Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Vasudan Commander on January 12, 2007, 04:17:04 am
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Something always bothered me.
Now, i played Freespace 1, but i never played the expansion to that, Silent Threat, where you see the involvement with the GTI Hades-class destroyer and all that.
But in FRED, i saw how big the thing was, and with beam cannons, what it can do. Now i wonder....why didnt the GTVA build another ? Surely they had the construction plans for it. It would've made a damn fine capital ship. What the Lucifer was for the shivans, the Hades would be for the GTVA.....
Oh well....just another mystery.
Oh, by the way....i havent played Freespace 1 -or- silent threat for MANY years now, and i lost my cd copy....anywhere i can download it ? i checked HOTU, but it isnt there. :confused:
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give me a few days and the cds will be uploaded to my site :)
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Or you could try the Port, Silent Threat is included, but I would recommend waiting for the guys to bring out Silent Threat : Reborn. :nod:
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he wasnt asking for port though :P
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I've never really known why whatever was learnt in the Hades project was kept secret, the secret of making hulls as tough as Shivan hulls would have been one that would have been adopted pretty swiftly I would have thought, can you imagine the shock it would have given the Ravanna?
I can only assume that the costs of constructing the Hades were prohibitive of larger scale production, though I'm surprised the tech has apparently vanished entirely from the GTVA.
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I still thought it was bs that you had to sit there for 10 minutes in the last mission and pound it with bombs.
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well the Hades as i remember was classified as a superdestroyer. The general design of the hades war rather inefective if you look at it from where designs specs went in the GTVA . As far as I can remember it folowed the classic design of the shivans with forward facing firepower. But then again i could be wrong!
Anyway the fact that the tech from the Hades seems to have been lost seems rather....questioning at best. I mean all those good advanced teh simply disapearing is such a shame. Would of loved to see how powefull the Collie would of been with all that advanced shivan tech. At least in terms of hull strenght.
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well the Hades as i remember was classified as a superdestroyer. The general design of the hades war rather inefective if you look at it from where designs specs went in the GTVA . As far as I can remember it folowed the classic design of the shivans with forward facing firepower. But then again i could be wrong!
Anyway the fact that the tech from the Hades seems to have been lost seems rather....questioning at best. I mean all those good advanced teh simply disapearing is such a shame. Would of loved to see how powefull the Collie would of been with all that advanced shivan tech. At least in terms of hull strenght.
It's not AFAIK entirely clear how strong the Hades was, because of the table differences between it (and the Lucifer) from FS1 to FS2. For example, I believe V made it clear that the Lucifer shield was only impenetrable to FS1 era weaponry (but we don't see that reflected in a massive numberical increase in tbl stats)
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its funny because they had to give the lucifer the invunerability flag instead of actually giving it a shield
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Lol... they should have put a shield that blocks like 60% of damage from non-beam weapons... how hard would it really be to do it? Make something in the general shape and put it over the ship!
Anyways... the Hades is a cool design; the tech would be awesome, though it was lost or highly classified. Perhaps they used some tech on the Deimos... it has a very strong hull for a corvette.
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The Deimos has the same hull as many corvettes.
And guys, Shivan hulls ARE NOT THAT THICK. Look at the fighters. 100 hp.
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The Deimos has the same hull as many corvettes.
And guys, Shivan hulls ARE NOT THAT THICK. Look at the fighters. 100 hp.
I don't think the strength of fighter hulls is a fair indication; after all, Shivan fighters would seem to rely more on shielding than physical defences (I believe in general they have higher shields than most Terran fighters). And also seem to be pissed away like water by the Shivans, so maybe survivability is less of a concern anyways.
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The Hades does have one huge weak point: The engines...
It only takes a few seconds and the Hades is disabled... Even with weaker Beams...
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Well we cant have a perfect ship now can we. But the one area where the GTVA could of benefited the most would of been the beam tech, shields and subspace tech. It would be invaluable to the GTVA especialy the subspace tech.
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If all ships in the GTVA were outfitted with shielding, the Shivans would be in for a surprise. Unless of course they miraculously suddenly have shields too, as in FS2.
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AFAIK beams go right through shields... making shielded destroyers moot
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No beam pierce flag?
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I mean canonically...
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Mars and canon.
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its funny because they had to give the lucifer the invunerability flag instead of actually giving it a shield
It's funny how making it invincible seemed better than making a ****ing huge shield mesh that would have looked awkward anyways. Sheath shielding actually works on an FS ship. :P
The Hades is a powerful beast, aptly named, sending ships to hell and all. :D (Or a firey explosions OF hell) It just has a really awkward design and is far too powerful in terms of hitpoints. (Except in its engines.)
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I guess the simple answer to this would be: Why put the time and effort into building another Hades when something much bigger and better was probably already being planned -- The Colossus?
The more correct answer migght be: The GTI who built the Hades tried to overthrow the GTA. How much of the plans were lost in the conflict?
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I guess piecs of it but the esentials would still be there! Traitors or not they had an invaluable piece of technology at they disposal and from we know of GTVA command they are really greedy when it comes to taking advantage of things like these. Especialy since they already defeated the GTI !
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Mars and canon.
Honestly in this particular conversation it has to be canon or it will erupt into another "Uber-cruiser of doom" thread.
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In one of my mods, there is a mission where you see the GTC Ubermorder testing out a new type of beam cannon, and it cuts an entire planet in half.
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Maybe someone should make a FS2 campaign about a new Hades or something like that.
Personally, i reckon the Hades would've made a good flagship for the NTF.
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The GTC Ubermorder could easily cut it to pieces with its OMGWTFBBQSALADGreen.
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For example, I believe V made it clear that the Lucifer shield was only impenetrable to FS1 era weaponry
And I insist that all that talk of the Colossus being able to defeat the Lucifer was standard GTVA propaganda bull****.
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For example, I believe V made it clear that the Lucifer shield was only impenetrable to FS1 era weaponry
And I insist that all that talk of the Colossus being able to defeat the Lucifer was standard GTVA propaganda bull****.
As far as we can tell the Luci was armed with two SRed scale beams... so yeah... the Colossus would cream it. Even with it's SSLs the Lucifer still succumbs to the collie I believe.
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For example, I believe V made it clear that the Lucifer shield was only impenetrable to FS1 era weaponry
And I insist that all that talk of the Colossus being able to defeat the Lucifer was standard GTVA propaganda bull****.
We all acknowledge Command as not being the brightest banana in the bunch, but do you really think that they would have sunk twenty years and God knows how much money into a project that they weren't even sure would perform as it was intended?
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If it was designed as a Lucifer killer, which I highly doubt, then it was designed to kill it in subspace. The Colossus would have to chase the lucifer down the node and kill it in the small amount of time available, which would explain why most of it's firepower is pointed for broadsides.
But regardless, The GTVA wasn't interested in a Lucifer killer. A few wings of fighters and bombers could do that. The Colossus was rather designed to garuntee victory in the set piece battles that the that the Shivans kept wiping the floor with the GTA in.
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No... we've established that beam cannons can go through shields, therefore the Colossus can kill the Lucifer anywhere.
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Then allow me to beat a dead horse and express doubt that the pierce shield mechanic would work on Lucifer type shielding.
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Ok back to the hades. I think :v: lower it hitpoints shows that if the GTVA did recreate it they didn't do a very good job.
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I always figured the Hades to be the GTVA's answer to the Lucifer.....hmmm
Anyway, a question still stands ; does anyone know where I can download Freespace 1 and Freespace : Silent Threat ?
Oh, and whats this talk about Freespace : Reborn ? Is that like Freespace with the SCP mod ?
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You're thinking of "Silent Threat: Reborn". There was allot of dissatisfaction with the Silent Threat plot and mission design. The FS-Port team, while porting The Great War and Silent Threat into the FS2 engine, decided to re-create Silent Threat, with the same premise, but with allot better story. Not too much is known beyond that, except that we hope it will be released sometime this year.
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Silent Threat is even harder to find than FS1, which is harder to find than FS2. :P
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The Deimos has the same hull as many corvettes.
And guys, Shivan hulls ARE NOT THAT THICK. Look at the fighters. 100 hp.
the Shivan Fighters are very light, and therefore much manouverable. fire a bit heavier weapon at them an they're blasted away like if youre using a morning star.
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All FS1 Fighters had crap hulls. Including the Basilisk.
But that's besides the point. Have a nice day.
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The Deimos has the same hull as many corvettes.
And guys, Shivan hulls ARE NOT THAT THICK. Look at the fighters. 100 hp.
the Shivan Fighters are very light, and therefore much manouverable. fire a bit heavier weapon at them an they're blasted away like if youre using a morning star.
maneuverable ? pfffft. Look at the Basilisk or Aeshma (i think thats how its spelt) . I dont know what class of fighters they are (Heavy assault), but they fly like a retarded seagull.
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maneuverable ? pfffft. Look at the Basilisk or Aeshma (i think thats how its spelt) . I dont know what class of fighters they are (Heavy assault), but they fly like a retarded seagull.
ROFLMFAO OMG, thats hallarious.
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The Aeshma doesn't even have afterburner, IIRC. It may.
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AFAIK there are a number of ships the shivans have that dont have afterburners.
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What does IIRC and AFAIK mean ?
Damn you and you're secret forum speech terms :hopping:
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IIRC = I don't know someone else take this one.
AFAIK = "As Far As I Know"
Answer to where you can get FS1 and Silent Threat:
The Freespace Port (http://fsport.hard-light.net/website/)
Essentially install it as you would any other FS2 mod. Contains all the original sounds, voices, missions, etc. I heard talk somewhere that the Port team subtly altered some parts of the story... but I've never seen evidence to support it. (One thing they mentioned was not having the Vasudan Ace appear, but he did appear on my copy so... *shrugs*).
Do not get your hopes up about Silent Threat though. I can hardly believe it came out of the same team that made FS1/FS2. Two good things were in it though: the Hades and the M10 music. :)
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IIRC = I don't know someone else take this one.
IIRC, it's "If I Recall Correctly" :P
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Ah. I'd always wondered about that one. :nod:
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Maybe someone should make a FS2 campaign about a new Hades or something like that.
Personally, i reckon the Hades would've made a good flagship for the NTF.
Except that the Hades isn't what the NTF needed. The Iceni was built to be a quick-jumping, fast-moving vessel that could easily evade larger forces, whereas the Hades was built simply to destroy anything and everything in its path. While the ETAK technology may have been useful in the Hades, it is assumed that Bosch had no intention of eradicating the GTVA, but merely getting his plan in action. For that, of course, he would need a fast ship, hence the Iceni.
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i think the hades would have been a good OMGWTF class cruiser if it had harder engines, and fs2 aaa beams. the collie is still better, but think how many hades could have been made in the time between fs1 and fs2, if 1 hades can be made in the time between fs1 and silent threat. IMO the collective firepower of those hades would outweigh the collie
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You know, I just had a thought reading this thread:
Perhaps the reason the Hades wasn't rebuilt was because it COULDN'T be rebuilt.
Think on this for a moment: What if under all that armor, there was a Shivan ship? The GTI didn't build the damn thing in the first place, they just referbished a Shivan vessel (or parts from a Shivan vessel) into what we call the Hades. Perhaps they managed to get a power core from a Demon, or hull plates, or something. At it's heart, the Hades was Shivan, and they couldn't replicate it again. That would explain why we don't see the Hades again.
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Alternate theory:
We don't know how long it took the GTI to build Hades. Silent Threat was... a couple months after the end of FS1, right? The GTI probably had been building the Hades for a very long time before FS1 ended. They could have grafted the Shivan tech on later, after meeting the Shivans. They may even have been researching the Shivans before the GTA at large discovered them. After all, there were rumors of "phantom ships" attacking Riviera Station long before the Shivans made themselves known to the Alliance at large. What did Command do? Probably under orders from GTI, they tried to quash the rumors.
I think the GTI Rebellion was in the works for a long time before the Great War (that is, the war against the Shivans, I'm not talking about the T-V War) even began. The Great War probably even slowed it down a bit; common enemies and all that. The Hades was always gonna be their main weapon, developed in secret, and the Shivan tech it was using was simply an added bonus.
The Shivan research was all locked up by Command, likely in the hopes of preventing another GTI Rebellion. Therefore, construction of the Hades as it was would be impossible unless the Shivan research was unlocked again.
Take a look at this, part of the Tech Room description of the Hades:
After the defeat of the GTI and the destruction of the Hades, the GTA classified the details of this research at level Omega. There are rumors that the Alliance has attempted to reconstruct the Hades to learn more about the GTI's activities. These reports have yet to be confirmed by government sources.
Don't know about you, but that makes me think that the Hades might have reappeared in FS3, had it ever been made.
[/speculation]
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My theory is that the GTI's research on the Shivans is what caused the Great War.
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Don't know about you, but that makes me think that the Hades might have reappeared in FS3, had it ever been made.
[/speculation]
I think it might have appear if :v: had done a mission disk(like silent threat) for FS2
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Regarding the Shivan tech in the Hades, my theory on that is that this tech was salvaged from the Shivans. The GTVA couldn't get its hands on any more Shivan tech, so they lacked the proper materials to rebuild it. In fact, I believe that the ST mission when you have to investigate reports of GTI activity in Ross128, is in fact when GTI was stealing some of the Shivan supplies for the Hades. Granted, the GTI ships all got waxed during that mission, but its safe to assume that there would've been more tech recovery missions by GTI that just this one, and this just happened to be engagement you stumbled-upon.
I'm guessing that the GTVA COULD have rebuild the Hades, but they would've had to supplement Terran or Vasudan equipment in place of the Shivan systems they couldn't replace or reproduce. The result would've been a mere shadow of what the original was (or could have been). That said, its possible that GTVA originally set out to recreate the Hades, but these kinds of problems of patching in different equipment called the project off. The GTVA was hoping to use it as their Lucy killer for future encounters. Then the Colossus was designed, which exceeded the Hades' specs considerably, and didn't need any Shivan equipment as part of the design, and thus wouldn't need to have Terran or Vasudan equipment hacked/substituted into it.
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After the defeat of the GTI and the destruction of the Hades, the GTA classified the details of this research at level Omega. There are rumors that the Alliance has attempted to reconstruct the Hades to learn more about the GTI's activities. These reports have yet to be confirmed by government sources.
To be honest I think it's the construction of the Colossus not a second Hades that started off those rumours. Notice that it's the GTVA that is supposed to be building it not the GTA. And the plan to build the Colossus began almost immediately after the GTVA was formed.
In 2345, on the tenth anniversary of the Shivan attack on Ross 128, the Vasudan emperor Khonsu II addressed the newly formed GTVA General Assembly. The emperor inaugurated an ambitious and unprecedented joint endeavour: the GTVA Colossus.
In other words :v: are deliberately doing a nice bit of foreshadowing there and getting people to think about super ships. Kinda blew it by then sticking the Colossus in the bloody intro cutscene but they probably hadn't decided to do that yet. :)
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Well if it's one thing we know about the GTVA is that is very adapt to....adapting and improvisations. The Hades could not of been constructed with just shivan tech. I believe a great deal of it was constructed with terran tech just more advanced since they had a reference point to campare it with and had the basic instruments for geting it done. That said i believe that at least the subspace drives could of proven usefull to the GTVA if they were shivan ones that is. As for the beam tech another great sensitive area i believe this is where they should of invested a great deal more. But then again they han no idea how powerfull shivan beams were ! all they had were the Lucifer pimary weapons for comparison ! The current GTVA standard beam cannons outperformed those so they believed they were in the clear.
I wonder if the GTVA could of found a way to improve its weapons if another FS would of been made? Just a thought.
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Uhm... BTW: I always wondered, why there's a Hades on the Surface of the Planet that's shown during the intro-Video...
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Uhm... BTW: I always wondered, why there's a Hades on the Surface of the Planet that's shown during the intro-Video...
This was a quite discussed argument in a topic I opened some months ago about ground combat in the FS era.
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Hey does anyone know if any GTVA warships are capable of atmosferic flight??
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Probably the hades, i'd say odds are the Aeolus cruiser could as well. The old Valk would probably do well in atmosphere, though thats not a cap-ship. I'd also say the Mentu (the weakest vasudan cruiser) could as well. Any transport and most freighters could probably do in-atmosphere.
Wasn't some Shivan/GTI tech used on many peoples favorite bomber (AKA the Shoebox) (AKA the Brick) (AKA the Flying Moon) (AKA the Ursa)? I seem to remember that they said the Ursa has a ultradense hull.
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Hey does anyone know if any GTVA warships are capable of atmosferic flight??
Nope (as in, no-one knows).
However, if they have sufficient anti-gravity technology......
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question? is someone thinking of doing an HTL version of the hades??? ship still looks kick ass.
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question? is someone thinking of doing an HTL version of the hades??? ship still looks kick ass.
There's the Hera, but that's got many polys and isn't very authentic. But that's all I know of. There's probably one that is in progress that is either abandoned or one I don't know about
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Hey does anyone know if any GTVA warships are capable of atmosferic flight??
Only vasudan cargo contaiiners are stated to be atmospheric in FS1.
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Hey does anyone know if any GTVA warships are capable of atmosferic flight??
Probably, since they're capable of space fight, its a given that they can fight inside a planets atmosphere, given the planet isnt too unstable. (e.g , a planet like Jupiter)
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Well iwa s just thinking about the Hecate since with those fins on it it looks like it could fly through atmostfere and maybe even fight. Or like stated above it they have suficient antigrav tech. Now that would be cool 2 warships ducking it out in the atmosphere!
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Whatever fighters were guarding that Satis in the CB ani when the Lucifer attacks Vasuda Prime.
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IMO all bombers and fighters can perform atmpospheric flight. I know that some fighters/bombers have an airframe that can't produce lift (like the Ursa), but you don't need it if your engines produce a lot of thrust. So, my view is that fighters/bombers have extremely powerful engines that enable atmospheric flight (and also thrusters to change the flight direction that are used also in space). After all, if the Harbinger was designed for "planetary assault" (it's stated in a FS1 comm brief), there is the need for something to carry it (unless it's launched from warships in space and, when it runs out of fuel, it falls like a ballistic bomb :nervous:).
Also, transports should be able to fly in atmosphere. Why? Well... it's the only way to ferry huge numbers of people from the surface to the space... Again, they would fly without producing lift, relying only on huge amounts of thrust.
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How much thrust does a craft operating in a frictionless environment at relatively low speeds need, anyways?
Command briefings describe the Lucifer bombarding Vasuda Prime from orbit - to me that makes it more likely the GTA / PVN (and of course GTVA) would use similar orbital attacks, because otherwise you have to face a whole new wave of AAAf fire to deliver your bombs.
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Probably orbital attacks would be possible only with beams (non-canon references: in Sol: A History and Inferno R1 there are planned orbital attacks, though it's not said anywhere if they are carried out with beams). IMO, in the FS1 era ground attacks had still to be carried out in the "old way", also because warheads launched from orbit could be shoot down with Patriot-like missiles.
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Well if they poses thge capabilaty to induce artificial gravity the they must have the abilaty to produce anti-grav. fields around they ships. At least in my opinion. Also some fighters look really streamline and with those wings on them lokk almost like they were designed to be operated into atmosphere!
As for the planetary bombardmant i agree they must of been done with beams beacause using bombs would be kind of pointless since they would be shot down relatively easy.
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Probably orbital attacks would be possible only with beams (non-canon references: in Sol: A History and Inferno R1 there are planned orbital attacks, though it's not said anywhere if they are carried out with beams). IMO, in the FS1 era ground attacks had still to be carried out in the "old way", also because warheads launched from orbit could be shoot down with Patriot-like missiles.
That depends how fast they're flying, how straight their trajectory is, decoy technology, etc - it's not as if anyones managed to get a working anti-ICBM weapon in modern time, and the offensive technology would be expected to advance at a similar rate to defensive (IMO, anyways). Possible that EMP weapons exist to knock out ground based early warning systems, too. Of course, it could be that lasers are effective in atmosphere.....
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We've seen Horus fighters and Satis Transports / Freighters fly, and we know several Zod containers can be used in the atmosphere as well.
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Well, I seem to remember someone worked out the energy output in the standard laser turrets...something in the low hekatons range?
(10 hekatons=1 kiloton)
So...if you took over the space surrounding a planet after a set-piece battle, your warships would assume orbit and begin firing laser turrets in the way WWII bombers dropped carpet bombs...
Each bomb wasnt powerful enough to do a HUGE amount of devastation (i.e. a whole factory complex) but a ****load would take out the factory complex and most surrounding area. So, the fleet bombarding the planet with (relatively) low output laser batteries for a day or so would devastate population or industrial centers.
Plus, your Fenris and Leviathans have those cute little fusion mortars.
If THAT didnt work (resilient population, bombardment shelters, etc.), simply target planetary defenses, and send in the GTTs loaded with loyal GTA cannon fodder. Plus tanks, space and air craft, vehicles...etc. And have a nice little ground war with the ground-pounders.
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The GTVA doesn't have enough planets to go around destroying them all
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Hey does anyone know if any GTVA warships are capable of atmosferic flight??
Only vasudan cargo contaiiners are stated to be atmospheric in FS1.
What?
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FS1 Tech Room Description
The standard Vasudan cargo container is only slightly different from our own. The primary difference is that the Vasudan cargo containers are atmospheric as well as deep-space. Vasudans used cargo containers well before we did, as they needed to transport raw materials from other systems to their own barren world. Our cargo container was modelled after theirs, although ours is slightly superior in durability.
Source: FS Wiki.
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Maybe the GTVA did build another Hades. You just didn't need to know about it.
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Maybe the GTVA did build another Hades. You just didn't need to know about it.
Hard to see a point, though - it was rather feeble by FS2 standards, at least in terms of (likely) cost-to-power. That's assuming the FS2 version is intended to be representative of a reconstructed Hades, of course. It's very hard to judge.
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Mad Bomber's 66 turret hades wasn't too feeble. Neither was the Hera. But they're non canon (go away, Mars).
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I did a Hades with a load more turrets for that Blitzerland fella but I don't suppose it ever saw the light of day
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How many more? ;7
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Mad Bomber's 66 turret hades wasn't too feeble. Neither was the Hera. But they're non canon (go away, Mars).
Actually I find the Hades ridiculously underpowered by any standard... the subsystems on that ship are among the weakest in the game... while upgraded versions of the Hades are non canon, they are far more believable.
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Am I the only person who thought the Hades should have appered more in Silent Threat?
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Not apeared... but they should have built up to it... instead your just suddenly put up against it.
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For a ship so though, the Hades had really ****ing crappy subsystem armor.
Also, it either needed one or two more beam cannons, or Mjinir esque Beams. Escially on the Broadsides
Hmm <Might use fred when I can actually use it>
And yes, that silent threat mission sucked ass. Honestly, Silent threat needed better missions
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The Hades is not, simply put, feeble at all. The subsystem armor thing gives people a false belief that it's not very good in a fight.
However it is uniquely suited to engaging Shivan targets, because Shivans use direct-fire beams, not slash types, and as such are much less likely to knock its subsystems out. I once pitted a Hades against three Molochs and two Demons, and the Hades came out on top.
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Good point, Mr ngtm1r
Is the Hades in any Muti missions? Aside from the dogfight one?
:confused:
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The Hades is not, simply put, feeble at all. The subsystem armor thing gives people a false belief that it's not very good in a fight.
However it is uniquely suited to engaging Shivan targets, because Shivans use direct-fire beams, not slash types, and as such are much less likely to knock its subsystems out. I once pitted a Hades against three Molochs and two Demons, and the Hades came out on top.
This is most likely because it has so much armor.
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That and the fact that as far as i can remember the hades had shivan tech implemented into its weapons sistems. And had the lucifer class shields?? I,m not sure about this tough! Scratch the shiled stuff shields are useless against beams.
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Lol, with a destroyer that has good firepower and armor with weak ass subsystems pitted against an enemy that uses direct fire beams, hell even versus slasher beams that's a problem. A weak subsystem versus a direct fire beam is just deadly. What do you think most direct fire beams target? Probably the really powerful turrets on other capships, or the meatier and tastier subsystems.
Perhaps a new hades being developed could make a balance on stronger subsystems and less armor. But the hades itself is already extremely unique and even sought after in the community. If integrating shivan technology, it's reasonable to assume gti was looking into reproducing energy shielding for their destroyer. In the least at perhaps they were trying something cool like using energy shields on subsystems in place of hardening subsystems with depleted uranium (force field isolation happens all the time in star trek, i don't see why you couldn't do something like using something as crude as a fighters shield generator around a subsystem). If you did use a shield generator around a subsystem, it'd probably offer no more protection than depleted uranium does since disruptors do cause shield damage (a move like this would replace something clunky and old with some just as usable, bot more efficient...sort of like getting rid of IDE interfaces in favor of new and smaller SATA, in the beginning SATA was no faster than IDE, but it was something that could be improved upon, and as time goes on shielding gets more advanced and more resistant). The final mission of silent threat when you take down the hades was when the hades was being brought online.
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The Hades in the last mission, IMO, was only 50% operational.
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Lol, with a destroyer that has good firepower and armor with weak ass subsystems pitted against an enemy that uses direct fire beams, hell even versus slasher beams that's a problem. A weak subsystem versus a direct fire beam is just deadly. What do you think most direct fire beams target? Probably the really powerful turrets on other capships, or the meatier and tastier subsystems.
Sorry, that ain't how it works. They pick a vertice and let 'er rip. Learn what you're talking about before you start trying to discuss the FSO engine.
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Huh? I've always seen my ships shoot at turrets? Or was it coincidence?
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Well then the AI could do a much nastier job by targetting subsystems.
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I've always seen beams hitting turrets and subsystems as well.
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I've always seen beams hitting turrets and subsystems as well.
Yeah. And it comes from Mars, so :ha:
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I am now maintaining the fact that the Hades might benifit from torpedos mounted in turrets.
I mean, the Hadeses 2 Beam cannons arent all that well er... placed
So, one or two more beam cannons on the broadsides and 1 to 3 Tsunami/Cyclops torpedo launchers would benifit the Hades and the bombers that it launcher, as the capships defenses, possibly the main beams, have to be diverted in a point defense mode, giving the fighters and bombers a chance to slip through.
(as a side note, the main beams of capships CAN shoot down bombs. Lets just say I had a bad experiance in the sixth wonder, thanks to that trick :mad2: :mad2: ****in Hawkwood and Siltilettos IIs)
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Lovely in principle, but think about this.
Adding additional beams requires boosting reactor output. That'd require a complete overhaul of the ship's internals, either to upgrade to a larger reactor or install Vasudan models. (Hey, does the power generation field in ships.tbl have anything to do with beam weapons? Always wondered that.)
You know why torpedoes and missiles aren't used on capital ships? Because said ships are going to be hit by big, angry, shield-and-armor penetrating beams. Do you know what happened to the Hood when a penetrating shell hit her magazines?
I mean, hell, if support ships tend to blow up larger than normal...imagine what a capital ship magazine would do if a beam cored it!
(Makes me wonder if destroyers are ever lost that way.)
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I'm afraid I am not familiar with the Hood, what happened there?
And besides, on the beam issue: I wasn't going to make them destroyer sized. Nah, I was just thinking about using either Terslashes or SGreens
Come to think of that, it probably would suck with the sides. If I were to add more beams to the Hades, I would at the very least TRY to make it mostly credible
Oh, and thanks for the constructive Criticism
EDIT: oh and yes, the beams going through the weapon storage would suck, but wouldent that be a problem with flak too, no?
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I'm afraid I am not familiar with the Hood, what happened there?
The Hood was a WWI-era British warship that was sunk by the German battleship Bismark in WWII. The Bismark blew open the Hood's magazines (where everything on a ship that goes boom is stored), and subsequently made it go boom.
Similar situation with the Arizona.
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Flak won't explode like a magazine full of bombs would.
Bombs are, according to tech room descriptions, thermonuclear-yield weapons.
Flak appear to be advanced conventional explosives that disperse high-velocity shrapnel, highly effective in space combat.
A flak magazine detonation could be contained. A bank of torpedoes? Eeeeek.
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Fury missiles have a yeild of 3 Kilotons of TNT... I imagine flak is higher than that
Granted, torpedoes have yeilds well into the gigaton range.
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I imagine that most of a flak projectile's yield is devoted to fragmentation rather than blast.
This isn't to say the flak magazines won't detonate. Capital ships do, after all, explode very spectacularly, and the blasts clearly don't originate from just one place (the reactor or engines.)
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Destroyers must have a place where to store fighter and bomber weapons. The risk of a Hood-like ending is always present.
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Huh? I've always seen my ships shoot at turrets? Or was it coincidence?
Turrets happen to have lots of vertices. :p That said I rarely if ever see any but a large multipart turret take a direct hit. Since those happen to be the most noticible...
Bombs perversely enough tend to remove turrets more often because of the shockwave. I've seen the Hecate's upper turrets disappear due to bomb shockwaves far too many times.