[phatosealpha]

Fubar, can you please list 10 DRM free games you built a top of the line computer to play?

[blackhole]

Fubar, can you please list 10 DRM free games you built a top of the line computer to play?

Crysis, anyone?

But you raise an important point - Where are all the good games that don't have DRM? There aren't many of them. This is because the game industry is stupid, lacks common sense and is full of greedy corporate dishrags that need to be put through the washer. It shouldn't cost millions of dollars to make a game, because then you just get overproduced pieces of **** with DRM. The game industry is floundering in the water with no lifevest because they are using a production model that is outdated and broken. I can literally make a more polished game the Fallout 3 by myself with the help of a single artist. It won't have gigabytes of content, but it will be stable, it will have good gameplay, it won't cost a fortune, it won't need updates to fix critical bugs that shouldn't exist in a final product, and it will be polished, like Diablo II, halo, Descent 3, FREESPACE 2, even Freelancer, that oh-crap-we-have-to-finish-this-game product that was shoved out the door was more polished and stable and had a better design the Fallsuck 3, DracoSporeDRM and Gears of I-can't-figure-out-how-big-my-installation-file-is.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

I don't know if I can do 10 and it's been 2 years since I built the last one for gaming:  Couple of the last games I bought were Doom 3 and Darkstar 1.  Games that I've built a system to run in the past include Unreal (the original), FS2 (of course), RTCW, Diablo II.  Like I said I haven't bought any games in the last couple of years due to DRM and the last ones I bought all sucking (DarkStar 1 was good but no multi).

The ones I bought that sucked were:  the entire Medal of honor collection up to Pacific assault.  Battlefront II, KOTOR 2 (not even an ending for the dark side).  There are a few others but I don't remember the names and the disks are in the bottom of my filing cabinet. 

Now I have built a couple of other systems but they were for media and well a general all purpose core2quad which was close to top of the line especially in the Vid card area. 


How about a couple of games I didn't buy because of DRM or stupid console only:

FarCry console only one between 1 and 2.  Not sure what it was called.
FarCry 2
Halo 2 and above
Spore
Almost forgot Fallout 3 and since I never played them I would have bought 1 & 2 to play first.


I know there are more that were console only. 

[Flipside]

Top of The Line is not necessary for a good game anyway, a good game is needed, Grand Theft Auto IV, for example, actually puts a drag on the system by running Social Club in the background all the time, which ups the spec requirements, yes, it can be disabled, but then you cannot play multiplayer, and it defaults to permanently on, I wouldn't be surprised if there are more games that add to the system requirements purely because of the DRM it uses, and that STILL doesn't address the fact that without 'pirate' type software (i.e. a No-CD crack) I cannot play games that I have paid for.

How does wanting to play something that I've already paid for make me a 'Pirate Apologist' as you so charmingly put it?

[FUBAR-BDHR]

Nope it's not but I've always figure if your going to build one build the best you can.  This system that I built back in 03 I think probably still meets specs for every game released as long as Vista isn't a requirement. 

Another thing I always hated was the disk required to play thing.  I have multiple computers in 2 locations.  If I want to play in both locations or on a different system I have to physically move the disks, make copies, or run a no-CD crack.

[Flipside]

Discs age as well, that's why the law used to state that you were allowed to make a back-up copy of things, because there's no such thing as indestructable media, but even that right has been taken away by the DMCA, so, not only are you only buying a license to play the game, but if the media itself gets damaged, you are expected to pay for another license to play the same game.

[Dilmah G]

Discs age as well, that's why the law used to state that you were allowed to make a back-up copy of things, because there's no such thing as indestructable media, but even that right has been taken away by the DMCA, so, not only are you only buying a license to play the game, but if the media itself gets damaged, you are expected to pay for another license to play the same game.

Really? When and where did that get changed? Mother****

[Flipside]

The DMCA made it illegal in 1998, a revision in 2003, means that their is some fair use protection for obsolete Video games, but no cover has ever been provided for simply making a secure back-up of non-obsolete ones, so if your disc dies before the game stops being sold, you have to buy a new copy under letter of law.

[Dilmah G]

The DMCA made it illegal in 1998, a revision in 2003, means that their is some fair use protection for obsolete Video games, but no cover has ever been provided for simply making a secure back-up of non-obsolete ones, so if your disc dies before the game stops being sold, you have to buy a new copy under letter of law.

That's GAY! GAAARRRGH!

[Daniel P]

Some times you can't even backup a PC game.

When I Backed up a New game not damage (yes I back up some new game) and burn it into a blank CD

The program think the Game CD is corrupted. IT happen more than 3 times. Esp Redalert 2 and C@C Generals.

And those CD is getting Aged. IT got to be Some sort of DRM. 

[Flipside]

It is, simple disc-disc copying is practically impossible these days for any commercial software.

[Dilmah G]

It is, simple disc-disc copying is practically impossible these days for any commercial software.

Alcohol 120%/52% seems to do the job admirably

[Flipside]

I'll admit I haven't tried that program, but mostly you can copy the data, even install the program from it, but it will refuse to run.

[Dilmah G]

I'll admit I haven't tried that program, but mostly you can copy the data, even install the program from it, but it will refuse to run.

Well it's like daemon tools, makes a disc image, but alcohol utilises several methods (which can be time-consuming) to get past copy-protection, apparently, or to the length of my understanding anyway

[BloodEagle]

Okay. Now try to beat the Dreamcast's GB-discs. 

I've never gotten third-party software to run on it.

[kalnaren]

I was going to chime in here with a rather long winded response to some of the stuff in the last couple of pages, but Flipside has hit pretty much every point I wanted to make.

A few things I want to say again anyway:

PC Game companies are not losing tons of sales due to piracy, just like the music industry isn't. They're losing sales due to developing ****ty, boring games -just like the music industry is losing money due to signing on ****ty artists noone wants to listen to. Spore, one of the most hyped games of all time (and most pirated), is actually boring once you beat it once or twice. There is very little replay value. I played a friends copy... and glad I did because I never would shell out $60+ for that game. Companies like EA and Ubisoft have become so paranoid to venture into new grounds that they're trying to "improve" existing models by throwing tons of money at it instead of actually innovating. That's their business model. It works on consoles (where little Jonny's parents will buy him every new game), but it doesn't work on PC near as well. Look at Crysis. It's not a terrible game, but it sure as hell isn't that amazing, yet EA's main selling point for it was "ohh... it's SHINY!" An example of how to it right is Sins of a Solar Empire -it was developed for under $1 million and is one of the most fun RTS games I've played in a long time. It's innovative. It does things differently. And Stardock (unlike EA and Ubisoft) doesn't treat its customers like criminals. I'm happy to support a company that makes games I want to play, based on what I tell them I want in a game. EA makes games they want you to play based on what they say you want. That doesn't work in PC gaming... but it works on consoles.

Another thing to consider is being able to trade in a console game. If you shell out $60 for a ****ty game, you have the option of reclaiming a portion of that by selling it back or trading it. No such option exists for PC games, since by law it's illegal to resell opened PC software. This makes PC game buyers much more weary of spending money... and makes people download games to decide if they want to buy them. I've done that a couple of times with FEAR and Dawn of War. I DL'd the full game, liked it, and bought it. I've also downloaded a couple of games that I'm really glad I never spent $60 on. Seriously, spending money on PC gaming is like rolling a pair of dice and hoping you land a pair of 6's. At least on console you get a saving throw.

I can't remember who said it in this thread, but someone said it's not piracy that's the problem, it's the business model. That's so true. Again, see the music industry... they refuse to admit that piracy isn't the problem -actually, there have been at least 5 studies that say music piracy actually increases record sales.. and none to the contrary. I know the same doesn't hold true for PC games.. but this "piracy is killing PC games" is bull****. ****ty games that people don't want to spend $60 on is killing PC games.

[blackhole]

If game execs were smart, they'd give a game good singleplayer and awesome multiplayer, so then everyone will pirate the single player and like it so much they buy the full game so they can play the multiplayer. This is the phenomenon that made diablo II so ridiculously successful.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

Or just release the single player as a free download in the first place that way there is little overhead.  You pay your fee, you get your personal code, and you can play all the multi you want wherever you want. 

This again brigs up the problem with stolen codes.  Pretty sure Diablo II had the same problem.  A bunch of codes were activated before the games were even sold.  So you got the CD and couldn't play online until you got a new code.  Of course they weren't idiots about it like the EA spore fiasco.

[Daniel P]

What about this

1:) Make computer with a number starting 1 to infinity on it bios.
2:) Download or buy the game
3:) Enter serial Code
4:) Check Computer BIO number
5:) Give customer the full version

Because BIOs is read only making DRM obsolete.

Like for example Your computer crash and you EULA say that 2 computers per license.

Computer 1: BIO number 6 // registered User
Computer 2: BIO number 2436 // registered User

IF you go over 2 computer the program prevents you from downloading/playing the game.

You can still downloaded because the license say that you register the game.

IF you want to remove the game simply delete the game and your license say you got one computer.

[The E]

What about this

1:) Make computer with a number starting 1 to infinity on it bios.
2:) Download or buy the game
3:) Enter serial Code
4:) Check Computer BIO number
5:) Give customer the full version

Because BIOs is read only making DRM obsolete.

Like for example Your computer crash and you EULA say that 2 computers per license.

Computer 1: BIO number 6 // registered User
Computer 2: BIO number 2436 // registered User

IF you go over 2 computer the program prevents you from downloading/playing the game.

You can still downloaded because the license say that you register the game.

IF you want to remove the game simply delete the game and your license say you got one computer.

Won't work. Reasons:
1. The BIOS is most definitely NOT read-only.
2. If i understand you correctly, this requires some form of remote activation by the game's producers; this could be problematic if those producers go bankrupt or decide to shut down the servers doing the activation.
3. DRM should never, EVER require me to register something online. I have no problems with keeping the game's disc in my drive in order to play, but needing an active internet connection to play a single-player game is just wrong.