Author Topic: Some the AI evades too well or the missiles are too dumb?  (Read 13153 times)

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Offline ShivanSpS

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Some the AI evades too well or the missiles are too dumb?
Yes, well, this is nothing new, but... Someone noticed the some missiles are too dumb compared to the same missile in retail?? Rockeye and Hornets especially, Tornedos some in the third place and Harpoons in the Four...

OK, the Harpoons are acceptable, But the Hornets cant hit anything (I just miss a Faustus!), Rockeye lost its retail accuracy... For esample in the Trinity Mission I able to destroy about 6 Dragons which Rockeye in retail, and How.. well.. 1 which luck.


 
Re: Some the AI evades too well or the missiles are too dumb?
I've noticed the missiles are basically worthless at range, but I haven't played retail in nearly ten years so I don't remember how they used to be.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Some the AI evades too well or the missiles are too dumb?
it would be nice if instead of chasing the enemy, the warhead would position itself to come in at a prependicualr angle relative to the ships velocity vector, then turn in for the kill.
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Offline taylor

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Re: Some the AI evades too well or the missiles are too dumb?
Yes, well, this is nothing new, but... Someone noticed the some missiles are too dumb compared to the same missile in retail?? Rockeye and Hornets especially, Tornedos some in the third place and Harpoons in the Four...
What build are you using as the comparison?

There was an issue where countermeasures were far better than they used to be, which greatly impacted the accuracy of missiles.  That was fixed about a month ago though.  When I was testing the fix I ran it against retail and didn't see much difference between retail and the fixed code.  That's not to say that there isn't possibly some remaining issue with missile accuracy itself however.  If you can get a good and reproducable comparison of accurary between retail and one of the RC builds then let me know and I'll take a look.

But, I seem to remember that Hornets always sucked.  :)

 

Offline Wanderer

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Re: Some the AI evades too well or the missiles are too dumb?
Yeah.. i think i almost never hit anything with Hornets in retail FS2... Harpoons roxor though
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Offline Mars

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Re: Some the AI evades too well or the missiles are too dumb?
Hornets were good in FS1, in FS2 I could never hit things with them

 

Offline achtung

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Re: Some the AI evades too well or the missiles are too dumb?
Tornadoes and Harpoons FTW!
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Re: Some the AI evades too well or the missiles are too dumb?
i remember when i was playing retail, all of my tornados hit dead on, now they hit 50% of the time or less...

hmmmm

 

Offline Mefustae

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Re: Some the AI evades too well or the missiles are too dumb?
With soem of the later builds, i've noticed that all missiles I use simply don't track about 20% of the time. I have a good lock, nice range, and great target, and yet the missile will just go straight and ignore the target. Anyone else seen this, or am I going crazy?

 

Offline ShivanSpS

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Re: Some the AI evades too well or the missiles are too dumb?
Its stil lack accuracy, but is better now... I the last builds (9, 17th and later) I almost 100% using Harpoorns and Tempets :P

But you Right, in FS2 the Hornets dont hit almost anything In FS1 the hornets are just great. But in FS2 the Hornet are used to Kill freighters, Cruisers, Faustus :P, Even those can "evade" it if you dont take some caution :O

Buy I still Remember that In FS2 retail I can use Hornets Vs Bombers from the rear.

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: Some the AI evades too well or the missiles are too dumb?
Yeah, well...

There are differences in homing and approach techniques in missiles, of course.

The more advanced missiles (Harpoon and Torpedo) use lead homing technicue quite well... that is, they fly towards the point where the enemy craft will be when the missile has traveled to that point. If the target changes its velocity vector, the missile's homing system counts a new lead point and heads there instead. These missiles are much more difficult than Rock-Eyes and Hornets to evade without use of countermeasures, because it's more difficult to get inside the missile's turn radius.

Getting inside a missile's turn radius is an effective way to evade any missile, but with the leading missiles it demands a very fast and maneuverable ship with even faster afterburner speed. It's quite difficult to try and avoid a Harpoon without CM's if you are in an Ursa, but on the other hand, a Perseus does it quite well (or even a Herc 2).

The Rock-Eye and Hornet, on the other hand, use direct homing system. That is, they are always steered towards the target's current position. While this works quite well for targets that have slow angular velocity from the missile's point of view, this technique naturally makes it easy to avoid these missiles with fast velocity vector changes - that is, position your craft so that the missile approaches from side, top or bottom, then hit the burners so that you get inside the missile's turn radius and the missile swoops past your back and loses the target lock.

I myself don't think the missiles are too weak, or that the AI would be too smart. I actually think that the reason why the ships are equipped with so many space-to-space missiles (developed for taking down fighters) is that it's not easy to destroy enemy ships with missiles always. The counter-measures are effective as long as the enemy has them, and if the pilot is good and has a fast maneuverable craft, they should be able to avoid missiles.


Oh, and the best missiles against fighters (in this order) are the Harpoon, the Tempest and the Tornado.

-Harpoon has good homing devices, it's fast and when it hits it shreds.

-Tempest is dumbfire of course, but you get s***loads of these in, say, Myrmidon or a Herc 2. They can be effectively used against fighters in close perimeter combat, in conjunction with primary weapons. Against bombers they are better, and they can also be used to take out freighters, cruisers or larger cap ships' sub systems or weapons.

-Tornado... upgraded Hornet. Not really good against fastest fighters IMO, but of course when you get it to hit, it kills or at least badly damages a fighter, and nicely lowers a bomber's shields. If your wingmen manage to stay alive, they can kill cruisers easily with either Hornets or Tornados, not to mention freighters.


By the way, have you noticed that if you fire a Cyclops or a Helios towards an enemy fighter or bomber, it doesn't lose the lock when it inevitably passes the target? It turns back, slowly but surely, and starts chasing the target... I've managed to kill a few Basilisks with Cyclops, actually. Or perhaps they were Helioses... Can't remember. :lol:
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Offline Mobius

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Re: Some the AI evades too well or the missiles are too dumb?
To kill a fighter with a Cyclops or a Helios you first need to take out the shields...
ShivanSpS just said what's true.I started playing with SCP just 1 or 2 months ago,and I can see with my blue eyes how those enlisted weapons work better in the retail.
They don't hit targets when they're too close...in the retail,once you launch a warhead,it starts chasing the enemy.Now I notice this happens a bit later. I enjoyed taking out Basilisks with Hornets,now I must use the Tornado or my favourite,the Tempest,to succeed on this.
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Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Some the AI evades too well or the missiles are too dumb?
I've always used FS2 Hornets primarily for killing large ships like freighters, science vessels, or some of the lightly-armored cruisers such as the Fenris/Aten/Cain.
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Re: Some the AI evades too well or the missiles are too dumb?
i got killed by a  helios once, even with shields up :wtf:, i have no idea wat happened...

 

Offline Kon

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Re: Some the AI evades too well or the missiles are too dumb?
They don't hit targets when they're too close...in the retail,once you launch a warhead,it starts chasing the enemy.Now I notice this happens a bit later.

Yes! This is exactly what happens.  I can't use missles up close anymore, because they go straight instead of at the enemy.

 

Offline Wanderer

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Re: Some the AI evades too well or the missiles are too dumb?
Missiles are supposed not to home for the first 250 milliseconds of their 'life'
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Offline Nuke

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Re: Some the AI evades too well or the missiles are too dumb?
that was only supposed to apply to swarmers, bombs, and corkscrew weapons, missiles such as tempests, rockeyes and harpoons i dont  remember ever seeing them using the free flight time.
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: Some the AI evades too well or the missiles are too dumb?
Well.. to me it looked it was supposed to apply to all homing missiles (leaving tempests unaffacted).. But then again i'm not that familiar with C/C++ or the method used in the code for the missile homing system. However according to these it looks like all homing missiles are supposed to have different 'initial velocity' for the first 1/4 seconds and then change that into the 'real' set velocity.
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Offline WMCoolmon

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Offline Wanderer

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Re: Some the AI evades too well or the missiles are too dumb?
Yeah... but that doesnt exactly explain the possible change from the retail behaviour (if there ever has been one). I havent really seen any significant different apart from the recent countermeasure problem but then again i havent played retail version for a while. Setting $Free Flight Time: to 0 would solve the the issue.

WMC... please move the ':' in the end of the link inside it...
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