[taylor]

Setting $Free Flight Time: to 0 would solve the the issue.

But then it would actually deviate from retail behavior.  Retail waits the 0.25 seconds, and that is the default value for $Free Flight Time:.

I haven't seen any change though.  When I was trying to fix the countermeasure affectiveness issue I played FS2_Open and retail side-by-side to work out the differences.  Once I was done I didn't see any difference from retail to the missile handling (I was testing Harpoons) or countermeasure effectiveness.  There has already been several long discussions on what retail did or didn't do for a supposed AI bug, only to find that the behaviour was nearly, if not exactly, identical between the two versions.  Someone will have to provide a test mission that can demonstrate the differences from retail to current FS2_Open for all of this before any dev is likely to spend time on it.

[Mobius]

Setting $Free Flight Time: to 0 would solve the the issue.

But then it would actually deviate from retail behavior.  Retail waits the 0.25 seconds, and that is the default value for $Free Flight Time:.

I haven't seen any change though.  When I was trying to fix the countermeasure affectiveness issue I played FS2_Open and retail side-by-side to work out the differences.  Once I was done I didn't see any difference from retail to the missile handling (I was testing Harpoons) or countermeasure effectiveness.  There has already been several long discussions on what retail did or didn't do for a supposed AI bug, only to find that the behaviour was nearly, if not exactly, identical between the two versions.  Someone will have to provide a test mission that can demonstrate the differences from retail to current FS2_Open for all of this before any dev is likely to spend time on it.

They don't hit targets when they're too close...in the retail,once you launch a warhead,it starts chasing the enemy.Now I notice this happens a bit later.

Yes! This is exactly what happens.  I can't use missles up close anymore, because they go straight instead of at the enemy.

We have sufficient proofs to demonstrate that this problem exists,and solving it will be better.
How'd you kill Dragons at close distance now? Or you try to take them down with lasers,or you use the tempest dumbfire.
Anyway this "killed" the original FreeSpace 2.
I also noticed(this is a bit off-topic)that when playing the main campaign missions something strange happens.
1)The Phoenicia always goes down.
2)In High Noon,the Colossus strangely moves on the side of the Sathanas.I remember it was a fluid movement in the retail,now it shakes.
Maybe there's something else I didn't notice.

[Nuclear1]

We have sufficient proofs to demonstrate that this problem exists,and solving it will be better.
How'd you kill Dragons at close distance now? Or you try to take them down with lasers,or you use the tempest dumbfire.

I've never had a problem with firing missiles in close. The only times the missiles misfire for me is when I've launched them too close or at a bad angle where they would have been useless anyway. All that's necessary to kill a Dragon is to swing on its tail for even a few seconds, lock a pair of Harpoons onto it while softening its rear shields, and then let them loose.

[Mobius]

I played with the reatail until about 1/2 months ago,my mind is fresh. I remember everything and I continue to say that there's something bad-fixed with those secondary weapons.

You give for sure that a Dragon continues to fly straight with the player on its tails. Dragons are capable..ehm..we now that.
In the retail I could take a Dragon down it a small amount of time,when it was close and appeared without warning on the center of the HUD. in the retail I had sufficient time to gain a lock with a little maneuver and launch missiles. Now I gain a lock,but then..you know.

I think fizing this won't require so much time.

[CP5670]

I haven't noticed any difference with this, although it might just be because I tend to use tempests most of the time anyway.

[Zacam]

In regards to tempests and AI, I just played through FS1 on an older machine (one that could actually run it, since my XP box cannot) and I do know that when the Shivans first arrive for you to combat (When escorting the Plato) it was a good bit easier to actually KILL a shivan vessel. In some occasions, I'd even manage to kill TWO (though never three. My roomate managed it through a fluke of nailing the first two in conjunction with two of his "wingmates" but I never got that lucky..)

Now, I have one HELL of a time killing one and that's on EASY, and usually involves deliberatly ramming it a few times and more often than not I'm killing it _just_ as it's trying to warp out.

Though, I have noticed that missile aiming/leading behaviour is significantly better in the multi_test.rar build and in the light_test.rar builds that were posted to target specific (other) issues, I'm going to see how well they bear out on a full FS1/FS2 run now that I have something live right next to me to compare them to.

I suspect (though I could be wrong) that what ever was keeping the missiles from spinning on their centers in the loadout/techroom screens may have caused for anomolies in thier flight behavior as well, especially if it was looking at turning controls in conjunction with thrust delivery being focused on the nose instead of the "center of gravity" for the missile.

Just a guess, though.

[Mars]

I once managed to kill all of them on easy, in the FSport... it broke the mission.

[Zacam]

There is nothing defined in the mission to cause it to "break" in the event they all die. Unless the plato was still around at which point you have to kill it yourself.

[Nuclear1]

I think fizing this won't require so much time.

That's something you never say in the SCP forum. At all.

The deal is unless you know the exact part of the code that needs fixing and you know how to fix it, don't diagnose the problem as easy or not.

I haven't noticed any difference with this, although it might just be because I tend to use tempests most of the time anyway.

I habitually use Harpoons/Interceptors and I always seem to have an easy time in taking down fast ships like Manticores, Valks, Hors, etc. on the first pass with both ships moving in with afterburners. The missiles seem to work just fine for me at least.

[Mobius]

I think fizing this won't require so much time.

That's something you never say in the SCP forum. At all.

The deal is unless you know the exact part of the code that needs fixing and you know how to fix it, don't diagnose the problem as easy or not.

According to what I understand, there's something wrong on the weapon entries(0.25 secs of inactivity).

Several members said simply that this "bug" exists,other say the contrary. I have no intention of fixing this all by myself(I don't know how).
What we want is to to adjust this,a thing only SCP members can do.

[Wanderer]

According to what I understand, there's something wrong on the weapon entries(0.25 secs of inactivity).

Nope.. Thats not wrong. It has been there already in the retail FS2.

[taylor]

The 0.25 seconds of inactivity is NOT a bug, retail does exactly the same thing.  It is not going to be changed.

As I've already mentioned, for those who see the problem in game, provide us with the exact steps/mission/everything needed to reproduce the same effect in retail and FS2_Open.  We aren't going to change anything until there is a way to replicate and continuously reproduce any AI issue.  With as many people saying there is a problem as there are saying there isn't, and with no developer seeing a problem, this is a total non-issue until there is true evidence to the contrary.  No one has shown that there actually is a bug to fix yet, and until that happens we aren't going to give this a second thought.

[Mobius]

According to what I understand, there's something wrong on the weapon entries(0.25 secs of inactivity).

Nope.. Thats not wrong. It has been there already in the retail FS2.

0.25 is what it should be with SCP too,but isn't.

The 0.25 seconds of inactivity is NOT a bug, retail does exactly the same thing.  It is not going to be changed.

As I've already mentioned, for those who see the problem in game, provide us with the exact steps/mission/everything needed to reproduce the same effect in retail and FS2_Open.  We aren't going to change anything until there is a way to replicate and continuously reproduce any AI issue.  With as many people saying there is a problem as there are saying there isn't, and with no developer seeing a problem, this is a total non-issue until there is true evidence to the contrary.  No one has shown that there actually is a bug to fix yet, and until that happens we aren't going to give this a second thought.

First you have to check who says that there's a bug on who says not.
I prefer not to call it a bug,the game doesn't crash because of it. I'm new here,and only a month ago(approx)I got SCP.If I notice some kind of bug with SCP but people who play with it since 2002 or at least two years say that no bug is present...
Maybe it's something that grew up with SCP,they didn't noticed its presence when they played the first time and now don't remember how it was with the retail.

What should I do now?Provide two different videos so you can notice the difference?
FS Open doesn't remove the old retail launcher. You can try it every time you want.
See also the previous posts here. There are many members on my side.

[taylor]

0.25 is what it should be with SCP too,but isn't.

Yes it is.  And I have the code to prove it.

I prefer not to call it a bug,the game doesn't crash because of it.

A deviation in default behavior, which isn't a fix for a bug in the original code that produces a known and acceptable deviation, is a bug.

What should I do now?Provide two different videos so you can notice the difference?
FS Open doesn't remove the old retail launcher. You can try it every time you want.
See also the previous posts here. There are many members on my side.

Provide a test mission, or test case, so that we can replicate the problem.  A simple video of it is of absolutely zero use to us.  We have to replicate it to fix it and we won't just go changing things on a whim, especially with the AI, unless we can actually test that it works or not.

And as I have already said, I HAVE tested it in retail.  I don't see a problem.  I spent 3 days just testing missile and countermeasure behavior against retail not 2 months ago.  I did see, and fix, a bug with countermeasures but I did not see any problem with missiles.

I don't give a crap about sides or who says what.  Either there is a bug or there isn't and that's all that matters.  But I don't see it, and none of the other devs have come forward to say that they see it.  If I can't find it, I can't fix it.  Period.  Provide a test case so that I can replicate the problem on my machine and I'll take a look at fixing it.  Until then there is nothing we can do about it.

[Polpolion]

I've noticed the missiles are basically worthless at range, but I haven't played retail in nearly ten years so I don't remember how they used to be.

 

But FS2 is only 7 years old?!

[Mars]

FS1 = 8 YO ~ 10 YO

[]C[rusader]

@taylor:
Hello.  There was a mention of your tests with Harpoons during a bugfix of countermeasure code.  This thread appeared to centre on alleged "Hornet dumbness / inaccuracy / poor tracking ability".  If you could clarify, i'd be thankful--is it necessary at all, to specifically compare the code / behaviour of 'retail Hornets' versus 'SCP Hornets'?  Did your earlier tests already cover such a comparison?

[taylor]

@taylor:
Hello.  There was a mention of your tests with Harpoons during a bugfix of countermeasure code.  This thread appeared to centre on alleged "Hornet dumbness / inaccuracy / poor tracking ability".  If you could clarify, i'd be thankful--is it necessary at all, to specifically compare the code / behaviour of 'retail Hornets' versus 'SCP Hornets'?  Did your earlier tests already cover such a comparison?

I didn't test Hornets at all while I was working on that code fix.  I tested Harpoons mainly, but also Tornados a bit.  The code for all of them is the same though, only the tbl entries make the difference.

...  Just did a quick test though, and Hornets appear to work the same in retail and FS2_Open with my standard AI fire test mission.  And by the same, I mean equally useless.

[Wanderer]

Perhaps there could be some differences in missile handling in FreeSpace and FreeSpace 2 (and not between FS2 and FS_Open).. That might explain why people think that there is something wrong with the missiles. That is i dont know if the FS used the free flight time that is in FS2.

[taylor]

Perhaps there could be some differences in missile handling in FreeSpace and FreeSpace 2 (and not between FS2 and FS_Open).. That might explain why people think that there is something wrong with the missiles. That is i dont know if the FS used the free flight time that is in FS2.

There are deffinitely differences between FS and FS2 in the weapons code.  I'm still trying to figure them all out for the icculus.org FS port.  I haven't tried retail FS in a while though (at least not in a mission) so I can't remember whether it did the whole free flight thing or not.