO gonna get closed.
And I'm a traffic whore, so head out to NW
http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1983
-
Originally posted by an0n
La Resistance (http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1983)
[size=1212]Vive La Resistance (http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1983)[/size]
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Lets face it. Now that Derek Smart is involved the amount of money most of the community members are willing to part with to buy the license has at least tripled
Good, because if Interplay have bidders, so will the price :(
-
I think we get the picture there anon and tiara.
-
This thread is going to put Interplay back in buisiness :p
-
*will send another to Penny Arcade, just for security*
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I'm not sure what to make of it.
If and when FS3 does come out, I'll judge then. Until then, it's not worth our time, and let's concentrate on other things.
I liked 3000ad's game desire for scope. I always found myself frustrated about many things, but at least they tried to push it that far, and showed that such a game could be done. I bought Battlecruiser Millennium and I loved the scope but there were alot of annoyances that came along with it.
FS3, if kept in line with FS2 and FS is completely different, so I dunno if we can judge it on his past work. DS hasn't published other games other than the BC series, so we'll never know what it'll be like.
Anyways, i'll leave this be.
Cheers!
-
Oh dear.
I miss JE Sawyer. Well, actually, I miss the developers at Black Isle. They were all cool, but it's JE I remember, 'cause of when I came to the BIS boards. He was intelligent - started up a forum dedicated to the discussion of history, and later philosophy, religion and politics as well. He was witty - quoteworthy material and all, 'specially when he donned the mantle of the moderator Overseer.
(I still chuckle at POP CAIN'S FRUIT STAND).
More pertinently, he often discussed his plans for Fallout 3 with the BIS forum-goers, even when it was still being called 'Van Buren'.
He'd come in and start a supposedly hypothetical thread about party management or the use of weapons in a theoretical tactical-combat RPG or the matter of turn-based game vs. real-time game vs. game with both, and everyone would weigh in and he'd make counterarguments and the thread would progress from there, with, during the first few months, the implicit understanding that he was talking about 'Van Buren', the secret Fallout 3 project. Ye, and it was good, and pure, and clean.
I don't know whether he actually changed any ideas about Fallout 3 based on what the people said on the boards - probably not, considering how... extreme the Fallout Fanboys could be at times. But, on reflection, I don't think that was the point at all. I think the point was that there was a connection between developer and gamer, producer and consumer.
Perhaps, if money is your only concern, that doesn't matter; so long as they lap it up, who cares what they think of you? Message board visitors are not representative of the population at large; they are a tiny, hardcore faction of a much larger customer base. Then again, consider perhaps the value of word of mouth. I'm given to understand that the RPG Planescape Torment did not sell well at first (no wonder, considering the aesthetic attributes of the box cover and dire marketing). However, over time, hardcore RPG fans would go up to people who had been hooked on Baldur's Gate and similar games and say 'Well, if you liked that, then you might want to try this...' like a dealer giving his favourite customer a taste of the harder stuff.
And it turned out, PST did rather well after all. No, not a Half-life or Deus Ex or whatever that spawns a thousand insidious sequels and rip-offs that maraude across the gaming cosmos, leaving only unoriginality in their wake. But, as a slow-burner, it did actually do quite well.
Of course, this is just me saying this, with, naturally, my flawed perception of matters based off vague recollections of posts by Chris Avellone and other BIS devs... but something to think about, perhaps, when one dismisses the hardcore fanbase... even if one's primary goal is money and not producing a great game that truly contains the spirit of Freespace 2, or whatever artsiness you want to include here.
Though I'm not entirely sure why I just spent all this time reading and responding to this thread. I don't even know who this guy is or what games he has made, after all.
Eh, not as if I don't have time to waste anyway. No matter.
-
Check the latest pennyarcade cartoon - it's soooo fitting.
-
I've ate 3 bags of sunflower seed because of this thread :D
-
You disgust me :p
-
Wait till I smile :D
-
So will it be called Freespace 3 or not? If your gonna do what it sounds like, and in essense, do one of your typical, explore the universe games with lots of complicated controls in FS, its not really a direct sequal. Its more of a say, Freespace: Universe or something, a spin-off, not a true homage to the original.
-
Wait till I smile :D
:lol:
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Originally posted by vyper
Check the latest pennyarcade cartoon - it's soooo fitting.
Indeed...is it just me, or does that blue-and-gold thingy look like a Freespace fighter? :D
For anyone interested in getting the rights to Freespace:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,25171.0.html
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,25170.0.html
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http://www.penny-arcade.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2958060#2958060
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I'm sorry, I have to do this:
Your cynicism appauls me David, I have over 5000 members and admins willing to die for FS2! Even if we send the forum and members to hell this monstrosity will be stopped!
Ahem... carry on. ;)
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Originally posted by vyper
I'm sorry, I have to do this:
Your cynicism appauls me David, I have over 5000 members and admins willing to die for FS2! Even if we send the forum and members to hell this monstrosity will be stopped!
Ahem... carry on. ;)
....
You worry me. It's just a game. :p
-
You gotta respect the referencing at least... :p
-
vyper - It's Derek... :p
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Heathen! FS IS LIFE!
-
Erm, ****.
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BTW in case people we didn't notice we've smashed the previous record for the largest number of people online by another 20 people :)
I guess people consider this somewhat important :D
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I'm scared to go to bed, I'll have to read through about 100 posts after work tomorrow ;)
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Won't Setekh be surprised... :p
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You now who should make the game (other than [V] or HLP itself?)
Braben. I think he'd do well. He could actually turn it into a large-scope game (as BC tries to) and have it be easily accessible yet deep. After all, this is the man who created 'Elite' and was awarded godhood because of it ;)
seriously: FS is about fighters first and foremost, it's family of Wing Commander and X-Wing/Tie-fighter in that respect. Roamin freel through the FS universe might be all fine and dandy (and yes, it would be a cool thing to have a privateer-style game in the FS universe) but something like that wouldn't be FS3 really. Just like the original Wing Commander Privateer wasn't WC3
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But Braben is such an Anal Retentive it takes him 3 days to digest a meal :( He surfs the Net telling people to remove everything vaguely Elitish that he finds. He makes A.K. Rowling look like Shareware!
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Braben is already working on Rollercoaster Tycoon 3 & Elite 4, IIRC
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You know, unlike many people in this thread, I'd probably buy it, assuming it wasn't trashed in the reviews. Realistically, what other space sim games are you going to spend your money on?
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Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80
You now who should make the game (other than [V] or HLP itself?
Braben. I think he'd do well. He could actually turn it into a large-scope game (as BC tries to) and have it be easily accessible yet deep. After all, this is the man who created 'Elite' and was awarded godhood because of it ;)
I really like this idea.
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Meh, I'm off of Adrenaline Vault now, all that's left is the local, and somewhat pathetic troll :)
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Braben is already working on Rollercoaster Tycoon 3 & Elite 4, IIRC
I know.
I'm saying he should make it. Just saying he would be a good choice to make it should 'FS3' include this 'lets-roam-though-the-universe' modus. After all he's the man who basically invented the sub-genre and made the prototype -which hasn't been bested yet.
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Someone call me?
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Originally posted by Flipside
Meh, I'm off of Adrenaline Vault now, all that's left is the local, and somewhat pathetic troll :)
Yeah. I get the impression that many of the people 'for' Derek Smart may have been those poor souls who bought his other 'games.
-
LOL Anon : Naaaa.. Adrenaline Vault has this guy going on about a game called GORE!!!, though he calls it
GORE!!! > lamespace.
So, what do you think, 12, possibly 13?
-
I think it's Virtu.
-
LOL Could be, I never checked the IP address, though he was happy to tell me it was a rotating one as if I cared :)
Either way, he's kinda repetitive, and he just can't get into the flow of a real insult like you can :D
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Originally posted by Flipside
LOL Anon : Naaaa.. Adrenaline Vault has this guy going on about a game called GORE!!!, though he calls it
GORE!!! > lamespace.
So, what do you think, 12, possibly 13?
Funny I just posted about there maturity before your post...
-
Apparently, Mr. Smart considers developing FS to be
"My post was clear. My POINT was that for someone who has a made a living and career from developing COMPLEX games, doing an action focused same sim with NO relation or scope to the type of games I develop, would be BELOW my skill level. Why? Because my level of advancement, experience and knowledge in this area, are BEYOND that which is needed to do games that NOT of the scope of the gmaes that....aw screw this I'm tired. Fill in the blanks. I'm going outside to pet my neighbor's dog."
This worries me greatly, and I've posted to that effect over there.
-
Meh, I'll wait and see, I just wish Kazan had been here to be honest. That would have been a sight I'd have paid money to see ;)
-
OK i normally wouldn't get into this in the open, but here goes.
some of you people piss me off.
I agree that derek's arrogance is misplaced when one contemplates the playbility and fun of his games, but the fact is, he may very well get the liscence to FS3. The attitude shown here may very well have cost any of us a consultation, and the big thing you were *****ing about? none of us being consulted? Well who the hell are we anyway? We are a bunch of fans who love a game, we are not people who have put out 5 games in 15 years.
On the other hand, we are people who have played alot more than 15 games in 15 years. I think that to sum it all up for Mr. Smart, we recognize your business genius, we also recognize that you have led teams to successful development of space sims. We now ask that you recognize the fears of the people who would be purchasing the game you contemplate. I've played BCM. I find the ability to choose my character interesting. I also find the controls interface to be very cumbersome and unwieldy. In other words, like most games, it has good points and bad points. I'm not going to flame you. You are a business man. That i can understand and apreciate.
I do have a few questions for you.
1. Why would you take a dead title that wasn't received well in the first place and invest money in it?
2. You've mentioned the eye candy as positive draw of freespace, and while i agree with this statement, i think that what most of us are worried about is the storyline. Something that hasn't been mentioned. I've said before and i will say again that too much eyecandy detracts from the storyline, case in point, the last two star wars movies. the story in freespace was much more important than the eyecandy, although i agree that the eyecandy was awesome. My question is, what do you see as your top priority in the development of this game?
3. You've stated that you would attempt to remain true to, or at least consult the fs mythos. a new engine isn't a bad thing, however a complete overhaul of our controls and flight characteristics i would think would be detrimental. How much change can we expect in our hud, controls and flight characteristics?
I only ask this because I am a classic battletech fan, and i was highly upset at the new look of the mechs in mech4, the redone hud, and the way they looked so damned prissy when they walked. a 45 ton shadowcat should not be prissy.
4. in relation to question 1, the space combat sim genre is all but dead, people are more into first person shooters. How agressive an advertising campaign do you plan to develop, and do you think it will be agressive enough to overcome the current market state?
5. as an avid PC Sim gamer, the main thing i look for in a game is playabitity. Playability equals fun, fun being one half of the equation you gave us for creating a successful game. How would you go about creating that playability?
6. Have you taken into account the oportunity cost of your actions here today? I too am a businessman, and if i were to treat my potential customers as shabbily as you seem to treat yours, i would not be in business for long. So allow me to rephrase that question....Do you think it wise to alienate the only people who really care about a sequel to a dead name in a dead market? and yes, i mant to use the word "name".
7. If you are willing to pick up the rights to freespace and chance freespace 3 in the current market conditions, then you must have some faith in the game in its initial inception. You must see the game as a potential source of profit, profit being the second half of the equation you gave to us. So bearing those givens in mind, where did your good friends at Interplay go wrong?
8. You've stated that we are a group going in a different direction. Are we to take this to mean that you have also been in contact with Volition and know what direction they were taking?
If this is the case then please tell us now so that we can all stop working on what will obviously be wrong.
9. You've asked if we would rather see fs3 not get done. I say to that "you're damn right". I for one would prefer that FS3 live only in our dreams, rather than see it be released and be a farce. Knowing this, why should I, the cunsumer, your paycheck, take a chance and buy FS3? Also keep in mind that I have played games that you have been involved with, and while good games, i also found them lacking.
10. Who the hell do you think you are? You think that because you have the money to buy the rights to FS3 that we are supposed to prostrate ourselves before you and kiss your ass? We have put more work, and heart and soul into freespace than you havbe put into all of your games combined. You want to see the future of Freespace? Look no further, you've found it. I will not sit by while you use your arrogance, 10 letter words, and poor spelling in an attempt to belittle the very people that you hope to market this game to. The simple fact is, you sir, know in your heart that your work was never quite good enough, and the only way for you to look good is to make others look bad. I dare you to come up with a better team of coders who have done what our guys have done, for free. I also dare you to find models that are more deserving of the freespace legacy than what you will find here. I also dare you to find some 3000 ad fans who are as rabid as we are when it comes to our game.
You can't. Your arrogance alone is enough to keep me from buying FS3. In this community you have people who are the best at what they do. When dealing with the limitations of FS2, they have had to become the best. How dare you post that they can be eclipsed. Your own weakness is your arrogance. Arrogance and ego are not the same. Arrogance and confidence are not the same. Take it from someone who has played your games, they are good, but not great, and as such, your arrogance must stem from your wallet, it can't stem from your talent.
My final Question.
You've come in and pretty much told the market for this venture to kiss your ass. Do you still expect a dead name in a dead market to be a success?
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Hear hear, ShadowWolf! (to all of your points, not just the last one) I couldnt agree more completely :)
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It's all calming down, I'm goin t'bed.
Don't get us shut down while I'm gone ladies.
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Woah, that was good one Shadowwolf:)
-
dammit! *GRumbles*
I need more time -- i could preempt this mother ****er given a little more time!
-
Yay!!!! :p
You needed a break from religion
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Yep, I think that pretty much sums it up :)
-
Come on, let's not start the insults over...
-
Good quote from PA.
How are they supposed to market this?
"From the man who ****ed up Battlecruiser 3000AD and Universal Combat comes..."
-
Originally posted by Kazan
dammit! *GRumbles*
I need more time -- i could preempt this mother ****er given a little more time!
you go!
-
Kaz, if he does get the rights, would it probably mean that Ferrium would have to be a generic Space Sim engine, and not a Freespace 2 one?
-
Any chance of someone posting Shadowwolf's comments over on Adrenaline vault.
-
Why? they are unreasonable...
But, it's worth a try
-
This tread is flying like a crazed hawk on steroids!
Several pages in one hour!
-
Just let me sign up.
-
*rememebers religion and Road trip threads*
Ahh, the fun! :D
-
;)
-
I've just realised. I've got the first post on a thread that is going to be linked to by a large portion of the gaming world.
What's the best, most beautiful SCP pic we have. It NEEDS to be up there.
-
Singhs!!!!
-
Has anyone actually thought to email [V]?
-
Originally posted by jdjtcagle
Singhs!!!!
:nod:
-
:D
(http://www.fattonys.com/images/upload/My%20Render711.jpg)
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Originally posted by Thorn
Has anyone actually thought to email [V]?
Well it is mentioned several times in this thread :p
-
that would be good idea me thinks.
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sorry i just had to own him on AVault for his arrogance
-
*reads*
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Originally posted by jdjtcagle
Singhs!!!!
Yeah but which specific pic?
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More suggestions:
http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/hlp/file_show.php?fil=270
http://s93727692.onlinehome.us/screenies/faustus.png
http://s93727692.onlinehome.us/screenies/rak.png
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Kazan you are the man!!!
Kara: he took the one I wanted down :(
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Haha, holy ****, NOW hes threatening us! :lol:
"I've seen your infantile posts on HLP and the notion that arguing with an idiot will end up getting you down to their level, fits you like a glove.
Word of warning. People are already setting themselves up to get banned (I think one may have already been banned). There is a very low tolerance threshold around here for the type of behavior you and your [HLP] kinds have displayed here. Unlike that lawless cesspit at HLP, these forums are actually moderated. Healthy debates are welcome. Flames are not.
Let me assure you of one thing that you can go to sleep with tonite. I have FULL intentions of getting this license. If I DO get it, you and your teenny leetle friends on your Ferrous Oxide project, are effectively, shutdown because I don't piss around when it comes to IP properties. You would do well to ask around. I've sued publishers for less and I have attorneys around the world, literally on speed dial.
Now, I will leave you with that thought, as I retired for the evening.
You will eventually come to regret this day. Mark my words."
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I'll put up the faustus one for now but one of the admins can swap it for a high poly ship image once we have a good one if they wish.
As for Ferrium if we don't use any FS2 stuff in the offical release he can do bugger all about it.
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Could we sue? I'm shaking
ROTFLMAO :lol:
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http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005485
Here's the link so we don't have to keep going back and orth :p
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That would be funny indeed. By the way, posted ShadowWolf's post over there.
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LOL! What an ass... Hiding behind his lawyers. Here in holland they can do exactly Jack ****ing **** :d
All, come to holland! :D
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ph34r t3h l4wl3ss Dutch!
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You know, we may not have the best grammar in the world, and use abbreviations a lot, but I think that is probably the rudest collection of people I have ever met on any Forum. Some of them are ok, but when the Thread Starter start calling HLP a cesspit, I think the Admins should be looking into the matter.
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I know, I read that too. Pretty rich if you ask me.
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he stopped responding to me, i think he realized he's outmatch
PS: HE cannot touch Ferrium OR the SCP as neither have any intellectual property that belongs to interplay
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:nod:
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I mean, fine, if I don't like the game, I won't buy it, and the Adrenaline Vault forums are pretty good, I've lurked in there before, but to resort to 8-year old behaviour?
I think If the guy wants to do it, and we can't afford to buy the license out from under his nose (which we can't), then just ignore him, as jdt suggested, treat it like Jurassic Park 3, the crap one that no-one talks about :)
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Originally posted by Flipside
we can't afford to buy the license out from under his nose (which we can't),
i said give me time
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You don't have to go rob a bank or anything Kaz.
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Crazy Ivan has the best line yet!
Ivan on Derek Smartass
He has an ass the size of a Sathanas I agree. But it's uglier, hairier and generally more obnoxious.
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Where's the Colossus when you need it? :nervous:
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I can't keep track of it all, keep us posted on his "I'll sue you ass of" BS.
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"Command, we're ramming that ass..."
"Godspeed, Collosus."
i almost wanted to say 'rimming' instead of 'ramming'.
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we don't need to buy the rights to fs3. we have MT.
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Let's all make Freespace 2.9 as a true community, pimp it all over the net and make his FS3 look like an outdated verion of Pong. :D
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http://www.werewolves.org/~follies/
Apparently this behaviour is typical of him.
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I never thought I'd say this, but thank God for Ferium......
Urgh. I feel so dirty.
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Thorn: Interesting......
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very
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Now post it over at AV :D
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I tried to feel sorry for the guy. I really did. But he's the most insulting person I've read comments from outside of a political campaign.
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Tiara: done!
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Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
First Post
Gents, some of the posts in this thread, are EXACTLY the reason why game developers AND publishers hardly pay attention to a game's fanbase.
So, go ahead, insult me all you want. Fat lot of good THAT is going to do. If anything, your posts will serve as indication to the industry in general, that well, those of you who want to turn this into a pissing content, are NOT worthy of anything tangible with regards to this franchise or anything associated with it. Look, they're not giving out library cards for bad behavior. So, if you can't behave at home, at the VERY least, have some self respect and behave yourself when in the company of others who are deserving of respect.
Now we're got that out of the way, lets see....
I'm not here to win any hearts, blow any minds, organize cookouts, take long walks in the park or pass around the walm milk. All I want to say it if anyone has played ANY of my games, not to mention the recently released Universal Combat, it should be clearly apparent that you're not dealing with some fly-by-night developer of a mod crew thats going to disappear overnight.
My games have been around for almost fifteen years, believe it or not and I have so far released five games - all of which made money - and I have an install base that clearly eclipses you lot. By a galaxy wide margin. My game - believe it or not - was one of those that made money for Interplay. They didn't lose money on it, not matter how much or how little it made. I got paid. They got their money's worth and I join the ranks for those who are saddened by their demise as I had some really good friends there.
So, lets cut the crap and get real here. Now. Would you rather NOT see another Freespace title in the retail channel, with high calibre values and from a team with a HISTORY and EXPERIENCE in making SPACE games? Or would you rather see it go to some larger company who is going to turn it into some unrecognizeable crap so they can leech off the Freespace name?
I'm ACTIVELY trying to get the license and given that I had a really good relationship with Inteplay (they published my second game), it will all boil down to money and whether or not Interplay is willing to let it go.
If I get it, I'm going to develop this game. NO amount of crying, magic, spellcasting, running outside naked and yelling or coming to my house with +2 Armor of God and +6 whupass, is going to change that. So, the ones making these crazy posts (the attention must be nice - try dating) might as well go to sleep tonight knowing that as tenacious as my reputation is, if there is ANY chance of obtaining this license, I'm going to get it.
YOU insulting lot have VERY few choices and options. You are either going to be a part of the end result or you remain a part of the problem that will let this legacy and much regarded franchise die with Freespace2. Think about this. It makes NO difference to me. I CONSISTENTLY develop, publish and sell games. So, its not like I don't have a project (considering that I have no less than THREE in development right this minute) to fund and develop. I do this out of love for the Freespace franchise and out of respect for what I - as a gamer and a space sim developer - deem to be a legacy and one of the greatest space sims ever developed.
That is all. As you were.
I'd like to see a developer stop flapping his gums back at the community. I want a developer who will work with the community rather then shout out his accolades and demand respect.
Im offended by your statement, and even more offended you would talk to this community in such a way. Although some of this community is harsh, they have always spoke their mind and as a PROFESSIONAL its up to YOU to take it as critism and with a grain of salt, sir.
Now with that in mind, perhaps you will see between the harshness and realize this community LOVES the Freespace Franchise, so much so they would rather NOT see FS3 then see it developed by the likes of someone who will make it worse then it was, and most importantly one who wont work with the community in a professional manner and learn to just take his lumps and work together to ensure the Freespace Legacy remains alive and intact.
I also would like to point out that HLP is the biggest Freespace MOD community you will find, most professional as well. We have people here that have been modding freespace for a very very long time, and a very good base of developers doing source code additions and thought of bringing us FS3 on their own.
With that being said, FS3 would of lived on with or without you. So take your holier then thou attitude, sweep it under the rug and do whats right. Work with us, not only because you can make a few bucks, but because we can HELP YOU make freespace three the most kick ass Space Sim Game imaginable.
Ive personally worked with the Freespace Universe Timeline researchers, mission makers, mod makers, etc... and can say one thing for this "lot" as you called them: They are the most dedicated, creative and emotional people you will ever meet. What may be lacking in knowledge is more then made up for with enthusiasm and the desire to know more.
I dont wish to end this conversation in a bad light, atleast personally. I dont know you or your work, only what you have said initially, i still respect you and obviously you know what your doing. If you do take this title and decide to finally make it, think about coming here alot and getting a consensus on things people want. I can assure you we all know what gaming is all about, we all know what it takes to make a good game so when it gets to that time of designing this title keep our little forum in mind and try not to let the artists emotions get to you too much ;)
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We looks like the HLP people have some competition now. I hope you guys take it to them good (by making Freepsace 2.9 better then ever before :) )
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You know, it's really too bad Bioware doesn't have the expertise for this. They have some of the best gaming company employees I've seen.
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Well as long as he continues the freespace story and answer some unanswered questions that freespace 2 left us with then that would be great. But in the same sense FS3 better have the same appeal that fs1 & fs2 had (gameplay,graphic,sound etc)
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Hell, get milo from Starshatter in on this. At least he knows what hye's talking about, and has an appreciation for making good, quality space sims. He may not be id or Valve, but I'de wager a guess that he would at least be interested in this development and the various code projects (SCP, Ferrium etc).
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Why do People keep saying this!?
Originally posted by Alexander B.:
[QB] Originally posted by Dispose:
[qb] WHAT?!?!? ARGHHH!!!! MY MIND IS OVERLOADING WITH THE FACT THAT SOMEONE LIKES HIS BATTLECRUISER THINGAMABOB GAMES!! ARHHHHH!!! CALL AN AMBULANCE!!! [/qb]
What?
I did'nt say I liked them. Not that I disliked them either. I have'nt played the demo enough to give it any sort of "judgement". To be truthfull, I am not sure it would be a game for me, as I dont have that much time to invest in a game now. But it surely has a potential to be a great game to play (UC v2.x.x).
The rest is'nt a reply to the above poster.. but more of a reply to "the fans" that have recently appeared.
----
However, a lot of the bashing done seems to me to be from a bunch of immature s.o.bs who dont want anyone else 'on their territory' and least of all somebody they have "heard about from somebody else who read something on a web page who was probably true because they would have liked that... etc..." .
You call yourself "fans" of the Series? Well, I've got news for you, I have freespace 1 and 2, so that makes me a fan as well, and I'm looking forward to a new Freespace 3, as long as it is'nt a CDV title it will hopefully be a good game, and if its not, i'll be bashing it just as everyone else - AFTER HAVING PLAYED It.
What you "fans" are doing is bash something that has'nt even become a reality - since Derek does'nt own the IP for it (yet).
Some of 'you guys' from the "fan community" seem like a bunch of immature WHINERS. Yea, thats right, whine whine, and some cheese, and HAMSTER WOLF GREY RABBIT SAUSAGE!. You know what. If you were fans, you would have spent the time to write a official "letter" from your web page for the "freespace fans" wishing D.S good luck in his endavour, and offering to playtest, models, textures and whatnot, and anything else, instead of just saying "Oh, this sucks, I hate everything, *aaarrgh!*".
And if you DO have such a big problem with it - go tinker with the FS2 code. You've already done a lot of great work.
I cant believe how you are reacting.. whats wrong with you people?
And regarding the IP threat from Derek. That you are now going to use to portray him as a b**tard. Well, I saw the first posting in this thread, and there were no writings about "going after 'fans' making something for the game for free". But after a bunch of the immature whiners came in here, combined with the mass-threads on the HEL (or whatever) forum I can at least understand why he would wish to do something like that. Just to shut you the **ll up.
See, there is a difference between offering suggestions, perhaps writing about your concerns and hope he does it right, and Declaring FULL OUT WAR. A war will have casualties on both sides, and as you are well aware, those with the IP and the money are usually the ones who win in the US.
So in summary:
1. Stay on topic
2. Stop the whine
3. Dont write ALL CAPS POSTINGS
4. Try to be sane while writing
5. If youre going to attack Derek, can you at least do it in a PRIVATE MESSAGE - or even better, just write it on a note on your desk and throw it in the toilet, since I believe it would achieve as much... anything as long as us others dont have to read your b.s. [/QB]
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Originally posted by Rictor
Hell, get milo from Starshatter in on this.
Wow, thanks for placing your trust in me. I'm surprised and rather honored that you would even say something like that.
In reality though, I don't think I'm the right person to be creating FS3. In my opinion, the core gameplay of the Freespace series is based on the way the story weaves through the tightly scripted missions. I'm certainly not that good of a mission designer to create a game with a scripted campaign like the one in FS2. While I'd jump at the chance to work with Mike Kulas and the rest of the Volition team if they did a sequel, I would never try to create one on my own. I don't know where the story goes next anymore than you guys do.
My goal has been to create a game that sits alongside Freespace as a variation on a theme. A game with great combat, but using a dynamic campaign engine and a persistent order of battle to explore space warfare in a different way.
Anyway, flame on!
(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/Mehrunes/deaddeimos.jpg)
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Kazan, I don't think you can reason with these people
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Dear God, please no.
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First person to put a flying Coke-machine in FSO gets my undying gratitude.
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:nervous:
(http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/aotd/Turnsky/bang.jpg)
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Originally posted by an0n
First person to put a flying Coke-machine in FSO gets my undying gratitude.
Actually...
*fires up Lightwave*
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Finally, I could not believe what I read of your forums! Apparently one of the religious members there has taken issue with the agnostics and now they are debating doing a mod for F2 based upon The Passion of the Christ. Ladies and gentlemen of the AVF, these guys need serious help.
What is this? :wtf:
Did/Am I missing something
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Wow. All those years. All those sermons at Church. I thought it was all lies. But it's true.
Sucking dick really does cause brain-damage.
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Where is that from?
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An0n: Huh? I'm not catching you?
KT: http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005485;p=10
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well on the light of what I have posted on that thread. It will also be vindication twice over for you guys if the HLP developed Freespace will be better then the one Mr. Smart produces.
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Cabbie, with Derek Smart's track record, I'm thinking ANYTHING would be better than what he produces.
Look, Derek, if you're even reading this thread anymore (and if you're not, someone please post this at Avault).
Derek, I don't mean to flame you, but do you seriously expect such a dedicated community such as ours to go quietly into the night while you butcher our favorite game? I'm sorry about what you think about your work. I'm an artist as well, and although I'm not a programmer, I do do game work. But there is a fundamental difference between, say, me and you, or in fact, anyone in this community and you. We make games and mods to show off not only our skills, but also to make other people have fun. You do not. While you may think you do, your games, to most people that I've talked to at least, are not engineered towards fun. They are made to your personal tastes, and you damn all who disagree with you. Unfortunately, that is the majority of the gaming public. Why? Because your control systems are hard to learn? Partly. Is it cause your programs are buggy? A little, but not really that much, after all, most games are these days.
You know what the real reason is? Mostly because they're not fun. And guess what Freespace is? Pure, mindless fun.
And, excuse me, but isn't every game, or at least almost every game you've developed so far been freeform? Um...Freespace is all about the storyline. I'm pretty sure you're going to try and add a whole bunch of stuff to Freespace, like crew management, character selection, planetary landings, and what have you. Don't get me wrong, character creation would be a good addition. But You have a tendency to go overboard on everything, and forget why people play games: to have fun, not to see the fancy graphics and marvel at the vast concepts in the game.
Derek, don't trifle with this community. We are the last people who truly play Freespace 2, and guess what? We're the bulk of your gaming audience, and if you screw us over, and treat us with the same contempt that you treat your own fans, then guess what? You're out a lot of time and money, because we can completely ignore your game. After all, to us, anything that's not developed by [V] doesn't count as canon, and you're not [V], I'm sorry.
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Originally posted by jdjtcagle
An0n: Huh? I'm not catching you?
KT: http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005485;p=10
I meant "which thread is he refering to?"
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Errr, is that passion of the christ thing made up? (Wouldn't be surprised, that guy goes on about how we're nazis and uses nice keywords like "racist" and "al gore" throughout) I'm surprised I've never heard about it if it isn't. :wtf:
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Well, topic is closed oer there...
Sorry UT, I was on my way to posting
I want to know why he would make that up?
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Me either.
It sounds like something I would have posted in too if it were real...
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I was in the middle of a long post too.
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He made it up because he was running out of 'creative' things to insult us with :rolleyes:
Pathetic, really :doubt:
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I'm starting to get pissed off at OmegaBob.
Alexander B. seems to want graphic upgrades, would someone care to show them what SCP is all about ;) :devil:
milo :eek2: :yes:
Is there a wallpaper size version of that image? :drevil:
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There's a new thread, please pimp the SCP, and post my post (lol) :D
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Posted your post UT :)
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Gracias! :)
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he made it up???
I just e-mailed Volition about this!
lol...
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Originally posted by mc 101
he made it up???
I just e-mailed Volition about this!
lol...
About the Passion thing? :wtf:
Or Smart?
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FUCK!
what have you people done?
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Did I miss something again?
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Are you guys "banned?"
Cause I think I am :lol:
Yep, officially banned
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From AV? :lol:
I ain't banned yet.
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I am. I did nothing to warrant it either.
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Yep
I'm learning... :p
maybe I was kind of a jackanus... or the person who made up that crap about "The Passion" was a Admin :lol:
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*Deletes cookies*
Umm... I can still view the forums
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EDIT
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who the hell are you?
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Im quite eager to see what Setekh has to say about all this. He always has been one of the most level-headed of us :)
EDIT: :blah: whats that all about, bob?
EDIT2: Upon second look, calm down a little, FtW :)
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welcome to HLP FTW
:welcome:
I'm going to bed...
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Originally posted by Bobboau
who the hell are you?
Either he's a lurker, to whom I'd tell to calm down, lest you make us visibly look really bad, or he's a troll from Derek's posse.
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Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
Im quite eager to see what Setekh has to say about all this. He always has been one of the most level-headed of us :)
Thats true.
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Please don't run anyone off, KT...
We don't need this, since all those people at VA... err... VA us look real bad.
Most of us lost our temper today and need to make up for it
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Either he's a lurker, to whom I'd tell to calm down, lest you make us visibly look really bad, or he's a troll from Derek's posse.
I was talking about Derek Smart for gods sake!!!
I ****ing hate that guy!
I wasted my ****ing money on his Battlecruiser 2.0 6 years and i've wanted to beat his head in for years after that!!
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Wow i never thought my first post here would be about this. this is like everything we wanted (wich is a FS3) gone horibly wrong.
I live FS to much to see it go down the drain in such a bad fashion. I am suprised we havent heard any coment from V. I would REALY like to know what the dev team the made FS1 and 2 think about DSmart geting the license. Anyway. I say you Moders out there are doing a great job and keep it up. O and to tell you the truth i dont think people would lind DSmart working on FS3 if he wasing such a jerk all the time and to everyone. constantly talking about how great he is is just stupid. i will never buy one of his games even if it is FS3. the only people that can do FS3 is V.
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Originally posted by Bobboau
FUCK!
what have you people done?
Nobody knows about the specifics of the license but it's believed the SCP won't be affected directly.
Anyhow, most of the members from HLP were polite from what I could tell. I think that Derek Smart and the Avault admin who banned Thorn and others are being a bit overreactive.
Particularly Smart. He asked for input on the potential game, we supplied it. If he didn't want anyone to say anything that didn't agree with him, he shouldn't have posted the thing. I'm not really sure what Smart wanted to do with that thread.
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Originally posted by Free_The_WEED
I was talking about Derek Smart for gods sake!!!
I ****ing hate that guy!
I wasted my ****ing money on his Battlecruiser 2.0 6 years and i've wanted to beat his head in for years after that!!
Yes but I wouldn't run someone over for their game or for their ego. :blah:
There are better things in the world to hate.
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
Either he's a lurker, to whom I'd tell to calm down, lest you make us visibly look really bad, or he's a troll from Derek's posse.
I'm guessing #2, just ****ing great.
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Derek Smart CANNOT TOUCH THE SCP OR FERRIUM
The Source Code is Copyright Volition, Inc ------- NOT INTERPLAY
Any rights aquisition which he may engage in CANNOT TOUCH THE SCP OR FERRIUM -- He pretty much cannot touch us at all. He can only prevent us distributing anything on the origional disks -- other than the engine
He cannot touch us Bobboau, no need to kiss that arrogant fools ass.
Perhaps you should consult those of us who are experts in IP law before going psycho
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"um wow. This whole thing blew up really quickly"
Thats what i imagine Setekh saying.
Honestly guys, what can we do to stop this Smart guy? I think the more we fan the flames of this topic the more he will be interested in making the title just so we can all buy it to prove to ourselves it sucks.
Lets face it, FS3 if it ever gets made and released would sit on each and every one of our shelves even if it sucked. Why? This is what fans of games do! You cant explain it, you can only live it and know what im talking about!
I really hope FS3 doesnt get messed up....
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if we continue maintaining the FS universe, he can (theoreticly) fuck us up, and additionaly, I think there are some major over reactions going on here, everyone calm DOWN!
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THEY tell US that we run them off? Who banned everyone from a particular side from posting their feelings? I haven't seen any of that over here, let alone ANY responses from them in this forum whatsoever.
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Originally posted by jdjtcagle
Please don't run anyone off, KT...
We don't need this, since all those people at VA... err... VA us look real bad.
Most of us lost our temper today and need to make up for it
Right, well there's being angry that someone is going to screw over your favorite game, and then there's being irrationally angry to the point where it doesn't make our community (already accused of doing so on the topic) look worse. Especially from someone who just signed up.
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Originally posted by Bobboau
if we continue maintaining the FS universe, he can (theoreticly) fuck us up, and additionaly, I think there are some major over reactions going on here, everyone calm DOWN!
And how can they do that? We play with the code. We play with FS2. Not FS3.
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Wow, everyone went overboard on this. We got our token visit by Derek Smart. Yay. We've passed an important milestone. We've got people crawling out of the woodwork (And I really want to know what secret messaging system we've got installed in here; the FS legacy threat radar must have been sounding mightily to get 126 people in here at once) to do what, flame the least professional developer in all of gaming? I personally do not feel threatened by a man who boasts that he can beat anyone with his amazing results on an internet IQ test. You can't argue logic with someone like him, he's beyond logic of any kind. But I say let him come. He can't exactly damage the state of the community now, and who knows, something positive may come out of this.
I will say though that we have not handled the inter-community relations as well as I had hoped. I guess that was to be expected when the most avid, and unfortunately often overly-critical, members are the first to respond to something like this, but oh well. We're certainly are a defensive lot (did I see TopAce actually pimping FSO back there somewhere?) and, well, some toes got stepped on and we stepped back. I say lets ignore the threats and the lies and the idle jibberish and go about our normal business. Mr. Smart is gone, and I doubt he'll ever be back.
Will we see a FS3 from him? The possibility exists. Though from what I can make out in the incoherent babbel that was presented as a plan, I doubt he could even find a publisher for it. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it, and I doubt we ever will.
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Ok, so Derek Smart may buy the FS license. And a lot of people think that his previous games weren't very good. And he admits to having a big Alpha-male ego. And we all know that V really isn't going to make FS3. What exactly is the purpose of pissing him off? If you don't want his version of FS3, don't buy it.
What would stop a pissed-off Derek Smart from making sure he gets all the rights and trademarks and having his lawyers send the various FS sites a cease and desist order? Anybody here have the money to pay for a countersuit?
Buried in what he said was a truth - it's business. If he thinks he can create a new fan base and ignore the old one there's nothing we can do about it. Flaming him is just going to make the situation worse and end any possibility of our collective influence.
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So we should just sit by idly and ignore him while he drives the whole thing into the ground?
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we play with FS, to wich he may get ownership of the intelectual property of.
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no we should try seeing were it goes, before going ape****.
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he cannot stop us from playing, and he cannot stop ferrium or the SCP
you want to show who's better? Get your to work on the DirectX renderer and the render API abstraction for ferrium :P
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
So we should just sit by idly and ignore him while he drives the whole thing into the ground?
Beyond trying to offer calm, sensible advice what else can you do? You want to jump up and down a scream? It's not going to help. He's NOT going to react favorably to being flamed - anymore than you would. Unloosing the flamethrowers can only make the situation worse.
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I agree for the most part, bobbaou. A lot of the overtly negative things said early werent necessary, to be sure. I still think he can make a good FS3, its just the way he handled a bit of initial criticism that irks me. And the fact that he came to the point where he began making threats.
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CIA: He said Freespace 3 sir.
President: He did what!
CIA: Yes he said the forbidden words!
President: Time to reveal our little secret.
CIA: But that weapon hasn't been tested yet!
President: I think its time.
CIA: As you wish, turn the orbital satellite on and power the beam cannon.
Next day:
Anchorman: No one knows what happened to Mr. Smart last night sources say that Mr. Smart was abducted.
Farmer: I saws it from the skys ands it was huge and greens and it went on Mr. Smarts and I ran into the house with my cow and we hids in the bathroom.
Anchorman: We will have more for you soon as we get more information.
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He has not done a thing yet, please stop talking as if the end is near.
When the official word is in, then react. Besides even if he buys it and ruins it we still love FS2!
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Originally posted by Bobboau
no we should try seeing were it goes, before going ape****.
I agree. I sent an E-Mail mentioning that there are people in the FS community who want to see a sequel and do have experience in the industry and want to help out.
The reply I received was not very promising, mostly due to a post I made on the Nodewars forum that he objected to.
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I read the guys replies, and regardless of this guy's intentions, I cannot stand his attitude. People in the industry should be held to a higher standard and I can see why many folks hate Derek Smart. If he would stop ranting and respond to people who have honest opinions, maybe I could give him some respect.
As it is, I would hate to see such an immature individual make a Freespace game.
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Here's my POV(which is skewed most of the time anyway, but here goes)
Best Case: Mr. Smart is somehow able to cobble together UT2K4 graphics and sound, Good Music and as a hattrick, get the Original writers, ship designers, ect to sign on for 2 more besides FS3. We're all happy.
Worst Case: Mr. Smart blows it again and show the world how much he actually sucks. Again We're all happy.
I keep seeing a comic strip with people walking around talking about how they're looking forward to FS2 or Battlecruiser "Insert Sequel Title Here" and all of a sudden a shadow falls over them with a "Hey, everybody! Let me talk about how great I am and how much you suck!" and the the final panel has a charicature of DS with a head the size of Mars.
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I started out slightly skeptical...then he started ranting about how great His vision was going to be. That bothered me a little more. Then he came over to HLP and practically flamed the whole community in his first post...then he started making threats.
For someone with a big 'alpha male' ego, he seems to have a very thin skin. If he could get over that I think he'd be much more likely to gain people's support, I know he'd be much more likely to have mine.
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Is anybody still trying to buy the Freespace license, so I can donate money? :confused:
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see the other thread on this Free_The_weed
btw
:welcome:
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Thanks Kazan. :)
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Originally posted by Free_The_WEED
Is anybody still trying to buy the Freespace license, so I can donate money? :confused:
:nod:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,25177.0.html
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,25171.0.html
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uh.. guys, you know he's a troll right...?
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well, poop. i really don't know what to say. ummm... If it ain't V, it ain't FS3.
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uh.. guys, you know he's a troll right...?
What the **** are you talking about? I'm trying to donate some of my hard earned cash, so my favorite series can live on in glory, instead of ending up like trash in Derek Smarts peice of **** hands.
I don't understand why you are saying this. :confused:
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Originally posted by Bobboau
uh.. guys, you know he's a troll right...?
What, is he going to give our 'buy the rights' threads free publicity? :p
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Originally posted by Tiara
Ok, what are the PC magazines we can write to? :drevil:
He throws with mud, we can throw a ****load of it right in his face. We have enough of his stupidity in this thread to publish. :drevil:
I used to write reviews for a magazine. Suffice to say, this will make a very, VERY, VERY interesting rewiew, might just earn me $$ to donate to the effort if im lucky :)
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I say that becose
a) he starts posting in a troll like manner, something that someone over there would love to quote to make us look bad, not that we didn't do a very good job of that on our own.
b) I saw someone on that forum post something to the likes of "I see they've started a colection, don't they know that's stupid and doomed to failure" minutes before he posted his "were's the donation thread"
if I am wrong and you are not a troll you could help your case by editing your inital post.
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Originally posted by Carl
If it ain't V, it ain't FS3.
i'd agree with this.
not badmouthing the SCP (they've done a very good job so far)
and considering how loaded the derek smart topic is (quite frankly, i found the BC series downright confusing & boring to boot)
but it'd have to *be* made by Volition to be Freespace 3, and feel like it to..
it wouldn't be the same..
to all the guys at volition.... GET THE RIGHTS TO FREESPACE! :nod:
(if they haven't been snapped up already)
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What a ****ing jackass, you know where Im from if people talked to us like that we'd beat the tar out of them.
oh yeah and OmegaBob on that forum is the quintessential dousche bag and should be shot. Oh and if your from Philly, mr OmegaBob ( i know youll read this) ill be more than happy to drive an hour from my grandparents house to kick your ass.
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Originally posted by milo
Wow, thanks for placing your trust in me. I'm surprised and rather honored that you would even say something like that.
In reality though, I don't think I'm the right person to be creating FS3. In my opinion, the core gameplay of the Freespace series is based on the way the story weaves through the tightly scripted missions. I'm certainly not that good of a mission designer to create a game with a scripted campaign like the one in FS2. While I'd jump at the chance to work with Mike Kulas and the rest of the Volition team if they did a sequel, I would never try to create one on my own. I don't know where the story goes next anymore than you guys do.
My goal has been to create a game that sits alongside Freespace as a variation on a theme. A game with great combat, but using a dynamic campaign engine and a persistent order of battle to explore space warfare in a different way.
[/IMG]
I think that if the game is taken up by a professional developer, than the matter is mostly out of our hands. But, if it comes down to any sort of fan effort, you'de be an asset of inestimable value.
Considering that you basically made, completely by yourself from what I know, a game who's quality is very nearly on par with $20 million budget, AAA games, and a space sim to boot, Derek Smart, or indeed pretty much anyone here with the possible expection of a few programmers/artists, ain't got nothing on you.
Starshatter is original, fun to play, has graphics that rival more or less any space-sim in existance today, including Battlecruiser 3000 (or whatever the latest one is) and Freelancer, and is moddable in a way other games can only dream of. Game rights aren't worth much without a game, and if it comes to making an actual game, there are few people in the industry I would rather have as a consultant/programmer/advisor/well-wisher than you.
this all sounds like ass-kissing, but I do genuinly believe what I said.
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You know, I've come to regard Derek Smart as Kazan's evil stupid twin.
But I digress.....
Hmm..... People we can actually trust to make FS3......
Whatever happened to the IWar2 guys? :)
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Y'all need to stop acting like the NMA crowd. Granted, that won't change the fact that Derek is being a **** and, given his history, probably will continue to be, but still. It's annoying me, and it's not exactly gonna get you anywhere. A simple "Thanks, Derek, but we're doing fine on our own- since you're apparently a fellow fan who's going to an effort to revive the game, feel free to help out with Ferrium if you like." could have ended all this **** here and now, with none of these preposterous threats of lawsuitage and no real change of plans.
Still, better late than never. Be civil next time. It's hard, but honestly none of your flames were clever enough to compensate for the fact that, both here and at Avault, HLP ended up looking every bit the gaggle of ****cakes Derek's little sycophant cluster did, and until you come up with a few damned good ones stow 'em, or put 'em in a special hate thread or something. If anything ends up hinging on shoring up public sympathy (like raising cash to try and get the license), you'll be glad you passed on the coke machine reference.
Oh, yeah, and milo for President. Yeah.
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Wow...I leave HLP alone for ONE day and I come back to a 389 reply thread in 24 hours.
Well...hell I dont care who has it...if the game is decent and accomplishes my hopes for a Freespace 3, I'll bite.
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hell I went to work for four hours and found this when I checked it in class.
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okay, i'm personally awaiting to see what somebody from Volition has to say about it, either off or on the record, that is..
anyway to blow all this THQ's way?.. i mean, volition /is/ on their payroll.. ;)
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Originally posted by KT to Turnsky in AIM
You know, if we make a big enough **** about it, THQ might get wind of Smart getting a **** load of publicity with it and buy it out from under him.
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Originally posted by Bobboau
hell I went to work for four hours and found this when I checked it in class.
And I went to bed and found this when I woke up (first thing I do every morning: check HLP :D )
I can't say I like the news of Derek Smart possibly making FS3. I mean, when I heard Bethesda was going to make Fallout 3, I was happy. Why? Because Bethesda made Morrowind (a very good game) and they seem to have exactly the right attitude on making the game great.
I've never played any of Smart's games (tried a demo, didn't even work), but from the reviews I've read they really don't seem that great. And his attitude? Frankly, the worst of HLP is better.
Still, I'm rather optimistic about this. If Smart ever gets FS3 done, it might be great. The signs just aren't that good. I'll reserve mu judgement until I've playd the game.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
you'll be glad you passed on the coke machine reference.
Sorry to tell you... an0n already did that.
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I think a lot of people already did that. Myself included, albeit discreetly.
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I can't help but feel that there is somethng important that I'm missing on the subject of Coke machines. Its been brought up in every Smart discussion I've seen.
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Indeed. :confused:
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Originally posted by Rictor
I can't help but feel that there is somethng important that I'm missing on the subject of Coke machines. Its been brought up in every Smart discussion I've seen.
From what I understand, at some point, he assaulted a Coke machine.
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:wtf: :lol: :wtf: :lol:
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The boring version is here.
http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&selm=an_253943874
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Why am I not surprised.
....but, no. That would be too easy. I'll keep my smart-ass remarks to myself.
edit: based on Stryke's link, it actually sounds like the man had a point. Publishers are not nice guys, regardless of who you are.
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Smart beat the **** out of a Coke Machine for some reason or another. He probably thought it questioned his Ph.D.
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At least we wouldn't have to worry about memory leaks, I suppose.
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Well I am ashamed to say it but I actually said go for it derek on the AV forums.
I was unaware of his track record, and in general what a waste of life he is. And he gave me this impression entirely based on his responses.
I have been an avid fan of the FS universe for a long time, and sadly never even knew you guys were out here!
But im glad to say I can now correct this error, and although it means little, you have my complete support!
LONG LIVE HLP!
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Incidentially, you can download his failure previous to The Big Failure at HOTU. Knowledge is Strength. Know Your Enemy. Vaguely Fascistic Sounding Truism Here.
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Alright, I thread this entire thread and seen some off-forum opinions...after seeing Derek Smart's actions, I'm changing my opinion...It's gonna be a coooold cooold day when he gets that license and puts a leash on us if he keeps that attitude up.
I think I'm going to agree to the post two posts up from here that got posted while I was typing this 60 second reply. Long live HLP. :thepimp:
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Originally posted by Gpspagan
Well I am ashamed to say it but I actually said go for it derek on the AV forums.
I was unaware of his track record, and in general what a waste of life he is. And he gave me this impression entirely based on his responses.
I have been an avid fan of the FS universe for a long time, and sadly never even knew you guys were out here!
But im glad to say I can now correct this error, and although it means little, you have my complete support!
LONG LIVE HLP!
:welcome:
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Originally posted by Gpspagan
Well I am ashamed to say it but I actually said go for it derek on the AV forums.
I was unaware of his track record, and in general what a waste of life he is. And he gave me this impression entirely based on his responses.
I have been an avid fan of the FS universe for a long time, and sadly never even knew you guys were out here!
But im glad to say I can now correct this error, and although it means little, you have my complete support!
LONG LIVE HLP!
Hey welcome to the crowd, enjoy the scenery, watch out for shivans in the pipes, and so forth. :p
(http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/forums/images/welcome2hlpbb.gif)
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We need to add "Watch of the falsely qualified conquistadors" to the standard sig me thinks. :D
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ok enough of the BS let the man do the game :)
power up photon beam cannons ... commence plasma core incertion ... FIRE
:welcome:
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Originally posted by Gpspagan
Well I am ashamed to say it but I actually said go for it derek on the AV forums.
I was unaware of his track record, and in general what a waste of life he is. And he gave me this impression entirely based on his responses.
I have been an avid fan of the FS universe for a long time, and sadly never even knew you guys were out here!
But im glad to say I can now correct this error, and although it means little, you have my complete support!
LONG LIVE HLP!
One of the odd side effects of this announcement is that I suspect they'll be a fair bit of renewed interest in Freespace.
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Originally posted by karajorma
One of the odd side effects of this announcement is that I suspect they'll be a fair bit of renewed interest in Freespace.
Dear sweet lord
http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=50097
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Hmm... I guess i'm late but still...
This thing started in a very bad way, i'm used with unresponsive developers, but this one seems a step ahead of this, and doesn't really sound professional...
The problem is that from a business standpoint he's bloody right...
Once he will get the IP (personally i have no emnity with him), he will be able to do pretty much whatever he wants...
Just hope that after this unpleasant discussion he doesn't take fishy measures...
He does have IP potentially, while your work (i would say our, but not before having published here some work of mine) has no real protection, so watch out for eventual rip-off as we are on a weak side from a legal standpoint...
Let's face it... What we dreamed was to see SCP extended, with the professional guys (no disrespect meant to the great work done here) doing the bulk of the work, while the community gave the right direction... All of course with [V] blessing...
Unfortunately we've got here a potential developer with a less than ideal reputation and a potentially negative aptitude towards feedback from this community.
So, what are the possible scenarios?
1) DS fails to acquire the rights for the FS franchise or renounces to get it, thus leaving the situation unchanged
2) DS develops the game and somehow it meets fan expectations.
This leaves some question marks about how mod friendly it would be (any info on previous titles?)
3) DS develops it and it does not meet expectations, but heavy marketing makes the game sell, ruining in the process the FS franchise...
4) Both development and marketing fails... Little damage to the franchise is done and SCP carries along...
5) Another company gets the rights... In this case we should be prepared to a better start, whoever the developer is...
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I don't know who this guy is and neither his track record but anyone who posts in their sig that they have a Ph.D. is attention starved! and plus I'd rather see a 'large corporate entity' with a successful history and a more casual attitude towards fans then this guy.
Originally posted by Gpspagan
I have been an avid fan of the FS universe for a long time, and sadly never even knew you guys were out here!
Thats says a lot about GS and how HLP is out there. :eek2:
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Did anyone notice this post on that Blues News thread I linked above;
" It's a shame that all of you are avoiding answering the question. All you seem to be able to do is toss the usual insults without saying anything of any value. So I would remind you again of the question. WOULD YOU PURCHASE FREESPACE 3.
I do not see anyone else stepping up to purchase the code, so it is most likely that the game would VANISH and NO ONE would play it. Is this what you fools want? Undoubtedly this would be a popular game and despite what any of you say you ARE the minority. Don't forget that.
As for the mods, of course they HAVE NO RIGHT to exist and cut from the copyright holders profits. No business would succeed that way.
So yet again I ask the question. Would you buy Freespace 3? YES OR NO"
I think this shows Mr. Smart egotism right there - he's scared of modders, not because they might cost him money, but because they might show him up.
Originally posted by Xelion
I don't know who this guy is and neither his track record but anyone who posts in their sig that they have a Ph.D. is attention starved! and plus I'd rather see a 'large corporate entity' with a successful history and a more casual attitude towards fans then this guy.
Allegedly, it's not even a real Phd - it's one from a, how shall we say, 'prestigious non-acreddited university'. At least that's what I've read.
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http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=39309975&m=185006515631
I mentioned it to a friend and passed on relevant URLs, and hopefully something substantive will happen there.
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Well, at least people know there's an FS community now, i guess.
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Well, since it seems we have to play a business game...
What about seriously looking for other developers?
If one (albeit not highly reputed) has seen value in the brand others would...
Just let's avoid EA and Strategy First...
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Originally posted by aldo_14
As for the mods, of course they HAVE NO RIGHT to exist and cut from the copyright holders profits. No business would succeed that way.
He actually said that our mods have no right to exist? How in the hell does this guy maintain any kind of support for his games? Minimal as it is, it does exist, though god only knows how.
And reading some of these links, it seems people are laughing at him putting atmospheric missions in... err... :nervous:
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wait a sec some of the blue's news guys have some evedence that this isn't real.
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
He actually said that our mods have no right to exist? How in the hell does this guy maintain any kind of support for his games? Minimal as it is, it does exist, though god only knows how.
He doesn't. Apparently, he bans people from his forum who post a technical problem without having their system specs as their signature.... he appears to have a deep loathing & contempt for any customer who doesn't bow down & worship him.
I get the distinct impression that he only makes games for himself - i.e. he doesn't really care if people like his games, so long as he gets the money to do so. Certainly he takes a highly unprofessional attitude towards customer support, and frequently stoops to the lowest common denominator.
I mean, i was trying to be polite & soforth on the AV thread and this one, but you saw the response that got.
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Originally posted by Bobboau
wait a sec some of the blue's news guys have some evedence that this isn't real.
?
explain
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Quoting Hollowguy here:
Real Name Derek Smart [3000AD]
Nickname None given.
Email Concealed by request.
ICQ 158435
Description None given.
Homepage http://www.3000ad.com
Signed On Jul 14 2004, 03:42
Total Posts 3 (Bearcub)
He posted here a few days ago as DSmart...why would he need a new name? (other than he forgot the login information - considering he's defending himself on 12,000 game sites currently)
Really doesn't matter though...deserves whatever comes his way. Maybe he hired one of his ignorant suckers fans to fight for his honor since he has his hands full elsewhere. (Elsewhere being his forum where he has a full time job in belittling customers)
Wondering if Ray has this sign off copywritten,
HG
Linkie: http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=50097&boardid=1&id=&view=flatnew&start=20
Edit: Someone want to throw out links to HLP/SCP/buy-the-rights funds and whatnot?
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Yeah but according to Styxx's earlier post the e-mail address he gave is actually one at 3000ad.com
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Quoting Hollowguy here:
Linkie: http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=50097&boardid=1&id=&view=flatnew&start=20
Edit: Someone want to throw out links to HLP/SCP/buy-the-rights funds and whatnot?
I dunno - but he's posted on his own forum http://www.3000ad.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=000352
(view at own peril)
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Well that's the big piece of evidence the guy gave.
While my mind is chugging away, if that were the case, couldn't this guy be sued for identity theft?
That'd be incredibly ironic....
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Well, given Mr. Smarts ramapant egotism, I suspect he wanted everyone to see the glory of his full name. Either that, or he didn't want to look an idiot after declaring he would never visit the forums again (under the name dsmart).
Of course, if it is him at Blues News, it also means he's given his ICQ number....... which is pretty much asking for trouble.
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Always wanted to know why they blew up a star...*Hint* *Hint*
It just makes me sad to see people writing stuff like this, because if they put their mind to it they could make a mod and make up their own answer.
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I hope that Mr. Smart would give up on the idea of developing FS3 just for the sole basis that it will save him a lot of grief in the end...
whatever happens, this will be going down in the history of gaming...in flames :(
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....
Interesting read, cost me one and a half hours at least....
Seriously, wait and see for now. I'll donate to a fund to buy the rights. Someone who is of legal age in the states (makes signing docs a ****lot easier) should contact :I: for a pricequote. Then we'll see.
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We cannot seriously think of beating him on a money game, it's useless...
Spend money and energy towards finding a better developer and you'll get some results..
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You know what this proves?
We need to pimp the scp more.
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I'm sure we all agree on that ;)
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Originally posted by 01010
Heh, tell Something Awful...
Already posted. The reflections are... well, goonish. You know how passionate SA readers are of their favourite games.
I actually came into this thread with sole purpose of posting DEREK SMART over and over until he would appear, but that arrogant abortion of a man is apparently just googling himself instead of trying to focus how to make games and not drink gallons of pus-mixed gorilla semen. I ****ing hate that little piece of ****.
He has no idea that his games are crappy. His ego is roughly of the size of Hinderburg and as easily inflammable. He can not admit that he might make a mistake. He pays no attention to people WHO ACTUALLY ARE THE ONE TO PLAY THE GAME, good ****ing riddance.
DEREK SMART, PH.D: "You don't know how games are made and sold, therefore you can't just appreciate the game."
Gamer: "Hey dude, I can't even play your game, it crashes."
DEREK SMART DEREK SMART DEREK SMART: "You are such a little sniveling piece of ****."
Gamer: "Uh, what's your problem? I kinda wanted to play a good game, and so long all I've seen has been donkeys buggering each other when the game happens not to crash in 5 seconds. Oh, and how do I invert mouse?."
THE REAL DEREK SMART: "Go **** yourself. BANNED"
(http://img9.exs.cx/img9/9306/DEREKSMART.jpg),
note the text in the badge.
:hopping:
[/end rant, which was of course just me. ME. I don't even work with SCP and only thing I do round here is post some retarded MS Paints. DEREK SMART, don't use me as an example how rotten we are. :( ]
Seriously, though, this is bad news. Thank god he won't bastardize the universes, but geez. FS is about dogfights, not controlling GTD DEREK SMART Aquitane II [object error].
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That picture worries me (and screams buggery), take it away :nervous:
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Originally posted by vyper
That picture worries me (and screams buggery), take it away :nervous:
BUT I LOVE YOU
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Originally posted by vyper
You know what this proves?
We need to pimp the scp more.
Yes. what surprises me are that their are so many other fansites out there that we haven't (well, at least that some of us havent) heard of.
We need to spread out more and assimiliate. ;7 :drevil:
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Well, at least people know there's an FS community now, i guess.
HLP is not THAT hidden.
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Originally posted by TopAce
HLP is not THAT hidden.
i wouldn't be too sure about that.........
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HLP is reasonably low-key. To correct some stuff I believe was posted over at AV, we do not have 5000 members, but closer to 2000 from the registered member list - but really it's a fraction of that, perhaps 600, who are active members.
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I honestly don't see Fs3 coming in a good way unless [V] is making it, they have the original storyline no matter what way it happens its the way it was meant to be.
TopAce HLP is more hidden then people are aware of, out of the majority of search engines HLP isn't registered. It needs more big time PIMPING and advertising across the net.
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*see's smoke rising over HLP HQ...get's closer*
damn...I'm away for 8 hours and all hell breaks lose with $hit flying mile high.
And now I've spent hours reading parallel through this thread and the one at AVault
....and after reading through this: http://www.werewolves.org/~follies/ I wouldn't take him too seriously.
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IF anybody wants to make FS3, only [V] or us could make it. I don't want this guy to touch my FS and of course not SCP:mad:
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For reference, HLP is on the third page of results for a google search for 'Freespace'. (http://www.google.com/search?q=freespace&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&start=20&sa=N)
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Hmm, there is suddenly a strange influx on newbees...
It could be good or bad depending on the general behaviour...
Anyways, welcome to HLP Neo Hacker, flametrowers are under the seats, and if you see a shivan into the air ducts it's only Carl, give him your meal and you'll be fine.
Someone shoot the banner please...
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Originally posted by Neo Hacker
IF anybody wants to make FS3, only [V] or us could make it. I don't want this guy to touch my FS and of course not SCP:mad:
welcome, welcome.. and as Zarax said, and when near carl, try not to make sudden movements, or you might loose a hand;)
:welcome:
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Hi, Neo Hacker. Welcome to HLP. :)
Anyway, I would still like to stand for the idea that Derek is well-intentioned and that good can come of this - perhaps not in just the way that we expected it.
:welcome:
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What the hell is a Ph.D? I suppose some sort of degree, but...
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Originally posted by Zarax
Hmm, there is suddenly a strange influx on newbees...
It could be good or bad depending on the general behaviour...
Anyways, welcome to HLP Neo Hacker, flametrowers are under the seats, and if you see a shivan into the air ducts it's only Carl, give him your meal and you'll be fine.
Someone shoot the banner please...
hey I'm not a newb...:o
if anybody remember Alpha Leader from VBB, well it's me :)
Long time no see. :)
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It's an abbreviation of the Latin for 'Doctor of Philosophy'.
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Sorry Neo Hacker, i didn't knew that... I'm a VBB survivor too... Just jumped in around a month before it's death...
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Whoa, Alpha Leader! Dude! You know, you have an old login here. I'll reset the password and PM it to your "Neo Hacker" profile so you can still use it. :)
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Originally posted by Setekh
Whoa, Alpha Leader! Dude! You know, you have an old login here. I'll reset the password and PM it to your "Neo Hacker" profile so you can still use it. :)
Glad to see you Setekh...finally I've write your username without any mistakes:D
cool! thanks for resetting my password...long time since I've been here!
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I believe Mr. Smart here has awoken something he shouldn't have (http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/hlp/file_show.php?fil=178)
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Originally posted by Nico
What the hell is a Ph.D? I suppose some sort of degree, but...
Well, it's a doctorate really. I can't remember the exact meaning, but it lasts about 3 years after receiving a degree, and requires a dissertation based upon academic research.
I actually got offered a funded Phd in Biometrics, but I turned it down because of the 3 year length.
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right...... I go away for a week and everyone gets delusions of grandeur. And boy is this grand.
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Originally posted by Singh
I believe Mr. Smart here has awoken something he shouldn't have (http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/hlp/file_show.php?fil=178)
:lol:
This was not the original purpose of the render at time of publishing. :D
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Now I'm back on my username :) Thx Setekh!
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Originally posted by Setekh
:lol:
This was not the original purpose of the render at time of publishing. :D
Yeah, but suits the occasion now, dont ya agree? :p
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Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
First Post
Gents, some of the posts in this thread, are EXACTLY the reason why game developers AND publishers hardly pay attention to a game's fanbase.
www.jmsnews.com
This is how an executive producer with an ego (whose products fanbase probably is at least 10 times larger than Battlecruiser's) communicates with his fans.
Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
Most people who bandy the word ego around, have to frigging clue WHAT it even means. The word itself has just been passed down from one uninformed and ignorant generation to the next. Next time you get the chance, find out what the word really means and you will immediately see how out of place and out of context it is as is popularly used. Yes, I have an ego. Deal with it. I don't have a problem with it. So why should I care what a bunch of people think?
Ego means I in latin. Thank you.
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Cogito Ergo Sum
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Such an irrespectful behaviour with fans :mad:
As the code has been released, is it possible for someone buying the licence to "block" the open-source development? this would mean that "retroactively" you could "close the source" that you opened.
I'm poor in laws and average in english but I really wonder if this is possible.
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No, FS2 source belongs to Volition, not to Interplay.
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Originally posted by DW-Florian
Such an irrespectful behaviour with fans :mad:
As the code has been released, is it possible for someone buying the licence to "block" the open-source development? this would mean that "retroactively" you could "close the source" that you opened.
I'm poor in laws and average in english but I really wonder if this is possible.
No, i don't think so. The code, I think, is the IPR of the developers - not Interplay. Same way as you could license the doom3 engine and it still wouldn't allow you to sell a game called 'Doom 4', etc, I think.
The only gray area could be hardcoded references to Freespace 'brand names', i.e. the Shivans & vasudans.
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However, FS players are not kids stuck with theyr playstations. Scorn at the FS community will not help this new-title-wannabe to grow.
I can imagine the sum of work involved in FS:SCP, i use it, i love it, i praise it, i need my daily injection of FS2Net.
It can't be erased like chalk drawings, even by a PhD-designer-who-knows-so-well-the-game-industry-and-who-does-not-need-fans.
Just remember who buy games, and who influence the game ratings....
Last but not least :
Count the [V] made missions.
Count the fan-made missions & campains.
Who designed most ?
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OK, so who's gonna make a huge DEREK SMART model which has a huge blast radius, so we can all blast him with Helioses and Kaysers?
I mean, what could be funnier in multiplay?
"Your mission is to lead an Ursa assault on DEREK SMART."
Command: "Derek Smart is going down! Derek Smart is going down! All pilots, beware of the shockwave... I'm getting huge readings!"
Setekh: ZOMG LOL
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well, we can only hope, neh?..
but what we don't need are people flying off the handle at this, and not going nuts at derek smart, it's just feeding his overinflated ego, just smite him with calm logic, and the fact that the fans that he chastizes so much, have done far better than he'd ever be able to do.. and with just kudos and appreciation to be paid with.
in short, Derek Smart's an ass, and he should take a look over here, if he wants to see what the real men can do.
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I'm already working on a Coke Machine in Lightwave.
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In the end, we don't need FS3. We can even safely ignore any any of Mr. Smart's efforts. The current Community is alive and well, and will survive should FS3 succeed or fail.
With the SCP and the Ferrium Project, we will have plenty to keep us going for a long while yet.
Let Mr. Smart take the license if he wishes. We'll show him that what we can do here will be far superior than anything he can brew up.
If his previous record continues to be an accurate measure of his abilities, then we have nothing to fear.
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I'm sure this community can continue just fine if Derek Smart released FS3. The only thing I'm worried about is that it will suck, soil the reputation of the FS series, and give us an influx of idiot noobs who keep whining about cheats, how good they are, bugs, etc. You know the steryotype.
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Welcome to HLP, DW-Florian. :)
:welcome:
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You know, as soon as this large concentration of the word "Freespace" and the name "Derek Smart" gets picked up by Google, he'll be right over here.
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Actiontrip has a news item also, check it out. The sentiments there seem to be in line with what we're seeing pretty much everywhere.
http://www.actiontrip.com/rei/comments_news.phtml?id=071604_2
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Originally posted by IPAndrews
You know, as soon as this large concentration of the word "Freespace" and the name "Derek Smart" gets picked up by Google, he'll be right over here.
Actually, he's already been to HLP, and after a blazing reception, he declared that he would no longer post in the forums. :D
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Originally posted by kv1at3485
Actually, he's already been to HLP, and after a blazing reception, he declared that he would no longer post in the forums. :D
Really!? Bet that came as a surprise to all involved.
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Originally posted by IPAndrews
Really!? Bet that came as a surprise to all involved.
Yeah, we only had to say his name 3 times and whoaf!.
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where?
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That's even quicker than the Candy man.
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Just hope his cash is not so quick...
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Let him waste his cash. He won't have anything to show for it.
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Originally posted by IPAndrews
That's even quicker than the Candy man.
I think his ego has actually evolved to a state where it is fully seperate from his physical body, and thus is free to travel the internet at will.
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I just relised that this guy makes his residence in Florida where I live. Im moving..... or maybe I'll do something else :drevil:
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Please, anthrax his house or something before you move... :p
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No, just buy him a trip to visit Valve ;)
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Oh hell i am gone for 24 hours and i miss what is probably the most important discussion for FS universe future
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Here's a summary:
karajorma: check it out, Derek Smart says he's going to develop Freespace 3.
everyone: oh sweet merciful crap, no!
Derek Smart: Your opinions are worthless, you're all weak. I'm an alpha male, a born leader, so I'm not going to ask a few meesly fans for their opinions. I'm a very, very succesful person.
everyone: Whats your problem Smart? We all want to see Freespace 3, but not if your name is attached to it.
Derek Smart: Better watch your tone when speaking to me. I have a team of crack lawyers on speed-dial. Mods have no right to exist, neither does Ferrium or the SCP. If I get the licesnse, and I'll see to it that I do, there's gonna be legal trouble flying your way.
eveyone: thats it, inform everyone you can about this. Blues News, Penny Arcade, Slashdot - everyone. He's not getting away with this.
everyone: we need to set up some sort of fund, to maybe buy the rights from Interplay. That, or get another developer/publisher to buy it, anyone but Smart.
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It's not really an important discussion. I would be supremely surprised if he listened to anything we have to say. Best leave him to it and keep out of his way. That way he's more likely to leave this community and it's projects alone.
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We are progressing quite nicely through the three stages:
1) Denial
No! He can't be doing it!
2) Anger
Blast! We must make sure he doesn't!
3) Acceptence
We laugh at his futile efforts! Bwahahahaha!
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Agreed. But we have to be careful, as it only takes his name showing up three times for him to magically appear.
Edit: ok, I can't keep up. And I'm on broadband.
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Drek-Queen Smart-ass, Drek-Queen Smart-ass, Drek-Queen Smart-ass.
What? :p
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Originally posted by kv1at3485
We are progressing quite nicely through the three stages:
I came late on in this discussion and thus start at stage three by default.
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Originally posted by Turnsky
where?
Seriously? About a dozen pages back.
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Personally, I'm torn between the hilarity of DS suing Kazan (I'd pay money to see THAT on Judge Judy) and the real "Unholy Alliance" of those two working together. They'd either get along famously or be at each other's throats in about 0.00000000007 seconds.
We haven't begun to even get to the real depths of horror, kids.
DEREK SMART AND KAZAN PRESENT: SOME GAME THAT'S NOT FREESPACE 3: OR SOMETHING, WE DIDN'T ACTUALLY FINISH IT BEFORE GOING AND PLAYING WITH SOMETHING SHINY.
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Hmm i wonder if this drama is actually news worthy in slashdot? That would really help the cause :)
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Originally posted by Tiara
Please, anthrax his house or something before you move... :p
It shouldn't take me long to get there since he lives in Ft. Lauderdale and I live in Port Charlotte so its only about a few hours away. :D
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Originally posted by Alphakiller
...
Man, I appreciate you trying to inject some humour into this, but I seriously encourage you to edit your post and delete that. We've got enough discontent flying around, and the situation was just calming down.
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Originally posted by Rictor
Derek Smart: Better watch your tone when speaking to me. I have a team of crack lawyers on speed-dial. Mods have no right to exist, neither does Ferrium or the SCP. If I get the licesnse, and I'll see to it that I do, there's gonna be legal trouble flying your way.
Something just hit me: does smart actually know about the existence of Counterstrike?
Imagine if Valve had said no to the original Counterstrike mod... They'd be a couple of million dollars poorer now.
Allowing free mods = allowing talent to flourish and extra cash for the creator of the game due to increased sales.
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Originally posted by Setekh
Man, I appreciate you trying to inject some humour into this, but I seriously encourage you to edit your post and delete that. We've got enough discontent flying around, and the situation was just calming down.
Something tells me that this is the calm before the storm...
Oh, and welcome to page 21 (If you use 20 posts a page that is...)
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The storm was yesterday. This thread would still be burning if Smart continued to post here. It will take some days until thing cget completely calm, and two or three weeks until this thread sink to the second page, and from there, it sinks down into forgetting.
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If this is the calm, I don't want to see the storm. I don't think I could keep up, I only have two arms and two eyes you know. Yesterday, posts were going at a rate of like 3/minute, it was kind of tiring :p :p
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Proof he can learn from past mistakes.
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Well, if all else fails we could mail this guy...
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/blee/default.asp
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I dont know, this thread, or the subject at least, is probably going to lurk here for a loooong time to come if a certain someone gets some certain rights...
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A short discussion on IRC with a friend of mine.
Note: I'm not bashing Smart here, this is just the opinion of an individual whom I am acquainted with.
DoesNotExist> ...so? Most probably, it's going to take the storyline in an entirely new direction, using only the surface elements of the original plotline.
DoesNotExist> I mean, new games tend to do that.
NekoUni> he can't take it in a new direction, Freespace 2 was like one big cliffhanger
DoesNotExist> Like hell it can't.
DoesNotExist> There've been greater travesties in the computer game market, man.
DoesNotExist> I mean, note the lack of Arcanum 2.
NekoUni> yeah but Freespace 2 is like, my favorite game of all time, I dun want to see it trashed
NekoUni> I think this guy might do alright
DoesNotExist> It isn't going to be trashed. Freespace 3 will just most probably add very little to it.
DoesNotExist> Not familiar with the name, though. Derek Smart - he big?
NekoUni> this is even if he gets the liscense though
NekoUni> he made some other space sims I never even heard of
DoesNotExist> Toss out a few names.
NekoUni> people seem to like him.. I think on HLP, Steak said he wasn't anything special
NekoUni> well, lemme google it
DoesNotExist> ...wait, he made "Battlecruiser"?
DoesNotExist> Uni, you're screwed.
NekoUni> he made UC
NekoUni> which I never played
NekoUni> well how long ago was battlecruiser?
NekoUni> I never heard of it
DoesNotExist> Battlecruiser was one of the crappiest, crappiest games ever made, ever.
NekoUni> why?
DoesNotExist> PC Gamer gave it a 2% back when PC Gamer was actually reputable.
NekoUni> someone says it had a large learning curve
DoesNotExist> Ludicrously buggy.
DoesNotExist> Not really fun.
NekoUni> which battlecruiser did you play?
NekoUni> he says there were two generations
DoesNotExist> I believe that is Derek Smartese for "I released a ton of patches and put it out as a new game"
I then posted various parts of an interview with Mr Smart.
DoesNotExist> Well.
DoesNotExist> Let's just say this: "Something Awful" reviewed Universal Combat.
That was pretty much the end of the discussion right there..
NekoUni> but he's not exactly making a whole game from scratch here
NekoUni> he has limits
DoesNotExist> Yeah. Well, good luck.
NekoUni> XP
NekoUni> we'll see
DoesNotExist> Derek Smart also threatened to sue a company who gave his games a bad review!
Okay, that's where the convo REALLY ended.
Also: I haven't read the full thread yet.. better get crackin.
Also also: It was Ice, not Steak who said that.
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Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80
Something just hit me: does smart actually know about the existence of Counterstrike?
Imagine if Valve had said no to the original Counterstrike mod... They'd be a couple of million dollars poorer now.
Allowing free mods = allowing talent to flourish and extra cash for the creator of the game due to increased sales.
If you made mods, that would imply Derek Smart had not made TEH ULTIMATT GAME EVER! and that it did not have EVERYTHING YOU WILL EVER NEED IN A GAME AND IF YOU DONNOT AGREE YOU R A F00L!
Seriously, I think he considers it an insult if anyone want's to change 'his' designs or games. Possibly has a severe lack of confidence in his own ability, leading to arrogance in order to compensate.
NB: the SomethingAwful review of UC - http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2010 - and the legal action threat letter - http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2010&p=2
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Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
How can I forget the group of people who couldn't make Freespace2 a retail success worthy of its effort? Do you REALLY want to go there?
Lack of proper marketing is what made FS2 less of a success than it should have been. You, as an expierenced game dev, should know that.
Unless there's some sort of insider's secret the world doesn't know.
Originally posted by an0n
Styxx, honey, check Derek's IP.
I wanna make sure it's not just Rictor being a tool.
The IP resolves to Miami, Florida. Or thereabouts. Close enough to the stated Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
Hmm, I grew up Ft. Lauderdale.
Gamespy forums have the news: http://www.forumplanet.com/gamespy/topic.asp?fid=1422&tid=1421939
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Florida. Gotcha.
That was one of the 3 I'd narrowed it down to.
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Apparently, Derek has just posted his 'last' message.
Originally posted by Derek Smart [3000AD]:
Last night when I retired for the evening, it was with mixed feelings. The flaming didn't bother me much - like someone said, I'm pure carbon.
So this morning, it came as no surprise to me that my original poll thread (http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005485) was locked and a bunch of people (mostly from HLP) were banned and/or warned.
What bothered me was the vitriol, disrespect, rudeness that was perpetrated by the vast majority of the HLP community. I got PMs and emails from AVault regulars, regulars from my forums, people from around the world (some I didn't even know) and no less than THREE leading industry game devs and some media people. Those emails were pretty much on par with what one - in a sane world - would come to expect from a rational free thinking person.
The general consensus is this. If you DO get the license, give it your best shot and don't make it another Battlecruiser game. But no matter how it turns out - like EVERY game - you're going to still find a bunch of people who are going to be pissed about it.
Game development is not fun anymore and most of us only doing because it is our career. Our lot even.
As a faithful fan of the Freespace series and as a game developer with nothing but the highest respect for the Volition devs, it would be foolhardy and disrespectful of me to make a Freespace game that is a reflection of my own games. At the end of this post, I will quote all my posts on this matter, so that they are all in the same place for those who are having a hard time keeping up with this fiasco.
Gaming is my passion. EVERY publisher I have EVER worked with - including Dreamcatcher - will tell you the same thing. I am passionate about my work. I don't take it lightly. And the financial gain takes a backseat to my desire for staying true to my vision.
Every interview (http://www.3000ad.com/press), every review, every profile (http://www.3000ad.com/press/ds_interview_cgw0401.jpg) you read about me, point to the same thing, I'm not easily rattled and when I set my mind to something, I just do it; regardless of the consequences. I live by my dreams and unlike most, I am one of very few people who actually DO get to realize their dreams - especially as it relates to this rapidly degenerating game industry that is more about the bottomline than about delivering a worthy game.
Many, many indie devs and studios have gone out of business. Some were bought out (which is merely a stay of execution), then gutted and the talent thrown like chaff to the wind. Volition brought us the likes of Freespace and Freespace2. Make no mistake about it, Freespace2 was a retail failure. Independence War begat IW2:EoC. Another retail failure. Both Volition and Particle Systems, once great studio names, are merely figments of our imagination and the only ties to these once great teams (they're still great no doubt, not just in our space-sim framework) we have is what lives on in their work.
Nobody is going to fund and develop a game in a FAILED franchise. Yes, like most, the Freespace2 was a retail failure.
The same can be said for IWar and many others. David Braben has been making Elite4 for almost a decade I think. And up to the recent issue of PC Gamer UK was literally and clearly taking potshots at the Egosoft guys over their cloning of his Elite series while bringing nothing new to the table.
The XWing series seemingly dies with XvTF. And in between, there have been many other retail failures in the space sim genre.
Listen to me folks. Publishers don't fund the development of games from the goodness of their heart or for the love of the game. They do it for money. The business of game development is big business. To this end, any corporation that gets their hands on the Freespace license, is going to get it for cheap because that is the ONLY way they are even going to think of acquiring it. And if/when they do get it, as we have seen in the past when most franchise properties change hands, there is a very good chance that it will end up being a dismal failure and outside the scope of the franchise.
NO publisher who picks up the Freespace license, is going to be doing it because a bunch of disgruntled, disorganized and rude fanboys want them to. Nor are they going to give two farking Farthings what YOU think. Sure - at the very least - they'll assign some poor sap, clearly set up to fail - to be the good community relations face. This is the same poor sap who is going to be feeding the corporate crap, right up to the point where you get to be told that, hey, its only on the console - maybe we'll do the PC later. Or hey, no cut-scenes. Or hey, no joystick controls. Or whatever.
I am a small indie dev. Sure, my games are not massive sellers, nor are they retail popular when compared to other properties. But there is a reason why I am still in business and why I keep doing them. The reason is simple. I love what I do. I have a dedicated team who share my vision. I have a highly dedicated fanbase who I know I can rely on every few years to be there when I need them most. Because at the end of the day, when it all comes down to it, any dev worth his salt, can develop a game, stick it in a box and get some poor sod to buy it.
My games are consistent money makers. Sure, I make less money than the publishers, but I make enough to justify my time and effort spent. My guys are not paid according to industry standards, but there is a reason its the same crew game after game. That reason being that we all share a common passion and as long as I stick within my budget and vision, everyone gets paid, I don't have cost overrun worries, I don't have investors breathing down my back etc.
For e.g. a publisher who spends money to develop and market a game, would likely need to sell 10x as many units to break even than I would. For a self-funded indie dev, I can hang my hat on a 100K units and call it a day, while my counterparts are having hernias trying to reach 250K to break even.
In the hands of a mainstream publisher, a game like a Freespace sequel will - make NO mistake about this - cost upwards of $2-3m and 18 months to develop. At those numbers and given the sales of mainstream space sims, is it a wonder that there are no mainstream space sims outside of the niche series such as mine and the X series?
Everyone is asking for a game that is true to the Freespace series. Well, hey, why make a clone of Freespace2 when you already have Freespace2 on your shelf? There are lots of Freespace type games that have come and gone without fanfare. For e.g. our Russian friends are developing Starwolves - a game you'll probably never get to hear about unless you know someone who knows someone who has played it.
The only way this Freespace sequel is going to get made, is if Interplay funds its development or sells the license - for cheap - to another publisher who can fund its development. And from where I am sitting, WHY would ANY publisher want to purchase the rights to a - for all intent and purposes - failed license? Especially when they can take that same money and develop a new game based on the spirit that was Freespace? You think they care if the fanboys think its just a Freespace clone? No, they don't.
At the end of the day, only TWO things form the cornerstone of this [game] industry. Credibility and money. While some would regard suing publishers as career suicide, I do it in the interests of that which I have created, that which I OWN and because when I sign a contract, I STICK to it and fully expect the other party to do the same. I'm nobody's b*tch. Before I sued Dreamcatcher (over the UC fiasco) I already had a substantial funding sitting in an account waiting to be spent. Luckily, I only get to spend barely half of it. THAT money could have been spent on my company, my games or whatever. Anyone can sign a piece of paper. Getting them to abide by that piece of paper is clearly another matter. So naturally, you have to do what you have to do, if you can. Developers don't sue publishers. And for good reason. I'm already the industry bad boy and the last time I worried about that, it was 1996 and I was in my car driving down from Latrobe, PA after telling Take Two I was going home and planned on suing them. I wasn't bluffing.
My POINT is that I have done/said a lot of things which most normal and sane people wouldn't do/say. There is nothing normal about me and even I question my sanity sometimes - and I would be the first to tell you that I'm one stark crazy don't-give-a-sh*t SOB. Just to save you the trouble of having to figure that out on your own or getting to read about it on some libelous website.
But at the end of the day, I do what I have to do and I do NOT like people testing my resolve because I never met a challenge I didn't like. If I let things slide, it is because I tend to excercise common sense and restraint while weighing the pros and cons for what would come if I were to proceed.
Given all that, I am usually the easiest target of abuse by people who find it normal to behave online badly, disrepect others and put developers under siege. When you act like a person, you get branded. Those who say I make bad games, read it somewhere having NEVER played ANY of my games. Most who HAVE played them and found it not to their liking, don't go around sending me hate mail, harrassing, stalking and libeling me at every opportunity (http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=16&t=000592&p=3#000058). Someone declars war on you, insults you etc, you're supposed to suck it all in because they want to feel better about themselves. If that was acceptable public behavior, a lot of people with either be in jail or worse. They do it online because this is the age of the lawless frontier where bad behavior and libel is just as prevalent as child porn and abduction.
So, the fate of that thread or anything that I do and which comes under scrutiny by those who would seek to continue harrassing, libeling and character assassinating me, is EXACTLY the reason I am the way I am and don't take crap from anyone.
Least of all from rude fanboys who lack the basic reading and comprehension skills.
A LOT of industry people know me personally. Some like me. Some don't. I don't lose sleep over fickle alliances. I do lose sleep over that new bug I have to investigate and fix so that the poor guy whose money makes my life and career possible, can continue to play my game and remain faithful to me because he knows that I care. And if anyone wonders why I am still in business and have a loyal fanbase, it is for the simple fact that if you treat someone with RESPECT you deserve the same back. No compromises. No excuses. No waffling.
My history with Interplay. A backstory:
I am an exceedingly loyal person and always have been. Loyalty is something I don't take lightly. My fans know this. My contractors and employees who have been with me for many, many years, know this. The media folks who have known me since (according to some) I was a seemingly incompetent no-talent-having loudmouth, know this.
When I was in trouble after my first game tanked (thanks to Take Two) and was determined to push on, I went to Interplay. All I had was a failed game on my resume. Major financial losses and mounting debt. And the recovered rights to MY dream. I didn't care about the money. I just wanted my property back and the chance to move on. So I settled out of court with Take Two and moved on with my property and what little money I got from it.
I had failed at my first attempt of making a commercially viable game. That was late 1996, a game that I had conceived as far back as 1988 when I could barely program.
Knowing ALL this (since they knew me back when I was with Mission Studios, later bought out by Take Two), Interplay treated me with nothing but the utmost respect and regard. They (at least those I dealt with directly, such as Phil Adam, Jeff Jirsa etc) didn't care that I had - merely months prior - been in every media news bit over the BC3K 1996 farce. Didn't care that I was the butt of every imagineable joke. Didn't care that - to anyone - I lacked the experience to do a retail game. Most of all, there were those at Interplay who were clearly opposed to the idea of bringing me onboard. All the Interplay execs cared about was if I could deliver on what I promised. I gave my word that I would and got to work with merely a virtual handshake even BEFORE the contract was signed.
Several months later, I delivered BC3K v2.0 as promised. On time. Within the budget. And without fanfare. It was a budget release. It made money and I proceeded to work on the game (to which Interplay had the first rights of refusal) that was to become BCM released in late 2001. They were never late in royalty reporting. They were never late in paying me. The books were always clean and clear. I never had to audit (as I have a right to) them ever.
Interplay was already headed for trouble around that time and this was attributed to their inability to fund BCM. Know what they did? They gave me back the rights. No fuss. No aggravation. And wished me well.
Further along, several months before their BC3K v2.0 rights were to expire and revert back to me, I asked them if I could have the rights back so that I could release the game for free. Without any fanfare, they agreed. Shortly after, like my first BC3K game, I released BC3K v2.09 on the Internet for free. To this day, it is still one of highest Internet game downloads in history and still pops up on the download charts every now and again.
This industry is all about alliances and loyalty if and when you find it. When I needed a reference for some industry deals, programs (e.g. to be one of the first indie game devs to be admitted to the MS XBox dev program), my Interplay contacts were my first reference. When people were sending all sorts of rubbish emails, weblinks etc to Interplay, sure they all made their way to me and all I needed was to offer a reasonable explanation and truth of same. No judgement calls. No yelling. No disrespect.
The behavior of the HLP fanboys is NOTHING compared to what Interplay had to go through when word got out that I was about to sign with them. Despite the derogatory, libelous email campaign (you who were doing it, know yourselves) they still signed and stuck by me. And I delivered like I ALWAYS do. Fifteen years. Five games. Millions of dollars in revenue. Yes. I said millions. And my publishers and distributed/sold my games, know this to be the 100% truth.
Sure, all corporations have their problems and nobody is immune to them. When I heard of Interplay's troubles, I started looking for my friends. Most of them had moved on just before the sink started sinking;others stayed.
Recently when I heard of the final impending doom, I became concerned. Good people DO always land on their feet when they move on and the troubles at Interplay cannot be attributed to any one thing or any one person. Though everyone would like to think so, it is a LOT bigger than that and unlike most, I know a fair bit about the troubles, bad decisions, internal politics and whatnot.
Shortly hearing about the sale of the Fallout3 rights to Bethesda, the first (I kid you not) thing that came to mind was, Freespace!!!! I don't know why and I simply cannot explain it. I mean, its not like I was crying when other properties failed. I mean, what do I have at stake? Nothing. Thats what. Devs fall by the wayside every other week or so and the flurry of emails and outcries, dies in less than a week. No consequences. No recourse.
If Interplay is selling properties, they are no doubt attempting to stay affloat (what they've been doing for years) for as long as possible. My first thought was, what if I got the Freespace license, what would I do with it?
I had no frigging idea. All I knew is that if I could get the license, make a GOOD game out of such as highly regarded (albeit in a small circle) franchise AND help keep this once great company afloat that much longer, it would be my way of saying thanks to a company that was loyal to me, from start to finish; and also a way to retire a franchise that ended abruptly (if you've playing FS2 to the end, then u know what I'm talking about), in style. THIS was the reason why one of my poll questions asked if the franchise should die with FS2 instead of being messed with.
I didn't expect ANYONE to understand the logic in all of this, hence the reason I didn't even mention it in my first feeler post. Obtaining the license was one thing. Funding and developing a game was clearly another.
So, those [fanboys] who regard my intent as something other than what it is, are barking up the wrong tree. Which, in itself, is not entirely surprising. People fear that which they don't understand. And there is a good reason why I am feared in all industry circles. Apart from my industry contacts, my loyalties run deep and those who deal with me, know this full well. Thats why I'm still around while others have fallen.
What I wasn't prepared for over this Freespace3 intent, was the vehement response I got from the so called fanbase. Its like crowd control. To regard those unruly members of the HLP community as fans, would be the same as saying that the Freespace franchise is worth saving because of them. I mean, which publisher in their RIGHT minds would want to?
It is a well known fact and part of the industry mythos that fanatics (not to be confused with fans) are injected into any product fanbase. These are the anti-social misfits who have nothing invested other than they want to be a part of something, even if it means being a part of the wrong thing. For anyone who did sociology and or psychology, it is a known fact that the premise of anti-social behavior is borne of the need to belong to something and the need to gain attention and recognition whether misplaced, misunderstood or otherwise. The enemy of my friend is my enemy, is the foundation upon which gang warfare is built.
In the previous thread (and parts of this), all you see are personal attacks, links to websites with personal attacks, derogatory comments etc. NONE of which have ANYTHING to do with the discussion of whether or not the Freespace franchise should end up in my hands.
THIS behavior is not uncommon and these fans are using this discussion as yet another vehicle to attack Derek Smart. What they haven't learned is, this [abuse] has ALL been done before, better and by people who are slightly more competent than a pack of one eyed gerbils on acid. In short, it is of ZERO consequence and makes NO difference in the general scheme of things. Its all just noise.
But this is not a thread about sociology and I'm not running for office.
Before I close this post (and then post ALL my comments so far on this matter), I'm going to make some things painfully clear once again, since most of what I've been saying has been lost amidst all the noise and smoke.
[list=1]
- I have every intentions of obtaining the Freespace license. If Interplay is willing to sell it and for the right price, I'm buying it.
- Despite the niche nature of my games (all of which are successful in that they MAKE money), I have NO intentions of making another Battlecruiser game with a Freespace title. For that, I can use my time, effort, resources and money to develop a new action based space sim franchise that is true to the premise that was Freespace. Since I'm not in the business of developing clones, thats not going to happen. I mean, why would I? If I can't develop a Freespace title, I'm going to stick with my own valuable industry recognized properties.
- IF I DO get the license, my first port of call is to reach out to the original Volition devs whose vision it is that shaped the franchise. I have no expectations about the outcome and I don't care. If I don't expect anything, I can't be disappointed.
- IF I DO get the license, I have absolutely NO intentions of contacting, nor getting ANY Freespace mod developer involved in the project. NONE of them. Not a single one.
- As for the existing Freespace fanbase, I will continue to regard them as what they are, fans of a game series. Nothing more. Nothing less. I don't need advise. I don't need input. I don't need direction. Support is all I need. I won't be making a game for someone else's vision. I would be making a game that speaks out to the premise and legacy of the Freespace mythos but with my own ideas for what I believe will take the franchise to new heights. Anyone wanting to make a Freespace clone, are welcome to do it. The FS2 source code is out there. Go do it. Let ME do what I want to do!!
- And yes, if I do get it, there is a slight chance that I can and will screw it up. Thats a risk I have to take and something the fans will have to live with. So, you all might as well start praying about that right about now, as it is a best time as any, to find religion. Seriously.
Chronology of events...
07-15-04 12:52pm
A poll thread (http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=005485) designed to solicite results from the AVault Freespace fanbase, is created by me.
In post #12 (http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005485;p=1#000012) and #23 (http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005485;p=1#000023) I try to outline my formulating plan.
In post #28 (http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005485;p=2#000028), Flipside, a HLP community member, posts here first, then takes the news back to HLP.
In post #30 (http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005485;p=2#000030), I respond - once again as clearly as I could - to growing concern.
By post #31 (http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005485;p=2#000031), the abuse starts when people start registering just so they can, once again, start behaving badly because they've found another reason to hide behind the mask of Derek Smart is all things bad.
I get an email pointing me to a thread (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,25162.0.html) on the HLP forums. When I got there, I got the least of what I expected. Before you spend hours going through 19 pages of mostly bad behaviour, libel, character assassination or whatever, here are my three and only posts to that forum, to which I have no intentions of returning. Ever.
Where appropriate, I have - as always - quoted the post to which I am responding. This way, you don't have to go searching for the topic flow.
Before I do that, let me quote Flipside's post to that forum. Its on the first page of the thread.
Well, remember, he's a 'cut throat, no holds barred, no mercy' business man, he's trying to make this community sound like a half-confused muddle for his own gain.
After his comments on Adrenaline, I wouldn't touch his game with someone elses bargepole.
post #1, page 4 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,25162.0.html)
Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
First Post
Gents, some of the posts in this thread, are EXACTLY the reason why game developers AND publishers hardly pay attention to a game's fanbase.
So, go ahead, insult me all you want. Fat lot of good THAT is going to do. If anything, your posts will serve as indication to the industry in general, that well, those of you who want to turn this into a pissing content, are NOT worthy of anything tangible with regards to this franchise or anything associated with it. Look, they're not giving out library cards for bad behavior. So, if you can't behave at home, at the VERY least, have some self respect and behave yourself when in the company of others who are deserving of respect.
Now we're got that out of the way, lets see....
I'm not here to win any hearts, blow any minds, organize cookouts, take long walks in the park or pass around the walm milk. All I want to say it if anyone has played ANY of my games, not to mention the recently released Universal Combat, it should be clearly apparent that you're not dealing with some fly-by-night developer of a mod crew thats going to disappear overnight.
My games have been around for almost fifteen years, believe it or not and I have so far released five games - all of which made money - and I have an install base that clearly eclipses you lot. By a galaxy wide margin. My game - believe it or not - was one of those that made money for Interplay. They didn't lose money on it, not matter how much or how little it made. I got paid. They got their money's worth and I join the ranks for those who are saddened by their demise as I had some really good friends there.
So, lets cut the crap and get real here. Now. Would you rather NOT see another Freespace title in the retail channel, with high calibre values and from a team with a HISTORY and EXPERIENCE in making SPACE games? Or would you rather see it go to some larger company who is going to turn it into some unrecognizeable crap so they can leech off the Freespace name?
I'm ACTIVELY trying to get the license and given that I had a really good relationship with Inteplay (they published my second game), it will all boil down to money and whether or not Interplay is willing to let it go.
If I get it, I'm going to develop this game. NO amount of crying, magic, spellcasting, running outside naked and yelling or coming to my house with +2 Armor of God and +6 whupass, is going to change that. So, the ones making these crazy posts (the attention must be nice - try dating) might as well go to sleep tonight knowing that as tenacious as my reputation is, if there is ANY chance of obtaining this license, I'm going to get it.
YOU insulting lot have VERY few choices and options. You are either going to be a part of the end result or you remain a part of the problem that will let this legacy and much regarded franchise die with Freespace2. Think about this. It makes NO difference to me. I CONSISTENTLY develop, publish and sell games. So, its not like I don't have a project (considering that I have no less than THREE in development right this minute) to fund and develop. I do this out of love for the Freespace franchise and out of respect for what I - as a gamer and a space sim developer - deem to be a legacy and one of the greatest space sims ever developed.
That is all. As you were.
post #2, page 5 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,25162.0.html)
Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
uhm, huh?
[list=1]
- I didn't insult anyone. I wrote in plain English. And if there is anyone here who doesn't understand English, they need to get someone transllate my verse for them.
- I NEVER said that all posts here were insulting or flaming. Again, my post was written in PLAIN English and where necessary, I tried to make the distinction when address those who HAVE been insulting and inflammatory.
- I'm not here to be a part of anyone's Q&A session. If I wanted to host one, I'd create my own thread and discuss it within. I do NOT intend on answering ANY questions as it relates to my plans if I do in fact get this license. IF I do feel the need to solicit comments, feedback etc, I know where to find the relevant parties.
- Yes, I have an ego. But thats not MY problem to deal with. I am quite comfortable with it just the way I am. I am an Alpha male. A leader. Not some snivelling idiot who gets to be anyone's ***** or Yes- man. Having an ego is a pre-requisite for being a stong person. Most people who bandy the word ego around, have NO frigging clue WHAT it even means. The word itself has just been passed down from one uninformed and ignorant generation to the next. Next time you get the chance, find out what the word really means and you will immediately see how out of place and out of context it is as is popularly used. Yes, I have an ego. Deal with it. I don't have a problem with it. So why should I care what a bunch of people think?
How can I forget the group of people who couldn't make Freespace2 a retail success worthy of its effort? Do you REALLY want to go there?
You have issues. I don't remember ANY post ANYWHERE where I even came ANYWHERE close to saying or infering that which you speak of. So please stop putting words in my mouth.
post #3, page 6 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,25162.0.html)
Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
Blaming someone else for your actions is a sign of weakness. You are weak.
People usually fear that which they do not understand. I am a very complex and hard person to understand. I like it like that because - at the very least - it means that everyone knows where they stand with me.
As for greatest. A game does not have to be great. It just has to be FUN and PROFITABLE.
If you knew ANYTHING about the business of game development or the responsibilities of game developers and publishers, you would immediately recognize the ludicrousness of your post.
My plans for Freespace3, if I get it, are memorialized in these posts (http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005485). I have nothing further to add until the time comes.
This will be my last post.
During this time, most of the core HLP community had already registered here and turned the AVault forum to a mirror of the battleground that the HLP thread had now begun.
Amidst (as seen in several HLP posts) several calls from his community of wannabes, Derek "Kazan" Meeks, registers here on AVault and posts
this nonsense (http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005485;p=5#000122) (which he SAYS was polite!!) to which I then replied (http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005485;p=6#000127).
Back on HLP, on page 12 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,25162.0.html), he posts this
sorry i just had to own him on AVault for his arrogance
...and it doesn't get better than that.
The end result is that, not only did a whole bunch of people get banned from here, the actions by the HLP crew (not all of them of course), ended up doing what crap like this usually does. NOTHING. It is of ZERO consequence. If anything, they've pretty just tested my resolve and if they've never had to deal with Derek Smart before, before long and if things go as planned, they soon will. THEN they'll have something to really, truly ***** about, given my very low tolerance threshold for crap perpetrated by anti-social misfits.
That is all. And this will be my LAST post here or anywhere else about my bid to obtain the Freespace license.
[ July 16, 2004, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Derek Smart [3000AD] ]
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you honestly don't want us to read all of that do you?
:p
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Now, as a developer, i'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, but as a person, i'm sorry to say, his posts, and the way he worded them, it made him sound egotistical, arrogant, and "twitchy"..
now, if he delivers, that's all good, but, Derek, if you read this, you have to realise that modders can be the life of games, i mean, look at half-life..
Treat gamers, and modders with respect, they are, after all, paying your bills. :nod:
now, i hope i'm not coming off as being nasty, but, like i said, you need to keep that ego in check.. it's gonna give you more trouble than its worth.
"How can I forget the group of people who couldn't make Freespace2 a retail success worthy of its effort? Do you REALLY want to go there?"
you are being asinine, by the way.. it was the screwed advertising by interplay that led freespace to be underrated as it is.
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I'm totally, absolutely and definitely lacking any vocabulary that would be necessary to describe even the size or shape of this guy's ego's shadow, seen from 200 miles distance.
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BUH!?!
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argh too long, head hurts....
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"How can I forget the group of people who couldn't make Freespace2 a retail success worthy of its effort? Do you REALLY want to go there?"
So wait... he's saying that by us buying the game, and getting our friends to buy it, we did FS2 an injustice?
Twisted logic indeed. I bought FS2 the first day it hit the shelf. And paid full price. I did my part. Did he do his?
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BY DEREK
Anyone wanting to make a Freespace clone, are welcome to do it. The FS2 source code is out there. Go do it. Let ME do what I want to do!!
What are we waiting for? Seriously, a community wide project in conjunction with the SCP could be a major success. Especially since we don't ask gamers to pay for it. the right media coverage et all would make for a pretty damned good game. We have the talent, so I ask you: Why not?
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I'll own him again If I have to..
I'm just waiting for him to file his unfouded lawsuits against the SCP and Ferrium so I can call the EFF in and go to bat against him
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Originally posted by Tiara
What are we waiting for? Seriously, a community wide project in conjunction with the SCP could be a major success. Especially since we don't ask gamers to pay for it. the right media coverage et all would make for a pretty damned good game. We have the talent, so I ask you: Why not?
I thought that was what the Ferrium Project was all about. Or has my interpretation skills deteriorated that badly?
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Originally posted by Tiara
PCGamer... that's one.
Ok, who else? :drevil:
Penny Arcade. XD Someone drop Tycho a line, now.
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Kaz, cool it. Don't get all arrogant like he is, no one's going to "own" anyone. Just satisfy yourself that like 98% of gamers agree with us and be done with it.
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If worst comes to worst, we keep Ferrium as our own unofficial FS3. An engine for our own ships. If we need FS2/1 ships in them, we remake them, like the persues and the Deimos floating around. He can't touch our creations. Especially since we remade the maps ourselves... Am I right?
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Theorically we could be sued for the concepts...
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We couldn't even release Ferrium with an entirely different Universe and then make a FS mod for it?
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Couple of things, I wasn;t the one who directed people here, I was directed there myself by the first post in the thread :) I posted a perfectly polite response stating my concerns, being a member of the Freespace 2 community, and pointing people to the SCP project, which I 'thought' might be interesting to people in a gaming related site. When you asked for clarification, I gave it, and was content with your response. I even posted a defence of you right to write the game any way you saw fit should you get the license.
I then had to sit through multiple pages of you declaring yourself the 'Alpha Male' calling this forum, which I have been a member of for 3 years now a 'Cesspit' and generally being beligerent and rude to anyone who didn't automatically accept your Messiahdom.
I had to sit and watch all Freespace 'Fanboys' bunched together, those that were rude, and I am not defending them, and those that were polite, and given stereotypes by practically every person who agreed with you. That kind of stereotyping and assumption has already led to enough trouble wouldn't you agree?
Yes, after your quotes I personally wouldn't touch your game with someone elses bargepole, and I'll make no secret of the fact. I asked a polite question at first, and was perfectly satisfied with your response. You then went on to start slagging off fans, not just of Freespace 2, but 'The gaming industry in general' was you exact words, you are rude, you are arrogant and you have no manners or people skills whatsoever. If a compete stranger came along and called people that you had worked alongside for years twats, would your opinion be tainted?
I point out that whilst you mentioned that some of the posts in Avault were out of order, you went on to brand ALL people in HLP, you can deny it if you like, but calling the HLP a cesspit is not limiting your opinions to an individual.
As I said in my very first post, if you want to buy the rights to Freespace 3 and write it, good luck, I hope it sells well, since it hasn't been written I have no reason to say whether it would be a good or bad game, but I maintain my stance quite proudly, I will not be buying it, it's a tiny protest, but it's the only one I've got :)
Oh yes, and finally, I DO think you are slagging us off as a pre-emptive pimp for your own work, and I DO believe you worship money far more than quality, as direct quote..
'A Game doesn't have to be Great, it just has to make money'.
Your words, not mine, and words that betray the entire ideal of being a programmer.
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Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80
you honestly don't want us to read all of that do you?
:p
I did read it throught. It took at least 40 minutes, but I think it was worth. There were two things I noticed(I wouldn't quote, if you don't mind):
1. FreeSpace 2 was a retail failure.
Maybe! Testers of different gaming magazines(couldn't make it with better English, sorry, I hope you know who I mean) were expecting more changes, new interface, more new ships and they degraded FS2. For example, the Hungarian PC Guru magazine gave 77% to FS2. !! But it should be realized that someone who liked FS1 liked FS2, too.
2. In the first part of his 'life story at Interplay', he told he was extremely loyal and his team is talking very highly of him. It may be true he is quite loyal, I understand it. But if you go downer in that section, you will notice him saying he doesn't do this business for money. Go downer when he starts reasoning why his prior games were not such great failures: He states they weren't failures becase they MADE money. Interesting?
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Like I said on NW no court would uphold it.
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More IRC goodness.
NekoUni> hehehehe everyne is like "we need to call interplay and buy the rights"
NekoUni> would we be the first mod community to do that?
DoesNotExist> Probably not, but it WOULD rock.
NekoUni> XD
NekoUni> we'd get a lot of publicity
DoesNotExist> And you could sell it to someone who ISN'T Derek Smart
NekoUni> hahahaha
NekoUni> LIEK VOLITION
NekoUni> we'd sell it to them for a nickel :D
NekoUni> because we love them so much
NekoUni> heh, rictor sums it up
NekoUni> "I also love he keeps talking about how "he" will make the game, about how "he" won't screw it up and how "he" does this and that. Yeah, those programmers, artists and designers, who work their asses off, they're just a periphery, right?."
DoesNotExist> judging from the graphics in universal combat, he does it all himself...
NekoUni> hahahah
DoesNotExist> Seriously, I'm reading a SITE on him.
DoesNotExist> he's an ass.
Blah blah me saying I should read the whole thread when I still haven't.
DoesNotExist> he also swears "i - am - going - to - destroy - (the owner of the site i'm reading)"
NekoUni> XD
DoesNotExist> Universal Combat may have made money for interplay, but it made money from the bargain bin
NekoUni> yeah
NekoUni> "I'm ACTIVELY trying to get the license and given that I had a really good relationship with Inteplay (they published my second game), it will all boil down to money and whether or not Interplay is willing to let it go."
DoesNotExist> ..huh?
DoesNotExist> Didn't he declare bankruptcy at one point?
NekoUni> LOL
NekoUni> you're kidding
DoesNotExist> Not so
NekoUni> christ, this guy is as lame as John Romero
DoesNotExist> Bingo!
NekoUni> he's got an ego like Roger Waters too
DoesNotExist> Personally, I suspect he's a pathological liar.
DoesNotExist> nice D.Smart quote: "The flaming didn't bother me much - like someone said, I'm pure carbon."
DoesNotExist> I think he missed the point
DoesNotExist> Calling him "pure carbon" would mean that Derek Smart is one big walking pile of flamebait.
That's the last log I'm posting, I swear. XD
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I find it very odd that Mr. smart makes reference to
"I have a dedicated team who share my vision. I have a highly dedicated fanbase who I know I can rely on every few years to be there when I need them most."
And yet also
"I have NO intentions of making another Battlecruiser game with a Freespace title. For that, I can use my time, effort, resources and money to develop a new action based space sim franchise that is true to the premise that was Freespace. Since I'm not in the business of developing clones, thats not going to happen"
It sounds to me as if he wants to trade on the critical respect of the Freespace brand - still one of the critically top-rated games of all time - and use that to push out his own aims.
In other words, develop a game for Battlecruiser fans, yet with a name that actually means something in the internet.
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The man speaks good, no doubt. And you know what? If he does get in touch with original FS2 V devs and gets their ongoing aid with this, then perhaps our (ignored) input won't matter. I'd much rather see FS3 come from V than from us.
But I'd also much rather see FS3 come from us than from Derek Smart sans V. I've never played his games, but the poor ratings they got are not the reason I say so. I say so because of his attitude.
So if he does get the FS IP, fine, so be it. I'll pressure Dave Baranec and anyone else I can get in touch with to influence the development as much as they can, and to help him make it into a worthy succession to FS.
If not, we'll still be around. ;)
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If not, we will launch FREEdomSPACE 3 ;)
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Sandwich : Damn Right!
Zarax : Well, it was going to be Called FRENCHSpace 3 before the Iraq war ;)
hehehe, Sorry, I couldn't resist that ;)
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I really don't mind Smart making FS3. I just won't be buying it.
The only thing that worries me are his legal threats. I can very easily see him purchasing the rights and sueing the SCP the next day. :wtf:
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Originally posted by Sticks
...
The only thing that worries me are his legal threats. I can very easily see him purchasing the rights and sueing the SCP the next day. :wtf:
And if he does sue the SCP, what will be then? They won't be able to track down the coders and punish them. The most they can do is to shut down the SCP forums and the website. That's all.
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Incidentally, here's the primary reason why I have so little faith in Derek smart to develop FS3;
Gamespot
FS2 review - 9.4 / 10 (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sim/freespace2/review.html)
Universal combat review - 5.9/10 (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sim/universalcombat/review.html)
CVG
FS2 - 85% (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/r/?page=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/reviews/reviews_story.php(que)id=23456)
Universal Combat - 45% (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/r/?page=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/reviews/reviews_story.php(que)id=23456)
Adrenaline Vault
FS2 - 4.5 stars out of 5 (http://www.avault.com/reviews/review_temp.asp?game=freespace2&page=3)
UC - 3 out of 5 (http://www.avault.com/reviews/review_temp.asp?game=ucombat&page=2)
IGN
FS2 - 8.9 / 10 (http://pc.ign.com/articles/162/162033p1.html)
UC - 5.9/10 (http://pc.ign.com/articles/162/162033p1.html)
that should be enough - you can find more if you really want to.
In short, even if I liked the guy, his track record has shown him to be incapable of making a game as good as Freespace 2 was & is. Combined with his assertion on the AV thread that coding FS3 would be 'below his abilities', I can't think of any way in I would have trust in his ability to write a good Freespace game. Or, indeed, a good game.
EDIT; oh, and when I pointed out a myriad of bad UC reviews on the Av thread, his response was to blame the reviewers (for not 'getting it'), and then the publishers (for giving the reviewers the wrong impression - I can only guess that impression would be that is that UC would be an action orientated game....although wasn;t it suppossed to be?)
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At least this DS guy appears to be honest in his way of communication. Can't say the same for many ppl in the industry, who show a friendly face to the public, but in the end their actions will be the complete opposite of what they said.
The way to deal with such great egos is to filter away the part of their talk you don't like; arguing with them is just banging your head on the wall - no avail.
If he wants to make FS3, let him.
If it'll be good, great.
If it'll be bad, well, it (not the community stuff here) will pass in oblivion...
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Well, he has posted 'permission' already, he said that if anyone wanted to develop a FS2 clone, the Source Code is out there, and we can feel free to use it.
In black and white :)
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Originally posted by Sandwich
If not, we'll still be around. ;)
True dat. :)
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Agreed.
I say let him have a go. He deserves that much, and who knows, it might turn out ok. :nod:
We already have a backup plan, so it's no big deal. Just wish him an his team luck, and we'll go about our business until he's done.
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Originally posted by Flipside
Well, he has posted 'permission' already, he said that if anyone wanted to develop a FS2 clone, the Source Code is out there, and we can feel free to use it.
In black and white :)
But FSO is not an FS2 clone, :wtf: ?
Originally posted by kv1at3485
...
I say let him have a go. He deserves that much, and who knows, it might turn out ok. :nod:
...
I have been saying the same since my first post.
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*reads*
Oh, so that what everybody meant about the pop machine...
So any news? Since page 17 :p
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Good news, I emailed Tycho of Penny Arcade about this. I seriously doubt he'll read it.. I tried to make it short. Ah well. Hopefully it'll make for a funny comic. ^^ I <3 PA.
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He sounds condescending to the dedicated fan base that has kept Freespace alive for five years. If anything, he should have done the reverse and ackowledged the imprtance of places like HLP (not just for Freespace, for any game). Without mods, HalfLife would have 1/5th of the fame and Valve would have 1/5th of the money it does right now.
Seriously, no one is better qualified to comment a game than its fans, and the fact that he pissed all over HLP is one of the main reasons I've got it in for him.
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TopAce, by definition, as long as long as it uses the FS2 'Engine' it is a clone, it's like FireWarrior, which, I believe, is a Halo Clone.
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Originally posted by Setekh
the actions by the HLP crew (not all of them of course)
He has some nerves saying that, after I don't know how many comments on how the HLP folks are retarded fanboys.
Ah well, the important fact is that he stated that he'd let the SCP dudes alone, the rest I don't care. If he does get the license, let see if he can keep true to his words.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
In other words, develop a game for Battlecruiser fans, yet with a name that actually means something in the internet.
Why am I hearing "MoO3" in my head?
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Rictor, i'm sorry but i think it's unfair to say to from you...
There is plenty (or at least it used to be) of good developers around, and with [V] scripts plus some community feedback they can do a great work...
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Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80
Why am I hearing "MoO3" in my head?
Because you live next to a farm?
:p
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:lol:
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as long as it is set in the FS universe it's a clone
being on the same engine doesn't make it a clone
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Originally posted by Flipside
TopAce, by definition, as long as long as it uses the FS2 'Engine' it is a clone, it's like FireWarrior, which, I believe, is a Halo Clone.
I nieither know FireWarrior nor Halo, if they are two different games, they are clones. But FSO and FS2 are the same game, just one of them is the 'uberized' one.
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Originally posted by Rictor
He sounds condescending to the dedicated fan base that has kept Freespace alive for five years. If anything, he should have done the reverse and ackowledged the imprtance of places like HLP (not just for Freespace, for any game). Without mods, HalfLife would have 1/5th of the fame and Valve would have 1/5th of the money it does right now.
Seriously, no one is better qualified to comment a game than its fans, and the fact that he pissed all over HLP is one of the main reasons I've got it in for him.
The more I think about it, the more I think this is an act of over-reaction or ignorance (not him being ignorant; they're distinct). Think about it - what person in their right mind would ever do something like this if they knew what was at stake? You wouldn't, would you? Yet many of us have been slightly guilty of doing similar things ourselves- things that people in their right minds would not do - like antagonising members from another forum of the same community (the FS community). We're over-reacting, I think he is too - nothing more.
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No, I didn't mean that the community should develop the game, I meant that they should be consulted. And if 95% of gamers, all fans, say that you should not make it, then thats a pretty clear signal. He is not trusted, and if anyone is going to make FS3, he ought to be very trusted. better nothing than a bad sequel.
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Quite frankly, I'd just like us to throw it into the SCP big time now. I just read through that thread again. I need a shower :(
You know, we could always wait until it's released, and if it gets a really poor review just Email the magazines and say 'We've got our own version of a sequel, and the code has been developed in exactly the same way as Freespace 2 was.'
If it gets a good review, then fine, we had fun :D
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Because you live next to a farm?
:p
:p
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A 'clone' game would be depicted as one which had the same gameplay as another. I.e. Firewarrior - IIRc - had the same basic look & 2 gun dynamic as Halo, etc.
Of course, there's a difference when it comes to sequels. Whilst no-one would want the same game remade & resold, neither would you want or expect the gameplay to be totally changed.
I wouldn't say the community should be consulted so much as listened to. i.e. the same basic feedback you'd want from a beta test - the advantage of any existing fanbase is the range of opinions towards the weaknesses & strengths of the game / series.
One of the main examples I'd point to is GTA:Vice City - Rockstar invited and implemented many suggestions from the fans of GTA3, and this led to one of the best & most succesful games of all time.
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Not to mention Relic, who not only accept fans, but have built an entire department around helping modders.
Ever wondered why they are Big-League?
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Originally posted by Tiara
What are we waiting for? Seriously, a community wide project in conjunction with the SCP could be a major success. Especially since we don't ask gamers to pay for it. the right media coverage et all would make for a pretty damned good game. We have the talent, so I ask you: Why not?
Because nobody will never agree on the plot. I know I won't, I have my own ideas. I know it's the same for everybody. Would I do concessions on the plot, I'd work on it only half-heartedly.
I'm sorry, but FS3? I'd rather use Ferrium and do my own campaign, with my own ideas. A TC, this time, because, as the arrogant french bastard than I am, I consider my own scifi universe ( on which I've worked on for at least half a dozen years now ) superior. So between making a bastardized FS3 from scratch and doing my own thing? There's no question.
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Originally posted by Flipside
Not to mention Relic, who not only accept fans, but have built an entire department around helping modders.
Ever wondered why they are Big-League?
Well, mod support is vital for most, if not all, AAA games. The only exception is maybe the cross-platform games, i.e. those originally developed to use more arcane, non PC native, file types & whatnot.
Just look at the success of both Epic (UT) and Valve (HL) in this respect. It's obvious you'd be an idiot to ignore or obstruct modders, because it only hurts longevity of your titles. And, of course, it also forces developers to make true advancements for sequels - because otherwise the fans will do the same through mods.
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Originally posted by Nico
Because nobody will never agree on the plot. I know I won't, I have my own ideas. I know it's the same for everybody. Would I do concessions on the plot, I'd work on it only half-heartedly.
I do think this is the main part of it. Ships and weapons are far less of an issue. What actually happens? Deep down, if we want FS3, we would only want the definitive version of what happens. Therein lies the problem of a user-driven FS3-style project.
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Originally posted by Nico
Because nobody will never agree on the plot. I know I won't, I have my own ideas. I know it's the same for everybody. Would I do concessions on the plot, I'd work on it only half-heartedly.
I'm sorry, but FS3? I'd rather use Ferrium and do my own campaign, with my own ideas. A TC, this time, because, as the arrogant french bastard than I am, I consider my own scifi universe ( on which I've worked on for at least half a dozen years now ) superior. So between making a bastardized FS3 from scratch and doing my own thing? There's no question.
I am pretty certain that everybody has his/her own 'plot of the sequel' in the case of FS1. You HAD to accept the plot of FS2 if you liked the game. And we all know you did both(liked and accepted it). As a mainstay of the Inferno staff and a professional modeller, you have RIGHT to do not trust Derek's team. Everybody has RIGHT to do so, actually
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I don't care what he does with the license as long as it doesn't hurt us modding for FS2. But with his apparent obsession with libel and legal threats I don't see much of his time going into FS3.
Without being rude, Smart's past games have had very niche appeal at best and I foresee the same will be true of whatever he does with FS3. Like he said, Freespace was ultimately a failed franchise and nothing since in the genre has really succeeded. Given his past gaming failures (never saw any of them in the shops, even) I doubt he'll be the one to break the mold.
In any case I don't really care; he can get on with his project and we can proceed with ours. I am somewhat concerned by his apparent determination to stamp out modders, but I assume he won't have even a legal toe to stand on.
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What I am doing as a modder has no bearing there. I assume that somewhere exists the real FS3 plot, at least the outline for it ( V can't have decided to make the shivans blow up Capella for no reason ). I'll accept anything coming from V, because they made the story, they know what's to come. But that Smart guy, ok, he's a game developer and all, but first ( at least he claims it ), he's a FS fan, no different than us. W/o Volition giving the story to him, well, he'd have to make it up. Which means it would be a fan made story. Which has no more value, to my eyes, than, let say, Inferno, MT or BWO plots. Or mine.
Same goes for a HLP-made FS3. That's why I believe it's better to stick to a handful of different visions. I prefer a BWO and a MT than a HLPFS3.
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Originally posted by SadisticSid
Like he said, Freespace was ultimately a failed franchise and nothing since in the genre has really succeeded.
On that particular note, I'd really like to know the actual Freelancer's selling figures. Coz as much as people criticize it, there seems that MANY people played it ( played the final product, not the demo ). Seems odd for a commercial failure, if you ask me.
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Originally posted by Nico
On that particular note, I'd really like to know the actual Freelancer's selling figures. Coz as much as people criticize it, there seems that MANY people played it ( played the final product, not the demo ). Seems odd for a commercial failure, if you ask me.
Freelancer was just a 3D version of Tyrian to me; I don't consider it part of the genre
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It's true, lots of Forums seem full of people who have played Freespace 2.
I think the Mods are the best way for this community to go, and then on to Ferrium afterwards. That way we also give a much wider choice. The hard part is finding enough staffers to get the job finished, but we will endure, we always do :)
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this situation has strengthened my resolve to make ferrium's primary dataset the universe i am designing, with FS2, WC and B5 mods as primary goals as well (primary enough for their needs to be included ni the design specs)
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Just so I'm clear on the point, what exactly is the final goal of Ferrium? As I understand it, its supposed to be a brand new engine, right? A game engine, designed specifically for space-sims?
And if that is the case, realistically speaking, what are the chances that it will a)be completed and b)be as good or better than the Freespace 2 engine.
I want to know, should I actually hold out hope for it, or what?
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Rictor: yes you're understanding the objective of Ferrium
A) High
B) Extremely High
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Provided you know your 3D math and a graphics API, putting together a space combat game ain't any great shucks. Kazan is certainly capable. The thing that'll make or break the game is the way the code is structured. Hopefully flexible and elegant, not big and hacky like FS2.
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Come on IP you know me - flexible coding is my middle name
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Well, if he's gonna make it then we ought to help him make it GOOD instead of bashing him down for just suggesting it!
I must admit I'm a bit concerned about a few things (The fact that he mentioned Mouse Control scares the **** out of me - Freelancer sold well because people thought it would be the next Elite. It wasn't. I think I would rather be dropped in a pit with 3 rabid badgers than try and fly, say, an Ursa with a mouse!), but if we can SHOW him how FS should be, then maybe, just maybe, he'll do a decent job of it!
I must admit that I'd be more comfortable if Volition did it, but...
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Kazan, your Ferrium web page indicates that the project design is 5% complete, none of the components have been started, and the only component that has even been staffed is network coding, which you are doing yourself. Is that an accurate status report, or has your team been so busy working on the actual project that you haven't had time to update the web page? How long have you been working on it?
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I think we(HLP) are acting like a big family when it comes to Freespace. We all want what is best for our child(FS) and we get very defensive if someone acts in an offensive manner toward our child. I think what really got me was how he claimed he was a fan and then basically said that he was going to ignore the fans cause they are all 12 and ignorant of the realities of game design.
For the record I'm 26 years old and am someone who follows game design with some interest, I just don't have any skillz that show it.
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here's my worthless take on the situation.
Before Esh IM'd me, I had no idea who the hell this Derek Smart person was. I still don't. I only know by what he posts.
First, by posting his intent on a public message board, it shows his complete lack of business sense and professionalism. I don't care what he's done in the past, but really- you just dont' do things like that.
Second, the group here at HLP have done more than anyone could imagine with the game. It's been 5 years, and I've known most of these posters the whole time. 5 YEARS.
All this talk of pooling money to purchase the license...not possible guys. You need to either organize into a legitimate group, or into a corporation- you can't own a share in licensing.
Third, his threatening of suing for IP- that's complete and utter nonsense. You can only go after someone using that if they are profiting from the property. A lot of companies like to go after and threaten people, however the Fair Use Act allows people to use IP for nonprofit reasons.
Not to mention, the engine itself is GPL- he can't touch it. He can't enforce the ship names, because of they're nature. He can only enforce the music, logos, shapes, and textures. And the name. That's it.
Now, remember what Volition did when they found out "Freespace" was already trademarked? They made it "Descent: Freespace" as it's officially known. It's so easy to get around IP-nazis it's almost laughable.
So all in all, I feel it's highly unlikely this person would purchase the license, however I'm not ruling it out. The community can purchase it, but needs to oraganize first. If the worst should happen, it won't be the end of the world, just the end of the name.
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Originally posted by milo
Kazan, your Ferrium web page indicates that the project design is 5% complete, none of the components have been started, and the only component that has even been staffed is network coding, which you are doing yourself. Is that an accurate status report, or has your team been so busy working on the actual project that you haven't had time to update the web page? How long have you been working on it?
milo - I think it's still early days in terms of development. But http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=98 is a better reflection of the current (official) status of Ferrium, I think.
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milo: i Ferrium just launched - the finished section is the file system abstraction, the network code comes later -- we're about to start full scale developement
heretic++ :D
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That's pretty much what I thought about the SCP and Ferrium stuff heretic, thanks for the clarification :)
The Ferrium project will be a while in developing, Source Code is 'off the peg', damn good 'off the peg', something like Monsoon or New Look, but still off the peg.
Ferrium is bespoke tailoring ;)
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Kazan, those concepts you have for Ferrium are pretty :cool:
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In my opinion if there is going to be a FS3, a bigger, better know company should make it.
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heretic: compliment the artists, not me
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Guys- face it, Freespace 3 is dead. Not happening. Even if this guy buys it, by what I've seen of his past games, it wouldn't even be worth the bargin bin.
Let the game go, but use it to advance your own interests. If Derek were to buy the rights, he's looking at about 3 to 4 years to put out a quality game.. one that a distributor will release.
And the status of the internet and technology, or just the FSCP in that amount of time will eclipse anything this guy can outsource to India.
Will the result of the FSCP be Freespace? doesn't have to be. You can call it something unique, like "Freespace: Endgame" and provided the engine used was either derivitive of the FS2 engine (or somethign unique) and 80% of the content is changed, you're free to do as you please.
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Originally posted by Kazan
heretic: compliment the artists, not me
looks like a good job from the team also.. still browsting around though.. i haven't been here in a while.
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Here's my question. Is anything going to change? Mr. Smart can't touch Ferrium or the SCP. He can't touch our mods. So what, if anything will change if he gets his hands on the rights? Nothing for me. He will screw up a poorly received sequel, that's all. He can't finish the story, [V] can. Has anyone tried to contact the guys at [V] for the finishing story?
Back to my question. What will change? Absolutely nothing. love live our modders.
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HAIRY!
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Originally posted by an0n
HAIRY!
HEEEEEEEYYYY cutie pie! ;7
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Exactly :)
He wants FS3, we want FS3, we just happen to want a different FS3. He pays a fortune for a license, [V] hand us access to FS2 on a plate, I think [V] have already answered our question for us ;)
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Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH
Here's my question. Is anything going to change? Mr. Smart can't touch Ferrium or the SCP. He can't touch our mods. So what, if anything will change if he gets his hands on the rights? Nothing for me. He will screw up a poorly received sequel, that's all. He can't finish the story, [V] can. Has anyone tried to contact the guys at [V] for the finishing story?
Back to my question. What will change? Absolutely nothing. love live our modders.
Nothing will change in terms of the fans, it's like a closing blow.. it's like watching your father sell a classic corvette to someone who proceeds to put a fart can/spinners/leather carseat covers and paint it hot pink.
Meanwhile you and your buddies are restoring a classic as well that looks incredible and you have the blessing of Harley Earl.
It's a pride thing, not more than that.
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Originally posted by heretic
..........it's like a closing blow.. it's like watching your father sell a classic corvette to someone who proceeds to put a fart can/spinners/leather carseat covers and paint it hot pink.
Meanwhile you and your buddies are restoring a classic as well that looks incredible and you have the blessing of Harley Earl.
It's a pride thing, not more than that.
Brilliant description! :)
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Originally posted by heretic
HEEEEEEEYYYY cutie pie! ;7
Now I remember why you scare me.
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Originally posted by an0n
Now I remember why you scare me.
Excellent....fear makes it clench tighter >:-]
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..........I hope to God there's like 50 typos in that sentence.
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Originally posted by an0n
..........I hope to God there's like 50 typos in that sentence.
:lol:
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Please keep this topic as serious as possible. It is, after all, being linked to by a major portion of the gaming community.
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Originally posted by an0n
HAIRY!
Originally posted by heretic
HEEEEEEEYYYY cutie pie! ;7
Ok, I can see you both running to embrace each other on a beach with cheesy romance movie music playing in the background, and it's not a good mental image.
:p
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Originally posted by Styxx
Ok, I can see you both running to embrace each other on a beach with cheesy romance movie music playing in the background, and it's not a good mental image.
You're lucky. I fast-forwarded to the wedding night.
I've got a faint image of Heretic's ass burned into everything in my imagination, now.
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*glares at an0n*
please, another forum (it can be here, just not here? Go spam something slightly less visable.
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Originally posted by StratComm
*glares at an0n*
please, another forum (it can be here, just not here? Go spam something slightly less visable.
We're allowed to have our tender moments and cuddle :doubt:
but alas, my time here runs short. I think this is all being overblown at something that may or may not come to pass.
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Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH
He can't finish the story, [V] can. Has anyone tried to contact the guys at [V] for the finishing story?
If he does start ot work on FS3 I only hope [V] gave him the story...
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From several attempts, we have yet to hear back from [V], AFAIK.
And Interplay are pretty much dead, so it's gonna be a ***** to find some active contact info for them.
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I've sent an email to one of the [V] people's personal accounts I know of... about 2 hours ago.
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I sent an email to [V] yesterday about what happened and if they plan on doing anything.
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I hope one of you gets a reply. i would realy like to know what thay think about the situation.
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Maybe we should co-ordinate any attempt to contact V, eh? Might end up effectively spamming their email accounts, otherwise. would I would ask, would be that people leave it to the HLP admins to contact V asking for a response - it would seem to be the most sensible way to go about it, given that these guys (Setekh, Styxx, Thunde....Kalfireth, etc) are probably the people who can speak for the vast majority of the Freespace community.
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*chortles.
Let the poor man think what he wishes boys; after he develops his game, he's going to have to come back to us, one way or another.
Now, let us ignore this fool for the moment. Remember (taken from Jdjtcagle's signature) 'An eye for an eye leaves the entire world blind' Which is why we need to take out his arms and legs too :P
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An eye for an eye only leaves you blind if you fail to strike first.
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Get both eyes on first strike, then he still has to find you ;)
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Well if they've seen what's been happening here they'd probably try and stay out of it as much as possible! :(
We'll just have to see how this pans out - As DS says, if he gets the licence then there isn't much we can do other than offer POLITE advice and pray like **** he does a good job.
I wish he didn't come across as such an arrogant person, but then again I don't know whether he's always like that or just reacting to the amount of crap being aimed at him.
I'm *am* concerned about his threats towards Kazan and FE2 'tho - That was out of line.
One thing is for sure, we will be in for some 'Interesting Times' in the forseeable future...
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Find a bigger developer than him, and them watch his efforts crumble...
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Cripes this even reached my ears back at Warpstorm.
Well I'm not worried, even if he does get the license, makes the game by himself.
I won't buy it. I won't accept it as cannon. So thusly, just like the last two Matrix movies for me, it simply won't have happened or existed. Simple really.
Now if he got the license, put together a good engine for it, and managed to get the fine folks at Volition who made the story and such for the original to lend a hand, I might take a look at it. V is V. :)
So that's my two cents on the matter.
Oh and I've been keeping tabs on the SCP and Ferrium projects. Looking fantastic ladies and gents. Some serious dedication there.
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I'll downl... *cough*buy*cough* it. :D
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LOL I've made my position perfectly clear, I will not play this game. Knowing the nature of the hands that went into making it, and his opinion of his own customers.
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Well I think there's very little to worry about anyway. From just about every forum this has showed up it, there has been a large volume of enraged outcry.
Even if he makes the game, he'll have lost the fanbase. He may rant and rave that he doesn't care about the fanbase but it really doesn't matter what he cares about. The fanbase is the hardcore players, the ones who give new life to a game later on. Hence why they're called fans. :)
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He'll pitch it to the Battlecruiser fanbase. That seems to be his expressed aim.
He's ignoring / slagging off the Freespace fanbase, because he'd have to make a product of both quality and focus to impress up. Whereas he can rehash Battlecruiser / UC and resell it.
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Ha, so he pitches it to his fanbase. Big deal. Unless they are as hardcore of fans as those here at HLP, what are they gonna produce? It won't be anything close to the stuff this community has made.
I mean the crowd here still puts their heart and soul into a game that's more then half-a-decade old! He can pitch it to the BC fans, but it'll have no soul.
Oh great..now I'm getting into things about soul. See what you made me do? :)
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Curiouser and curiouser.
This is what I get for having a day job... I totally missed this.
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Oh my sweet Jesus. I just read all the pages about this on all the forums that this has popped up on. (That I know of atelast). My eyes!
Anyways, I think that this man is legally insane. How the hell did he become an owner of his own company? He has no tact, is a complete and pompus ass, and all that other good stuff. Know what I say about him wanting to do this thing? Let him. He'll crash and burn. Hopefully FS3 will put him and his company out of business.
I have played BC (there was a free version on a PCG disc) and no way in hell would I or anyone else I know would pay for anything this guy has done.
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It won't put him out of business. His fan niche has supported him through every incarnation of Battlecruiser. They'll do the same for him if he makes FS3.
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Derek Smart has no good intentions for Freespace, my fellow fans. Here is a post from him recently posted in the thread where Derek Smart annouced he wanted Freespace ...(link) (http://proxy.guardster.com/cgi-bin/nph-proxy.cgi/010100A/687474702f766533642e69676e2e636f6d2f61727469636c65732f3533302f35333037373070312e68746d6c)
Word of warning. People are already setting themselves up to get banned (I think one may have already been banned). There is a very low tolerance threshold around here for the type of behavior you and your [HLP] kinds have displayed here. Unlike that lawless cesspit at HLP, these forums are actually moderated. Healthy debates are welcome. Flames are not.
Let me assure you of one thing that you can go to sleep with tonite. I have FULL intentions of getting this license. If I DO get it, you and your teenny leetle friends on your Ferrous Oxide project, are effectively, shutdown because I don't piss around when it comes to IP properties. You would do well to ask around. I've sued publishers for less and I have attorneys around the world, literally on speed dial.
Now, I will leave you with that thought, as I retire for the evening.
You will eventually come to regret this day. Mark my words.
Sorry if this is a repost from somewhere on these forums, I was just so pissed when I read this quote, I wanted to share it with you guys.
What an arrogant turd.
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Yeah that was posted in here already. It's already been said he doesn't have a leg to stand on in terms of those legal threats.
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Meh, he does this a lot, look at 'Something awful's review of UC if you can find it :D That is just hilarious ;)
http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2010
Check out page 2 in particular. ;)
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Only time will tell how all of this will end
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exactly. let's just hope it goes our way and not his.
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Well, the Source Code was Volitions to give away, so no trouble there.
Textures etc would have had to have been removed anyway.
As far as storyline is concerned, well, since we were deliberately kept in the dark about what happened next, none of us have follwed that, merely used it as a guideline, and extrapolated from it.
The only concern I have left is 'referring to the storyline'. If someone made a film with Cylons as the bad guys, you can garauntee that the owners of the BSG license would have something to say about it. However, since we do not make a profit from our endeavour, he has no grounds for legal proceedings then, it is no worse than 'fan fiction' :)
So no, I don't think we are in any danger from his posturing to be honest :)
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My God. This guy has got to be unstable. He actually tried to sue someone over at SA?! Who the hell does he think he is anyways?
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Originally posted by heretic
All this talk of pooling money to purchase the license...not possible guys. You need to either organize into a legitimate group, or into a corporation- you can't own a share in licensing.
Could HLP become a legitamate corp and buy the liscence? Or could we just buy it under Hlp's name?
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I see it as long as no money is exchanged he cant sue.
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Originally posted by Flipside
LOL I've made my position perfectly clear, I will not play this game. Knowing the nature of the hands that went into making it, and his opinion of his own customers.
And what if it turns out brilliant? (not much of a chance, but still a possiblility)
And seriusly, I would be pissed too if I had to digest several pages worth of insults aimed at me from people who don't know d*** about me.
I'm not saying he's a good guy, I'm not saying he's a smart guy, I'm not saying he's a brilliant programmer - I'm just saying that none of us knows practicly anything about him....
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Most people know enough, especially if they've seen him in action in other forums.
Believe me TrashMan, ALOT is known about DS.
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Makes us regret it? What he's going to do? Buy the FS IP just to spite us and ruin it in everyway possible? The man needs his valium.
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I still wouldn't play it Kara, I used to program, and I'd still like to try and learn some more modern languages than Z80. But there are some attitudes that programmers do not adopt if a programmer does a job simply to make money then he is in the wrong line of business.
Remember how hard Kazan worked to get the Network code stable? Or Bobboau constantly adjusting and perfecting specular and decals etc?
That is programming in my eyes, if you don't start off wanting to make the program a great one, you will get a buggy half-arsed attempt.
I would choose not to buy this game if it was the best Space Combat Sim ever made, something in the attitude displayed really hit a nerve in me, as I've said before, it's a small protest, but it's the only one I've got.
I'm not saying he is a good or bad guy, I know nothing about him personally. He's perfectly free to develop the code in any way he chooses if he owns the rights. But speaking from my experiences here, he is someone who brushes poorly against both the gamer and the programmer in me.
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(edit: deleted: See latest post)
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Well there is that possibility that another game company might counter his offer but I'm not holding my breath,.
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"He may not have a clue
And he may not have style
But everything he lacks
Well he makes up in denial"
-The Offspring
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I don't know, but it looks like he can screw us pretty good. I found this (http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html) on a quick net search. The way I read it, we're still in copyright violation even if we don't make a profit from it. Besides, what do you think would happen if he had his lawyer send an official letter to Gamespy saying that they're in copyright violation because they're hosting a site that's using his copyrighted names 'Freespace' and 'Vasudan'? Do you honestly think Gamespy would hire lawyers to fight it? I don't. I think HLP would be gone in a heartbeat.
We've got to make peace with this guy.
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Hey, how did I beat Anon in posting in this thread.
I didn't realized that, that he is lacking on spamming, Oh no wait, checks more threads... Typical :p
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Originally posted by Thorn
"He may not have a clue
And he may not have style
But everything he lacks
Well he makes up in denial"
-The Offspring
ROFL. I've never seen a better use of an Original Prankster quote :lol:
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I Just posted this on AVAULT (http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=005487&p=8#000176):
The reason to buy a franchise is to reach out to the existing market -- to tap into the built-in fan base and profitably extend it further. I can think of no other reason to buy the FreeSpace property but to tap into the massive potential of the game which has made many passionate about seeing a sequel.
As you acknowledged earlier in this thread:
Originally posted by Derek Smart [3000AD]:
[QB]Look, the VERY core of my business, RELIES on a fan base. I have and continue to, make a living from that. I have been at loggerheads with publishers because of that. When it comes to fans of my work, I do not - and repeat - do not, take it lightly. THAT is what YOU the FS community should be concerned about. Does this guy care about the game and people who buy/play it, or not? [/QB]
I'm sorry, Derek Smart. You are the WRONG person to continue the FreeSpace franchise. I'm not certain that you care about respecting ANY of your "fans" who disagree with your opinions. You shouldn't be suprised, you had to ask the question on this board in the first place --- would people buy a FreeSpace game you created?
The mere fact that the thread on this board and others has turned into a flame war and been locked down should be proof of the simple fact that the "value" in the FreeSpace property won't exist if you develop it. Your blanket dismissal of the (admittedly) rabid FreeSpace community at Hard Light Productions (HLP) (http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/hlp/) should at least give you some pause before you continue with your plans. Yes, FreeSpace 2 failed to adequately sell because Interplay decided to save cash by squeezing its marketing (which is why Volition Inc. SUED Interplay).
But those who bought FreeSpace 1/2 were touched by the storyline, the gameplay and the moddability of the game. I know this from experience, because for a long time I devoted a significant part of my life to mission reviews, mission design and continuing the search for the unanswered and interesting questions within the FreeSpace universe. I haven't been active for a while, so you couldn't consider me a "rabid" or "fundamentalist" fan. What I am is someone who loves the franchise, learned about it and tried to cultivate it by teaming up to expand the largest fan mission database and expand it into a community site (which evolved into the now closing Volition Watch (http://www.volitionwatch.com) before being replaced by the modders over at HLP). In fact, two of my missions were released on the FreeSpace 2 "Space Sim of the Year Edition." I knew the FreeSpace community and I knew the developers. They won't follow your lead -- because you make games based on what YOU want to do, based on your own unique "take no prisoners" and "damn the torpedoes, I'm doing it my way" attitude. And that's the wrong way to "develop" a franchise.
I'm not questioning your ability as a programmer, Derek. You COULD make a "fun" based flight sim, and I'd even try a demo of it to make up my mind whether to buy. But what I do question is whether you have the respect necessary to purchase the much-beloved FreeSpace franchise and contribute *constructively* to it. Develop what games what you will, but don't call it "FreeSpace." The name recognition you will receive from the title is meaningless when you destroy what makes the market -- those who love and want to see FreeSpace continue.
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Wow. You're kinda stupid, aintcha boy? Take a guy who goes berserk at the very suggestion of negative feedback and flame him in a thread where we've finally gotten him to cool down and concede that maybe we are not all Satanic retards from Canada or whatever, so that maybe we could get, y'know, a real dialogue about this and get some aspect of what we want?
Take the Avault post down, ****stick. And here's a handy hint- those around you flaming, go ahead and flame. Those around you acting restrained and civil? No flamey!
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I like your post, Zarathud
But the last time I tried to say that I was banned :blah:
:):yes:
:welcome:
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Hey guys, talking to my friend. He was over at the EgoSoft forums and the outrage reached them too. There is a rumor, just a rumor, that EgoSoft may try to outbid Derek Smart.
Not V, but it's something if it's true.
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The Developers of X2?
Well, that may be cool... maybe
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*sigh*
...Stryke speaks words of wisdom...let him do it...if he messes it up...we'll pretend it never happened...although...if it comes out...I still might buy it...
...might
*edit* Wow...Egosoft?...X2...saw a bit of X2...I liked the format and the look...the engine was well built too...I'd hope they get it.
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Considering the work that went into the latest patch for X2, it could be a very good thing. They made some VAST improvements and while Ego won't be making more patches, there are more coming.
They also made their game VERY moddable. A good thing if they can do the same for FS3.
*edit* Remember though, that's JUST a rumor.
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*edit* Whoops meant to edit
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Wow. You're kinda stupid, aintcha boy?
Take the Avault post down, ****stick. And here's a handy hint- those around you flaming, go ahead and flame. Those around you acting restrained and civil? No flamey!
Actually, I disagree. It has to be said. I said it intelligently. Just disagreeing isn't a flame. If Derek freaks out, he just proves my point (QED). And Derek can sue me all he wants. I'm a lawyer and I don't need to even have anyone on speed-dial. :D There is no reason everyone has to kiss Derek's ass because he overreacts.
And you obviously didn't read the entire thing. I hope I at least have some cred left in the FreeSpace community after helping to turn Xanadu's Mission Archive into Descent Chronicles and then Volition Watch. And thanks for the welcome back, flameboy Stryke 9. More fool you, if you have no idea who I am.
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Dare I say it?
Somehow, in some completely non-implicational way, I think I would laugh quite loudly if he were outbid by 'a bigger Ego' ;)
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:lol:
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Zarathud! you came!!!!
did you get that message I sent you(ICQ)?
I was about to try reaching you via your busness Email.
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Wow, I wish I was older, I would know when a new "old" freespacer came :p
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I 100% stand by my belief that Derek Smart is the wrong person for the community. You may have "calmed him down" for now, but Derek does things his own way. That's ok for *his* titles. That's NOT ok for a franchise.
I'll try a demo of any game Derek makes, just not when it's someone else's idea he's running his OWN way. He doesn't listen -- he flames back. That's not the way to deal with a property established by someone ELSE. All in all, I think Derek would only waste his money buying the FreeSpace license.
He should think about that. And if he doesn't, at least I can say that I told him so.
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Zarathud: Yo, my "cred" be fine, dis not be my "hood" no mo', nigga. I be doin' de job for some homies o' mine, dig?
And you be gottin' no clue who dis Derek hata be. So learn to speak ****ing English and rent a clue. The fact that I haven't been around for a while doesn't change the fact that you're a ****stick.
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[quote from Rictor]
Argue to learn, not to win."
I will never forget that, Rictor should have a talk with him :)
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I can't believe they're already, well, mocking you Zara. I'd register, except I have a serious issue with agreeing to something that is only available if the other party wants it to be available. (Incidentally - IS the license agreement legally binding?)
They're worse than us when someone mentions Freespace 3, or that they have this new, ultimate theory to Capella, etc etc.
All I can say is that if THIS (http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=005487&p=8#000179) is the kind of Freespace fan for the future Freespace, well, I'm glad that I've been stereotyped against them. Hey, I didn't even have to do something offensive to piss them off at me...that's a first. :D
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*agrees*
Was thinking the same thing
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Originally posted by StratComm
ROFL. I've never seen a better use of an Original Prankster quote :lol:
It's Pretty Fly, not Original Prankster! Get it right. :p
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My god. When I first started reading the thread, I thought he was generally interested in creating a good game with intense feedback from Volition and the Freespace community. But when I saw how he totally blew off the SCP people, then insulted the work and the members I was angry.
Why the hell doesn't THQ buy it and get Volition to make it again? I'm sure they could advertise it better than Interplay. (Or is Volition even still owned by THQ. I haven't followed it at all very much until a friend sent me a link to that thread)
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Coolmon: Context, son, context. Where have you heard the word "****stick" recently? ;)
That said, honored to be contrasted against you. :p
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That's Stryke posing as Ryer. Because by mocking me he's proving his maturity. Oh, and encouraging me NOT to flame, dontcha know?
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Stryke, you tard... :rolleyes:
Welcome back.... kinda :p
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Originally posted by LOA--Paul
Why the hell doesn't THQ buy it and get Volition to make it again? I'm sure they could advertise it better than Interplay. (Or is Volition even still owned by THQ. I haven't followed it at all very much until a friend sent me a link to that thread)
Fire sale prices are much better when there is a forced sale. As long as Interplay still breathes because their creditors haven't shut them down, they could always say NO. Or use Derek as a stalking horse to raise the bids by companies who you'd think actually COULD afford to pay decent money for the property.
My recollection is that Volition always had the first right to develop the next FreeSpace. So Derek's got to deal with a little legal niceties before he does ANYTHING. It's not a done deal.
Derek wants a lot of things, and they don't always happen. Not a suprise, he's not exactly a "people" person.
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Yes. Because everyone finished with the flames and Bob and Thunder actually got Smart to chill out and talk like a human being and then you come rollin' in like your redundant flame post of the sort that caused him to screech and turn green and fly around on a broomstick before is gonna resolve the whole ****in' issue. Which pissed me off, as I'd rather not have to help you monkeys duck a Derek Smart lawsuit, though I will if you're really so incompetent that that becomes necessary. When I'm pissed, I say **** a lot. Got it?
Next time, be best if you read at least as much text as you plan to post. In which case, you'd know he'll fly off the handle and everyone'll have to start over again because of you. I doubt my damage control in distancing from you is gonna do enough. You could have done the kindness of deleting your idiotic goddamned post so's he doesn't see it, as it's already been done a dozen times at Avault with damned little success, but I suppose you're not bright enough to help yourself and everyone else when you could feel like The Big Man for flaming some jackhole you'll never meet via text on an open forum. A day after everyone else has done the same damned thing, mostly more eloquently and interestingly.
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FAMILY REUNION! :D
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I'd like to point out that I haven't heard or seen anything from Mr Smart since yesterday. So how do we know exactly that we have "calmed him down?" Unless someone has gotten an e-mail that I wasn't aware of. Then again, this whole mess is moving way too fast to keep up with.
Oh, and my bad on the lyrics thing. I should know better :rolleyes:
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I'd take the contrast between his posts in that thread in response to Thunder, which are relatively coherent and, uh, sane, and the ones he posted earlier here to be an encouraging one.
I might be wrong, but either way stupid, redundant flaming isn't exactly going to get him to suddenly cave and say "I give in, you damned kids have warmed my heart- tell you what, I'll buy the license and give it to Volition for free!" Diplomacy may in fact have a chance in hell of convincing him to at the least listen to fan input sometimes and getting him to drop any frivolous anti-Ferrium lawsuit he may be planning (which he could, as I've mentioned, win simply by virtue of the fact that it'd be too expensive to fight him), and I'd rather try something that's a risk than something that's a proven (and really rather obvious, should you care to think about it) failure. In the entire history of mankind, nobody has ever acted like less of a jerk because of unsolicited input on what a jerk he's being.
And, y'know, he's right, from a certain standpoint. He doesn't have to listen to a word we say, and people here did treat him somewhat unfairly- though as I mentioned before that was understandable to an extent. It's our job to make him want to listen to us.
And agreed. It's all gotten pretty confusing. Still, interesting, eh?
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I hope he realizes now that there more people that are not going to buy it, than there are...
But, it wouldn't seem so since he didn't learn after getting bad ratings on every game he has made
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JD: I'm pretty sure he means it when he says he doesn't care what anyone else thinks. It's not the ideal way to run a standard business, perhaps, but it is the only way to be Derek Smart, and evidently he's gotten enough money from being Derek Smart to do things like buy hundred-thousand-dollar game licenses on a lark.
And it's been pointed out to him, multiple times, that he's driving some potential fans away. It, uh, didn't seem to get anyone anywhere.
Let's be honest with ourselves, anyway, most people here would buy it out of curiosity no matter what. Or at least download it.
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:(
If he gets it, I will cry and then learn to code
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Let's be honest with ourselves, anyway, most people here would buy it out of curiosity no matter what. Or at least download it.
I would get the Demo and find out someway to get it, without paying.... if it's good
Mmmm... suprnova
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Originally posted by jdjtcagle
I hope he realizes now that there more people that are not going to buy it, than there are...
But, it wouldn't seem so since he didn't learn after getting bad ratings on every game he has made
I don't think it matters to him. Think about it, his games have been reviewed as sub-par at best and many people hate them. Yet he always seems to make enough to start another game, and another, and another.
His fanbase will support him even if they've never played Freespace. Believe me, he won't loose any sleep over people not buying it. Ever read the thread on this over at his forum? It's at www.3000ad.com and under the Games and Gaming section near the bottom of the forum index. His hardcore fans would buy his feces in a box if he sold it to them.
People have said that they'd never buy the game every time he's made a BC game and yet he always makes enough profit to build another.
Edit:
Here, a direct link to the thread. http://www.3000ad.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=000352
Don't bother registereing and posting in it, he bans everyone who pretty much disagrees with anything he says. You'd be wasting your time.
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Indeed. It sounds like a BC game to me, too. But, y'know, why not let 'im try it, so long as he doesn't interfere with anything that goes on here- it can't hurt, and even if it turns out bad it just might revive enough interest in the title to get someone more to taste to buy it off of him.
Though he hasn't actually bought it yet. This all might still come out to nothing, who knows.
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Stryke 9, disagreeing isn't flaming. If you can't understand that, nothing further to be said. And you can't live in fear of ever hurting someone's feelings if that person isn't reasonable to disagreement.
My point isn't redundant -- my point is that Derek is not likely to do well with buying a franchise. Derek does his own thing, and gets upset if people disagree with him. That's not going to be a successful attitude to revive FreeSpace. It ruins the value of the title he's trying to buy. That is VERY different from the other points which questioned Derek's ability to make games, his direction for the game, whether he should get input from the community, his fitness as a human being, etc. etc. And rushing off to pout about his mistreatment isn't a very mature or constructive at all. So, I consider my point proven. QED
My point isn't stupid. It's thought out, and logical. If you'd READ it rather than worry about the reaction to it. The points are made using Derek's own words, economic logic and with my credibility as someone knowing the FreeSpace license. And I've been reading Derek Smart threads SINCE the BK3000AD debacle, most recently on Gone Gold.
Don't sell the FreeSpace license short. There may be other buyers, and the fat lady hasn't sung yet (bankruptcy proceedings for Interplay have not started). Derek Smart is not our only hope, so don't sell out to the Devil just because he's there. Don't eat yellow snow. :ick: Have a nice day. :D
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Originally posted by HeX
Don't bother registereing and posting in it, he bans everyone who pretty much disagrees with anything he says. You'd be wasting your time.
Hell, look what he posted in that thread based on the fact that someone was concerned about what heard:
"I'm not sure what I should be upset the most about
That YOU would, without giving me the COURTESY of the benefit of the doubt, would ASSUME that I would make a post like that.
That you had the audacity to still post it here.
That you were FOOLISH enough to not pull up BOTH my actual Blues profile (click on a post by me) and that trolling imposter's.
I have posted in the thread and reported it to Blues. As someone else just posted there, that person is an imposter and is not me.
You, Fractux, have earned a slot in my bad book, from this day onward."
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Originally posted by HeX
I don't think it matters to him. Think about it, his games have been reviewed as sub-par at best and many people hate them. Yet he always seems to make enough to start another game, and another, and another.
His fanbase will support him even if they've never played Freespace. Believe me, he won't loose any sleep over people not buying it. Ever read the thread on this over at his forum? It's at www.3000ad.com and under the Games and Gaming section near the bottom of the forum index. His hardcore fans would buy his feces in a box if he sold it to them.
People have said that they'd never buy the game every time he's made a BC game and yet he always makes enough profit to build another.
Edit:
Here, a direct link to the thread. http://www.3000ad.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=000352
Don't bother registereing and posting in it, he bans everyone who pretty much disagrees with anything he says. You'd be wasting your time.
I wonder if I would get banned... be right back :D
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Jetmech - Yeah, and THAT was by accident. The guy thought an imposter was Derek and Derek flew off the handle for a mistake.
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I know, doesnt have much tolerance for mistakes, does he? :doubt:
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Typical :rolleyes:
http://www.3000ad.com/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=agree
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Well regardless, if he gets the FS license, he gets it. I won't be playing the game if he makes it. Not unless there's some fanbase or Volition design team input. Even then it's only a maybe.
It's pretty much out of our hands.
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Zarathud: I don't plan on selling out to the Devil, but I don't plan on courting his worse attentions unless I have to, either. Like I said- diplomacy, man. It's been demonstrated before that, logical or not, he doesn't respond well (to say the least) to negative-toned feedback. He isn't going to read your post and think "Hey, hmm, he has a point, this is a lot more of a stretch than my Battlecruiser games, and maybe I should wait around for a buyer who's more like Volition". He's going to read it and regard it as a flame, and go nuts. Hence, for the purposes of that thread your post is retermed as a flame- it's inflammatory, hence a flame, duh.
At the end of the day, this is not nearly enough of a "big" issue for an honor battle or for much to be enjoyed out of moral victories- ultimately who's right and who's wrong is of little importance- it's who's left, and who gets what. Maybe I'm speaking too soon, but I suspect most people here would rather have the freedom to continue as normal without harassment from some guy with spurious legal leverage over us than have the cold comfort of knowing at the end of the day we were right and he was wrong. It's a bit of a reach to hope that justice will prevail on its own or someone'll swoop down and save us from Smart, so we might as well get to work saving ourselves.
Honestly, I'm not sure what you're even trying to achieve here. If you've read his stuff before, you know he's got his own, very different, perception of the realities around him than you do, and isn't going to take your points seriously. There's no case I've seen where adopting a negative, argumentative tone with him (which you have done, whether it's flaming or not) has done anything more than make him freak and stop listening. There's not any way I can look at it where working him up into a lather is conducive towards getting something, anything we want out of him. Hence... why? Why not adopt a more diplomatic approach that he might respond to?
Maybe you're missing the context, I dunno. This is not some ultimate battle between Good and Evil. Honestly, what he's doing is little more than what all those little kids who plagued the VBB did, with their plans to create a highly subjective Freespace 3 that doesn't seem particularly appealing as so. The Freespace mods can still continue (probably). There's still the infinitely remote chance of someone else coming along and picking up the license. Making trouble for the community in the short term over what's really kind of an absurd point isn't worth it.
Should he express determination to continue on the path of opposition to HLP or the greater mass of the Freespace fanbase, yes, naturally things will change. I'll fight, when I have to- hell, might as well, all my worthwhile causes are dead. But it's not that time yet.
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"his dreams are no match for your reality" :D
But if we fight, we could easily turned that around for us ;)
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Uh, how are you exactly planning to do that?
Short of buying the license out from under him, which effort is getting nowhere fast (you people really need to learn coordination), there ain't much you can do. Piss him off, fine, he buys the license and starts trying to sue people. If he manages to pin down any project leaders (which I'm trying to develop plans to make as difficult as possible, just in case), he can very literally shut that part of the community down, 'cos nobody can afford thousands of dollars in lawyer fees to fight a cease-and-desist. Manage to escape the Wrath of Smart clean, fine, you've gained nothing, and HLP is now on the less favorable side of the law, loses its Gamespy hosting, and is forced to move to multiple locations internationally.
Like I said, fighting is possible, but the HLP community only stands to lose by doing so (unless you manage to raise the proper funds- by all means, go to). Hence, it should be put off as long as is humanly possible.
Believe me, I'm itching to **** with somebody, and since all the political battles I can tolerate, much less get behind, have been lost, I've got a lot of creative energy for this sorta thing stored up. But still. Bad idea.
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Originally posted by heretc
his threatening of suing for IP- that's complete and utter nonsense. You can only go after someone using that if they are profiting from the property. A lot of companies like to go after and threaten people, however the Fair Use Act allows people to use IP for nonprofit reasons.
Just thought I'd point out that post on the "suing" matter.
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Yes, that's my point. He can't win a case, but he doesn't need to. This is how most lawsuits are won, the party with less money can't afford to keep up the fight drops out, and the other one wins by default. He's thinking of buying the damned FreeSpace license for kicks- if he's tenacious enough, and any dodges attempted fail, he could drag the issue to the court phase, and then the victim would lose. Do you think lawyers come free? Do you think if you can't afford a defense the judge just says "Oh, all right, he's down for the count. Let's have a truce, kids!"?
Who, exactly, is going to spend most of their year's income on a protracted legal battle over the right to mod a game?
Also, Fair Use has been argued many times before, and the final decision isn't always in the nonprofit group's favor. However, in this case it won't even get that far.
Honestly, I suspect the lawsuit thing is just him pointing out that if he gets the license he could **** HLP back, front, and sideways, and there's not a damned thing the lot of you could do. Which is perfectly true in a number of ways, and a point worth paying attention to- he has some chips in this game, or at least some potential chips, that the FS fanbase doesn't. Hence why I'm advocating playing nice. He might not do it, but the chance is there- and what exactly is there to lose by trying to keep the dialogue civil anyway? Show me something, besides "overinflated HLPer egoes", and we'll see.
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Just trying to give hope to the people ya over-critical prick. (J/K ;) )
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Aight, sorry. You're right about the legal thing, though, and I'm pretty sure if it comes to that I and any others with some familiarity with the law can prevent it from reaching the court stage. I just wanna make sure it's perfectly clear this isn't some damn argument over where the Klingons would beat the Shivans in a fight or whatever it is you people slap at each other about when I'm not around to start fights.
As you were. :D
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See now that's a bit more upbeat! :D
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You know it's rather funny but when this whole business started I pictured a rally at HLP like that one scene in Master and Commander.
Captain Jack: Do you want to see a guillotine in Piccadilly!?
Crew: NO!
Captain Jack: Do you want to call that little turd Bonaparte your king!?
Crew: NO!
Captain Jack Aubrey: Do you want your children to sing the Marseillaise!?
Crew: NO!
:D
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Dear ****ing Christ on a stick, this has gone waaay too far. Stryke, welcome back (:D) - you make a bloody good point. DS has more money than this community can ever hope to raise, so if he wants the franchise, he'll get it, along with any legal bollocks he wants to attach to it.
I suggest that we stop *****ing about what DS is or isn't allowed to do, and just leave it until we have some decent idea what the hell he's actually going to do with the FS franchise. If it's good, then buy the new game. If not, then ignore it. Regardless, the SCP and Ferrium should continue as normal, and we should disregard anything that doesn't come from :V: people, if not from :V: itself.
Let's all calm down about this, yeah? :)
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Gamespot has this issue in their latest rumor control. They say that it seems bogus...http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/07/16/news_6102932.html (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/07/16/news_6102932.html)
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I get a "cannot connect to server". Bogus? How so? Derek Smart posted about this on his own forums so I fail to see how it's bogus.
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fixed link...
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Hmm...well I still fail to see how it's bogus. Their information is incorrect. He stated later in the thread that he "fully intends" to persue purchase of the license.
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like i mentioned before, the liscense will go to the highest bidder. so somebody like volition, hell even Digital anvil buying it out from under him may be a distinct possibility..
anybody want to start a petition to THQ(or even Volition) to buy the rights for freespace?..
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Well like I said before there's already a rumor that EgoSoft will try for it.
And I believe Volition was e-mailed.
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Turnsky: Might wanna try helping getting that fund set up, instead. THQ/whover might be able to ignore fans demanding a new FS2 from them (in fact, history shows they will)- they won't ignore a significant group of people offering them money to buy it with.
And it's probable that at least certain parties at Volition are interested anyway, it's just, y'know, a matter of not having any dosh to compete with. But we'll see, I suppose.
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Originally posted by Turnsky
like i mentioned before, the liscense will go to the highest bidder. so somebody like volition, hell even Digital anvil buying it out from under him may be a distinct possibility..
anybody want to start a petition to THQ(or even Volition) to buy the rights for freespace?..
What year do you live in Turnsky? Digital Anvil went poof in...what...2000?
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*breaks silence*
HLP is getting a lot of publicity, for all new people welcome :)
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captured by Singh:
FSO and Bob's High Poly Diemos
(http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v107/anandraj/diemos2-5.jpg)
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:lol: nice one, jd!
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I know, shameless pimp :p
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Originally posted by jdjtcagle
I know, shameless pimp :p
Its ok, cause Bobbaou's doin' the same :lol:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=69354&start=50 (http://www.penny-arcade.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=69354&start=50)
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:blah: oh teh ridges
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I suggest posting the whole story in http://www.pvpforums.com
I lurk over there and notice that there seem to be a handful of people who love Freespace over there.
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Bah, another pimp and no ridges ;)
Model by Nico and map by Dabrain
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/fs+/HTLperseus2.jpg)
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/fs+/HTLperseus3.jpg)
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/fs+/HTLperseus4.jpg)
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:D oh teh polys
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Yes beautiful indeed. Now if someone would hire a sculptor to do a 1:48 diecast of the Perseus :)
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Originally posted by Zarathud
...I'm a lawyer...
We needed you for something, uhh... ok
from EULA:
You may make copies of the Software
for your personal noncommercial home entertainment use and to give to friends and acquaintances on a no cost noncommercial basis.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now the definition for friends is people matches people like these in forums, we know more about some of us more than our actual friends do...
So can we distribute Freespace for free? :D
Flipside can help me here...
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Turnsky: Might wanna try helping getting that fund set up, instead. THQ/whover might be able to ignore fans demanding a new FS2 from them (in fact, history shows they will)- they won't ignore a significant group of people offering them money to buy it with.
And it's probable that at least certain parties at Volition are interested anyway, it's just, y'know, a matter of not having any dosh to compete with. But we'll see, I suppose.
glad to, who's taking care of the funding?
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Originally posted by Turnsky
glad to, who's taking care of the funding?
Go visit the groggy forum, further discussion about stuff like that is there.
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Originally posted by jdjtcagle
captured by Singh:
FSO and Bob's High Poly Diemos
(http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v107/anandraj/diemos2-5.jpg)
Hehehe....I should probably try to get that video back online sometime soon ;7
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*starts drooling on self uncontrollably at the pic* :eek:
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Question:
Apart from well wishes, has anyone made efforts to contact other companies over the issue?
If we make more potential buyers aware of it, there are greater chances of getting the thing in the right hands...
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Zarathud! Boy, it's good to see that old name. Please stand by us at this time - your presence is appreciated.
For everyone still reading this thread, I urge you to read my address to the community (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,25205.0.html). Thanks.
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A well written, well spoken piece as usual Setekh. Good too see somethings haven't changed since I left. :)
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Are you posting high poly model pictures because you want Smart to see what his team should overtake? I think Mr. Smart gave up visiting this forum.
By the way, a new FreeSpace game would be far more beautiful than FSO. The prior sentence is not supposed to offend neither the SCP nor their program. I simply wanted to give stress on that a new game engine would overtake and even run rings around the old but modified engine.
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Actually I think they were just pimping off the SCP and what sort of things the community has done.
You have to admit, it's pretty impressive for a group of modders. :)
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Originally posted by TopAce
Are you posting high poly model pictures because you want Smart to see what his team should overtake? I think Mr. Smart gave up visiting this forum.
By the way, a new FreeSpace game would be far more beautiful than FSO. The prior sentence is not supposed to offend neither the SCP nor their program. I simply wanted to give stress on that a new game engine would overtake and even lap the old but modified engine.
That's what we have Ferrium for. When the modifications to the current engine reach its limits, Ferrium takes over ;7
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Of, course, since 3.6, even I trust the SCP team(however I still do not worship them on the level the others do).
Originally posted by Singh
That's what we have Ferrium for. When the modifications to the current engine reach its limits, Ferrium takes over ;7
And who knows if Ferrium will ever be completed?
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Originally posted by TopAce
Are you posting high poly model pictures because you want Smart to see what his team should overtake? I think Mr. Smart gave up visiting this forum.
By the way, a new FreeSpace game would be far more beautiful than FSO. The prior sentence is not supposed to offend neither the SCP nor their program. I simply wanted to give stress on that a new game engine would overtake and even run rings around the old but modified engine.
No, it's to counteract the insults Derek Smart was directing towards the efforts of the SCP & community. Basically so people know why HLP exists, and what we've done to keep Freespace alive.
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Aha!
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Originally posted by TopAce
Are you posting high poly model pictures because you want Smart to see what his team should overtake? I think Mr. Smart gave up visiting this forum.
By the way, a new FreeSpace game would be far more beautiful than FSO. The prior sentence is not supposed to offend neither the SCP nor their program. I simply wanted to give stress on that a new game engine would overtake and even run rings around the old but modified engine.
Like freelancer or X2 compared to FSO? No, wait...
:p
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Originally posted by TopAce
Are you posting high poly model pictures because you want Smart to see what his team should overtake? I think Mr. Smart gave up visiting this forum.
By the way, a new FreeSpace game would be far more beautiful than FSO. The prior sentence is not supposed to offend neither the SCP nor their program. I simply wanted to give stress on that a new game engine would overtake and even run rings around the old but modified engine.
Umm, have you ever seen any of his games, I'm not saying that graphics make a game but when your playing a game that's just released and manages to look five years old, you should worry.
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Hey, are we receiving new members a lot?
If so, make some huge "Welcome to HLP" announcement, with links to kara's FAQ, wiki, pics of SCP and so on.
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Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
Its ok, cause Bobbaou's doin' the same :lol:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=69354&start=50 (http://www.penny-arcade.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=69354&start=50)
Check the first page of this topic. As soon as I realised that this topic was getting links for other sites I changed my original post so that it pimped the SCP :D
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Mr. Derek Smart.
I must congratulate you.
You have done what few people could have thought possible; what fewer people could have even imagined. For this, I credit you.
What have you done? Quite simple, really. You have given this community what may be the greatest gift since the release of Freespace.
Previously, in our complacency, we would have never imagined Freespace 3; we may have had hope, but in our hearts, we knew it would be an impossibility. But that's what we had mods and campaigns for, to expand on the legacy left behind with Freespace 2. We knew that we would, could, not be able to reach Freespace 3. Despite knowing that we couldn't get there, we knew that we could try. As such, the efforts and the mods came about, resulting in the many releases and works in progresses you see today.
Yet, before today, I could safely say that as a whole, the community was actually waining a bit. People were suffering RL commitments, and a few mods had faltered, while others were going on slower than usual.
Then you came along Mr. Smart. I can safely say you changed everything, turning the entire scenario on it's head, holding before us the tantalizing prospect of Freespace 3. It was something we only dreamed about, something we had put on the back burner of hope for ages, and now you promised us to make it a reality.
But, Mr. Smart, I must say this, and say this honestly. You did not promise Freespace 3 for us. From the second paragraph onwards, from your first post on this forum, I can safely say that you have no intention of making Freespace 3 as it truly should be. You have no intention of making Freespace 3 for anyone others than yourself and the fan base from your Battlecruiser series. On top of that, you come here, where you have absolutely no bearing or standing and then threaten us, to shut down and destroy nearly five years of effort that we have put in to this community.
For that, I condemn you. But you have made it a point that you care little what we say, so I won't bother with this point.
But rather, I still congratulate you Mr. Smart. You have given me something, something far more valuable than Freespace 3 shall ever be. I will not speak for the rest of the community here; I will let them speak for themselves if they agree with me or not, it is their choice to do so.
You have given me (and most like all of us) Purpose Mr. Smart.
It is this purpose that now Drives us; guides us and even binds us, Mr. Smart. It is this purpose, that connects us; Accross nations, oceans, the planet and yes, even Religion. It is now this purpose that has activated this place to a hieght never seen before. We have no intention of standing still, and nor shall we ever Mr. Smart. You have mobilized us, and the activity I see over the previous two days is greater than that of the whole previous year. For this, I thank you.
But, my purpose in in all of this is actually quite simple, Mr. Smart. You have threatened to crush us out, and have declared every intention to shut us out from Freespace 3. As mentioned before, I do not speak for the whole Freespace community here, but I do believe the general attitude is correct when I say that It is now my purpose, my every intention, that you never, ever, ever shut this place down.
Make Freespace 3 if you wish, I will not stop you. Market it and make it a big success if you wish; if you succeed, my apology letter will be the first on your desk. Even if you ignore the community as much as you want; fine, its your problem, not mine.
But, success or not, if you even try shutting us down and discredit the achievements we have made here, you are in for trouble, to say the least.
Thank you Mr. Smart, and have a good day.
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Needless effort, Singh, Mr. Smart is not visiting this forum any longer. but it is a good read! :yes:
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Originally posted by TopAce
Needless effort, Singh, Mr. Smart is not visiting this forum any longer. but it is a good read! :yes:
he isnt?
It doesn't matter. I've aired out my thoughts, do with it what you wish.
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Not posted here for a long time. Been busy over at Egosoft.
But hey - you have my support...
I read the entire thing and the one thing that keeps games alive throughout problems is the fanbase, and games like Freespace if they are going to be made by someone else other than say Volition, is the fact that the person or people that make it need to listen to the fanbase.
You can not shut communities down, if you do - they move, and they get bigger. But HLP is a great community and well known. - And has mine and no doubt a lot more peoples support who do not post here but are aware of the situation.
Good Luck guys
Jon Handby
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Thanks for the support :)
I've made my opinion clear about the whole thing, I've been far less than impressed with Mr Smart's behaviour and attitude throughout this entire ordeal.
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Originally posted by Jon Handby
Not posted here for a long time. Been busy over at Egosoft.
But hey - you have my support...
I read the entire thing and the one thing that keeps games alive throughout problems is the fanbase, and games like Freespace if they are going to be made by someone else other than say Volition, is the fact that the person or people that make it need to listen to the fanbase.
You can not shut communities down, if you do - they move, and they get bigger. But HLP is a great community and well known. - And has mine and no doubt a lot more peoples support who do not post here but are aware of the situation.
Good Luck guys
Jon Handby
this, is comforting indeed, to know that we have the support from a few people from within the industry itself.. :nod: and hopefully more will lend their support to the cause..:)
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Yay! :)
Hehehe :D
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Originally posted by Derek Smart
In fact, the first thing I'm going to do is remove the beam weapons from the game, as I find that they have NO place in the next Freespace game. Oh, and yeah, no joystick controls either. The keyboard and mouse is just fine as joysticks are ancient and just cater to a niche group of games.
waht.
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Singh: One thing went through my mind when I read that..."Agent Smith would've been proud!"
Well said.
And Egosoft...HERE?!! dude...this is getting good...
*pulls up a recliner with pop-corn and drink, and watches the show.*
*Edit: just saw that post above mine. Outraged...to say the least... */edit*
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Where'd you get that from?
Its probably some 'tard registered on his name acting stupid. Derek's real name on this board is DSmart.
Seriously, if it is someone being dumb, this doesn't help us guys.
EDIT: Directed towards Blaise's quote.
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Ulcers gents. Watch your ulcers.
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He's going to make another Daikatana...
*thinks about suggesting Mr. Smart to acquire the Duke Nukem brand and develop Duke Nukem forever*
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Originally posted by Singh
Mr. Derek Smart.
Wot a load of rubbish. But you should be congratulated for the effort though.
Anyway, the reason I came here is to make something clear. I don't like being libeled. I don't like being misinterpreted nor misquoted. I don't like being challenged needlessly.
This AVault post (http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005485;p=6#000134) is the ONLY place where I mentioned ANYTHING about legal action. And it was ONLY in response to Derek Meek's previous post in that same thread.
Here, I will quote it again.
I've seen your infantile posts on HLP and the notion that arguing with an idiot will end up getting you down to their level, fits you like a glove.
Word of warning. People are already setting themselves up to get banned (I think one may have already been banned). There is a very low tolerance threshold around here for the type of behavior you and your [HLP] kinds have displayed here. Unlike that lawless cesspit at HLP, these forums are actually moderated. Healthy debates are welcome. Flames are not.
Let me assure you of one thing that you can go to sleep with tonite. I have FULL intentions of getting this license. If I DO get it, you and your teenny leetle friends on your Ferrous Oxide project, are effectively, shutdown because I don't piss around when it comes to IP properties. You would do well to ask around. I've sued publishers for less and I have attorneys around the world, literally on speed dial.
Now, I will leave you with that thought, as I retire for the evening.
You will eventually come to regret this day. Mark my words.
Only a braindead idiot would take that post to mean that I'm planning on taking legal action on anyone and without cause or reason.
My point was merely as it pertains to the use of the Freespace license and it is a stance that ANY purchaser of the Freespace license would take. Basically, if someone buys the Freespace license, it becomes their property. That basically means that you can't do ANYTHING with it. And you certainly cannot create a Freespace game from it. This has NOTHING to do with Freespace2 mods, though if a company really wants to, it CAN prevent their creation as well.
When Volition released the source code and tools to the FS2 codebase, they put in the public domain and you ladies need to go and actually READ the conditions of its use.
My post to Derek Meek was merely to point out that IF you folks continue along this path of action, I have NO incentive to let you use ANY aspect of that license if I bought it. NONE. Sure, you are all welcome to put your pennies together and fight me. Good luck with that because you CLEARLY have NO clue who you're dealing with.
That is all I came here to say. So please stop spreading stupid nonsense (such as this crap over at Blues (http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=50097) about me using HLP and such nonsense) or it will just end up making me even more pissed. I'm NOT and NEVER have been a very forgiving person when it comes to those who go out of their way to harrass and libel me. Believe me, I'm the LAST person you folks want as an adversary. You just don't know it yet.
Most games thrive on their communities and I NEVER said ANYTHING about shutting out fans. My point is simple, the actions of the HLP majority has tarnished the reputation of THIS particular Freespace fanbase and thats all there is to it. There a THOUSANDS of other Freespace fans around the world who are neither part of HLP nor ever heard of them. You, don't be complacent and conceited in thinking that HLP is the end all and be all of the Freespace fanbase. Even if that were the case, NOBODY in the right minds, given the events of the past few days, would want to make a Freespace3 game.
As you were.
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
Where'd you get that from?
Its probably some 'tard registered on his name acting stupid. Derek's real name on this board is DSmart.
Seriously, if it is someone being dumb, this doesn't help us guys.
Adrenaline Vault forums. Check the new FS3 thread there.
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Edited by myself to a more mundane tounge below.
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Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
Wot a load of rubbish. But you should be congratulated for the effort though.
[/b]
Such dismissal; such ignorance. At least you took time to read through it, so Thank you.
Believe me, I'm the LAST person you folks want as an adversary. You just don't know it yet.
As you were.
Wrong. We are the LAST people you want as an adversary either Mr. Smart. You don't seem to get it either; pity really, hand-in-hand, we could make this a success never seen before, but circumstances and actions from both sides will make this impossible.
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
I'm tired of beating around the bush.
Derek.
You're an asshole.
Don't feed the troll
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Mr. Smart,
may we inquiry you on some technical question which would be involved in the event you acquire the licence?
Thanks.
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EDIT: Trying to keep it civil [UT].
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
I'm tired of beating around the bush.
Derek.
You're an asshole.
Gee, you had to beat around the bush to come up with that? You're not very bright are you? :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Zarax
Mr. Smart,
may we inquiry you on some technical question which would be involved in the event you acquire the licence?
Thanks.
Sorry, but I really can't discuss such things when I don't even have the license. However, a post (http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005487;p=9#000212) I just made on AVault may be of interest to you.
btw, for you overly gullible fools, the part about the beam weapons and joystick was sarcasm in order to make a point to the person I was responding to.
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UT, please cool down...
Weren't going anywhere this way...
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EDIT: Taking advice of others and trying not to instigate flame war.
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Originally posted by Jon Handby
Not posted here for a long time. Been busy over at Egosoft.
But hey - you have my support...
Jon... great to see you dude, missed your presence around these parts. Thanks for the support.
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'Kay, people, please, let it go.
Bad form and all that, wot wot.
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I edited my posts.
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Heh, this clearly won't get us anywhere.
Maybe the most productive approach would be just to agree to disagree, let everyone keep his/her own views on the matter.
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[Removed due to obsolescence.]
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kv, I removed the stuff in my post, please remove yours.
EDIT: Thanks.
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Lace it with arsenic if you must.
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Look, if the guy wants to make fs3, fair play if he get's the license. I don't want to buy it, esp considering his plans for it. However, what does bother me is his rumblings about legal action and such.
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Hi, Derek, I'm Setekh - co-founder (with Kalfireth, whom I believe you've met already over at AV) and project leader of this place.
I am respectfully requesting that you do not allow yourself to be incensed over whatever is upsetting you here. I believe you are mature enough to walk past this; even to turn from your present direction, make amends with us (as this community is willing at least in part to do with you), and have a positive conversation about the fate of FreeSpace. This is all we are interested in, as is the reason behind the strong reaction (right or wrong) you have found here and at numerous other sites. It represents a desire to see the best for the game and the community - though that desire is liable to disagree with others.
We are not a lawless cesspit. I invite you to stay and see that this is so. And, being the capable mature man you are, converse with us positively on this matter.
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Originally posted by vyper
Look, if the guy wants to make fs3, fair play if he get's the license. I don't want to buy it, esp considering his plans for it. However, what does bother me is his rumblings about legal action and such.
Well, i'm biting my tongue for sake of,er, some reason or other.
But we possibly find grounds for a libel counter action, RE his calling of HLP a cesspit frequented by 'infantile' members. Tenuous, granted, but no less justified than that which we could be / have been threatened with.
Certainly GS could have complaint at their site being criticised in a wide variety of posts in various news groups (linking to quoted site), which they could probably claim as having damaged their reputation by consequence (amongst other things).
Either way, given the geographical distribution of HLPs' members, I seriously doubt we individually would have anything to worry about from legal terms.
EDIT; and what Steak said.
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Perhaps it would be a good idea to start a new heavily-moderated thread where Mr. Smart and the community can discuss the design of elements in a potential FS3?
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Seeing as how I've been a FS follower for some time (since it was first released) I can see both sides of the fence. The people who enjoy your games, and haven't played FS, want you to continue doing what you've done with your games. However, FS and FS2, are different. The game is story driven, you can't have the game without knowing what happens, every little thing needs to be considered. And I read that you are (or have) contacted Volition to see if you can acquire the notes from the original writers and developers of FS. Which is excellent news, my only fear is that something little would be left out...and we'd be left hanging.
Now...before I go flying off the handle at some of your...recent...ideas let me make this clear as anyone can. Without using caps-lock:
1: Anti-fighter and Anti-cap ship beams are a must for FS3.
Reason: The GTVA made beams to counter the Lucifers super shield, which was invulnerable to all known conventional weapons in FS1. (Although Inferno *check the mods in the main forum index* has cap-ship torpedos...but it's a mod...therefore doesn't count as canon, but it shows that beams and torps are a deadly combination...just a heads up.)
2: It's a flight sim game. no joystick support and you're crippling the space-sim genre even more than it is so far.
3: Use help from us. The FS community. Most of us, live, eat and sleep FS1 and FS2. Not using us would be like not asking Volition for help with the main idea. (it'd also give you an idea as to what the buyers and gamers want in the next (final maybe?) installment.)
Now, I for one, am thankful that FS3 might be a reality...just...use the resources that we have...and build upon that...don't ruin one of the best games ever.
When Volition released the source code and tools to the FS2 codebase, they put in the public domain and you ladies need to go and actually READ the conditions of its use.
The source code means that we can do, almost what ever we want with it...(looks to the source code team)...doesn't it?
My post to Derek Meek was merely to point out that IF you folks continue along this path of action, I have NO incentive to let you use ANY aspect of that license if I bought it. NONE. Sure, you are all welcome to put your pennies together and fight me. Good luck with that because you CLEARLY have NO clue who you're dealing with.
We're people too you know? And we're also buyers and gamers like you (read that you played AVP2 recently, had any online play experience? If so, game on sometime?). Just remember who you're deal with. And...another thing...we'd get a piece of the license too? How would that work out?
That is all I came here to say. So please stop spreading stupid nonsense (such as this crap over at Blues about me using HLP and such nonsense) or it will just end up making me even more pissed. I'm NOT and NEVER have been a very forgiving person when it comes to those who go out of their way to harrass and libel me. Believe me, I'm the LAST person you folks want as an adversary. You just don't know it yet.
Oi...Put the guns down...We're gamers like you. I saw what little light was in this situation...I'm saying Good luck and Godspeed with your endevour. Also...another thing...don't make the GTVA Colossus 2...unless it can actually kill something...and look good while doing it. :thepimp:
Again, Good luck and Godspeed, Derek! :yes:
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"I'm not here to win any hearts, blow any minds, organize cookouts, take long walks in the park or pass around the walm milk." Then what the flip does this hack want Freespace for? I say this community just keeps on with the Freespace upgrade project - he can't do anything legally, since the source code was released. He would only have rights to Freespace 3, and not even be able to touch this project. I love his 'threats' with the lawyer bit - he wouldn't have a leg to stand on, as far as I can see.
I say we as true Freespace community would outside that twit and protect it from being run into the ground. If everyone chipped in, I'm sure we could give him a run at least. I would gladly put down some serious change to ward off that arogant fool...
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Originally posted by kv1at3485
Perhaps it would be a good idea to start a new heavily-moderated thread where Mr. Smart and the community can discuss the design of elements in a potential FS3?
Now that's what I'm talking about. This could be of great value to the community and the game. Flaming - it's pointless, and shows up how immature we all are. However, as Zara pointed out, mere disagreement is not flaming. I think we all ought to swallow our pride, at least for a little while, and be prepared to hear something we might disagree with - all of us.
Use your heads, folks. Much is at stake here, and the possibility for a positive relationship between us all stands on a tightwire. Stand for what you believe, by all means; but don't let something like this if fall because of a foolish outburst.
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i agree with setekh on this case.. we need level-heads here, not people shooting their mouths off, come on, we are all civilised here.
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Originally posted by Black_Knight
"I'm not here to win any hearts, blow any minds, organize cookouts, take long walks in the park or pass around the walm milk." Then what the flip does this hack want Freespace for? I say this community just keeps on with the Freespace upgrade project - he can't do anything legally, since the source code was released. He would only have rights to Freespace 3, and not even be able to touch this project. I love his 'threats' with the lawyer bit - he wouldn't have a leg to stand on, as far as I can see.
I say we as true Freespace community would outside that twit and protect it from being run into the ground. If everyone chipped in, I'm sure we could give him a run at least. I would gladly put down some serious change to ward off that arogant fool...
Listen, I understand your sentiments exactly, but I guess it's in the interest of the Freespace community to try and calm down and not respond to baiting, for sake of our reputation.
At present, any criticims which isn't couched in the most diplomatic of language is being tossed out as 'rabid fanboyism', and it's hurting HLPs' image. Please, keep it calm & down encourage a flamewar - be aware your sentiments are being echoed here & in many, many other games forums.
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Originally posted by Setekh
Now that's what I'm talking about. This could be of great value to the community and the game. Flaming - it's pointless, and shows up how immature we all are. However, as Zara pointed out, mere disagreement is not flaming. I think we all ought to swallow our pride, at least for a little while, and be prepared to hear something we might disagree with - all of us.
Can you turn on pre-post moderation for a single thread?
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Good pointing Corhellion, let's cool down the thing and get everything on a constructive tone... It's the best chance we have to avoid being ignored on that... And given the actual situation, being ignored is the worst thing we would experience...
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Well, What Derek appears to be saying there is that if we don't screw with him, he won't screw with us, that I can respect.
Whether I agree with him or not on certain things, that sounds like a offer we should not be casually rejecting :)
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If I maybe so bold, then...
Perhaps a new section of the forum should be created to discuss FS3?
A section for serious design element discussion.
A section for a wishlist.
And so on and so forth.
[And then this topic can be closed.]
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Can you turn on pre-post moderation for a single thread?
Not for a single thread, but let me see what I can arrange.
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also, the hardlight IRC room seems to be open..
so, if anybody wants to discuss there. they can.
irc.sorcery.net #hardlight
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Originally posted by Turnsky
i agree with setekh on this case.. we need level-heads here, not people shooting their mouths off, come on, we are all civilised here.
Lest we forget, isn't this the SAME reason that Volition closed their own forums? :rolleyes:
A bunch of retards just blend in with a good community and then proceed to drag it down.
For me, I've been doing for a VERY long time and I have already separated the HLP wheat from the chaff. The chaff had better start praying that I don't get this license.
Originally posted by Flipside
Well, What Derek appears to be saying there is that if we don't screw with him, he won't screw with us, that I can respect.
Whether I agree with him or not on certain things, that sounds like a offer we should not be casually rejecting :)
Exactly. See how easy that was? And it didn't take a Ph.D. to figure out out either.
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Derek, we're all trying to calm down now. Please don't instigate people to flame again. This community is 99% proffesional, and everyone that's been here for more than 1 or 2 months acts very mature. If you'll look through the other threads, you'll see this to be the truth. It's just this whole...issue has raised tempers somewhat.
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Originally posted by Setekh
Not for a single thread, but let me see what I can arrange.
you could put it temporarily on the G****** forum or something (y'know, convert it). Hell, I'd suggest converting the Reci forum for that, but I wanted to open up the internal and that would just confuse stuff.
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Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
...
I was mistaken again ... I thought you wouldn't be posting more.
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
Derek, we're all trying to calm down now. Please don't instigate people to flame again. This community is 99% proffesional, and everyone that's been here for more than 1 or 2 months acts very mature. If you'll look through the other threads, you'll see this to be the truth. It's just this whole...issue has raised tempers somewhat.
Wot? You finally decided to take your meds? I'm not inciting nor flaming anyone. Thats not my style unless the other side (like you for instance) starts first. I'm an equal opportunity jackass.
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It's not helping that there are statements that could be interpreted as being bellicose being issued from both sides of things.
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Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
Wot? You finally decided to take your meds?
Naw, I just had some spacecrack, muehehehe (inside joke, mate)
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Listen, I understand your sentiments exactly, but I guess it's in the interest of the Freespace community to try and calm down and not respond to baiting, for sake of our reputation.
At present, any criticims which isn't couched in the most diplomatic of language is being tossed out as 'rabid fanboyism', and it's hurting HLPs' image. Please, keep it calm & down encourage a flamewar - be aware your sentiments are being echoed here & in many, many other games forums.
I agree with you in not flaming, but I am just adding my disapproval of his intervention to the long list of people already not in favor of this. If it comes down to it, I'd be willing to put down some serious change for this game.
Calling him a hack and twit was wrong, and I take it back. I don't take the arrogant part back - IF he were to truely work with this community (the one that kept Freespace alive all these years, and the one that deserves that credit) THEN maybe I would listen and accept it. BUt not if he goes off on his own...
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Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
That is all I came here to say. So please stop spreading stupid nonsense (such as this crap over at Blues (http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=50097) about me using HLP and such nonsense) or it will just end up making me even more pissed. I'm NOT and NEVER have been a very forgiving person when it comes to those who go out of their way to harrass and libel me. Believe me, I'm the LAST person you folks want as an adversary. You just don't know it yet.
Correction - we, the fans of Freespace, the people who will buy your game are the last adversary you want to make. Do you seriously think that this hasn't been noticed? Do you think that even if you make FS3, no doubt from your standard, bug filled and unplayable mould, people will buy it? Have you read the thread you linked to? It's an example of many that are all full of people expressing the exact same sentiments "I will never buy a Freespace 3 by Derek Smart". You've isolated your potential fanbase, and we're isolating you from the wider gaming community.
Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
Most games thrive on their communities and I NEVER said ANYTHING about shutting out fans.
Are you even trying to be serious any more? Practically every post you made on AVault had no effect ther than to shut out the fans of the game - those of us on HLP, and those of us who've seen "That crap at Blues"... and the crap at slashdot, and Penny Arcade, and every other forum we've posted at. Many of your posts were directly negative and inflammatory towards specific members of the community who were posting civilly and intelligently. If that's not shutting out the community, then I don't know what is.
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
Correction - we, the fans of Freespace, the people who will buy your game are the last adversary you want to make. Do you seriously think that this hasn't been noticed? Do you think that even if you make FS3, no doubt from your standard, bug filled and unplayable mould, people will buy it? Have you read the thread you linked to? It's an example of many that are all full of people expressing the exact same sentiments "I will never buy a Freespace 3 by Derek Smart". You've isolated your potential fanbase, and we're isolating you from the wider gaming community.
Are you even trying to be serious any more? Practically every post you made on AVault had no effect ther than to shut out the fans of the game - those of us on HLP, and those of us who've seen "That crap at Blues"... and the crap at slashdot, and Penny Arcade, and every other forum we've posted at. Many of your posts were directly negative and inflammatory towards specific members of the community who were posting civilly and intelligently. If that's not shutting out the community, then I don't know what is.
BW, I'm trying to calm down and tolerate him, could you please do the same?
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Originally posted by Black_Knight
I agree with you in not flaming, but I am just adding my disapproval of his intervention to the long list of people already not in favor of this. If it comes down to it, I'd be willing to put down some serious change for this game.
Calling him a hack was wrong, and I take it back. I don't take the arrogant part back - IF he were to truely work with this community (the one that kept Freespace alive all these years, and the one that deserves that credit) THEN maybe I would listen and accept it. BUt not if he goes off on his own...
I know, I know. I've not exactly been sitting on the sidelines, myself, and I agree with you. But the key thing is to keep this under control, y'know? Avoid a flamewar & whatnot.
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
Correction - we, the fans of Freespace, the people who will buy your game are the last adversary you want to make. Do you seriously think that this hasn't been noticed? Do you think that even if you make FS3, no doubt from your standard, bug filled and unplayable mould, people will buy it? Have you read the thread you linked to? It's an example of many that are all full of people expressing the exact same sentiments "I will never buy a Freespace 3 by Derek Smart". You've isolated your potential fanbase, and we're isolating you from the wider gaming community.
...
Let's bet that 90% of those who said that wouldn't buy FS3 would have a second thought if it receives high marks and convincing reviews. . .
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Passion is a funny thing.
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Indeed.
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Hilarious even.
Er
Maybe not
:nervous:
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Let's just wait and see what he has to say...shall we?
*waits patiently for Derek Smart to post again*
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Originally posted by Corhellion
Let's just wait and see what he has to say...shall we?
*waits patiently for Derek Smart to post again*
Setekh's opened a new thread for this discussion to take place in a moderated environment.
EDIT; actually, that sounded a bit 1984-ish. Moderated is better.
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Originally posted by Unknown Target [3000AD]
BW, I'm trying to calm down and tolerate him, could you please do the same?
[/b]
I'm sorry, but no. Comments like his irritate me. Threats irritate me.
Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
For me, I've been doing for a VERY long time and I have already separated the HLP wheat from the chaff. The chaff had better start praying that I don't get this license.
And people who would rather coddle up to people like this that stand on their own and make their feelings heard also irritate me. It's obvious he's made up his mind about HLP - no matter how nice we are now, it's not going to change how he see's us. So I'm sticking with what we all should be aiming at - honesty. Besides - I'm being very refrained - I didn;t touch this:
Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
Exactly. See how easy that was? And it didn't take a Ph.D. to figure out out either.
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I am going to temporarily lock this thread. Civil correspondence is to be directed to this thread:
A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,25248.0.html)
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I would like to re-iterate the fact that the views on this thread are leading us through a one-way door; once we pass through, there is no return. Perhaps we have passed that point already. However, we must give the fragile possibility of fruitful discussion and relationship between our two parties a chance. This thread will be re-opened when our other options have been exhausted.
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On that note, and in light of Derek's decision to leave a response on the nominated thread till later, I'm reopening this thread. Now that you've all poked your heads outside of this one thread and are aware of the existence of the others - and their proper purposes - discussion here may now continue.
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I still say leave him to get on with whatever he wants to do with the license. It makes no difference to me if he produces something that defiles all FS stands for which gets a scathing review, a day or two as a torrent on SuprNova and is then swept under the carpet of memory. (And I don't apologise for having that view; based on the past experiences of his other games it's by far the most probable outcome)
Those that aren't interested in his 'vision' for FS3 should just leave the issue be and hope that the license goes to a software house that would be more suited to it. I don't condone this 'cuddling up to him' either but let that be an issue of personal pride rather than trying to present a united front. And a lot of people in this thread have taken it way too seriously - beyond passion - this is a game we're talking about FFS, not something that's going to severely alter your lifestyle if all this talk of legal action, whether it's meaningful or just a hollow threat, takes place. Put it all into context and decide whether you want to partake in this silly 'grand fight' some people seem to fantasise about.
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Guys you should read Remoras post there
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Originally posted by SadisticSid
I still say leave him to get on with whatever he wants to do with the license. It makes no difference to me if he produces something that defiles all FS stands for which gets a scathing review, a day or two as a torrent on SuprNova and is then swept under the carpet of memory. (And I don't apologise for having that view; based on the past experiences of his other games it's by far the most probable outcome)
The question, though, might not be whether we care about his FS3, but whether this is the man that we, the community, want as the puclic face of the Freespace saga.
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Are we really all that there is to the FS community? Is there no one left? Are we able to claim to be the last true followers of FS?
If not, I wonder what the other FS people are thinking...
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There're a few foreign language communities, but I think the views of the rest of the FSers have been shown on places like bluesnews and /. and the like.
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
The question, though, might not be whether we care about his FS3, but whether this is the man that we, the community, want as the puclic face of the Freespace saga.
I'm with you on this one.
Also, the Ph.D remark was amusing, seeing as it was proven that Mr Smart doesn't seem to have one himself.
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Meh, I've seen enough of Mr Smarts' 'wit' to ignore his trolling now.
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Im going to start emailing all the game reviewers and magazine writers, and publishers about this. Im going to send all the links i found regarding this and send it all to them.
Im going to send them all the news bits posted on the various URL's and im going to set it up to market the Freespace name, and show the Publishers and any interested that FS2 has some steam behind it and now is the time to pick up this cheap franchise and build upon it.
Least i can do for Freespace 2
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I've decided this: I don't really care about the Freespace name, but what it currently represents.
Freespace, to me, is the spiritual successor to the X-Wing series which died such a horrible death at the hands of LEC (XWA - The story line and voice acting was quite possibly the best ever made, but the engine, interface and everything else sucked big time - For me XvT was the last...)
In this light, I'd get any space-shooter that had XW's, and now FS', spirit.
If 3000AD made and released FS3, and it rocked, I'd buy it. If it sucks, I won't - It's as simple as that.
But then if 3000AD made a space shooter of their own IP and it rocked, I'd probably buy that too.
The fact is no one has made a decent space-shooter in ages. Freelancer had potential, but it was neither Elite-y or X-Wingy, and I personally thought it could have done better. It was good, but not worth buying.
X^2 I hated viciously - The control system was horrible and it was horrendously buggy, but again it had a lot of potential.
In fact, the best space-shooter that has been released 'recently' (ish) is I've Found Her, the Babylon 5-based sim. The newtonian takes a LOT of getting used to (Actually I hate it - WW2-style physics works much better for space-combat sims!), but the game itself was great - The fact that it is not-for-profit puts many for-profit games to shame!
(I'm secretly hoping FE2 can recreate this success in the future :D)
I don't envy 3000AD's task if they do choose to do this 'tho - They have a *LOT* to live up to - When things with the quality of IFH are being made for free, and heck BWO and the FS2:B5 mod for that matter, that really raises the bar.
It will neither be easy nor quick, but they could pull it off...
As the late, great Roy Castle would say, "Dedication's what you need."
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Alright, I've been trying to hold back my opinions as much as I could away from the forums, but I feel as if I need to say something now. (Sorry at the administrators if I go overboard, but it needs to be said...)
Derek Smart, you are truely a unique individual, I have never met a game developer with the maturity and attitude of a 12 year old, who gets a temper EVERY TIME someone criticizes you, no matter what it is about.
It is this that has probably helped led to your repeated game failures in the past years, you refuse to listen to anyone with helpful advice, the people who dont like the game and think it could be improved, you goto your fanboy suckups, the one's who say "OMG I LOVE YOUR GAMES DO WHATEVER YOU WANT WITH THEM!" they seem so helplessly addicted to you that you can make them go across the internet and act as your little puppy guarddogs.
You have gone out of your way to come to serveral gaming forums (including this one) to repeatedly post over and over again in a fashion of a troll, NEVER have I met a game developer who acted like a troll. You sir, have some growing up todo. And you do realize, with every post you post in your lovely trolling/flaming fashion, more people learn about you and go "Who the hell would buy this guy's games?", you've pretty much been hurting yourself, your image for a long time now, and what you're going to wind up doing should by some chance in hell that you do get this license is most likely ruin a Freespace 3, because you do not care what our input on what we say about your game because we have opinions, some that are bad, and you only listen to your 3000AD 'suckups' and since they say yes to anything...
And Derek? What happened to the "I'm never going to post here again"?
Oh, and please, everyone knows that your PhD is fake.
And in closing, Derek, with your maturity and attitude to others, you are a public relations blackhole, a plague to any game you get your hands on from my point of view. You have the touch of death to game development just because of your attitude and maturity.
My thoughts and opinions may not be the thoughts and opinions of HLP
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Originally posted by Derek Smart at AVAULT:
In fact, the first thing I'm going to do is remove the beam weapons from the game, as I find that they have NO place in the next Freespace game.
Why? The FreeSpace 2 unique "feature" was beam weapons and nebulas. Sure, FreeSpace 3 should have some other angles or features which set it apart. But why abandon the original innovations which made FreeSpace 2 so cool in the first place? It makes no sense, and confirms to me that Derek Smart is the wrong person to have the FreeSpace license. It sounds like Derek Smart has the technology, liked FreeSpace 2, and has the free time to make a quick project that would cash in on FreeSpace's name recognition.
FreeSpace deserves better than it will get at the hands of Derek Smart.
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He already noted he was posting that strictly to get you to fly into a hissy fit.
Which, y'know, is exactly the sort of response I anticipated from him, and warned you about.
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Originally posted by Zarathud
Originally posted by Derek Smart at AVAULT:
Why? The FreeSpace 2 unique "feature" was beam weapons and nebulas. Sure, FreeSpace 3 should have some other angles or features which set it apart. But why abandon the original innovations which made FreeSpace 2 so cool in the first place? It makes no sense, and confirms to me that Derek Smart is the wrong person to have the FreeSpace license. It sounds like Derek Smart has the technology, liked FreeSpace 2, and has the free time to make a quick project that would cash in on FreeSpace's name recognition.
FreeSpace deserves better than it will get at the hands of Derek Smart.
I get the impression that he's getting more reactions out of anyone than actually planning to do anything one way or another. Best to let it be still for now.
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AAA beams should be removed only. Anti-capship beams should stay.
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Why?
They are one of the best things in the game...
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Originally posted by Zarax
Why?
They are one of the best things in the game...
I detest them.
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I don't share your point of view, but let's drop this, as we are way off topic here.
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Originally posted by TopAce
I detest them.
Turn down the difficulty level then.
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Originally posted by Zarax
I don't share your point of view, but let's drop this, as we are way off topic here.
Not you are the only one. :D
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Cuz you get killed by them? that's the whole point :doubt:
Anywayz, way off-topic here :D
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Make sure that YOUR side is the one firing them. You'll love 'em then >:)
As for topic... I think at this point the topic is long lost in that nebula we passed a few parsecs back :)
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Wow, even in all this hubbub, HLP still acts "normal" :D
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Originally posted by TopAce
AAA beams should be removed only. Anti-capship beams should stay.
Originally posted by TopAce
I detest them.
See TopAce. You're getting abuse has nothing to do with poor English skills.
If you don't like them edit the tables. I know you know how.
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Nothing should be removed from the game. Beam weapons are great. The only thing I would like is that normal weapons (like Terran Huge Turret & stuff) actually become usefull, practicly on-pair with beams.
then you could really have diverity.
For instance, Terrans would concetrate mostly on warships with big plasma turrets (think WW2 battleship).
Vasudans would favour beams as main weaponry.
Nedless to say, they would both have both guns & beams, only to a different extent.
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Originally posted by TrashMan
Nothing should be removed from the game. Beam weapons are great. The only thing I would like is that normal weapons (like Terran Huge Turret & stuff) actually become usefull, practicly on-pair with beams.
then you could really have diverity.
For instance, Terrans would concetrate mostly on warships with big plasma turrets (think WW2 battleship).
Vasudans would favour beams as main weaponry.
Nedless to say, they would both have both guns & beams, only to a different extent.
The point of powerful turrets(not beams now) is not so practical for the designers, because two capital ships demoralize each other too quickly. I tried increasing the power of the turrets and two Hatshepsuts finished with each other in 2 minutes.
Originally posted by karajorma
See TopAce. You're getting abuse has nothing to do with poor English skills.
If you don't like them edit the tables. I know you know how.
What's wrong with me again? I told my opinion about the AAA turrets. I do know how to change on it and I would change on it, but the campaign(s) I am about to release in the future SHOULD have the 'AAA whacking'(or whatever you call it) on, because you all like it.
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That's why you give them more armor than a crippled old lady living in a shopping cart. Most of the capship weapon/armor values remained proportional to FS1's. The fighter weapons didn't.
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Originally posted by TrashMan
Nothing should be removed from the game. Beam weapons are great. The only thing I would like is that normal weapons (like Terran Huge Turret & stuff) actually become usefull, practicly on-pair with beams.
then you could really have diverity.
For instance, Terrans would concetrate mostly on warships with big plasma turrets (think WW2 battleship).
Vasudans would favour beams as main weaponry.
Nedless to say, they would both have both guns & beams, only to a different extent.
Please...just...just no. The Turrets are really only supportive anti cap weapons, Beams are meant to be the heavy hitters.
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Originally posted by TopAce
I detest them.
That's the point. The introduction of shields made laser turrets ineffective in FS1 - that's partly why AAA was needed. It also allowed for an added tactical dimension, i.e. luring enemy fighters into AAA beams.
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Indeed, and that was balanced by the flak that had no aim - it effected everything.
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All right, Derek Smart. First of all, let me just say this is some constructive criticism (sp?). First of all, insulting us is only going to make us madder. You are not going to get anywhere by insulting us back. Second, you cannot remove the beam cannons from FS3, if you make it. They play a big role in the FS2 game. How do you expect capital ships to die? Continuous bombardment for five hours by laser turrets? No, I don't think so. Third, what's the point of designing ships from the inside and out? Will there be a mission where you must locate the fighterbay (sarcastic remark)? Next, is that I'm on a two way street with FS3. If you're gonna do a good job, then do it. But if you can't, or you're gonna remove important factors such as beam cannons, then don't. Listen to what the gamers have to say. Remember this quote: By Gamers, For Gamers. We don't want By Derek Smart, For Gamers. We want a true blue sequal. So I suggest you shut up with your insults, and you listen to us for once. It is not your universe. You may have the liscence, but you can't beat the hard work that has been done here. You cannot remove awesome ships like the Gargant or the Archangel. You can't just trash awesome campaigns such as Inferno, Into the Depths of Hell, etc... And if you're so smart, then I suggest you start taking down ideas from here, or it isn't going to be pretty. That's all I have to say.
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Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
Lest we forget, isn't this the SAME reason that Volition closed their own forums? :rolleyes:
A bunch of retards just blend in with a good community and then proceed to drag it down.
For me, I've been doing for a VERY long time and I have already separated the HLP wheat from the chaff. The chaff had better start praying that I don't get this license.
I think it's necessary to point out that V had several games covered on their forums - namely Summoner and Red Faction. From that point, it's unwise to blame what amounted to 3 sub-forums out of a total of, IIRc, around 8+ forums for their closing.
There was, of course, the financial aspect of Volition being bought over by THQ - I believe this may have led to THQ having more overall responsibility for customer contact, and hence V having either less funding, or a deliberately reduced responsbility, for moderating their forum.
IIRC, it was actually THQ who took the decision to close the forums. The VBB had pretty much degenerated into a mess by then, but it is worth pointing out that it would be churlish to blame one subsection of a subsection of the members for it.
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Originally posted by TopAce
What's wrong with me again? I told my opinion about the AAA turrets. I do know how to change on it and I would change on it, but the campaign(s) I am about to release in the future SHOULD have the 'AAA whacking'(or whatever you call it) on, because you all like it.
It's your opinion and you're entitled to it but when you put it in the way you did you come off as arrogant and that will cause you problems.
I only mention it cause you were complaining about this board being harsh to people for whom English is a second language and it's not a fair point.
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Originally posted by karajorma
It's your opinion and you're entitled to it but when you put it in the way you did you come off as arrogant and that will cause you problems.
I only mention it cause you were complaining about this board being harsh to people for whom English is a second language and it's not a fair point.
Well, maybe it is an english thing - because native or really good speakers can change their phrasology to reflect stuff like their tone, etc - mimicking 'body language' with punctuation, so to speak. Of course, if it's done naturally it's almost imperceptible.
TopAce - try and avoid absolute statements that rule out possibility of compromise, or add a caveat that it's your own opinion. That'll help, methinks.
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<[°"°]> ----[Right, he is, young one. Fight not the force, you will. Embrace it, you will.]
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The Beam weapons are staying, guys. :rolleyes:
DS said so himself - his post about removing beams and joystick support was to rile up Zarathud. He was being sarcastic.
Derek, git yerself back in here so I can stop playing lawer for you.
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Give it up, Sandwich- they also still seem to think Derek already has the license, etc.
Attempting to inform people in this mess is doomed to failure from the get-go.
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The problem is, to stay informed about all of this, you need to browse on a ****load number of forums. Which is why information is badly transmitted and often taken out of context.
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Yeah, this is going actively on what...4 or 5 forums now?
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More like a dozen.:eek2:
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I'm beyond caring anymore, can't we just focus over here on getting current mods finished/released?
Stuff what happens with Smart, it's his problem not yours.
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*goes to finish aotd demo
I think I'll just Pimp Aotd in all the smart threads. They're bound to get at least a hundred hits an hour........ :drevil:
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Agreement with Vyper. If it's good, it's good. If it's not, we just dismiss. We have plenty of works here more than worthy of being FS3. I say we just forget it... 'Cuz quite frankly I haven't seen the problem from the start. So what if he has a bad reutation? That doesn't necesarily mean that FS3 will suck.
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I'm actually done bothering with talking to Derek. I'm just going to go back to my modding, and trying to get something together to buy the FS liscence.
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Genryu: Speed-reading and an easily downloadable array of internet tools, my man. Read it like a newsticker, every few hours or so.
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
I think I'll just Pimp Aotd in all the smart threads. They're bound to get at least a hundred hits an hour........ :drevil:
Yeah, very clever. :p HLP has calmed down since then, though. :)
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Hmmmm what if I told you I was making a Freespace 4? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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That would be a worry. :lol:
Anyway, it's now time for a lot of behind-the-scenes action. Gotta love being an admin... :)
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Don't make go DS on you!!! :lol:
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HLP has calmed down since then, though
:nod: good thing about this was we get new mempers
Anyway Thanks god that I didn't post in this thread when I was really angry:)
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Mr Smart,
I've deliberatly tried staying out of any discussion here on your plans and the little bombs you've dropped sofar (at the least they had that effect).
There's only two questions on my mind which I would like for you to answer, if you can.
Your previous games all suffered from a somewhat similar fate (as do most games thesedays) they were forced out the door before full completion, AAR they had bugs making them unplayable for some if not a lot of people (I myself am still tryin, without success, to get my hand on a copy of BC that will run on my system, a PII460Mhz with 512MB and GeforceFX5200Ultra).
Soooo, question 1:
what precautions are you planning to put in place so that this time around, there's no chance in hell to see this happening again, if and when you acquire the FS3 license...
Question 2:
Instead of us being on opposites sides of the fence (developer versus hardcore fanbase) would you be willing to accept financing from this same hardcore fanbase. (even though I expect you already have enough fincancial backing to put up a bid for the rights)
To HLP members...I would very much appreciate it if all of you start thinking for a chance...I've seen a helluva lot of remarks along the line of 'look what we've done in the last 5 yrs' well, wake up and smell the roses, that ain't exactly a lot *if compared to commercial projects*.
So if ever there was an actual chance on seeing FS3 go beyond the chitchat phase, THIS IS IT....
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[q]Anyway, it's now time for a lot of behind-the-scenes action. Gotta love being an admin...[/q]
Doesn't Shrike have a whip or something for this sort of situation?
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JarC, not to be polemic, but you cannot talk for everyone here, especially when talking about delicate aspects such as financial matters...
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Guys, guys, I found a VERY simple solution.
He makes the game.
Nobody buys it.
He looses lots of money.
Weeee! :nod:
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What if somebody shows him the source code the FreeSpace community has been building? Maybe he will buy it?
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I'm pretty sure he's noticed the SCP by now. And it's under the GPL, I don't think he can buy it.
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As far as I am concerned, more people here would rather delete all information regarding the Source Code Developments rather than fork them over to Derek Smart. This much, I agree with. Especially if he claims he can grab everything worked on here for the past couple of years. Aint happenin! :ick:
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Originally posted by NeoHunter
What if somebody shows him the source code the FreeSpace community has been building? Maybe he will buy it?
Which one are you thinking about? Ferrium or the SCP itself?
I think he wouldn't buy it, since FreeSpace Open is FreeWare(you have to pay exactly $0 for it).
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
As far as I am concerned, more people here would rather delete all information regarding the Source Code Developments rather than fork them over to Derek Smart. This much, I agree with. Especially if he claims he can grab everything worked on here for the past couple of years. Aint happenin! :ick:
There is no way we could hide it by now. And initially(if I remember correctly, this thread is too long, so I may be mistaken), we used the SCP to show what this community achieved. We tried to convince him to listen to us.
Originally posted by NeoHunter
Well, he can either buy the code from the community or nobody from the community ever buys his FreeSpace 3 then!:D
(post below, but answer here :D)
I think that not that will decide the number of sales.
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Well, he can either buy the code from the community or nobody from the community ever buys his FreeSpace 3 then!:D
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Ok, rumour control.
Derek has stated specifically that he will NOT be using the Source Code for Freespace 2, and for that, I do not blame him, nor would anyone on the SCP.
Secondly, regardless of what race it is, the models and textures that we have created are our own copyright property. He would not be able to use them without written permission, I am sure he would follow correct protocol.
My own opinion is that Derek has said the following :-
You leave me alone to do my thing, I'll leave you alone to do yours. Personally, I think we should leave it at that.
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:wtf: @ NeoHunter
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Originally posted by Flipside
...Secondly, regardless of what race it is, the models and textures that we have created are our own copyright property.
That's a good point, but who told he would want to use any of our models/textures/missions?
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Yay!
But I probably wont buy the game unless people tell me its worthy of our attention. I just pray it doesnt turn out like Silent Threat.
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Originally posted by vyper
:wtf: @ NeoHunter
Stop that!
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[EDIT] I decided to post on a PM(it's a bit off-topic but not spam), erase this if you want to.
[EDIT 2] I asked how ST had turned out.
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Very, very, crappy.
Also, very anti-climatic.
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I'm with you Vyper - This got boring very quick :)
BTW guys, the IP and the SCP are seperate - The SCP was owned by Volition (It was THEIR code) and they GPL'ed it and gave it to us (Yay [V]!).
Everything else 'tho, the story, the textures, the ships, the sounds, the voice acting, the cutscenes etc. is Interplay's.
DS could use and derive from the SCP if he wanted and we'd have no right to stop him (I wouldn't want to either - this would be against the whole spirit of the GPL), and he could charge for what he made if he wanted to.
However, he would HAVE to include the source code with anything he made with it, and THAT would automatically become GPL too, and anyone could fork it and mod it and release their own stuff based on it as long as they release the code too.
This is the essence of the GPL - To keep the source open and free for all.
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This is OK, but that's GPL?
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my question exactly.
only I would get flamed for asking. Thank you.
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Erm...guys, what is GPL? I haven't been on this forums for a long time.
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Irrelevant to the actual license acquisition. And the SCP is not actually GPL'd, it's close, but it's not GPL.
http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html
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General Public Licence. OK.
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Originally posted by NeoHunter
Stop that!
Stop what?! :blah:
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Why didn't you point out your problem?
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I'd be willing to contribute my 50 bucks, if that would even increase the income marginaly.
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[q]Why didn't you point out your problem?[/q]
My problem was he asked a very strange question about Smart buying the SCP code which is impossible.
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Originally posted by TopAce
That's a good point, but who told he would want to use any of our models/textures/missions?
I'm not saying he does, I'm just saying that if he wanted to use them he would contact the creator and ask permission.
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Originally posted by Flipside
I'm not saying he does, I'm just saying that if he wanted to use them he would contact the creator and ask permission.
Yes, it's obvious and I am pretty sure he knows it.
@vyper: Since he is not interested in it, yes, it is strange.
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This is the license under which Volition released the SCP to us:
/*
* Copyright (C) Volition, Inc. 1999. All rights reserved.
*
* All source code herein is the property of Volition, Inc. You may not sell
* or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the
* source.
*
*/So the only way he could "use and derive from the SCP" is if he released his game for free.
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:no: This post is directed at Derek Smart
I cannot believe the way in which have handled your responses to this community's concern of you attaining the rights to and developing the Freespace licence, particularly those in the adreniline vaults forums.
I have played some of your games that you say "surpass what this community is doing by a galaxy" ( forgive me if I paraphrase).
I can respect what you TRY to do as a businessman and a developer,believe me I really wanted to enjoy your games, I wish they were as good as you think they are,but frankly I think they are all rubbish. You and your development team are crack amauters as far as I am concerned, playing in a league that is a galaxy ahead of what you are capable of. This group of "teeny leetle" people have a vested interest in what they have been working for some time.
My suggestion to you is rather than aquiring a licence to a succesful series to "develop" a sequel , you should aquire the rights to a game engine that actually works. And rather than flaming the community that loves the game and would probably buy your game IF you did happen to create a winner, why not work with them.
I invite you to take a look at the Egosoft forums for thier "X" series of games. You could learn a little about how a person in a Dev position should relate to the people that buy these games.
Also note how they actually patch thier games, and not only fix the problems with what they have done so far, but give extra content with their patches. Something that allways seems to be missing after you release crap on the market and actually charge for it.
And on one last final note; if all of yourgames have made money , then you are a crook. I dont think that releasing such garbage would fly in any other industry than your beloved crap indie game market.
Thanks
Rybiz
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Rybiz, some of your post shows you're misinformed. Derek Smart has actually released patches to his games, particularly the original Battlecruiser. The original was released pre-alpha or so, but he released a patch a few months later which added features and made it playable.
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He's stated his opinion, and I, for one, am glad to see people from outside giving a voice of support for making FS3 as good as it can be, whether that be in the hands of Derek Smart or anyone else :)
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Originally posted by Kamikaze
The original was released pre-alpha or so, but he released a patch a few months later which added features and made it playable.
It's the "Rush the release and patch later" syndrome that is ruining the PC market, and it sucks.
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:welcome:
rybiz
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Dang, I get sick for 3 days and I missed the meltdown? Dang...
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This whole thing is pretty silly, anyway; Derek Smart is just sad nobody 's flamed him in months, and he wants to stir the pot a little. He's not going to buy the license; I doubt he actually has the raw cash-money to outbid HLP (and what's the current bidding going for, anyway? $1500?).
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... :wtf:
Keep in mind that the current HLP pot is at $0.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
... :wtf:
Keep in mind that the current HLP pot is at $0.
See what I mean? There's no way he could outbid that :p
Seriously, nobody is desperate enough to sell to Derek Smart. Interplay isn't going to sacrifice whatever dignity it has left.
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It just got kicked out of its offices for being a deadbeat. What dignity?
Though I think Smart's still speculating about it.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
It just got kicked out of its offices for being a deadbeat. What dignity?
Let me put it this way: even hobos want to die with honor.
Although, seriously: what does Smart have to gain from acquiring Freespace? The love of the community - oops, screw that. And he's already more or less said that if he does get the license it's going to be in the vein of the Battlecruiser games. He's already completely dedicated to the BC series; if he somehow acquired Freespace, all that would mean he has to either work twice as hard to develop the game, or scrap the existing BC universe and risk alienating his small core of fans. Nobody is that stupid, not even Derek Smart.
With that in mind, I see three alternative possibilities:
1) Smart is genuinely interested in the license, but more as a "badge of honor" rather than as a serious venture.
2) Smart wants to scare someone else into buying up the license, thereby sparking a revival of the genre in which he, Derek Smart, will receive prominant focus.
3) He's just stirring the pot because he can.
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never underestimate the stupidity of other people.
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OK people....i think enough is enough. Is derek Smart arrogant? yes he is. Is also pompous and self important? Yes he is. However.....did he get flamed before he even got into this community? Yes he did. By every damned one of us. I hate to say it, because god knows i love HLP and FS, but we were wrong. Maybe he can't do a good job on FS, hell some of us can't, and we like to consider ourselves Guru's. From his post earlier, he is going to try to contact the people at [V]. Who knows, if they are interested he may even go to them for devolpment.....wouldn't we all feel like a right bunch of morons then?
Here's the deal....yes he came in flaming. Well so would i. It was just as wrong of him to come in flaming like that as it was...oh i don't know....us to start flaming anyway. Christ almighty we are all adults here...or close to it chronologically. Time to act like it. I'm sick of all the Derek Smart threads. If we want to talk about pre empting him in a business decision that's one thing, but can we stop the bashing? It wasn't called for when he bashed us, it wasn't called for when i bashed him, it still isn't called for.
Am I a fan of Derek Smart? No. Have I been converted to his way of thinking? No. Do I think we should kiss his ass? No. But the simple fact is, that if you go to page 1 and start reading, he was flamed before he got here, he came in angry and flamed back and a war was started. We (meaning some people at HLP) started this crap.
I am sure that some of you will no doubt be flaming me in about 2 minutes, but i don't much care. Some of the things he said were uncalled for, some of the things i said to him were uncalled for, and alot of what we've said to him is uncalled for.
Everyone blew it on this one. Me included. This bull**** is killing the reputation of HLP, we expect to get help funding a venture to buy the liscence to a game. If i was someone who was being asked and i read these threads i would say hell no, if you are too immature to even hold a debate with someone about the abilities that they posess and lack, then you sure as hell aren't mature enough to hold the liscence to a game.
So let's simply pat each other on the back, because while we were busy being big shots in our own eyes and telling derek off, we were giving him all the ammunition he needed to screw us if he wants to. We as a community had better wise up real fast, because we can't afford to keep blowing it like we did this time.
We should all be ashamed of our actions. From Me, to all of you, and to Derek. HLP, Derek Smart, certain individuals at AV. We all should be ashamed of how we handled this. We all had a chance and we all blew it, right about now i am thinking that cost of all of our indescretion on this matter is far too high.
Am I a fan of derek Smart? no. Have i been converted to his way of thinking? No. I am a member of HLP, and as such i helped screw us all, just like the rest of you, just like Derek Smart.
I'm done with these threads.
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Well, if this *does* somehow go through (in the alternate reality where Argentina won World War II) at the very least he'll most likely be digging his own grave.
In any case, I'm still certain he's not going to do it. Relax, enjoy your "I Got Flamed By Derek Smart On The Inter-Net" t-shirts.
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OK people....i think enough is enough. Is derek Smart arrogant? yes he is. Is also pompous and self important? Yes he is. However.....did he get flamed before he even got into this community? Yes he did. By every damned one of us. I hate to say it, because god knows i love HLP and FS, but we were wrong. Maybe he can't do a good job on FS, hell some of us can't, and we like to consider ourselves Guru's. From his post earlier, he is going to try to contact the people at [V]. Who knows, if they are interested he may even go to them for devolpment.....wouldn't we all feel like a right bunch of morons then?
Sorry...what? I was online, and I posted, and while I wasn't bubbling over with joy (In fact I was quite negative and pessimistic about everything) I didn't have anything against the guy. It was *after* he started flaming people that I got annoyed.
My major beef now is that he seems to be into making an example of the HLP sinners, and stirring up a righteous fury against us because he chose to see the worst posts in the worst way.
Now, if he were to get the old :V: dev team back, and throw himself at the mercy of daveb...I wouldn't really care. I mean, at this point, all he's done is really degrade himself as a person in my eyes. I have no clue what his programming skills are and what the end result of him building Freespace 3 would be, but I think he's explicitly stated his opinion regarding the projects at HLP.
So personally, I think if he gets the rights, from what he's said we have a lot to worry about. But if someone else gets the rights...I'm liking that.
Derek Smart is welcome to build Freespace 3 in my eyes - just as long as he doesn't soil the name. But I think he's far too immature to be entrusted with the license. If he wants to prove me wrong and try to make peace with us, I'll happily stand corrected.
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That's your opinion Shadow, and it most certainly does not tally with mine.
My opinions on DS are my own, but take a look at the order of flames chronologicaly, unless you are this Utnayan character, who was the only person trolling before DS and his henchmen started deliberately baiting members.
Don't sell us short, and don't assume that just because we are strong characters that we start every argument ;)
Flipside
Edit : To further elaborate, if I walked into a bar in Ireland and said 'Give me a beer you bastard IRA member and make it fast because I'm English, the police report would probably define it as suicide.
Anyway, that's my piece.
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Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH
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So let's simply pat each other on the back, because while we were busy being big shots in our own eyes and telling derek off, we were giving him all the ammunition he needed to screw us if he wants to. We as a community had better wise up real fast, because we can't afford to keep blowing it like we did this time.
We should all be ashamed of our actions. From Me, to all of you, and to Derek. HLP, Derek Smart, certain individuals at AV. We all should be ashamed of how we handled this. We all had a chance and we all blew it, right about now i am thinking that cost of all of our indescretion on this matter is far too high.
...
You really think the type of guy you've just described NEEDS an excuse to 'cut us out' of whatever he's doing? No, he'll have already decided on his vision and he's not going to cater to our views unless we start licking his balls wherever he treads. If he gets the license then our fate was sealed the moment he made that first post.
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Well I think its time to let these threads die, everyone has had their say, time to move on and enjoy life :D
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Wondered what was the fate of Admiral Bosch ? he became DS :D
More seriously, before thinking of buying a licence of FS, why not thinking about funding those who pay for the hosting service of FS2Net ?
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A little back to the 90 page-long guide: I think even FreeSpace's guide MAY be that long, but a guide is not designed to be read first after you bought a game. You only need it when you do not find your way around or some questions come up(let's guess, you do not know how to change your weaponry in the weapon selection). In case, you pick up the guide and open it in the appropriate page. After finding the solution, you put down the guide and continue playing.
If you HAD to read 90 pages BEFORE starting to play just to know what the whole game is about, a 90 page-long reading is long, indeed.
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DW-Florian: I pay for that. I accept donations via paypal, though, if you feel compelled ;)
Right now, all the Derek insults are blurring. It is becoming noise. People might as well put it in their sigs for all the attention anyone is paying to it.
3 days of "Kill him!" tends to numb the senses ;)
On a brighter note, the avault thread has one of best collections of FSO screenies I have seen in a while, someone should make sure they end up on the FSO site...
Oh, that would be us SCP guys...
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Originally posted by Inquisitor
On a brighter note, the avault thread has one of best collections of FSO screenies I have seen in a while, someone should make sure they end up on the FSO site...
Oh, that would be us SCP guys...
Indeed, when I saw them I think I was blind little while it was so so..:eek2:
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The nebula background on Smart's pictures suck. I do not have any problem with his models, though. But of course, KARMA's Fenris, Bob's Deimos and Nico's some fighters rule them all.
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All I can say is wow... Simply wow... I'm away for a couple of days, and the wampa really hit the fan. My eyes are bleeding from this whole thread, but hell what a read. I just can't believe it. Insane. Totally insane. And on Freespace 3... Well, lets see what happens. From what I've read and seen, I can't say much for his attitude, but hell who knows... It might be good. I'll give him the benefit of a doubt.
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ARGH! My mind is melting...he's trying to turn Freespace into another Battlecruiser/Universal Combat game!
:hopping: :hopping:
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No. He's stated clearly enough that he wont do THAT.
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LOL, this is the longest thread I have seen in like 2 years.
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well, it seems that the PCpowerplay forums are a buzz with this info.. not like here or avault.. but going alright nonetheless.. which is good, since PCpowerplay is a major PC gaming mag here.
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Link?
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Originally posted by Dark_4ce
No. He's stated clearly enough that he wont do THAT.
You been reading Avault?
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Yeah, most recent is a hint that he'd do something like freelancer for the backdrop of the game. With stuff happening all the time instead of just mission based scripted events.
Something that people wanted the SCP to do at one time, incidentally.
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Oh... Did he add some more? I did read some of his posts on avault that stated that he wanted to steer away from making it like BC or UC. I'll go check it out.
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It never really has been consistant. It's been sort of a "I'll be true to FS style" but with not-so-subtile hints that he'd want to do another freeform with it, which is not at all FS style. A bit of a conflict, if you ask me, and I don't think he sees it that way.
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*sigh*
I'll quote a line from a famous poem...
"...How did it come to this?"
But hell on the flipside this is better than a spanish soap opera. :D
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Heh, leave me out of this ;)
Seriously though, for now, I'm content to sit and wait and see what happens. My own opinions are my own, and I expect everyone on here has their own opinion, but I've said my piece for now, on a few forums, about my own personal opinion of the situation. Since I have no information regarding what is really going on, I can't really jump to assumptions about what FS3 is going to be like.
So for now, I'm taking a step back and waiting to see what happens and find whether my hobby will continue to be something that relaxes me, or whether it's time to find another hobby.
I've had enough stress and concern for now, I've never really been concerned about the 'fate' of FS3, if it happens, it happens, but I mod and participate for pleasure, and I have to face it, it's not bringing me much of that at the moment, which is somewhat like the loss of an old friend :(
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My final judgment on the thing will depend on the amount of [V] personnel/material he will use...
I mean, with a [V] storyline the software below matters less... I'm sure you get what i really mean ;)
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Originally posted by Inquisitor
Link?
Heres the game mag main url, forum seem to no functional at the moment.:wtf:
http://www.pcpowerplay.com.au
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Originally posted by Sigma957
Heres the game mag main url, forum seem to no functional at the moment.:wtf:
http://www.pcpowerplay.com.au
Word of warning... You have to sign up to see the fourms...
And they are not that different over there. Nobody like DS anyWHERE!
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Meh, sign ups don;t bug me.
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Pretty harmless thread.
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He's said that he doesn't want another BC in the most vague, general terms possible, and then every time he's offered details it's been manifestly apparent that's exactly what he's planning.
Mind, this is the guy who could call Venom a crap-spewing Frenchman and then turn around and get huffy at the suggestion he was being insulting, right after apparently taking mortal offense at someone's suggestion that there might be a minor graphical bug in his engine. His perception of what makes a game a Battlecruiser game- his perception of anything- is deeply surreal.
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Originally posted by DSmart [3000AD]
How can I forget the group of people who couldn't make Freespace2 a retail success worthy of its effort? Do you REALLY want to go there?
You know, I couldn't stand by and let that one go unassaulted. Sorry to burst your little bubble there Derek, but it was INTERPLAY that dropped the ball there. Yeah, thats right! YOUR FRIENDS screwed the pooch. It wasn't Volition's responsibility to publish the game, it was INTERPLAY'S. If Interplay had actually ADVERTISED the game, it would have sold alot better. I've talked to people that have played the first game, and never even HEARD of the second one. I introduced them to it and they were flat out blown away. In fact, one of them flat out stated that FS2 had the best graphics and gameplay he had ever seen. This is someone that regularly plays FPS games, completely blown away by a game with (and I quote) "an legacy engine".
For the record, until I heard about this story I had never even HEARD of you, let alone your pathetic "games". I decided to check up on your reviews and have yet to read a good one. Freespace2, on the other hand, got RAVE reviews and to this day still has an active fanbase. Hell, DESCENT still has a very active fanbase, and its been around for what, 10 years now? I can assure you that after reading what an egotistical dickhead you are, I will not be buying ANYTHING you make or are the least bit involved in. Same goes for anyone I meet. Your so-called experience doesn't mean jack **** when you alienate the very fans you're supposed to be catoring to since WE are the only ones that would remotely be interested in your little project. You obviously never payed attention in any of your business classes. Don't tell me...you bought your so-called doctoritte online from overseas didn't you?
I may not be working "in the industry", but remember that its people like ME that pay for the games that MAKE your salary. So go ahead, flex your ego a little more and see how big a check you get next time. I guarantee you none of it will be from my wallet.
Oh, for those that are reading, I only got to page 10 before I gave up and had to post this. If someone has already brought this up, or the mods posted a message somewhere in this thread for replies to him to cease, I apologize. I couldn't sit idly by anymore and let that one go.
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It's ok...
*pats Vertigo on the back*
We feel your pain
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Originally posted by jdjtcagle
It's ok...
*pats Vertigo on the back*
We feel your pain
Yeah, I haven't been here in AGES. Hell, I was suprised to see Setekh back.
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Welcome back:)
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Welcome Back Vertigo :)
Thanks for the support, I understand how you feel.
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Originally posted by Vertigo1
If Interplay had actually ADVERTISED the game, it would have sold alot better. I've talked to people that have played the first game, and never even HEARD of the second one. I introduced them to it and they were flat out blown away. In fact, one of them flat out stated that FS2 had the best graphics and gameplay he had ever seen. This is someone that regularly plays FPS games, completely blown away by a game with (and I quote) "an legacy engine".
Agreed. I'm one of those people. I played the first Freespace and loved it but only got part 2 after several years it was released because I did not know it exsisted.
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So the license is for sale? how much do you think it costs?
I'm for V it's there little baby so....simpel!
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Originally posted by Cabbie
Agreed. I'm one of those people. I played the first Freespace and loved it but only got part 2 after several years it was released because I did not know it exsisted.
On that same token, there are still alot of Descent fans that loved the first two, but never even heard of the third (and final) game and it's add-on.
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Has everyone made their feelings known now and can we move on? Come on, this has been a giant farce from the minute it was posted.
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Well I calculate more newbies to post and start it all over again. :p
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Make the pain stop...
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(http://www.togrc.com/forums/image.php?ID=&u=19313&dateline=1088783300)
I like this smily alot. :p
You know there was an old phrase that I would like to quote, "Your beating a dead horse" this topic should have been over a longggggg time ago.
:mad2: We can proceed the hard way or the impossible way which is it? :devil:
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Funny, I always heard it as "beating a dead whore", which has entirely other connotations, and more to do with car trunks and well-hidden bonfires just outside of city limits than anything so vague...
This thread is now about dead hookers, specifically humor regarding and shared experiences of. Discuss.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Funny, I always heard it as "beating a dead whore", which has entirely other connotations, and more to do with car trunks and well-hidden bonfires just outside of city limits than anything so vague...
This thread is now about dead hookers, specifically humor regarding and shared experiences of. Discuss.
:drevil:
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With Stryke's pithy comment, this discussion is now over until the next Derek Smart Update™.
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Oh, and for you two jokers who got it in late cause the closed dind't go through, DENIED. :devil: